Update, and another request for reassurance
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: OR
Posts: 32
Update, and another request for reassurance
Well, my AB, who I "separated from" 1 week and 1 day ago (with the ultimatum that he go to an AA meeting, and then we can talk) spent all weekend drunk. He spent all last night throwing up in the toilet, left his dog in the yard in the rain all night and couldn't find her this morning (she came back later), and went to work with a spinning head, finally decided to go to a meeting tonight. He called to let me know, and then asked if I would come home to talk later tonight. I said I would (honoring my original ultimatum).
Over the past week I have done a lot of thinking about what it would take for me to feel comfortable with continuing our relationship. For the first time, I have my standards, and those standards revolve arond what I NEED and WANT. It basically boiled down to my perception of "recovery".
I decided that he needed to be receptive to the fact that I too need to recover, that my life isn't about his disease, and that he needs to be as patient with me as I have been with him.
I decided that he would need to attend AA everyday until he found a sponsor (and that he should get a sponsor within 2 weeks). And, after he found a sponsor he should attend as often as he and his sponsor agreed was right for his sobriety.
I decided we needed to discuss his "friends", who knew he was attending AA during the summer, and didn't seem to give a rats a** that he was drinking in front of them.
I decided that I had to continue to visit this forum, look at Al-anon, and pursue my own interests.
So...he called on his way to the meeting. He was in a positive frame of mind, excited about going, etc. He has been this way a few times before. I started to feel out what we would discuss tonight after his meeting, and he said "Honestly, I don't want to get into a long drawn out conversation tonight".
My gut clenched...familiar territory. I wasn't going to do what I used to do which was to be happy he was going to a meeting and ignore my desire to talk.
So..I told him it was important to me that we do talk. His response, "okay, what do you want to talk about?".
I told him I thought he needed to attend AA everyday until he found a sponsor. His response, "well, i just told you I was going to one on Thursday...I feel like you're being demanding and aren't supporting my going to a meeting..."
I told him it was great that he was going to a meeting, but that I didn't feel a lot of assurance regarding his committment to sobriety, especially considering he was objecting to attending AA tomorrow. I told him that I wasn't comfortable coming home...that I needed more assurance. His response, "I respect that you need space and time. You have every right to request more assurance, but I don't appreciate the threat. I don't want a flippy-floppy girlfriend"
I tried to articulate myself further, until he explained that he was "getting frustrated with the conversation and having trouble being receptive". I told him to call me later if he was interested in listening to me, that I had been patient with him on several occasions, and that I deserved the same.
I am so tired of getting excited at him taking one step forward because he has always taken at least one step back afterwards. I was glad he went to a meeting, but I wasn't excited like I used to be. My gut tells me that he STILL doesn't get the gravity of sobriety. He just doesn't get the committment required, and he certainly doesn't appear to be concerned with my need for assurance of that committment. He doesn't hear how contradicting he is when in one converstation he says he "never wants to hurt me", "wants me to come home", and "wants to be sober", and in the next conversation he gets frustrated about listening to my feelings and concerns, objects to the actions that would make me want to come home, and gets upset about the ridiculous notion of attending AA daily.
For a brief minute I felt guilty for not vibrantly supporting this person, who I supposidly care about, in his quest for sobriety. Boy am I glad I wrote this out because it is clear that he is STILL not in that "quest for sobriety", at least not to the extent that I need him to be...and that's what is important for me right now. I guess I seek a little bit of solace in the fact that by not giving into his luke warm pursuit of sobriety, I am not enabling him...and, I am still sticking to my guns.
Over the past week I have done a lot of thinking about what it would take for me to feel comfortable with continuing our relationship. For the first time, I have my standards, and those standards revolve arond what I NEED and WANT. It basically boiled down to my perception of "recovery".
I decided that he needed to be receptive to the fact that I too need to recover, that my life isn't about his disease, and that he needs to be as patient with me as I have been with him.
I decided that he would need to attend AA everyday until he found a sponsor (and that he should get a sponsor within 2 weeks). And, after he found a sponsor he should attend as often as he and his sponsor agreed was right for his sobriety.
I decided we needed to discuss his "friends", who knew he was attending AA during the summer, and didn't seem to give a rats a** that he was drinking in front of them.
I decided that I had to continue to visit this forum, look at Al-anon, and pursue my own interests.
So...he called on his way to the meeting. He was in a positive frame of mind, excited about going, etc. He has been this way a few times before. I started to feel out what we would discuss tonight after his meeting, and he said "Honestly, I don't want to get into a long drawn out conversation tonight".
My gut clenched...familiar territory. I wasn't going to do what I used to do which was to be happy he was going to a meeting and ignore my desire to talk.
