being selfish
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Milwaukee WI
Posts: 137
being selfish
Ok, I know that I am being selfish here. But since my AH left Thurs I have not taken his calls. I shut off the answering machine and set my cell to silence. I just wanted this whole time without him and without talking to him.
He still is in the thought that somehow "nothing" is wrong and that everything that he has done (too numerous to list) should be in the past...well that is very hard to do when they keep happening over and over.
I know he made it to his parents as he left several messages on my cell and now a e-mail message.
Sometimes I just want to treat him like he has treated me, shutting his phone off, not answering when he is out, not coming homes for hours, leaving work early and not saying a word.....on and on. But, I do know that somehow it will be my fault...and he still won't "get it"...........and he will say "SORRY THAT YOU FEEL THAT WAY!! I have to say I was amazed when I read that thread...because he says that to me all the time!!
So, I will probably answer the phone today...because I feel guilty for not doing...
Thanks for listening gusy!!
He still is in the thought that somehow "nothing" is wrong and that everything that he has done (too numerous to list) should be in the past...well that is very hard to do when they keep happening over and over.
I know he made it to his parents as he left several messages on my cell and now a e-mail message.
Sometimes I just want to treat him like he has treated me, shutting his phone off, not answering when he is out, not coming homes for hours, leaving work early and not saying a word.....on and on. But, I do know that somehow it will be my fault...and he still won't "get it"...........and he will say "SORRY THAT YOU FEEL THAT WAY!! I have to say I was amazed when I read that thread...because he says that to me all the time!!
So, I will probably answer the phone today...because I feel guilty for not doing...
Thanks for listening gusy!!
Becoming a Butterfly
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 904
It's good that you're not engaging him - good for your sanity that is. But I wonder if you're trying to use this as revenge. If this is about revenge then you're engaged even if it appears that you're not - does that make any sense?
What do you want knowing that the only person you can control here is yourself?
What do you want knowing that the only person you can control here is yourself?
Let Go Let God
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: jersey shore
Posts: 437
hi ss ..
i dont blame you for not taking his calls or returning his msgs . you need some downtime away from him , time to digest whats going on . dont feel guilty about it at all . but also dont be doing it so that 'he gets it' . he'll get it if he wants to when he wants to no matter what you do . if hes gonna see the light , he'll see it through whatever obstacles are blocking it .
i find that we tend to behave in a certain way because of what someone else will get out of it .. (does that make sense) .. then if that someone doesnt 'get it' we blame ourselves for not choosing the right behavior . like if we did something different they would 'get it' ... we cannot force them to see whats right in front of their faces , if you dont want to hear from him or have any contact with him , then dont but do it for you and dont let another minute go by that you are checking your phone or email to see just how many of his attempts you are ignoring .. go about your day , enjoy , do some shopping ! dont feel selfish , we arent selfish enough !
good luck !
i dont blame you for not taking his calls or returning his msgs . you need some downtime away from him , time to digest whats going on . dont feel guilty about it at all . but also dont be doing it so that 'he gets it' . he'll get it if he wants to when he wants to no matter what you do . if hes gonna see the light , he'll see it through whatever obstacles are blocking it .
i find that we tend to behave in a certain way because of what someone else will get out of it .. (does that make sense) .. then if that someone doesnt 'get it' we blame ourselves for not choosing the right behavior . like if we did something different they would 'get it' ... we cannot force them to see whats right in front of their faces , if you dont want to hear from him or have any contact with him , then dont but do it for you and dont let another minute go by that you are checking your phone or email to see just how many of his attempts you are ignoring .. go about your day , enjoy , do some shopping ! dont feel selfish , we arent selfish enough !
good luck !
I'm no angel!
Join Date: May 2005
Location: tampa, fl
Posts: 6,728
Guilt is a self imposed emotion, we create guilt all by ourselves. It is related to our own insecurities, the need to please and the feeling we have failed another.
You didn't fail him, he failed himself, and when he was out on a toot, he never gave you a thought, he was busy getting high and figuring out how to get more drugs, so he could continue his party.
Selfish, no, he is the selfish one, the one who cares not about anyone but him.
Don't lay a guilt trip on yourself, go about your business of living.
You didn't fail him, he failed himself, and when he was out on a toot, he never gave you a thought, he was busy getting high and figuring out how to get more drugs, so he could continue his party.
Selfish, no, he is the selfish one, the one who cares not about anyone but him.
