Denial, dishonesty, relapse... OH MY!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Anchorage, AK
Posts: 1
Denial, dishonesty, relapse... OH MY!
Hello all,
I am new to this site... although I wish I had started my research long ago, you know what they say, "Hindsight is 20/20."
Thank you for all of the wonderful information that you all have offered to me. I feel the need to tell my story, maybe just to get it out there... get my thought out on paper (or a screen ). It is a long post though.
Anyways, I have been in a relationship (am engaged to be married in May) with a man who is an alchoholic. He has a failed marriage and lots of problems in his past due to his drinking. He has and stopped drinking for at least three years... however I know that he has been on an electronic monitering device the read his BAC constantly for most of this time (actually the entire time since he got out of treatment.)
This man is a self admitted alcoholic. He has said, "I know that I can't drink... even just a little because that's what leads to a lot. I know I'm an alcoholic and I always will be." (this was several months ago)
Anyways, he's been off of the moniter for just over a month. Since he has had the moniter removed from his ankle I have smelled alcohol on his breath several times, he has been "working late", actually passed out with his head in his hand on the couch and would not wake up.
EVERY TIME I confront him he tells me that he doesn't know WHY he'd smell like booze... ya know, that kind of stuff... dishonest and denial crap.
Today is (or yesterday was I suppose it is 1:00am here) Easter Sunday. We were at my families house for Easter dinner. He arrived here before I did. He and our daughter got here and he immediately disappeared into the garage for about 15 minutes. That's where my parents keep the booze (although not heavy drinkers, the recently returned from mexico with LOTS of tequilla). I wasn't here, but my mom noticed and really thought nothing of it (since he smokes in there).
When I arrived we all had fun and things were good. I walked by him a smelled that horrid liquor smell, I knew it and COULDN'T BELIEVE THAT HE HAD BEEN DRINKING! I really couldn't, so I asked him to come into the other room with me and I smelled his breath. It was on his breath, heavy. He always tells me I'm nuts when I say this, so I asked my mother (whom he's close with) to come into the room.
She asked what was going on and he stated, "She thinks I smell like booze." and blew on her. She said, "Sorry Dude(no name for the 2A of the AA) it does." I really didn't want to get her involved, but I needed a second opinion. She is my confidante and has been with Al-Anon and AA before.
That was that. Things went on. Later I was in the hot tub and he had just gotten out. He told my mom he needed a long walk and left.
My mom talked to me and talked about the disease... I truly have no knowledge of alcoholism.
When I got home he wasn't there (not like him). I called him (after 10pm) and he said that he had just finished golfing with his friend (10pm on easter sunday????) and was walking home. Still saying he hadn't been drinking. His lies aren't even well thought out, he isn't thinking straight.
I said to him that I love him and that I don't know how to fix this, if he or WE need to go to meetings or what, Honesty is important and that I do love him.
I told him I'd pick him up (he was at least 3 miles from home) and he said no. He was acting strange and being very elusive about where he was. He just kept saying he was, "nearby."
I went to pick him up, it was cold and rainy. I drove down the street he said he was on and he wasn't on it. I called him and he said he was walking on the street. I told him I was driving back towards home (straight down this street) and had him assure me that he was on the street, and he again said that he was. I drove back and he wasn't there.
I turned around, called my parents and asked if my daughter and I could stay there. Of course they welcomed us with open arms. I didn't want to be there when he got home, drunk, and listen to his lies. I would get angry, and I have anger problems that I have pretty well under wraps but lying to me is one thing you can do to really tick me off.
I got here and looked up AA and Al-Anon and found meetings, and did some research on the disease. Went home to pick up some things (I knew he wouldn't be there.), and came back.
I called and left a message for him saying that I loved him and that he needs to remember the first step. I can't help him if he can't help himself and that there were at least twenty AA meetings in our city tomorrow for him to go to and that I would be attending an Al-Anon tomorrow.
He called back 3 minutes later (hadn't listened to the message) and I asked him to listen to it. There seems to be a trend tonight of him not answering, and then calling back in just about enough time to have gotten out of a noisy bar.
I didn't hear back from him, but he called my mom and asked if my daughter was here and if she was OK because he was worried. My mom said, yep and she(myself) is here too. She asked him if he was OK and he said yeah, he's fine. She said we're worried and we all care, and he said he wan't drinking...
HE'S STILL DENYING IT AFTER ALL THE LIES HE'S BEEN CAUGHT IN IN JUST THIS 1 NIGHT! I don't get it.
I really don't, that's the reason I will attend the al-anon meeting(s).
I haven't talked to him and am so confused, worried and all of that stuff right now. IF any of you have made it through this entire post (you are amazing) and you have any advice or input for me please let me know.
Thank you and I am glad I found this forum.
I am new to this site... although I wish I had started my research long ago, you know what they say, "Hindsight is 20/20."
Thank you for all of the wonderful information that you all have offered to me. I feel the need to tell my story, maybe just to get it out there... get my thought out on paper (or a screen ). It is a long post though.
