free2be

I did tell the middle, she asked, she has always been very intuitive and wise beyond her years. I was honest but, careful how I honest I was...... What I really wanted to say was...... your father is a no good lying drunk piece of S!@T, sc@# bag, a@@**le, he walked out on us, he hasn't given us any $, I am not sure how much oil we have left for heat, we are going to have our car repossed, the house is going into foreclosure, I am borrowing $ left and right to buy food, not sure where we are going to live, he has had affairs, been arrested, been in prison, used/sold steroids and drugs, was physically and verbally abusive to me..... but.... being the kind, classy, tactful and refined lady that I am, I of course refrained.

My oldest has PDD-NOS (high functioning autism). He struggles just to get through the stress and emotional challenges of everyday life. I am not sure how he will handle it. I will talk to his therapist at school first. She probably has suggestions. (Sorry, was thinking out loud).
How and what do I tell the youngest? She adores her dad, says she is going to marry him(over my dead body). I am not sure how much and what she is able to understand at such a youg age. I am so afraid of saying the wrong thing.
Please share - advice, insight, experiences. positive or negative.

WantsOut

In other places, and here in the US in other times, children handled a great deal of responsiblity. They were farm workers, wage earners, tended siblings, etc. While I think that was too much for a child, I feel we've gone too far the other way. Now we keep them in this suspended innocence and assume (not you specifically free, I'm generalizing here) that they're so fragile.

What I'm getting at is that I believe in being upfront and honest, but delicate because it's decent to be delicate. "Daddy's not going to be living here anymore. The reason is because daddy can't stop drinking and I can't live with him." I hope you have been honest about his legal trouble. "Daddy got in trouble for driving his car when he'd been drinking and he's going to be punished because grown ups are not allowed to misbehave just like kids aren't allowed to misbehave."

Try to make a little lemonade out of this - at least give the kids an object lesson on what happens when you get in trouble and when you abuse alcohol.

best

You did well not bad mouthing him.
Right or wrong, he is still dad.

Be truthful but respectful.
Dad moved out and where we don't get along, he may not be back.
Why did he move?
He has an illness that he needs deal with.
What illness?
It is called alcoholism. It is caused by drinking.
Will he get better?
That is up to him to find answers. We can't do it for him.

Truthful, short answers and no disrespect given.

elizabeth1979

Children ARE fraglie Wants.

LaTeeDa

Yes they are. I can attest to that. My children are 10 and 14, and I hate to admit that more emotional damage was done to them during the years we all lived with active alcoholism and codependency, than the damage done by separation.

As hard as it is, you musn't disrespect him in front of them. This includes not only not saying bad things about him to them, but saying bad things about him to others where they can overhear, and also not fighting with him in front of them.

The main thing you need to reinforce over and over and over, is that IT'S NOT THEIR FAULT. This seems obvious to us as adults, but children will automatically blame themselves when something goes wrong in their world. Let them know that nothing they have done has caused this, and nothing they can do will change it. Daddy's sick. Talk to them in age appropriate ways about alcoholism and set a good example by showing compassion for the alcoholic. They've likely already experienced more that their share of trauma. The best thing you can do is be gentle and understanding with them and avoid dumping any of your negative feelings on them. (Not saying you shouldn't have negative feelings, but find someone else to talk to about them.)

Hang in there. I understand how hard it all is. ((((()))))

L

Pick-a-name

I hope this isn't a hijack of this thread, but what about older children (young adults) who are in less denial than I have been about things and the comments they make about him,to me? Sometimes they vent and go to the opposite extreme. I know their relationships are to be worked out between them( a "young 24y" with heart problems and ADHD and a 19y). One has had some counseling and the other refuses it. Both are college students. Their dad is active in his addictions and ISMS and moved out of our house to "live his life" before the recent divorce. He is also in control (right now) of their finances,etc.

I try to say as little as possible,but it is difficult (not to get caught up in their anger and hurt,especially when I have my own.) When do I need to step in from what I am trying to do: let go and let them deal with him on their own? Real life problems sometimes get in the way.

They are angry about the divorce but angrier at him and his behaviors and have refused to live with him since our separation. Now with this divorce he initiated, it is even easier for their dad to be irresponsible to us/them,especially fianacially....he is spending the money on craziness of all sorts (and he has it to spend).

I guess this is more of a vent than anything......it's very upsetting to me and as much as I try not to impact them, I know it does...and visa-versa. What's clear is no matter what age the "kids" are, it isn't easy for them...even if they know the reasons. Same way I feel about myself,too,I guess.

Honesty is the best policy.......no more information than they need but they need to know that they are not being lied to.JMO

LaTeeDa

Aw, Pick. I know what you mean. Mine are not as old as yours, but they express anger and hurt sometimes, too. This is actually a good thing, because for the longest time they would just stuff their feelings to try and keep the peace.

My counselor always reminds me that as a parent, it is my job to be there, listen, empathize with them. Give them an ear to listen and a shoulder to cry on if they need one. She also reminds me that while that is my job as a parent, it is not their job as a child to provide the same for me. I need to have friends and other support to help me deal with my issues. I know it must be difficult to draw that line when your children are adults themselves. It still seems like a good way to look at it, though.

JMO,

L

WantsOut

People are stronger than they get credit for.

