dayxday

Last week he said we should end our marriage. So I left Saturday morning, went to an alanon meeting and then went and spent the weekend with my mother.

I left him with a list of belongings & assets for him to review so we could complete the next set up paperwork for the legal separation. I came home Sunday and began packing more of my belongings. I let him know that I wanted to get the house ready to sell and I was going to start looking for an apartment.

Maybe that set off fear in him, maybe he is giving himself a reality check or maybe he is just trying to buy more time.

Now last night he wanted to explain to me what is going on in his mind. He says he doesn’t like AA because all he does is listen to other people’s problems. He wants to ask questions and that isn’t something you can do at AA so he feels like it is a waste of time. He said he realized he has been trying to change the way people feel and act (mostly referring to MIL) and is starting to realize that he should be trying to deal with the real “issues” with he and I. (his exact words, not mine) He said he still doesn’t want to drink and I am positive he IS NOT drinking now.

Today he says he doesn’t want to get a divorce but he knows I am unhappy with him and he doesn’t know how to fix it other than to let me go. He went to a counselor right after rehab and when he started AA (church pastor & counselor) that told him that even though he wasn’t drinking he was still behaving like an A and needed to work the 12 steps first and then come back and he would help him.

I do believe AA can help him but he has to do the work and it’s not up to me to push him on it. I also believe that so many of his triggers are from his family, the way they are now and the way he was raised. I can’t understand why the counselor wouldn’t talk to him about how to deal with his family & the related emotions, now that he doesn’t drink and they still do. I don’t want to “handle” his recovery, but should I suggest he try another counselor?

I feel like a yo-yo right now. I have never wanted a divorce but I don’t want to be told one minute, lets work pn this, I love you and the next minute we should divorce. After supporting him through all of this, it hurt to be told he wanted a divorce because things were not going the way he wants them to because I have refused to have anything to do with his "A" family. Personally I think he would do better if he stepped away from them too but that's his business not mine.

If he was drinking, I would leave in a heartbeat and not look back. But today I am in limbo land, I honestly don’t know if I am being manipulated again or not. I don’t know if I should give him more time to see if he “works” on his new found thoughts or if I should hold him accountable for the cruel words last week and keep on with my plans to complete our legal separation and move on.

Cynay

Ouch!

Boy do I know how that yoyo feeling is.... and it sucks.

I cant tell you what to do and to be honest Im not sure what I would do. In early soberity I was told that listening to them talk is pretty much like listening to them when they drank... quack, quack quack...

Maybe decide in your heart what you want to see happen for the relationship and put a time limit on it...say if ______ does not improve by this time, then I will take action. Its hard to know what to do because we are not use to dealing with there attitudes when they are sober.

As far as the councelor is concerned... Most will not work with someone who is in the mist of there addiction. Whatever they talk about or try to work on is a waste of time for both of them because they are too focused on themselves and have no humility to work with... it is still everyone elses fault... example hubby does not want to go to AA because they wont let him ask questions... therefore its a waste of time. He rejects because he is not open that his way is not working..... the same thing would happen in theraphy. Actually you should be thankful that they did not keep working with him and taking his money.

Nuudawn

Hmmm...he wants to end the marriage so you pack up and resign yourself to its ending....then he wants to work on it and you're in another tailspin. I just realized how much I am like that. I have always let others break up with me even when I'm the one who wants to break up. For whatever reason, it is deeply ingrained in me that it has to be what the other person wants rather than what I want. If they want me, I'll stay. If they don't, I'll go. Wow.

About your husband and AA, there is no instant fix. We alcoholics (I'm double winner) want our answers RFN. We have zero patience with anything. Yes, he can't ask questions right there in the meeting..but he can ask members things after and the whole sponsorship thing is about guidance and having someone to go to with questions and concerns. Your husband has made up his mind with alcoholic thinking. I'm not saying that AA is the only answer (tho it is for me)..but doesn't sound like he's given it much time.

parentrecovers

hello day, tough decisions. i'm thinking about you and sending strength and hope your way. blessings, k

dayxday

Thanks cnay for these thoughts. Now I have more questions.