Anyways, I have been in a relationship (am engaged to be married in May) with a man who is an alchoholic. He has a failed marriage and lots of problems in his past due to his drinking. He has and stopped drinking for at least three years... however I know that he has been on an electronic monitering device the read his BAC constantly for most of this time (actually the entire time since he got out of treatment.)
This man is a self admitted alcoholic. He has said, "I know that I can't drink... even just a little because that's what leads to a lot. I know I'm an alcoholic and I always will be." (this was several months ago)
Anyways, he's been off of the moniter for just over a month. Since he has had the moniter removed from his ankle I have smelled alcohol on his breath several times, he has been "working late", actually passed out with his head in his hand on the couch and would not wake up.
EVERY TIME I confront him he tells me that he doesn't know WHY he'd smell like booze... ya know, that kind of stuff... dishonest and denial crap.
Today is (or yesterday was I suppose it is 1:00am here) Easter Sunday. We were at my families house for Easter dinner. He arrived here before I did. He and our daughter got here and he immediately disappeared into the garage for about 15 minutes. That's where my parents keep the booze (although not heavy drinkers, the recently returned from mexico with LOTS of tequilla). I wasn't here, but my mom noticed and really thought nothing of it (since he smokes in there).
When I arrived we all had fun and things were good. I walked by him a smelled that horrid liquor smell, I knew it and COULDN'T BELIEVE THAT HE HAD BEEN DRINKING! I really couldn't, so I asked him to come into the other room with me and I smelled his breath. It was on his breath, heavy. He always tells me I'm nuts when I say this, so I asked my mother (whom he's close with) to come into the room.
She asked what was going on and he stated, "She thinks I smell like booze." and blew on her. She said, "Sorry Dude(no name for the 2A of the AA) it does." I really didn't want to get her involved, but I needed a second opinion. She is my confidante and has been with Al-Anon and AA before.
That was that. Things went on. Later I was in the hot tub and he had just gotten out. He told my mom he needed a long walk and left.
My mom talked to me and talked about the disease... I truly have no knowledge of alcoholism.
When I got home he wasn't there (not like him). I called him (after 10pm) and he said that he had just finished golfing with his friend (10pm on easter sunday????) and was walking home. Still saying he hadn't been drinking. His lies aren't even well thought out, he isn't thinking straight.
I said to him that I love him and that I don't know how to fix this, if he or WE need to go to meetings or what, Honesty is important and that I do love him.
I told him I'd pick him up (he was at least 3 miles from home) and he said no. He was acting strange and being very elusive about where he was. He just kept saying he was, "nearby."
I went to pick him up, it was cold and rainy. I drove down the street he said he was on and he wasn't on it. I called him and he said he was walking on the street. I told him I was driving back towards home (straight down this street) and had him assure me that he was on the street, and he again said that he was. I drove back and he wasn't there.
I turned around, called my parents and asked if my daughter and I could stay there. Of course they welcomed us with open arms. I didn't want to be there when he got home, drunk, and listen to his lies. I would get angry, and I have anger problems that I have pretty well under wraps but lying to me is one thing you can do to really tick me off.
I got here and looked up AA and Al-Anon and found meetings, and did some research on the disease. Went home to pick up some things (I knew he wouldn't be there.), and came back.
I called and left a message for him saying that I loved him and that he needs to remember the first step. I can't help him if he can't help himself and that there were at least twenty AA meetings in our city tomorrow for him to go to and that I would be attending an Al-Anon tomorrow.
He called back 3 minutes later (hadn't listened to the message) and I asked him to listen to it. There seems to be a trend tonight of him not answering, and then calling back in just about enough time to have gotten out of a noisy bar.
I didn't hear back from him, but he called my mom and asked if my daughter was here and if she was OK because he was worried. My mom said, yep and she(myself) is here too. She asked him if he was OK and he said yeah, he's fine. She said we're worried and we all care, and he said he wan't drinking...
HE'S STILL DENYING IT AFTER ALL THE LIES HE'S BEEN CAUGHT IN IN JUST THIS 1 NIGHT! I don't get it.
I really don't, that's the reason I will attend the al-anon meeting(s).
I haven't talked to him and am so confused, worried and all of that stuff right now. IF any of you have made it through this entire post (you are amazing) and you have any advice or input for me please let me know.
Thank you and I am glad I found this forum.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,358
Welcome to SR Diem Perdidi.
Active alcoholics lie. It's what they must do in order to enable their own drinking. There's just no way around that.
It was so hard for me not to taking the lying personally. I used to think..."how could I NOT take it personally...we're in a relationship and living together, we love each other, of course it's personal"!!! It was in hindsight I learned that, like his drinking, my ex's lying to me really had nothing to do with me. Hard, hard, hard, so very hard for me to wrap my brain and emotions around that. Especially hard for a person like me who would rather be hurt by the truth than to be lied to.
