Old 05-02-2003, 01:55 PM
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I just hung up with Beav! What a quackfest that was. He is under the mistaken illusion that we will hire a lawyer for him. When he is done serving this 90 days he will be transfered to our county to go before a judge here for violation of probation. He doesn't want to go to prison. I don't want that either...obviously. But I don't intend to hire a lawyer. I have written some letters to a judge and the drug programs and I will write some more but that is all I will do. I will plead his case to anyone who will listen...he is an alcoholic who just might be on his knees (not the way he sounded today but...) and his interests or his son's interests are not best served by prison.

I wrote a quick note after he hung up on ME (collect). I said somthing that I am afraid might be heartless. Opinions??

Beavettes mother died of a heroin overdose while partying with her boyfriend. This boyfriend is an addict who had been bailed out many times and had the best lawyers compliments of his father. I told the Beav in my note that had it not been for that father, Beavettes mother could still be alive. And I won't do that.

I have a way of spitting words out...was that too mean? The only difference is the DOC. The Beav could kill someone too.

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Old 05-02-2003, 01:59 PM
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...and the coolest thing is that feeling of standing in a crowd while I was talking to him! You all were there with me!!

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Old 05-02-2003, 02:15 PM
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And you KNOW we were there, JT, fighting for our place in line just to hold you up and to toss you a jujube.

Okay, straight goods here (said with love)....about him - he is paying the consequences for HIS actions. He is clean and trying to work a program in jail, which is a good thing, thus making jail a good place right now. He KNOWS your views on posting bail, paying for lawyers or taking responsibility fo his actions. He is just having a bad day coping with his situation.

About you - you know the answer, it's just that he has caused so much steam that it is difficult to see. You have done everything possible to try to get this tried in drug court or to have rehab as part of the sentence. The final decision on that is out of your hands and in the hands of the court (and God). Would hiring a good lawyer be constructive? Or would the good lawyer just get him released early?

And finally - you know that I love the Beav....but if he ever hangs up on you again I am personally going down there with my cleated bunny slipper and have a chat with him.

I guess we all have bad days, and it's too bad that when THEY have a bad day, they just feel compelled to share it in a very personal way!!!

Hugs to you JT, and a nice cuppa Java to sip while the air clears.
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Old 05-02-2003, 02:15 PM
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It is what it is!!!
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JT -

No I don't think it is too harsh, that is the truth and that is what could happen.

Consequences for actions, so darn important. (said lovingly from one quacker to another, meaning the Beav).
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Old 05-02-2003, 03:01 PM
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I love all you guys!! Hanging up hardly hurt my was MY dime!! LOL!

Do you know what the REALLY sick part of all this is?? It occured to me after he hung up.

He could end up in the same prison as that boyfriend. I think I may add that to the next series of letters. OMG! The two men in daughter-in-laws life are in jail together staring at each other across the...uh... what is it called?? Lunch room? Mess hall? Cafeteria?? Not good. Not good at all!

While we were on the phone the Beav said "If I have to go to prison I will kill myself!" Then he said.."Oh #$%& they are listening! I know I won't kill myself I am just mad"

Believe me I know where I stand...I just don't want my words to kick him while is down.

Huhs (I mean hugs), Typo??

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Old 05-02-2003, 03:07 PM
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I'm coming with Ann

If he ever hangs up on you again. I don't have the lethal cleated bunny slipper, but I think his butt and my foot would get along famously.
We are always with you in spirit JT, glad you can feel the good karma.
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Old 05-02-2003, 06:44 PM
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Actually I think what you said was clever. It's very hard for an addict whose trying to avoid consequences, understand that it is exactly what you want him to experience. On top of that it's hard to understand why your mother or anyone else would want you to experience those consequences. I think it's harsh to just not pay for a lawyer and not explain your reasoning. (not to us, but to him maybe) Your explanation was a very good example of what happens when someone bails you out all the time.

My feeling is the hang up was percipitated by his really hearing your message. You used an example that relates directly to him. I know when my mom has a good reason for doing something, I can't argue with it and it makes me mad. If there was no logic to it, I would continue to fight for my cause.
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Old 05-02-2003, 07:07 PM
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JT - no, not heartless at all in my opinion. Just the hard, cold, sad facts.