If they are in sobriety are they still actively in the midst of their addiction?

I should probably know the answer to this – but I don’t. What exactly is humility with an alcoholic?

I was more thinking counseling as a way of focusing on himself –to learn why he can’t say what he feels or say no to his family, why he lets them berate him and never stands up for himself? These were things rehab pointed out as triggers to his drinking. Are these things that he can addressed at AA and he just isn’t working it?

I ask these questions because for me to make decisions on my path choice, I want to know if he is simply trying to take the easy way out or if I should be more patient while he sorts out the years of feelings he has suppressed and drank to hide from.

LaTeeDa

Here is my experience, for what it's worth. My husband got sober about 18 months ago. I had already kicked him out of the house and was certain we would be divorced. He also did not like AA, and chose individual counseling instead. AA is not for everyone, but self-destructive thinking and behaviors must be addressed somehow.

I've been seeing the same counselor almost as long as he has. About 9 months ago, we decided that we wanted to work on reconciliation, with the help of our counselor. So we added couple therapy to the mix.

Sadly, it hasn't worked out in reconciliation. In the process of each of us discovering and defining ourselves and what we want in life, we have discovered imcompatibilities that, as least right now, cannot be overcome.

I don't regret the effort and time I have spent working on this. I think I would have regretted simply throwing in the towel without trying all that we have tried.

I guess my point is that is doesn't sound like either of you really want divorce. So, if you are both willing to try and save the relationship, you owe it to yourselves to at least put in the effort. It may or may not have a happy ending, but you will never know if you don't give it a shot.

Best wishes to you.

L

Cynay

Well in recovery I had to stop being the victim and start understanding my part in all of this. It is quite humbling when I look at myself honestly and realize the hurt and damage I have cause.

Alcoholism is not just the action of drinking its also a mind set. That is why they say people have to work "some" type of a program to look at life differently and grow. Most alcoholics are selfish and always looking out for themselves.... how does a councler work with someone who is newly sober and is not ready/willing to be honest with themselves?

Nuudawn

Although sobriety is required for recovery, there is a whole bushel of other stuff that has to be addressed. For me, humility is about being open to knowledge, advice, support etc....it's about not thinking I have all the answers. My life in active alcoholism was completely ego driven where I reacted rather than acted. I suppose in the times I did act..it was somehow all about my own gratification of need.

Alcoholism affects the user and the family...so everyone needs recovery or counselling..some sort of support from others who can relate and identify with you. Your recovery will truly begin when you start addressing the reasons you ended up with an alcohol and how it has affected you. Yes, you need understanding and will naturally have questions regarding alcoholism...but there is nothing you can do about his lack of assertiveness with his family or others. That's his gig entirely.

I'm glad you said you are seeking answers in how to determine your path...that is truly what this is all about.

LaTeeDa

I would say that would be between the counselor and their client. Not for me to judge...................

L

Cynay

LaTeeDa this is only my experience with the counclers that I have personally worked with when trying theraphy with my Alcoholic Mother, Alcoholic ex-husband and ex-Alcoholic boyfriend... all three of them and I tryed theraphy and that was the bottom line to all three.

I should have made that clear in the first post. Im sorry.

LaTeeDa

And I should have been more clear as well. What I meant was that the judgement of whether someone is ready or willing to be honest with themselves is the counselor's to make, not mine..

L

dayxday

I guess I am looking for information to understand what recovering alcoholics are going through. Are his actions or inactions appropriate at this stage of sobriety?

The counseling came to mind because he had mentioned that in rehab he was able to talk about issues with his counselor and felt better talking 1 on 1 and getting feedback. So now another question comes to my mind. If counselors won’t work with someone in the midst of addiction – why do they provide counseling at rehab?

If he is a “work in progress” and is trying to work any program then I feel I should be more patient with him. I don’t want to walk away feeling like I didn’t try enough, by being more understanding of his recovery process and giving him time to work it through.