It was also hard for me to realize I was expecting healthy, logical interactions from an EXTREMELY unhealthy man. Therefore, MY expecations were unrealistic... and a symptom of my own unhealthy thought process. I turned myself into a pretzel "trying to get him to see how much he was hurting me" and to, dare I say..."Change"?!?! But I was focusing on changing the wrong person....I was trying to change him (an impossible task)...had no clue that "I" was the one that "I" needed to change...(and I was the only one that I could change). Reality...what a concept. LOL!
You know what he's doing and isn't that the most important thing? You know he's drinking...you know he's sneaking out of the bar so you won't hear the noise when he calls you back. You know what's going on. You can't change what he's doing, but you can learn to accept what he's doing by not looking for honesty from him. Jut like you have no power over his alcoholism, you have no power over his lying either.
But, you can begin to learn to do what's best for you. Alanon is a good way to begin to sort through just that. It will help you to learn to not focus on his 'breath' or his actions, but rather 'your' thoughts, expectations, needs, and 'your' actions. I know that sounds a little cold...but that's really what it boils down to.
Read the posts here and the stickies at the top of the forum. Lots of people have shared their stories and what has and hasn't worked for them.
Good luck and keep coming back. SR is a great place!!
Active alcoholics lie. It's what they must do in order to enable their own drinking. There's just no way around that.
It was so hard for me not to taking the lying personally. I used to think..."how could I NOT take it personally...we're in a relationship and living together, we love each other, of course it's personal"!!! It was in hindsight I learned that, like his drinking, my ex's lying to me really had nothing to do with me. Hard, hard, hard, so very hard for me to wrap my brain and emotions around that. Especially hard for a person like me who would rather be hurt by the truth than to be lied to.
It was also hard for me to realize I was expecting healthy, logical interactions from an EXTREMELY unhealthy man. Therefore, MY expecations were unrealistic... and a symptom of my own unhealthy thought process. I turned myself into a pretzel "trying to get him to see how much he was hurting me" and to, dare I say..."Change"?!?! But I was focusing on changing the wrong person....I was trying to change him (an impossible task)...had no clue that "I" was the one that "I" needed to change...(and I was the only one that I could change). Reality...what a concept. LOL!
You know what he's doing and isn't that the most important thing? You know he's drinking...you know he's sneaking out of the bar so you won't hear the noise when he calls you back. You know what's going on. You can't change what he's doing, but you can learn to accept what he's doing by not looking for honesty from him. Jut like you have no power over his alcoholism, you have no power over his lying either.
But, you can begin to learn to do what's best for you. Alanon is a good way to begin to sort through just that. It will help you to learn to not focus on his 'breath' or his actions, but rather 'your' thoughts, expectations, needs, and 'your' actions. I know that sounds a little cold...but that's really what it boils down to.
Read the posts here and the stickies at the top of the forum. Lots of people have shared their stories and what has and hasn't worked for them.
Good luck and keep coming back. SR is a great place!!
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 240
Active alcoholics lie. Period. Don't try to make sense of it. Trust me, I have been doing this for the past 10 years with my AH with absolutely no luck. They can be slurring, swaying and falling down drunk and they'll still swear they haven't been drinking. I always tease (shame on me - insert evil grin) my AH that he's the miracle self-admitted alcoholic that never actually drinks!
Your post reminds me so much of myself. Questioning, smelling his breath, driving around looking for him...MY AH also plays the game of "I'm right around the corner on such-and-such street" - I drive there and he's nowhere to be found. Then, "NOW I'm on blah-blah street" - Again there I go, the faithful taxi cab driver, and again, he's no where to be found. In the 10 years I have been with my husband, do you know where this has gotten me? Absolutely nowhere - Just driving in his circles. It has made me 100% crazy. I'm sure you'll get a lot of suggestions to go to Al-Anon, and this is why. HIS disease will drive you crazy, if you let it.
I was sure that things would change when my husband and I married, and just as the literature warns, his disease progressed when left untreated. Living with an active alcoholic is a hard life that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. Take care of yourself and your daughter.
Your post reminds me so much of myself. Questioning, smelling his breath, driving around looking for him...MY AH also plays the game of "I'm right around the corner on such-and-such street" - I drive there and he's nowhere to be found. Then, "NOW I'm on blah-blah street" - Again there I go, the faithful taxi cab driver, and again, he's no where to be found. In the 10 years I have been with my husband, do you know where this has gotten me? Absolutely nowhere - Just driving in his circles. It has made me 100% crazy. I'm sure you'll get a lot of suggestions to go to Al-Anon, and this is why. HIS disease will drive you crazy, if you let it.
I was sure that things would change when my husband and I married, and just as the literature warns, his disease progressed when left untreated. Living with an active alcoholic is a hard life that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. Take care of yourself and your daughter.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,622
Hey Diem,
I am so sorry for your pain. It must have been horrible.
There is some good advice here.
Your family sounds supportive and you all seem to have your eyes fully open to his deceptions so the only one he has left to fool is himself.
