mallowcup

Well, in all fairness, as I am a medical professional, the triage going on is a factor. The ER is for acute medical emergencies. Those arriving by ambulance will be triaged first based on the severity fo symptoms. The staff will not abandon someone having a heart attach or someone arriving from a car accident, things like that. ERs are misused terribly. It really isn't their fault your mother won't go to the doc or the plan of care already determined, like medications and follow up at a treatment facility. I have been on the receiving end of families frustrations. Truth is if your mom would comply to any part of a plan of care, she would have less urgent care events. Ok, well , she won't. Have you ever asked the doctor to evaluate her as being incompetent? This is a process that removes her from the decision making process. The reason you can not get faster treatment in the ER is the same reason you can't talk to a human when you call about a bill or get waited on in a restraunt. Not enough staff. Once a person circles through enough time, they are remembered, these people are rude, insulting, sometimes drunk, and sometimes there are a few of these folks all complaining at the same time. They will get treatment but not before someone more acute. The folks in the ER can't do any more to change your moms disposition than you can. I get a little fired up about this too. If your mother has acute medical needs or broken bones, by all means you have a right to faster treatment. If she is triaged and it is determined she could have been seen in the office and has no life threatening considerations, she'll wait like everyone else. It is far from Ideal in the ER but just because someone is being a pain in the butt, they can't shove to the front of the line. That may work at home but not to a bunch of overworked and underpaid hospital staff. No one wants to see her suffer but no one is going to respond to a threat of walking out. If she is able to leave of her own accord, she isn't dying. Some are and the staff is not at liberty to share that information. If you go into an ER, you seldom see employees sittig around.

Zoey

jeri, I know how you feel, yes, some A's have other problems besides the alcohol.
Remember the old AA saying. "If you sober up a car thief, then you have a sober car thief" (Know you have heard it)

Yes, even that can be overcome, but they have to realize they want it.
If they are too far gone there is no way to realize they want a better life.
A few days in detox will not do it.

jeri, lots of hugs. we get so upset because we love them. love is the problem, we would have walked early on if it had not been for love.

hang in there girl. LV YA

Zoey

The Bible tells us to love unconditionally. Many places, then it warns many times about strong drink.
Proverbs discribes an alcoholic, they will utter perverse things. Then the Bible does not give a solution for it.

Proverbs chp 23, v-29 thu 35 KJV
just wanted to post that. What it has to do with the subject is beyond me. ??

mallowcup

I think it is our misinterpretation of what love is, what the true act of love is. It at least means acting in their best interest when they can't or won't, Leaving does not mean not loving. I know my husband will be held accountable for the way he runs his house and treats his wife, if I enable him, I am ultimately not loving him. I am helping creat a greater distance between him and me, him and God and him and a happy life. We love our toddlers but we smack their butt on occassion. We certainly love our teenagers but we don't say "yes" to them all the time. If I love you unconditionally, that may speak to me and my actions. If I love you unconditionally, I have to act in your best interest even if it hurts me. Even if it means setting myself apart from you. Some do not know the depth of this kind of love. Agape love.

embraced2000

.....i just get twisted sometimes thinking about it all.....it's like the devil takes over...smile....the bb also says some are sicker than others.

it's nearing valentine day....and i've had this huge lump in my throat off and on all day thinking of our other valentines days together.

the realization that he will, in all probability, never be in my life again, is sometimes more painful than i can handle at the moment, in spite of all the recovery i have.

love ya all

embraced2000

when i read over on the forum of substance abuse, and hear the parents stories of their children, i just can barely stand it.....those parents are so amazing. they have had to turn loose of their adult children, sometimes teen children.....can you imagine having to do that?????

i know how painful it has been for me to let my husband go......if it were one of my children......please, lord, don't ever let me have to know that.

well, i don't even know where i was going with this....but i'll throw it in the pot anyway.

mallowcup

It is hard to imagine and by reading it is very clear, these parents love their children very much.

embraced2000

yes, they love them dearly....and yet they have to love them enough to let them go. hardest thing in the world, i would imagine.

i'm sure i could never get through that one.....letting go of my husband just bout done me in....let alone one of my children.

mallowcup

I think that if and when the time comes when someone wants to recover, they will seek out those people who were stable, reasonable and sober. No one can drink and do drugs without many opportunities that could serve as their bottoming out. When you are at the bottom, there is no help in reaching out laterally, you reach upward.

wildeagle

Thanks for the reply, mallowcup. I didn't mean to come off on the offense, it's just so frustrating to finally get her to a point where she agrees to go in for treatment and then have her change her mind because it takes so long. In the past when she was on her binge cycle over and over again we have tried to get her committed, but it hasn't worked.