At the same time, my patience is thin, when he knows what he needs to do to deal with his issues but doesn’t take the initiative and then takes his frustrations out on me.

LaTeeDa

Maybe finding a counselor for yourself would be a step in the right direction. You seem to be focusing on what he needs to do to make this work. And you're questioning your feelings about it. You can't make him deal with his issues, but you can deal with yours and maybe come to some conclusions about how you want to proceed with your life.

Just my thoughts.

L

CatsPajamas

NO one here or at a meeting will tell you whether to stay in your marriage or to leave it. That is an incredibly personal, intimate and complicated decision that only you can make. The best we can do is to share our experience, strength and hope...

An old timer here (JT, I love ya wherever you are) used to say that she stayed married one day at a time. That makes a lot of sense when you think about it. Our recovery teaches us to try to remain in the present and not spend so much time "out there" awful-izing. Perhaps if you can allow yourself to make decisions one day at a time for awhile, things will become more clear. It sounds like you need some time to figure things out... and Time takes time.

Hugs and love
~Cat

harleygirl92156

Hi Dayxday,
I have to say, I KNOW WHAT YOU ARE GOING THROUGH AND HOW YOU FEEL!!! It sucks. When our A's go in to treatment and begin their recovery, we (for a short period of time) feel like we have the weight of the world lifted off our shoulders, THEN THEY COME HOME FROM TREATMENT AND REAL LIFE HITS IS RIGHT BETWEEN THE EYES!!

When my A went into treatment I expected a "new man" to come home from the treatment center. What I got in reality was someone who was angry, scared, SELFISH and confused, VERY confused! In a matter of weeks, due to revelations of his drinking years, I became more angry, scared and confused than I ever was when he was drinking. We are both strong willed individuals and that combination was like pouring gas on a fire. KABOOM!

I am not sure how (I give Al anon and aftercare a lot of credit) but I stuck it out and so did he. To this day I have no idea how other than the grace of God. For some reason it was His will that we remain together. We tried a lot of different things, but finally what worked for us was plain simple communication. We started talking, not about drinking or not drinking, about our relationship. We got a book called "Night Light" that you read together daily. It takes 20-30 minutes and there is a short reading and a couple questions for discussion at the end. It saved our marriage! Well that and the fact that regardless of what was going on between us or how we felt, we continued to go to Al anon and AA.

I was advised by several people in the program not to make any decisions about our marriage for the first year. I now know hubby was told the same thing. The first year was HELL and after it was over, I still wasn't sure, but I decided when and if the time came for me to leave, I would have no doubt so I continued to work on myself and we continued to struggle through.

Although my husband was not drinking, I can honestly say he did get truely SOBER for about 18 months. When true sobriety hits, you will know it, it is a wonderful thing to witness. I remember thinking I had already wasted 13 years of my life on this man, why on earth would I waste another year. Well, today I am glad I did.

Hubby has been sober just over two years and I thank God everyday I hung in there and waited for the miracle. The only thing I can say is if you truely love him and want the marriage and feel he is worth the effort sober, give it a little time. I don't know how long he has been sober, but don't expect major eye opening changes all at once. The changes come slowly and quietly and you have to make yourself aware so you can see them when they happen.

True sobriety is a miracle, if you walk away to soon, you will miss the miracle and it is wonderful thing to witness.

Sadly, some never work the program, some never find true sobriety and some just never get it. You are the only one that can make that judgement and know what is best for you. Listen to yourself, open yourself up and listen to God the answer will come to you, in time.

If you have the time and want to, go back and read my posts from day one to see where I was two years ago. It was not a pretty or happy place to be. Today, happy, healthy and very much in love with my RAH.

I love my husband and his name is Darrell.