The ringing back three minutes later is classic. My ex ab/f did it daily. I've seen other people do it to their partners. Check phone, but they don't answer. Take a gulp. Stand up and go outside to ring back. I hear them saying they are on their way home. Others answer and just shout over the noise and go outside openly admitting where they are. The ring back ones are ashamed. That shame says everything.
Getting married is not a healthy thing to do. I mean that for him as well. I have the utmost respect and love for the honesty I find in recovering alcoholics but it sounds like he is not ready to take this important step with you. He is relapsing. I think that this is not a simple slip. He has been hiding it from you since he took his ankle thing off. Is he attending meetings? Did he stop around the same time?
I also wouldn't wish such a life on my worst enemy and you and your family don't deserve to be disrespected in this way.
Keep reading. Don't forget to read about the wee children who wait for hours for their a parent who doesn't show up and .....
Run. Run and don't look back. Love is not the issue. I wish I had had that advice and followed it 6 years ago.
I have to go and read this back to myself now and take my own advice. Sigh.
Hugs.
I am so sorry for your pain. It must have been horrible.
There is some good advice here.
Your family sounds supportive and you all seem to have your eyes fully open to his deceptions so the only one he has left to fool is himself.
The ringing back three minutes later is classic. My ex ab/f did it daily. I've seen other people do it to their partners. Check phone, but they don't answer. Take a gulp. Stand up and go outside to ring back. I hear them saying they are on their way home. Others answer and just shout over the noise and go outside openly admitting where they are. The ring back ones are ashamed. That shame says everything.
Getting married is not a healthy thing to do. I mean that for him as well. I have the utmost respect and love for the honesty I find in recovering alcoholics but it sounds like he is not ready to take this important step with you. He is relapsing. I think that this is not a simple slip. He has been hiding it from you since he took his ankle thing off. Is he attending meetings? Did he stop around the same time?
I also wouldn't wish such a life on my worst enemy and you and your family don't deserve to be disrespected in this way.
Keep reading. Don't forget to read about the wee children who wait for hours for their a parent who doesn't show up and .....
Run. Run and don't look back. Love is not the issue. I wish I had had that advice and followed it 6 years ago.
I have to go and read this back to myself now and take my own advice. Sigh.
Hugs.
I Finally Love My Life!!!
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 648
Been there - Done that. I'm so sorry you're there now.
Lies, dishonesty...what's more, they blame YOU. They always find a way to blame you. Be it using words like "Incompatible" after you get angry at their unbelievable behaviour, to using your gut instincts which are right on to make you out to be a bad guy for "not trusting" them, when he's the untrustworthy one.
I can't speak for your A, but mine just doesn't have the emotional intelligence to really comprehend the damage of what his lies and dishonesty did to me. I am still trying to let it go - but that's my story and we're talking about you now.
Expect "I'm sorry" to roll out of him like a bursting dam when he can't escape the lies and you won't put up with the behaviour...sincere as it may be, let his actions speak for him and his words remain silent in your mind.
I am so sorry you are where you are...I wish I could say some magical phrase that would make it all better. But, if that were the case, I wouldn't be posting
Lies, dishonesty...what's more, they blame YOU. They always find a way to blame you. Be it using words like "Incompatible" after you get angry at their unbelievable behaviour, to using your gut instincts which are right on to make you out to be a bad guy for "not trusting" them, when he's the untrustworthy one.
I can't speak for your A, but mine just doesn't have the emotional intelligence to really comprehend the damage of what his lies and dishonesty did to me. I am still trying to let it go - but that's my story and we're talking about you now.
Expect "I'm sorry" to roll out of him like a bursting dam when he can't escape the lies and you won't put up with the behaviour...sincere as it may be, let his actions speak for him and his words remain silent in your mind.
I am so sorry you are where you are...I wish I could say some magical phrase that would make it all better. But, if that were the case, I wouldn't be posting
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: oh
Posts: 757
hi diem
hon, this post really hits home with me because my wedding anniversary is may 17th to an AH. i was you a "not so short" 4 years ago.
first, i have been with my AH for 7 years (three years before i married him). i could see all the warning signs. i knew he was an alcoholic. before i married him i was still thinking that my love for him would conquer all and that it would be enough to battle this disease. you will soon learn through education and experience, that it is not. unfortunately. could you have told me that even 4 years ago, no.
three days before my wedding. he was drunk. we were both stressed about wedding plans and i as sweet as i could asked him a innocent question about the wedding and BAM he exploded. i was hysterical. he was hysterical. one thing led to another and before i knew it he had me by the arms restraining me with me BEGGING him to let me go. he was going to leave bruises on my arms to be seen by everyone with my beautiful strapless wedding dress. well, the bruises were huge and everything was ordered for the wedding. we were both remorseful and cried a lot. i felt trapped. i did not know or have the strength to back out of a wedding that the flowers were already at the florist, everything was paid for, and my family and friends had done so much...i felt completely trapped.