So..I told him it was important to me that we do talk. His response, "okay, what do you want to talk about?".
I told him I thought he needed to attend AA everyday until he found a sponsor. His response, "well, i just told you I was going to one on Thursday...I feel like you're being demanding and aren't supporting my going to a meeting..."
I told him it was great that he was going to a meeting, but that I didn't feel a lot of assurance regarding his committment to sobriety, especially considering he was objecting to attending AA tomorrow. I told him that I wasn't comfortable coming home...that I needed more assurance. His response, "I respect that you need space and time. You have every right to request more assurance, but I don't appreciate the threat. I don't want a flippy-floppy girlfriend"
I tried to articulate myself further, until he explained that he was "getting frustrated with the conversation and having trouble being receptive". I told him to call me later if he was interested in listening to me, that I had been patient with him on several occasions, and that I deserved the same.
I am so tired of getting excited at him taking one step forward because he has always taken at least one step back afterwards. I was glad he went to a meeting, but I wasn't excited like I used to be. My gut tells me that he STILL doesn't get the gravity of sobriety. He just doesn't get the committment required, and he certainly doesn't appear to be concerned with my need for assurance of that committment. He doesn't hear how contradicting he is when in one converstation he says he "never wants to hurt me", "wants me to come home", and "wants to be sober", and in the next conversation he gets frustrated about listening to my feelings and concerns, objects to the actions that would make me want to come home, and gets upset about the ridiculous notion of attending AA daily.
For a brief minute I felt guilty for not vibrantly supporting this person, who I supposidly care about, in his quest for sobriety. Boy am I glad I wrote this out because it is clear that he is STILL not in that "quest for sobriety", at least not to the extent that I need him to be...and that's what is important for me right now. I guess I seek a little bit of solace in the fact that by not giving into his luke warm pursuit of sobriety, I am not enabling him...and, I am still sticking to my guns.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Dixie
Posts: 612
Golden, you are not going to like what I have to say, and I really mean no offense, but I'm gonna lay this on the line for you... "I decided" this about his recovery, "I decided" that about his friends... ultimatums about continuing the relationship... You are on a fast track to NO WHERE. YOU don't "decide" anything about your AB's life OR his plan for sobriety. You can only make decisions about your OWN life. And you have done this by setting and establishing your boundary -- get treatment, or we're through. That should be the end of the discussion.
You insist that he go to meetings, and then make him "report" to you when he gets home? Listen to me, honey... this will not work. I don't have enough words (or enough time) to list all the wrong turns you are making. If you want him to make ANY progress, you need to back off and stop being his snoopervisor.
I'm sorry if this is harsh, but you need to hear the truth about this.
You insist that he go to meetings, and then make him "report" to you when he gets home? Listen to me, honey... this will not work. I don't have enough words (or enough time) to list all the wrong turns you are making. If you want him to make ANY progress, you need to back off and stop being his snoopervisor.
I'm sorry if this is harsh, but you need to hear the truth about this.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Booneyville USA
Posts: 246
Golden for now I think you need to just stop talking to him about his drinking and what YOU think HE needs to do to fix HIS problem. PERIOD. If HE brings it up and wants to discuss it then fine. But YOU have to stop bringing it up. That approach has not worked in the past and its not working now. He will take it as nagging. YES you have EVERY RIGHT to have your boundaries respected. You have made it VERY clear that you will not go home until ge goes to a meeting. Say it once then let it go. YOU deserve to be happy too and he "should" be patient in your recovery as well. BUT you are NOT dealing with a NORMAL person. He is an alcoholic. He doesn't give a rats a$$ about YOUR recovery because he CAN'T. He can only deal with HIS recovery. You will not go home until he is serious about his recovery but you can't MAKE him do it. That will only lead to resentment towards you and failure for him. If he wants to he will. If he doesn't then all the nagging and ultimatums and threats in the world aren't going to help (Trust me. Been there done that! 
) They're only going to frustrate the heck out of you!
If he wants you to come home and you told him (JUST ONE TIME) that you will if he goes to a meeting then ok. You want to honor your promise to him. Great. But like his recovery (and yours) take it one day at a time. Don't move back home permanently if you don't feel he is serious about his recovery and you don't want to be disappointed when he doesn't do what you asked of him. You guys will probably play this "game" for awhile before one of you gets sick of it enough to just walk away (sounds like it will be you!) You have stuck to your guns on this so far. I'm SO PROUD of you!! Don't give up now. But don't discuss his drinking or what YOU think he needs to do to recover. That's something only HE can figure out. WORK ON YOU! Do what YOU need to be happy. Let him worry about his meetings. You can spend whatever nights he goes with him or without him. That's up to you. THAT part YOU can control.