Don't lay a guilt trip on yourself, go about your business of living.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: anomaly
Posts: 2,180
it's just a codi/alki co-depencdency dance.
I dun no..i have the book , i read it, i knew what was happening.
when i went through it. But my knowelege did nothing to stop it.
I guess i stop doing it when i hit my bottom. One different
is with my konwelege ..i was able to observed, without
really going crazy. My experince of my bottom is semilar
to what to book pretty much explained it. So I didn't take too
personally , as if life is unfair. i suffer from co-dependency
It's a sickness...from my experience it's actually worst than being an alki.
I stopped drinking 15 years ago.
My GF went into a relapsed 3 years ago, and it's been a living hell.
It got worst and worst the longer i continued to do it.
The reason it's a dance becuse there's 2 poeple involved.
One is neihter better than the other, both are feeding the sickness.
You stated already he said those samething over and over again....
Will doing the samething over and over again and expecting differnent results is insanity, especailly for a codi.
Feeling selfish and guilty at then same time..yikes!!
There is a way out, I choose to work the 12 steps of co-dependency.
I dun no..i have the book , i read it, i knew what was happening.
when i went through it. But my knowelege did nothing to stop it.
I guess i stop doing it when i hit my bottom. One different
is with my konwelege ..i was able to observed, without
really going crazy. My experince of my bottom is semilar
to what to book pretty much explained it. So I didn't take too
personally , as if life is unfair. i suffer from co-dependency
It's a sickness...from my experience it's actually worst than being an alki.
I stopped drinking 15 years ago.
My GF went into a relapsed 3 years ago, and it's been a living hell.
It got worst and worst the longer i continued to do it.
The reason it's a dance becuse there's 2 poeple involved.
One is neihter better than the other, both are feeding the sickness.
You stated already he said those samething over and over again....
Will doing the samething over and over again and expecting differnent results is insanity, especailly for a codi.
Feeling selfish and guilty at then same time..yikes!!
There is a way out, I choose to work the 12 steps of co-dependency.
Last edited by SaTiT; 04-07-2007 at 10:10 AM.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: FL
Posts: 14,246
Hi,
You got some great replies. I guess I would just add that for me and action I choose could be right or wrong to do but my motives for things are the true indicator if I'm practicing my recovery or not.
Only I know the 'what' and 'why' and I think it was good that you are questioning if you were being selfish because it means you are open to suggestions.
I don't see it as selfish at all... and I hope you will go out and do something that _you_ want to do today- and not focus on his choices. If a little anger helps motivate you to live your own life, then use it but don't let the anger use you.
You got some great replies. I guess I would just add that for me and action I choose could be right or wrong to do but my motives for things are the true indicator if I'm practicing my recovery or not.
Only I know the 'what' and 'why' and I think it was good that you are questioning if you were being selfish because it means you are open to suggestions.
I don't see it as selfish at all... and I hope you will go out and do something that _you_ want to do today- and not focus on his choices. If a little anger helps motivate you to live your own life, then use it but don't let the anger use you.
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: In Search of Finding ME!
Posts: 1,246
I think it's very normal to have those times when you feel the desire to give to another what they have given you.
But I also think that there is no harm at all in taking time for yourself to take care of yourself.
I guess what I'm saying is that sometimes we do things and we have to really question the reasons/motives behind what we are doing in order to make sure they are being done for the right reasons.
All in all though, I'd say that you're not dealing with him right now - whatever the motives are - really isn't selfish. You've been through alot and you need time for yourself. There is nothing selfish in taking care of yourself - especially when you finally realize that you can't take care (aka: fix) a person that doesn't want to be fixed.
But I also think that there is no harm at all in taking time for yourself to take care of yourself.
I guess what I'm saying is that sometimes we do things and we have to really question the reasons/motives behind what we are doing in order to make sure they are being done for the right reasons.
All in all though, I'd say that you're not dealing with him right now - whatever the motives are - really isn't selfish. You've been through alot and you need time for yourself. There is nothing selfish in taking care of yourself - especially when you finally realize that you can't take care (aka: fix) a person that doesn't want to be fixed.
Belgian Sheepdog Adictee
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Today
Posts: 6,101
SS while he is at his mothers would be a good time for you to find and attend some Alanon meetings FOR YOU.
Wants Out is so correct.....................check you motives. Are you not answering the phone and email because you just do not want to talk to him and have some 'freedom' from the chaos while he is gone, or is it revenge? "I'll do to you what you always do to me?"