what was supposed to be the happiest time in my life -turned out to be the most humiliating and embarrassing. the whole day was spent explaining and lying about the bruises on my arm. wedding pictures had to be altered to not see the bruises (you still could see them).
so, then your married and it is a whole new thing-because you are married and you feel a commitment and a sense of not wanting to fail and wanting to make it work out, and an obligation to the other person.
of course, if i could go back i would have done soo many things differently. i have learned by many many hardships over the years. my AH and i have grown together and still do. you would think that that one incident (out of many) would have been enough to stop him from drinking. it was not. he has just gotten out of outpatient rehab a few months ago and is still binging and struggling. i want children very badly, but have realized that this is not something that can happen with this man right now, possibly never. i have been forced to put that dream on hold and am 34 years old, so time is a issue for me.
i think if i could give you advice knowing what i know now. i would tell you if you truly love this man, which it is obvious you do, that you have more power to change things now than you will after you are married. i would tell you to put a stop to the wedding before it goes any farther and set your boundaries now. believe me, the farther they know they can go with you the farther they will go. YOU TEACH THEM WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU! if you do not do this now, eventually they will have no respect for you. right now i feel that me leaving might be the only hope i have in helping AH to change himself. i don't know if he has a reason to change with me still here as his security blanket. imagine, thinking the most love you could show someone would be to leave them to battle themselves. it is the hardest compassion to show. the more you stay in an unhealthy situation the more unhealthy you will become and the harder it will be on you to be strong and then you are not in a position to help anyone.
my heart goes out to you. i could say so much more. pm me if you need to talk.
first, i have been with my AH for 7 years (three years before i married him). i could see all the warning signs. i knew he was an alcoholic. before i married him i was still thinking that my love for him would conquer all and that it would be enough to battle this disease. you will soon learn through education and experience, that it is not. unfortunately. could you have told me that even 4 years ago, no.
three days before my wedding. he was drunk. we were both stressed about wedding plans and i as sweet as i could asked him a innocent question about the wedding and BAM he exploded. i was hysterical. he was hysterical. one thing led to another and before i knew it he had me by the arms restraining me with me BEGGING him to let me go. he was going to leave bruises on my arms to be seen by everyone with my beautiful strapless wedding dress. well, the bruises were huge and everything was ordered for the wedding. we were both remorseful and cried a lot. i felt trapped. i did not know or have the strength to back out of a wedding that the flowers were already at the florist, everything was paid for, and my family and friends had done so much...i felt completely trapped.
what was supposed to be the happiest time in my life -turned out to be the most humiliating and embarrassing. the whole day was spent explaining and lying about the bruises on my arm. wedding pictures had to be altered to not see the bruises (you still could see them).
so, then your married and it is a whole new thing-because you are married and you feel a commitment and a sense of not wanting to fail and wanting to make it work out, and an obligation to the other person.
of course, if i could go back i would have done soo many things differently. i have learned by many many hardships over the years. my AH and i have grown together and still do. you would think that that one incident (out of many) would have been enough to stop him from drinking. it was not. he has just gotten out of outpatient rehab a few months ago and is still binging and struggling. i want children very badly, but have realized that this is not something that can happen with this man right now, possibly never. i have been forced to put that dream on hold and am 34 years old, so time is a issue for me.
i think if i could give you advice knowing what i know now. i would tell you if you truly love this man, which it is obvious you do, that you have more power to change things now than you will after you are married. i would tell you to put a stop to the wedding before it goes any farther and set your boundaries now. believe me, the farther they know they can go with you the farther they will go. YOU TEACH THEM WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU! if you do not do this now, eventually they will have no respect for you. right now i feel that me leaving might be the only hope i have in helping AH to change himself. i don't know if he has a reason to change with me still here as his security blanket. imagine, thinking the most love you could show someone would be to leave them to battle themselves. it is the hardest compassion to show. the more you stay in an unhealthy situation the more unhealthy you will become and the harder it will be on you to be strong and then you are not in a position to help anyone.
my heart goes out to you. i could say so much more. pm me if you need to talk.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: state of confusion
Posts: 351
Welcome diem perdidi
I have spent many, many miserable years playing the mind games you just described. A roller coaster ride of torture ..a few good days and promises... followed by many bad days with mood swings and deception... and it is no way to live. It consumes your thoughts and life. My Ahusband would have a funny smell on his breath, his eyes would be glazed over, and his speech would be slurred ... and he would always deny drinking. The only time he would stop the mind games is if I actually caught him with the booze ... and even then if I found it in his car, he would have the nerve to tell me he had no idea where it came from... "must be old stuff"! It is degrading and demeaning to have someone you care about ..constantly deceiving you when it is obvious they are lying. It took my husband many years to admit he was an alcoholic ... and even when he did, he could never achieve long term sobriety and eventually died from its effect.