I do appreciate the perspective from your side though.

denny57

I was in the hospital last month; admitted through ER. I wasn't going anywhere until they made my pain go away. I think anyone who truly wanted treatment would wait days if it meant they'd feel better at the end of it. That was my experience. I understand your frustration.

mallowcup

There is no denying the state of most of our ERs. I have been humiliated bringing my own family to the ER of the hospital I work in. When we bring them to the ER, we bring a lot of frustration, It's exhausting to come that far finally and have them walk out or make a scene. This is why I recommend calling an ambulance. Patients have rights and some shouldn't be managing their own care. This is why I would take the time to meet with a doctor to begin the process evaluating competencey. There is going to be a time frame were she is competent and just a royal pain. That damned hospital and all the morons in it!!!!! Well, what can you say when their are shades of truth to what she says?

hope3

Come on wantsout get serious, nah, that’s no fun.

You vent girl...........I hear yah....

I think they called it a desease just so we can sit around
Soberrecovery and quote ama, cdc, ppp, ttt, ddd, aaa, and the tee hee hee. And………………………………………………………….
……………………………………………………………….
According to the niaaa.nih

¿Qué es el alcoholismo?
El alcoholismo, también conocido como dependencia del alcohol, es una enfermedad que incluye los siguientes cuatro síntomas:
Deseo insaciable: una gran necesidad o deseo compulsivo de beber alcohol.
Pérdida de control: la incapacidad de dejar de beber alcohol una vez que se haya comenzado.
Dependencia física: síndrome de abstinencia, con síntomas tales como náuseas, sudor, temblores y ansiedad, que ocurren cuando se deja de beber alcohol.
Tolerancia: la necesidad de beber cada vez más cantidad de alcohol a fin de sentirse eufórico.
Actualizado: Mayo 2002 Don't you agree.........

Butt......Really.......

quoted from “Under the Influence”
While psychological, cultural, and social factors definitely influence the alcoholics drinking patterns and behavior, they have no effect on whether or not he becomes alcoholic in the first place. Physiology. Not psychology, determines whether one drinker will become addicted to alcohol and another will not. The alcoholics enzymes. Hormones. Genes, and brain chemistry work together to create his abnormal and unfortunate reaction to alcohol. Discussions of the basic predisposing factors to alcoholism-abnormal metabolism, preference, heredity, prenatal influences, and ethic susceptibilities follow. (pg. 34-35 Under the Influence) You can read exerpts from the book in the stickys…….
That information surprised me!!!!!!!!!

But what surprised me more was in chap 8
“Getting the Alcoholic Into Treatment”
“Waiting for the alcoholic to realize he/she needs help is simply a mistake.”

Gee I always thought the alcoholic had to want help, you?

“No matter how fiercely the alcoholic fights those who want to help him stop drinking, he can be helped more often than not. Well over 50% of alcoholics being treated successfully were forced into treatment against their wills;” “anyone who hopes to help an alcoholic should follow five basic guidelines” (pg. 119).

Betty fords family did this process and it worked on her. Her family sat her down and outlined why they thought she had a drinking problem, their words were rehearsed.
Under the guidance of a physician and nurse from a successful treatment program, the family members prepared what they were going to say.

Mrs. Ford’s excuses, denials, anger, and tears were all expected, and the family knew how to use the confrontation to force her to a realization of her addiction.