Check your motives! Alanon will be a great help to you in learning how to set your boundaries both for him and your bounardies for you. Alanon will be a great help in learning how not to participte in the 'dance' any more.
Keep posting to let us know how you are doing, we do care.
I hope while you have this respite from him, you can find a way to sort your thoughts and plan some of your next moves. I know you are in a very rough situation, many of us here have gone through what you are going through now and we will walk.
Oh and while he is gone, please do some nice things for you. Something you have been wanting to do.......renting a movie you have been wanting to see, taking a long leisurally bubble bath, get your hair and/or nails done, etc.
We are with you.
Love and hugs,
Wants Out is so correct.....................check you motives. Are you not answering the phone and email because you just do not want to talk to him and have some 'freedom' from the chaos while he is gone, or is it revenge? "I'll do to you what you always do to me?"
Check your motives! Alanon will be a great help to you in learning how to set your boundaries both for him and your bounardies for you. Alanon will be a great help in learning how not to participte in the 'dance' any more.
Keep posting to let us know how you are doing, we do care.
I hope while you have this respite from him, you can find a way to sort your thoughts and plan some of your next moves. I know you are in a very rough situation, many of us here have gone through what you are going through now and we will walk.
Oh and while he is gone, please do some nice things for you. Something you have been wanting to do.......renting a movie you have been wanting to see, taking a long leisurally bubble bath, get your hair and/or nails done, etc.
We are with you.
Love and hugs,
Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: state of confusion
Posts: 351
It is amazing how when I read so many of these posts, I remember a different phase I went through my AH.
My husband was very, very persistent and would never take "no" for an answer... and no matter what he did or how hideous his behavior, he would always try to convince me I was overreacting. He would call over and over again and I did my best not to answer... however, there were times he actually stopped calling for 4 to 5 hours- beautiful hours that gave me an opportunity to discover how much calmer and more peaceful our home was without his insanity infiltrating every inch of it. I was so consumed with dealing with his disruptive, irrational behavior on a daily basis ... it took over almost every thought or decision of I had ... and the time alone without contact from him allowed me to rediscover who I really was ... when I was just being "myself" for a change rather than reacting to his craziness.
The time with no contact, no matter what the original motive, gave me a glimpse of what life could be like ... and confirmed that I was a much better person away from the insanity. It gave me the confidence I needed in future years that I had made the right choice to separate and let him make his own decision to achieve long term sobriety .. or to live alone without his family as his passengers on his journey to self destruction.
My husband was very, very persistent and would never take "no" for an answer... and no matter what he did or how hideous his behavior, he would always try to convince me I was overreacting. He would call over and over again and I did my best not to answer... however, there were times he actually stopped calling for 4 to 5 hours- beautiful hours that gave me an opportunity to discover how much calmer and more peaceful our home was without his insanity infiltrating every inch of it. I was so consumed with dealing with his disruptive, irrational behavior on a daily basis ... it took over almost every thought or decision of I had ... and the time alone without contact from him allowed me to rediscover who I really was ... when I was just being "myself" for a change rather than reacting to his craziness.
The time with no contact, no matter what the original motive, gave me a glimpse of what life could be like ... and confirmed that I was a much better person away from the insanity. It gave me the confidence I needed in future years that I had made the right choice to separate and let him make his own decision to achieve long term sobriety .. or to live alone without his family as his passengers on his journey to self destruction.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: anomaly
Posts: 2,180
It took everything out of me to let go of my GF.
I felt so damn guilty...." i knew i could fix her"....wrong, wrong, wrong.
"its not that I don't love her, it's that i love her too much"
This sentence help me to ease my guilt.
But the true test is when she knocks on my door or shows up to my work
and i give even more money, after kicking her out.
oh yes....we all played that e-mail tag game too.
I felt so damn guilty...." i knew i could fix her"....wrong, wrong, wrong.
"its not that I don't love her, it's that i love her too much"
This sentence help me to ease my guilt.
But the true test is when she knocks on my door or shows up to my work
and i give even more money, after kicking her out.
oh yes....we all played that e-mail tag game too.
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: In Search of Finding ME!
Posts: 1,246
Well Glass, I don't find it curious. I believe that the codependant has been too much into someone else and needs to learn to care about themselves. The recovering A having been selfish and causing others great pain now finds themselves realizing what they have done and are making amends.