There are many variables when dealing with alcoholism... however, it is an unpleasant fact that the relapse rate is very, very high. Knowing what I know now, I would never get involved with an alcoholic until they had achieved long term sobriety of at least one year... and even at that I am not sure it would be worth the constant worry and wondering that goes along with it as to whether they will relapse again, especially with someone that has already relapsed after treatment and has shown a strong tendency to lie when there was so much evidence that they have been drinking. I lost many years that could have been productive and happy that were instead consumed with deception, bizarre behavior, mind games and faced an unpredicatable future. I stayed as long as I did for several reasons ... my husband was not an alcoholic when I married him, if he had been an alcoholic, there would have been no marriage ... his addiction evolved slowly and it took many years to discover the depth of his problem ... we shared a business together that made divorcing difficult and probably would have destroyed our business ... and we eventually had children and a home together, that further complicates separating. Once you have children together, you will be forced to have an ongoing relationship with this person divorced or not... and the alcoholic could possibly have partial custody, which is a terrifying thought as to all the potential damage this could inflict on any of your children.
This is a destructive disease that consumes the alcoholic and those around them ... and it most cases it is progressive as time goes on getting worse and worse. An active alcoholic is not someone that behaves in a rational or sane manner and if you marry now you will marry the addiction, not the real person you think you are. The addiction will always be number one unless there is a long term recovery. There is a wealth of information in this forum that will help you make the decisions you need to make ... keep reading and coming back.
I have spent many, many miserable years playing the mind games you just described. A roller coaster ride of torture ..a few good days and promises... followed by many bad days with mood swings and deception... and it is no way to live. It consumes your thoughts and life. My Ahusband would have a funny smell on his breath, his eyes would be glazed over, and his speech would be slurred ... and he would always deny drinking. The only time he would stop the mind games is if I actually caught him with the booze ... and even then if I found it in his car, he would have the nerve to tell me he had no idea where it came from... "must be old stuff"! It is degrading and demeaning to have someone you care about ..constantly deceiving you when it is obvious they are lying. It took my husband many years to admit he was an alcoholic ... and even when he did, he could never achieve long term sobriety and eventually died from its effect.
There are many variables when dealing with alcoholism... however, it is an unpleasant fact that the relapse rate is very, very high. Knowing what I know now, I would never get involved with an alcoholic until they had achieved long term sobriety of at least one year... and even at that I am not sure it would be worth the constant worry and wondering that goes along with it as to whether they will relapse again, especially with someone that has already relapsed after treatment and has shown a strong tendency to lie when there was so much evidence that they have been drinking. I lost many years that could have been productive and happy that were instead consumed with deception, bizarre behavior, mind games and faced an unpredicatable future. I stayed as long as I did for several reasons ... my husband was not an alcoholic when I married him, if he had been an alcoholic, there would have been no marriage ... his addiction evolved slowly and it took many years to discover the depth of his problem ... we shared a business together that made divorcing difficult and probably would have destroyed our business ... and we eventually had children and a home together, that further complicates separating. Once you have children together, you will be forced to have an ongoing relationship with this person divorced or not... and the alcoholic could possibly have partial custody, which is a terrifying thought as to all the potential damage this could inflict on any of your children.
This is a destructive disease that consumes the alcoholic and those around them ... and it most cases it is progressive as time goes on getting worse and worse. An active alcoholic is not someone that behaves in a rational or sane manner and if you marry now you will marry the addiction, not the real person you think you are. The addiction will always be number one unless there is a long term recovery. There is a wealth of information in this forum that will help you make the decisions you need to make ... keep reading and coming back.
Becoming a Butterfly
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 904
Diem perdidi, you are soooooooooo suspicious. My friends and I often get together for a little impromptu night golfing late on a holiday eve. Sheesh! ;P
You know exactly what's going on here, even if he can't face your knowledge. You and you daughter need this drama like you need a hole in the head. He's a grown man and if he can't control himself, you sure can't control him.
Keep posting. Keep thinking.
You know exactly what's going on here, even if he can't face your knowledge. You and you daughter need this drama like you need a hole in the head. He's a grown man and if he can't control himself, you sure can't control him.
Keep posting. Keep thinking.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 792
diem, you could always postpone the wedding and give him time to get some sobriety under his belt. if you love him enough to marry him, i'd take a step back, let him become sober for himself, and i think a year or two down the road, you'd realize how much better your marriage would be. this is the perfect time to step back, to make him realize what he needs to do to stay alive and to start a family with you. is this really the kind of marriage you want? is this the environment you want your daughter to grow up in?
you deserve better. maybe that'll be him in a year, maybe it'll be someone else, but you will find better than an active alcoholic. the lying will get out of control and the feeling in your gut like you can't even trust the person you love more than anything will tear you apart. believe me, i uncovered things that i would never have imagined my ex would do, but the fact is, the lying hid far more than i'd ever dreamed would be possible.
you deserve better. maybe that'll be him in a year, maybe it'll be someone else, but you will find better than an active alcoholic. the lying will get out of control and the feeling in your gut like you can't even trust the person you love more than anything will tear you apart. believe me, i uncovered things that i would never have imagined my ex would do, but the fact is, the lying hid far more than i'd ever dreamed would be possible.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 240
I'd like to add that in my inital post, I too suggested to at least postpone the wedding until he came to terms with his alcoholism, but erased that portion of my message because I thought it might come across as too negative or harsh. But, that would be my true heart-felt suggestion.