Pick-a-name

Thanks for your kind and helpful words, LTD...glad to hear I'm working on the right path.

LIFEOUTTHERE

My children are young 2,4 & 5. I do not use the divorce word b/c I just think they are to young, but I have been very honest with them about what is going on. Even at the age they still have a little anger in them I think, my son, the 4 year old, does not even want to talk to his dad on the phone now. He told me that he wanted a new dad. What do you say to something like that?

Astro

My kids were 7 & 9 when my ex and I divorced. I was 2 months sober and 2 hours out of a mental hospital when I sat down with them and explained that even though I'd be moving out in a few days, I loved them just as much as I always did, and that I'd always be a part of their lives.

The first month away from them was hard, but it gradually got easier. That was two years ago, and I can honestly say that my kids and I have a more honest and loving relationship together than we ever did when I was married to their Mom.

My point here is that children are incredibly strong and resilient. They know where the love is coming from, and they understand that there's good beneath the pain. They also identify with truth and honesty from their parents, rather than the chaos they've become familiar with from being in a dysfunctional family.

Pick-a-name

Glad to hear that you and your kids are doing so well.

I guess the problem is that their dad SAYS things like that (but he is active in his disease and he denies he has a problem) and his actions do NOT match his words. Amoung everything else, it makes parenting and helping to guide them with good advice,etc next to impossible.

p.s. Glad to see recovery and repaired relationships can happen when you work at it.

Astro

My two best friends and single parents in recovery struggle with this also, but we've noticed that their children really identify with the parent in recovery. Maybe it's like that "it's a program of attraction", they want what we have. Seems to me like their children stick more with the parent who has peace and serenity.

Over_It

Hi Free,
You are doing the right thing by being honest with them *and* taking the high road. Their dad is part of them - if you badmouth their dad they may on some level feel shame about their origins. If they are educated about the poor choices he has made, eventually they will figure it out - kids are smart. I recently shared the situation with my 11 year old daughter and added that, since there are a few genes of alcoholism in her family tree, she would do well to stay away from addictive substances altogether in her life.

Kids can hopefully learn the lesson "if we chronically make poor choices, we don't get to live with our family and we get in trouble with the law," etc. They are old enough to understand a lot, though acceptance is another matter. Letting them know that both parents love them and these choices and consequences have nothing to do with them is helpful too.

My church has a thing called "Divorce Recovery Workshop" for people going through divorce, and they implemented another program for the kids called "Kids Caught in the Middle" that helps them work through emotions and also be around other kids in their same situation. There may be some community resources around your area too.

free2be

Thank you all, I have read all of your posts. I am the adult child of an alcoholic and I married one as well. Maybe, this is what scares me so much. For my girls especially, I am so torn as to what to tell them. My mother and father divorced because of my fathers drinking. I really don't remember to much. I don't ever remember seeing my father drunk. Maybe, this is why it came as such a shock to me. My father was always laughing and happy. he played with me, read to me and I loved him. This sudden divorce was blamed on this thing called "alcoholism" a sickness and disease. I had nothing to base this on. He didn't look sick. There wasn't any violence or odd behaviors that I noticed. For me, his identity suddenly went from my dad to "my dad the alcoholic". I became terrified of this "new sick alcoholic dad". I can still remember the pit in my stomach and the overwhelming feeling of fear and anxiety when he would call and want to speak to me. I didn't know what to say to my new dad so I wouldn't talk to him. Spend time with my new dad, no way, unless I was forced. I didnt hate him. I was afraid of him. My mother was always very honest with us, alcoholism is a disease and explained what it was, he loves you, it's not your fault. She forced me to go therapy and alateen (I hated it). I was still angry, I felt betrayed, embarressed, dirty and not worthy. This is what I am trying to avoid for my kids. Like me, they have never seen their father drunk (he always went MIA). So I do not need to explain a lot. I don't want the identity of their dad to change. So would it be fair to just say...... mommy and daady have tried very hard to live together but, we can't..... Mommy and daddy are still friends.... We love you very much and we are still a family.... even though your mommy and daddy do not live together. Eventually, as they get older they will know the truth, an in time everything always comes full circle.

best

Perfect.

Or rather then we can't.... "we" made a choice to not live together.

I think you have a good idea there and yes, over time, as they get older, they will find the truth or the whole truth can be shared.

free2be

thanks best.

Right know he is definatly not even close to being my friend I actually hate his guts.. Just reread and chuckled to myself. hehe

best

In our state, when there are children involved, they make the parents go to divorce school. Key points... not bad mouthing each other and knowing that some parents will play one against the other and even the children may try it as well. You are doing so good holding your feelings in. It will help your relationship with the kids in many ways.
I filed but we stopped it before it became final. Guess one good thing came out of filing... learned a few things in divorce school *LOL*

Astro

Divorcees in Arizona with children are also mandated by the state to attend a Parenting class. I attended in early sobriety, and left that 6 hour class with a better idea of how to be a good parent than I'd had in 9 years of drinking.

LaTeeDa

I just have to say that while holding some of your feelings in for your kids sake can be a good thing, you really need to be able to let them out somewhere. This place is great for that, but I have also found counseling and journaling to be immensely helpful. And my children are in counseling, too.

L