I believe the goal is to get the codependant to be more self aware and the recovering A to be more aware of others feelings - therefore; creating a wonderful balance between the two.
Just my thoughts.
I believe the goal is to get the codependant to be more self aware and the recovering A to be more aware of others feelings - therefore; creating a wonderful balance between the two.
Just my thoughts.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: anomaly
Posts: 2,180
I closest i can describe the codi exerpience is through my
experince of working at an old folks home.
You love your love ones...
Some of the folks had old timmers disease and they would phase
into and out of consciousness. There was a very nice old lady
She plays the most beautiful piano music in the morning and she
is very nice when she is herself, as if she was my mother.
In the afternoon this same lady was a total lunitic. She would
have all kinds of tantrum and basically go crazy...real craziness.
It was very, very draining for me try to keep her safe.
Drugs and alcohol dose the same thing to my GF
it's Dr. jackly and Mrs. hyde. 24/7s.
As long as I can see it like that... i can try to cope.
But ya see....the 24/7s...i lack sleep from having to deal
with her and from working. After a while , my temper gets short
i can't consentrate and I become dysfunctional. The next thing i know
i'm having a total break down...
While the damn addict is high as a kite and numb to everything.
So...yeah !!! the codi suffers more.
Good lord...if the addict gets sober and start FEELING...they whine like babies.
WTF ...sharlock holmes, welcome back to earth !!!
And how the hell was your journey into the twiglight zone...
Gee...weezzzz.
Alki " yep peee...look ma the tornado stopped...mmm btw what happened to the barn?"
experince of working at an old folks home.
You love your love ones...
Some of the folks had old timmers disease and they would phase
into and out of consciousness. There was a very nice old lady
She plays the most beautiful piano music in the morning and she
is very nice when she is herself, as if she was my mother.
In the afternoon this same lady was a total lunitic. She would
have all kinds of tantrum and basically go crazy...real craziness.
It was very, very draining for me try to keep her safe.
Drugs and alcohol dose the same thing to my GF
it's Dr. jackly and Mrs. hyde. 24/7s.
As long as I can see it like that... i can try to cope.
But ya see....the 24/7s...i lack sleep from having to deal
with her and from working. After a while , my temper gets short
i can't consentrate and I become dysfunctional. The next thing i know
i'm having a total break down...
While the damn addict is high as a kite and numb to everything.
So...yeah !!! the codi suffers more.
Good lord...if the addict gets sober and start FEELING...they whine like babies.
WTF ...sharlock holmes, welcome back to earth !!!
And how the hell was your journey into the twiglight zone...
Gee...weezzzz.
Alki " yep peee...look ma the tornado stopped...mmm btw what happened to the barn?"
Last edited by SaTiT; 04-07-2007 at 11:30 AM.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,358
I admit that when I was still with my ex, I did some things out of 'revenge' or 'unhealthy motives' like 'you did this to me, so I'll do it back to you' kind of thing, not answering or returning his calls....etc
Even though not taking his calls didn't start out as a kind motive, it ending up givng me 'quiet time' and showed me just how much I was involved in his 'drama', how much his life took priority over my own, and just how much I had neglected myself. I had begun getting long over due sleep again, took the first steps towards figuring out how "I" was really feeling, began seeing to my neglected responsibilities, etc.
So what started out with a less than honorable motive, actually was the first step I took in my recovery. I don't think I could have nor should have done it any differently.
Today though, I have the tools and the knowledge to do things differently, so I'm hoping I wouldn't handle it the same way as I did then.
Even though not taking his calls didn't start out as a kind motive, it ending up givng me 'quiet time' and showed me just how much I was involved in his 'drama', how much his life took priority over my own, and just how much I had neglected myself. I had begun getting long over due sleep again, took the first steps towards figuring out how "I" was really feeling, began seeing to my neglected responsibilities, etc.
So what started out with a less than honorable motive, actually was the first step I took in my recovery. I don't think I could have nor should have done it any differently.
Today though, I have the tools and the knowledge to do things differently, so I'm hoping I wouldn't handle it the same way as I did then.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: anomaly
Posts: 2,180
I did the same, ICU. I felt it in my heart, beneath the anger..I knew.
I was so , so **** off and hurt. And she was freaken numb.
And my actions feeds into my guilt and shame even more.
I felt guilty not being able to help her and I get angery at myself.
And it just feeds into the sickness.
my Gf is sober today, But i had to get out of the way of her hitting bottom.