I am in the same exact boat as hopeangel, except that I am 35 years old and realize that I too may never experience that opportunity to have children because I have held onto this "marriage" for so long. My husband actually drank before our wedding ceremony. As I walked down the aisle on my father's arm, I could tell right away that he had been drinking. There's nothing worse than that feeling of sickening anxiety on your own wedding day, as you're walking down the aisle, with hundreds of eyeballs on you. I thought I was going to jump out of my skin. I have known my husband for almost 11 years and we will have been married for 7 of those years in September. He has been sober for just over 2 years of our marriage, and those aren't 2 consecutive years. He has been actively drinking for more than 70% of our marriage! And I won't even get into before we were married.
I do love my husband. He is fantastic when he is not drinking, but as you can tell from the numbers above, most of his time is spent drinking vs. not drinking. Personally, if I knew then what I know now, I would have never ever gotten involved in this marriage. I should have taken the time to educate myself about this disease before we got married. I hold myself responsible for that error in judgement.
I am in the same exact boat as hopeangel, except that I am 35 years old and realize that I too may never experience that opportunity to have children because I have held onto this "marriage" for so long. My husband actually drank before our wedding ceremony. As I walked down the aisle on my father's arm, I could tell right away that he had been drinking. There's nothing worse than that feeling of sickening anxiety on your own wedding day, as you're walking down the aisle, with hundreds of eyeballs on you. I thought I was going to jump out of my skin. I have known my husband for almost 11 years and we will have been married for 7 of those years in September. He has been sober for just over 2 years of our marriage, and those aren't 2 consecutive years. He has been actively drinking for more than 70% of our marriage! And I won't even get into before we were married.
I do love my husband. He is fantastic when he is not drinking, but as you can tell from the numbers above, most of his time is spent drinking vs. not drinking. Personally, if I knew then what I know now, I would have never ever gotten involved in this marriage. I should have taken the time to educate myself about this disease before we got married. I hold myself responsible for that error in judgement.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: concord, nc
Posts: 304
Diem perdidi, Please reread these post. They are full of wisdom. My sister always reminds me that when you deal with an A, there will always be more questions than answers. If you ever think you are finally finding answers, the questions will change. My precious nephew says, "Don't stand in the quick sand." Welcome to the board. It is priceless.
Guest
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,580
Thank you for sharing your painful story with us. There isn't much I can add to the sage advice you've already been provided. Your relationship..like this man's sobriety..has derailed. As cold as this may sound to you...the most loving thing you can do for yourself, your child and this man is be prepared to sever this relationship. If you stay, you are tolerating both is lies and his drinking. You have to save yourself so that he has the room, space to save himself. He needs to face consequences of his actions. He is a grown man with the right of choice. You start being his mommy now...you always will be.
I had to be abandoned in my own rubble before I sobered up. I sobered up for the same reason I drank ...pain. It is when the pain of consequence outweighs its benefit that we are most likely to make a change.
I had to be abandoned in my own rubble before I sobered up. I sobered up for the same reason I drank ...pain. It is when the pain of consequence outweighs its benefit that we are most likely to make a change.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: oh
Posts: 757
i wanted to add
if you choose to marry this man be prepared for the next thing you hear to be "you married me" alcoholism is progressive and so are the jusifications. i guess part of the point about having the power to change the situation now is greater before being married than after, is that you take this out of the equation and the motivation to change may still be there.
if you choose to marry this man i want you to consider that the sacrifices may be great. i wasn't going to share this, but i feel compelled to now. i was pregnant in our marriage. he got drunk and a fight ensued. i started hyperventilating because i was so upset by the situation. i was once again hysterical. the next morning the baby was gone. no one will ever convince me that this arguement, and my reaction to it, is not what took this precious fragile life. i will live with the guilt and pain of this the rest of my life. i vowed from that moment forward to start changing me and that i would never allow this to happen ever again.
i fight everyday to regain my own identity and who i am because this disease takes it from you. it is very much like an affair. you question your own worthiness as time after time the alcoholic chooses alcohol over you.
as long as alcohol is in the picture you are marrying half a person, the other half belongs to the alcohol.
sorry if this is seeming to negative, but i have found that the honest real posts that are not sugarcoated here are the ones that have helped me the most. you may feel angry for a while. you will make the best decision for you with what you know at the time.
i would definitely say that a great education of the disease is in order to arm yourself fully with the information you need to make well informed decisions.
we are all here for you and all mean well.