God Bless you, I will keep you in my prayers. I wish you and your recovering A the best that God has to offer.
Good Luck

harleygirl92156

[QUOTE=CatsPajamas;An old timer here (JT, I love ya wherever you are) used to say that she stayed married one day at a time. That makes a lot of sense when you think about it. Our recovery teaches us to try to remain in the present and not spend so much time "out there" awful-izing. Perhaps if you can allow yourself to make decisions one day at a time for awhile, things will become more clear. It sounds like you need some time to figure things out... and Time takes time.

Hugs and love
~Cat[/QUOTE]

WONDERFUL, WONDERFUL ADVICE!!!!!!
THANK YOU

harleygirl92156

They are going through hell. The are feeling, something they haven't done for a long time and don't know how to deal with. When they don't know how to handle the feelings, they act out, isolate, and get defensive, VERY defensive.
His actions appear to be appropriate for his stage of sobriety......stages are different for every recovering alcoholic. Some stay in certain stages longer than others and some never get past certain stages. The key seems to be that they are working to grow and want to continue to grow. For my husband that was the key, the desire to grow.



That is entirely up to you. You are the only one that knows how much you can take.

To be blunt, and to the point but not wanting to make you mad or upset you, YOU NEED TO KEEP YOUR FINGERS OUT OF HIS RECOVERY AND CONCENTRATE ON YOUR OWN. That was very very hard for me to understand and DO, but once I did, things improved greatly.

The key here is "he knows what he needs to do to deal with his issues". Whether he does or not is up to him, you can't control his program and how he works it or how fast he works it. What you see on the surface may only be the tip of the ice berg of how he is working his program. Bottom line is hands off his program. Hands on your own program. Sorry, to be blunt, but you have to allow him to move through recovery in his own way and in his own time. If he isn't doing it fast enough for you, that is YOUR problem, not his.

Tallgrl230

I can't say what you AH is feeling when he wants a divorce or wants to stay together, but my husband has done the same thing. I believe my AH does it in an attempt to regain control of me. Each time he threatens to leave me I prepare for it and begin my own life. I used to fall apart and plead with him to love me, but I've learned this doesn't work! After he did this a few times, I actually began to grow more distant from him and prefer life on my own! You husband might be genuinely expressing his thoughts, but it's so incredibly difficult to figure out what alcoholics truly feel and what they are just using to manipulate us.
In the end, I'm starting to see the only way for me to be happy is to focus on what I want and need, then act on it. I am still in the "yo-yo" state of a deteriorating marriage, but I'm trying to get healthier mentally and I'm preparing to end our relationship if and when the time is right (IF that time does come).

Grasshopper

Hi,personally im still scratching my head on what the pastor and the counselor said,to come back--after--he has done the 12 steps.Of course he,s still behaving like an alcoholic.It takes time to heal,time to get out of the alcoholic fog.Took me a longgggggggggggg time,and folks helped me through it.Not told me to come back,after,the 12 steps..So,are these people saying that one needs to be --well--weller-- before coming to them?I always thought one would come to them for help,no matter what shape one was in.He is not drinking.Man im baffled.These good folks are trained to smell a rat.Meaning that if he startes giving them the bull,they would spot it,and call him on it.Oh well.Its not his family.Its not anything outside of himself,that causes alcoholism.its him.Lots of folks have gone through similar issues in their lives,and they remain non-alcoholic.He need to get to the root and causes.He can talk before/after the meetings and get a sponsor.Action----will help him.
My prayers are with you both.Keep on keeping on with your recovery.This is all that you really have control over.

Cynay

I believe what they are saying is not that he has to be well.... he has to be open.

I can not count how many therapist I have gone too. Most of them between the ages of 17 to 31. The issues that I faced were more from childhood then anything else. There were many that told me they could not help me ... of course this was after several meetings. They all had a list of reasons, but the common thread was.... Im not willing, open and honest. I wanted a fix but I was angry and the hurt went so deep that I could not open and be honest... I was not ready. Different programs and group counseling was recommended to help me become ready, but I did not want to share my secrets.

This is just a different point of view is all, I would have been wasting my money and there time until I was ready....



When I started