But i can't continue to hurt her. I can feel it in my heart
beneath my pain and anger. I know I shouldn't hurt other people.
So i don't want to add to my list of things...# 8, and #9.
Through her hitting bottom , I've also learned not to expected
her to make any amends or do #8 or #9. It would happen in her
time and God's time not mine.
I was so , so **** off and hurt. And she was freaken numb.
And my actions feeds into my guilt and shame even more.
I felt guilty not being able to help her and I get angery at myself.
And it just feeds into the sickness.
my Gf is sober today, But i had to get out of the way of her hitting bottom.
But i can't continue to hurt her. I can feel it in my heart
beneath my pain and anger. I know I shouldn't hurt other people.
So i don't want to add to my list of things...# 8, and #9.
Through her hitting bottom , I've also learned not to expected
her to make any amends or do #8 or #9. It would happen in her
time and God's time not mine.
Belgian Sheepdog Adictee
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Today
Posts: 6,101
Slightly OT.
But, I find it curious how the Codie strives to think more of themselves in recovery, and the Alcoholic strives to think of others.........
But, I find it curious how the Codie strives to think more of themselves in recovery, and the Alcoholic strives to think of others.........
Good call GP. However, I also had to attend Alanon for many years to deal with my 'codie' side, lol. Today I believe I have a 'happy medium', R O F L M A O
SS hang in there, it (your pain, your indecision, your confusion, etc) will slowly start to make sense.
As to 'being selfish' by not answering his calls or email. Well, I don't think that is selfish. I think that is taking care of you for the first time in a VERY LONG TIME.
J M H O
Love and hugs,
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: anomaly
Posts: 2,180
Originally Posted by GlassPrisoner 
Slightly OT.
But, I find it curious how the Codie strives to think more of themselves in recovery, and the Alcoholic strives to think of others.........
But, I find it curious how the Codie strives to think more of themselves in recovery, and the Alcoholic strives to think of others.........
Just hang or eletricute every Alki/addict s.o.b that's born into this world.
I know in the middle east or in some eastern soceity. They don't
put up with drug and alcohol abuss or any theaving s.o.b.
It is swift and simple
Just be greatful...you're where you're at today.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Milwaukee WI
Posts: 137
I thank everyone for their great points. While I do have anger over the things that have been done, with out any consideration for others on my A's part, but I really am not a "revenge" type person, but I can see where some people might think this is. I really did want to use this time to help me see where I am at, feeling wise about this marriage and my husband. I am finding out that I too am enjoying the quiet...I don't have the "knot" in my stomach knowing that he will be home at a certain time and what kind of shape he will be in.
I have also realized that I can not control him or his behavior or "wish" that he would change. I realize that I am in this situation because of choices I have made over the last 17 yrs with him. And that I am still in this relationship because of choice. I stay for now because I need the income until I get done with school. So, because of my choices I have to face the consequences...good or bad, until I make a different choice. I certainly do understand the "insanity" part...that is clear to me.
But, I also believe he also makes choices good or bad he also has to face the consequences of those choices. I used to think that is was such denial on his part...but know think that it is a choice he is making. No one can act this way and think that it is ok...he is choosing to think that it is.
Hope this makes senes..
But, I can say that just having these 3 days so far, I have been able to really have some AHA moments...
I have also realized that I can not control him or his behavior or "wish" that he would change. I realize that I am in this situation because of choices I have made over the last 17 yrs with him. And that I am still in this relationship because of choice. I stay for now because I need the income until I get done with school. So, because of my choices I have to face the consequences...good or bad, until I make a different choice. I certainly do understand the "insanity" part...that is clear to me.
But, I also believe he also makes choices good or bad he also has to face the consequences of those choices. I used to think that is was such denial on his part...but know think that it is a choice he is making. No one can act this way and think that it is ok...he is choosing to think that it is.
Hope this makes senes..
But, I can say that just having these 3 days so far, I have been able to really have some AHA moments... Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,358
Originally Posted by stillsearching
...But, I can say that just having these 3 days so far, I have been able to really have some AHA moments...
To me those moments felt like someone put a warm, soft blanket on me fresh out of the drier, and warmed up all my numb goose-bumps. And I would get feeling back all the way down to my toes.
And yes, I agree...he too is making choices, whether he is consciously aware or not. I picked abusive men to be in my life. Although I was not consciously aware of the reasons why, still, it was my choice AND my consequences.
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