Whether he goes or not...nope. Not under your control.
) They're only going to frustrate the heck out of you!If he wants you to come home and you told him (JUST ONE TIME) that you will if he goes to a meeting then ok. You want to honor your promise to him. Great. But like his recovery (and yours) take it one day at a time. Don't move back home permanently if you don't feel he is serious about his recovery and you don't want to be disappointed when he doesn't do what you asked of him. You guys will probably play this "game" for awhile before one of you gets sick of it enough to just walk away (sounds like it will be you!) You have stuck to your guns on this so far. I'm SO PROUD of you!! Don't give up now. But don't discuss his drinking or what YOU think he needs to do to recover. That's something only HE can figure out. WORK ON YOU! Do what YOU need to be happy. Let him worry about his meetings. You can spend whatever nights he goes with him or without him. That's up to you. THAT part YOU can control.
Whether he goes or not...nope. Not under your control.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: OR
Posts: 32
Thanks for the encouragement.
I actually didn't bring up his drinking, he did. Perhaps this wasn't reflected in my post. I was just trying to get out my thoughts.
However, I am going to watch that I am not to discussing his drinking with him unless he brings it up. And, I am definately not going home unless i feel very comfortable. It has actually been great because I have said no to him twice on the matter, and it has really helped me solidify my inner convictions. He did go to a meeting, but I'm not comfortable going home, so I'm not.
The "I decided's" were about me looking into myself and declaring that I have a standard. This was a big deal for me. I've never looked at a relationship in terms of what I required, I was always trying to make myself as appealing to the other person. The "I decided's" were not about him at all. They were a way for me to quantify what I deem important, a way of stating that I will not settle. I don't care if he follows through. I care that I have a standard.
Hope2bhappy, I am certain that you are speaking with the intent to direct me in the safest and healthiest path. It is much appreciated. But, it is a little discouraging that you assume and then express my actions in quotes (as if to talk down to me). Like assuming I expect him to "report" to me; when I don't. It sort of takes the wind out of my sails at a time when I am looking for support. This includes being told that I am on a fast track to nowhere, and calling me "honey". I do appreciate you taking the time to post, and I will be alert to your warnings and suggestions. Keep in mind that I am in a different place than you (perhaps more fragile). Rest assured that I am most definately not on a fast track to nowhere.
I actually didn't bring up his drinking, he did. Perhaps this wasn't reflected in my post. I was just trying to get out my thoughts.
However, I am going to watch that I am not to discussing his drinking with him unless he brings it up. And, I am definately not going home unless i feel very comfortable. It has actually been great because I have said no to him twice on the matter, and it has really helped me solidify my inner convictions. He did go to a meeting, but I'm not comfortable going home, so I'm not.
The "I decided's" were about me looking into myself and declaring that I have a standard. This was a big deal for me. I've never looked at a relationship in terms of what I required, I was always trying to make myself as appealing to the other person. The "I decided's" were not about him at all. They were a way for me to quantify what I deem important, a way of stating that I will not settle. I don't care if he follows through. I care that I have a standard.
Hope2bhappy, I am certain that you are speaking with the intent to direct me in the safest and healthiest path. It is much appreciated. But, it is a little discouraging that you assume and then express my actions in quotes (as if to talk down to me). Like assuming I expect him to "report" to me; when I don't. It sort of takes the wind out of my sails at a time when I am looking for support. This includes being told that I am on a fast track to nowhere, and calling me "honey". I do appreciate you taking the time to post, and I will be alert to your warnings and suggestions. Keep in mind that I am in a different place than you (perhaps more fragile). Rest assured that I am most definately not on a fast track to nowhere.
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Dixie
Posts: 612
I made my original apologies in my original post, as I knew you would not receive it well. I apologize, again. I certainly meant no disrespect. The term "honey" was used lovingly, not sarcastically -- I did not mean to offend or talk down to you. I believe that Dobie echoed everything I said in her response, but stated it differently. I'm assuming that anyone who posts here wants feedback -- positive or otherwise. My feedback is that I think your boundary is a good one, and I think you should end this relationship and find the happiness you deserve.
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: somewhere, some state
Posts: 48
I had a nice reply to this, then shut my browser window by accident.
Basically, it was "yay for you sticking to boundaries." Also, I wanted to say that his commitment to you is separate from his commitment to sobriety...just like your commitment to him is separate from your commitment for personal happiness. Emotions and actions for all of that are going to be different, and conflicted. Took me a while to learn this.