if you choose to marry this man i want you to consider that the sacrifices may be great. i wasn't going to share this, but i feel compelled to now. i was pregnant in our marriage. he got drunk and a fight ensued. i started hyperventilating because i was so upset by the situation. i was once again hysterical. the next morning the baby was gone. no one will ever convince me that this arguement, and my reaction to it, is not what took this precious fragile life. i will live with the guilt and pain of this the rest of my life. i vowed from that moment forward to start changing me and that i would never allow this to happen ever again.
i fight everyday to regain my own identity and who i am because this disease takes it from you. it is very much like an affair. you question your own worthiness as time after time the alcoholic chooses alcohol over you.
as long as alcohol is in the picture you are marrying half a person, the other half belongs to the alcohol.
sorry if this is seeming to negative, but i have found that the honest real posts that are not sugarcoated here are the ones that have helped me the most. you may feel angry for a while. you will make the best decision for you with what you know at the time.
i would definitely say that a great education of the disease is in order to arm yourself fully with the information you need to make well informed decisions.
we are all here for you and all mean well.
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: In Search of Finding ME!
Posts: 1,246
Sweetie, let me assure you upfront that I say this with the most kindness in my heart - even if it sounds cold.
He has a previous marriage that was destroyed by his alcohol abuse. He has a relationship with you that is being destroyed by his alcohol abuse. Even if he is aware and admits he has a drinking problem, admitting it is only the first step. It takes a lot of willpower, dedication, work, and effort to work the program and find sobriety and keep it.
As you will hear and read during your search of alcoholism, you will find that you keep hearing how alcoholism is progressive. And that is something you must really accept that! And realize that if you decide to have a life with this man, his drinking - the lies - deceit - secrets - etc will continue to progress. And I'd suggest you ask yourself and be really honest with yourself if this is the life you wish to have with someone and the life you wish to expose your daughter too. It is going to be a lifetime journey! Is it one you wish to travel? One that may continue to get worse?
I know that you probably love this man and you want what is best for him. I know that feeling. But what I discovered after a whole lot of denial, ignoring red flags, and such - the years of pain and unhappiness - I finally came to realize that I couldn't save my XAH - but I could save myself. In telling you this, I hope you will understand that you can't save him - only he can save himself. He's showing you right now that he doesn't plan on doing that anytime soon.
I hope that you will continue to stick around here at SR. Believe me when I tell you that many (if not all) of us understand how you are feeling and alot of what you are going through.
He has a previous marriage that was destroyed by his alcohol abuse. He has a relationship with you that is being destroyed by his alcohol abuse. Even if he is aware and admits he has a drinking problem, admitting it is only the first step. It takes a lot of willpower, dedication, work, and effort to work the program and find sobriety and keep it.
As you will hear and read during your search of alcoholism, you will find that you keep hearing how alcoholism is progressive. And that is something you must really accept that! And realize that if you decide to have a life with this man, his drinking - the lies - deceit - secrets - etc will continue to progress. And I'd suggest you ask yourself and be really honest with yourself if this is the life you wish to have with someone and the life you wish to expose your daughter too. It is going to be a lifetime journey! Is it one you wish to travel? One that may continue to get worse?
I know that you probably love this man and you want what is best for him. I know that feeling. But what I discovered after a whole lot of denial, ignoring red flags, and such - the years of pain and unhappiness - I finally came to realize that I couldn't save my XAH - but I could save myself. In telling you this, I hope you will understand that you can't save him - only he can save himself. He's showing you right now that he doesn't plan on doing that anytime soon.
I hope that you will continue to stick around here at SR. Believe me when I tell you that many (if not all) of us understand how you are feeling and alot of what you are going through.
Recovering Nicely
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 935
"I think if i could give you advice knowing what i know now. i would tell you if you truly love this man, which it is obvious you do, that you have more power to change things now than you will after you are married. i would tell you to put a stop to the wedding before it goes any farther and set your boundaries now. believe me, the farther they know they can go with you the farther they will go. YOU TEACH THEM WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU! if you do not do this now, eventually they will have no respect for you. right now i feel that me leaving might be the only hope i have in helping AH to change himself. i don't know if he has a reason to change with me still here as his security blanket"
Very well said, but I put those boundaries in place over 18 years ago and my AH relapsed after over 14 years sober. Always know that there is a chance, and ask yourself if you're willing to put up with it if it should happen. After almost a totally heartbreaking year or so for me, dealing with the shock, disappointment, all over again type thing, I have come to a place in my life where I am still better off with him than without him, and I hope the day never comes when I feel different. But then again, I'd always hoped the day would never come when he would relapse, and I always thought if he did, I would be out of there. I pray that you be guided in the right direction.
Very well said, but I put those boundaries in place over 18 years ago and my AH relapsed after over 14 years sober. Always know that there is a chance, and ask yourself if you're willing to put up with it if it should happen. After almost a totally heartbreaking year or so for me, dealing with the shock, disappointment, all over again type thing, I have come to a place in my life where I am still better off with him than without him, and I hope the day never comes when I feel different. But then again, I'd always hoped the day would never come when he would relapse, and I always thought if he did, I would be out of there. I pray that you be guided in the right direction.
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