I know how much you love your son and I can only imagine how much it hurts to see your grandson suffer, but if a kick while the Beav is down is what it finally takes to get the message through to him, well....

And nothing gets my blood pressure rocketing quite like being hung up on I HATE that!

Love and hugs.
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Old 05-02-2003, 09:52 PM
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Hanging up is just a "Quack You"

Asking for a lawyer is a "Poor (Quack) me"

I've never bailed my son out and never paid for a lawyer just for the simple fact that I had no money to do so. He had the same fair hearing as anyone else. He always got out and always got by with it. He has been in and out of jail 4 times.

He never asked for help because he knew I didn't have the money to help him. Most change comes from suffering. Even ours does. There is no one to give us a lawyer to get us out of this mess. We are stuck here until we change and work on our recovery.

My son always uses "Quack, I'll kill myself" That's always the last quacking resort. I just call the police and tell them he is threatening suicide. I think if that happened to me with my son in jail I would call the jail and have him put on suicide watch. He would probably think twice about using that one again.

I have a wonderful friend who found recovery because he ended up in prison. It took that experience to show him how bad it had become. He has been clean and sober ever since.

We want them to know we care and that's why we are not helping, but I don't think they are at the point that they can understand that. You just have to know it's true even though he can't see it right now.

Old 05-03-2003, 12:06 AM
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I found this link and even though it's for raising children, there is some information we can all apply to our situations.
Old 05-03-2003, 04:39 AM
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After thinking about it and recieving a letter from him in the mail the same is getting old sitting there and reality is setting in. He can do the 60 he has left but the thought of more has him running scared. I will send my note to him. I tried to explain on the phone but he wasn't hearing me.

I will do what I can to encourage rehab to the authorities because in my heart I think that is what he needs. But I will not get between him and his consequences.

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Old 05-03-2003, 06:17 AM
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I think you are doing well handling this. What you said was just harsh reality, and sometimes that has to be faced, whether we like it or not.


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Old 05-03-2003, 07:31 AM
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It is all about consequences

Hi Everybody

I have to agree with with Morning Glory on this also

The quacking about killing himself can be scary but it is usually an attempt to control and manipulate the hearer. .scare you into a major rescue.

Just sit tight and like Anns says it really is out of your hands. If you have done the letter writing and given the authorities your input . .that is enough

I think jail/prison is an ideal place for an addict who needs to suffer the consequences of THEIR actions but you guys knew that already.

My daughter is completing 8 months clean time after experiencing some pretty hefty legal consequences. She has a job and after completing the program will be on probation for a few more months. It is truly in her lap so to speak and she tells me staying clean is a one day at a time decision.

Remember it is about consequences. If an addict does not suffer from his action there is no motivation to change. It took me a long time to embrace that and today I have absolutely no problem with it.

I always think of that analogy of the band-aid. When we keep ripping the bandaid off the wound (by our attempts to help and control) we interrupt the healing process. Prison, fines, homelessness, hunger, desperation, loneliness . .those are the scabs that need to form for healing. .All that pain and desperation will either motivate a change or the addict will have to go back out using to have more heaped on. .

When we don't help and interfere the addiction may run its course quicker. .no guarantees. .but the odds of that happening are alot better than all the misquided "helping" to kill the addict.

So sending blessing to all and let's keep the faith! Mo
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Old 05-03-2003, 07:42 AM
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When my counselor was referring me to someone one time she said "You may not like what you hear but she will tell you the truth and that is worth alot isn't it?"

I adore that facet of you, that you call it as you see it upfront and direct. I think that is a very good quality. Even if what we are seeing isn't good.

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Old 05-03-2003, 10:39 AM
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They really don't hear or understand, not
until they are ready anyway.
I like what you said Mo, those are
the cold hard facts.
I think the letter writing to the authorities
is all you should do. I have saved my son twice with lawyers, 2 strikes each time. One was in 96, and I was just thinking he probably
would be getting out right about now. I'm
second guessing, but if I had just left it
alone it would have saved alot of heartache.
If Beav is unhappy with his public defender,
he has the right to fire him and get another

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Old 05-03-2003, 11:28 AM
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JT and MO,

We are all learning from you right now. Your strength and courage deserve an award.

I love you both and thank you both.


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