I also learned to never give advice or help unless asked for. And never ever feel guilty about anything you feel...knowing your own emotions can help clarify your actions. Seems your already onto this!
And hope2bhappy and dobiediva are right...his sobriety and recovery are his own, and you can't control nor direct him in it. Its hard...but I think you are starting off great by coming here and starting to focus on YOUR reactions and feelings instead of his, and sticking to your boundaries.
Good luck to you, and keep posting.
Basically, it was "yay for you sticking to boundaries." Also, I wanted to say that his commitment to you is separate from his commitment to sobriety...just like your commitment to him is separate from your commitment for personal happiness. Emotions and actions for all of that are going to be different, and conflicted. Took me a while to learn this.
I also learned to never give advice or help unless asked for. And never ever feel guilty about anything you feel...knowing your own emotions can help clarify your actions. Seems your already onto this!
And hope2bhappy and dobiediva are right...his sobriety and recovery are his own, and you can't control nor direct him in it. Its hard...but I think you are starting off great by coming here and starting to focus on YOUR reactions and feelings instead of his, and sticking to your boundaries.
Good luck to you, and keep posting.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: OR
Posts: 32
"I also learned to never give advice or help unless asked for".
I like how you put this. Especially since (even as a non-alcoholic) I hate it when I get advice I don't ask for. Naturally, AB wouldn't want it, and it defeats my efforts to let him stay the course or derail his own train (whatever he chooses to do).
I think my toughest obstacle right now is my self-imposed sense of duty. I don't want to advise him on his recovery (if it can even be called that at this point). I don't want to get excited about him attending meetings (my happiness doesn't depend on him). But, I have this pre-programmed notion that I should be supportive and encouraging (like his own personal cheerleader).
Tough to go against that socialization. Way worse to give into it.
I like how you put this. Especially since (even as a non-alcoholic) I hate it when I get advice I don't ask for. Naturally, AB wouldn't want it, and it defeats my efforts to let him stay the course or derail his own train (whatever he chooses to do).
I think my toughest obstacle right now is my self-imposed sense of duty. I don't want to advise him on his recovery (if it can even be called that at this point). I don't want to get excited about him attending meetings (my happiness doesn't depend on him). But, I have this pre-programmed notion that I should be supportive and encouraging (like his own personal cheerleader).
Tough to go against that socialization. Way worse to give into it.
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: somewhere, some state
Posts: 48
Originally Posted by golden4life 
Tough to go against that socialization. Way worse to give into it.
You can hate him, cheer for him, care less about him...its all valid. I'm running the gamut of reactions now...I even have to write them in a letter and read it to my bf as part of the family recovery process.
To add to the socialization...aren't we told to "run like hell" from an alcoholic relationship? Thats another thing that guides your reaction. Personally, thats my conflict...I want to stay, but I get the sense it's socially healthier to up and leave.
I'm no angel!
Join Date: May 2005
Location: tampa, fl
Posts: 6,728
You cannot cheer him into soberity, you cannot love him into soberity, this is something he must do for himself, because he wants it more than anything else in the world, including you.
Same applies to you, your recovery from co-dependence lies squarely on your shoulders.
There is no rush to move back home, let him get a year or so of soberity under his belt and then make the decision. In the meantime, keep exploring you and your issues.
My Best,
Dolly
Same applies to you, your recovery from co-dependence lies squarely on your shoulders.
There is no rush to move back home, let him get a year or so of soberity under his belt and then make the decision. In the meantime, keep exploring you and your issues.
My Best,
Dolly
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,358
Originally Posted by golden4life
The "I decided's" were about me looking into myself and declaring that I have a standard. This was a big deal for me. I've never looked at a relationship in terms of what I required, I was always trying to make myself as appealing to the other person. The "I decided's" were not about him at all. They were a way for me to quantify what I deem important, a way of stating that I will not settle. I don't care if he follows through. I care that I have a standard.
P.S. I feel sorry for his dog! I wonder if your dog misses her!!!! Any chance you could take his dog for a little while? An overnite visit or two here and there?
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Booneyville USA
Posts: 246
Golden you're doing great. Good for you for standing strong with what YOU need. You don't owe him any explanations (that he probably won't listen to anyway!) for why you are doing what you are doing. Hopefully someday he will "get it" but if not at least you will have the tools in place for YOUR recovery to move on with or without him and be a happy person.
There's nothing wrong with wanting to support him. You love him. OF COURSE you want him to be successful in this. The key is to not obsess about it and it sounds like you are getting there. Keep moving forward.
There's nothing wrong with wanting to support him. You love him. OF COURSE you want him to be successful in this. The key is to not obsess about it and it sounds like you are getting there. Keep moving forward.
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