The five basic guidlines

1. Learn about the disease. (there’s more to this than just the definition)
2. Avoid moral judgement. I KNOW YOU ALL ARE SAYING BLAH BLAH BLAH...read on....
3. Develop an emotional detachment. BUT WAIT IT GETS BETTER...
4. Pick a specific treatment program, the alcoholic’s best chances of recovery are with these things in place:
1. In-patient medical detoxification;
2. A 4 week minimum of in-patient care;
3. Educational programs which stress the physical basis of the disease and its role in causing psychological and social symptoms;
4. Intensive nutritional therapy and education;
5. Strong emphasis on A.A. for long term sobriety;
6. Thorough follow up care;
7. Involvement in the family in treatment and follow up care.*

5. Get Help (Doctors, family, drug counselor) more than one.

Then after all that “The Confrontation” and it must be worked out in advance….
Have everyone there........It's an ambush.....

Because if you think about it, "I doubt if any alcoholic ever wakes up, looks out the window, and says, "This would be a nice day to go for rehabilitation. I think I'll call the doctor." He may not see the gun, but some type of pressure-outside forces or his health motivates him. (Thomas Fleming)

wildeagle

I think I learned my lesson about using ambulances vs. waiting around for hours after this last exhausting and fruitless ER trip. Last time she was admitted to detox in the fall she called an ambulance, only because she was detoxing at home and freaking out and I told her to call 911 because I didn't know how fast I could get there. She got right into the ER though and the doctor saw her quickly. Of course, it took them forever to find an open bed in a detox facility, but at least they were able to give her the atavan(?) IV so she was somewhat knocked out.

Would you say that patients that come by ambulance will generally get treated faster than others, or are all the ER patients generally all in the same pool? I would reserve this option for a more severe situation anyway, but just wondering.

denny57

Don't know if you're kidding or not from the tone of your post, but I think the difference here is in need and want. Some people, when advised they need help, make the decision they want it. Others do not. No amount of telling someone they NEED it will make them WANT it.

embraced2000

i know i've said this before....but my xh has had intervention after intervention. has been in 25-30 treatments centers, rehabs, and half-way houses....he just ran from all of them and resented the hell outta everyone.

we just plain couldn't make him want the help.

mallowcup

I'm sure all hopstials have different policies. My thought on the ambulance is that she can't leave without a ride. Sure she can stomp out, she can call a cab, She would probably get medicated and she can't be discharged to her own care if she has received a sedative. They have to keep her unless someone comes and gets her. She could show up at the ER 100 times. If you begin the process of a competency eval and she is found incompetent, she can then say I'm leaving! and the hopsital can say, no, I'm sorry. They can't stop her and they can't deny her patient rights. An important thing to include is if she mentions hurting herself or someone else. She will have to stay for a psyc eval. I'd really start with a call to the doctor for guidance. I'd just say listen, she is driving us all crazy! Be honest and they will tell you how to take steps that lead somewhere.

hope3

Hi mr christian, lets have some venting........I mean fun.......

Where did you get information to back up any of this?

Or did you just think it, or feel it

Oohhh that hurts.......

Under the Influence" Based on scientific research.
MYTH:-Alcohol is an addictive drug, and anyone who drinks long and hard enough will become addicted.

REALITY:Alcohol is a selectively addictive drug; it is addictive for only a minority of its users, namely, alcholics. Most people can drink occasionally, daily, even heavily, without becoming addicted to alcohol. Others (alcoholics)will become addicted no matter how much they drink. (Pg. 12 UTI)

Again, Mr Christian ( bye the way, you are handsom) Where did you get this stuff? I don't have a train of thought, I do however have research and education enough to tell the difference between gut feelings and scientific data......

No I hope not all will agree, because then we would be living in myth-ville
instead of reality..........

God bless you Mr. Christian and best wishes, hope3.

embraced2000

hope3....hi ya.....i can't speak for mr c......but i can tell ya i'm having a real bad day with it all.

i do that....i can have a real good run and everything is ok....then, something will happen that brings it all back and i get po'ed all over again.

mine comes from loss. i'm angry that my xh is an alcoholic. i'm angry that he is not in my life and we don't have the life we used to have. i'm angry because of all the horrible things he did. i'm angry because i still love him.

crapola. it's just crapola. on days like this, i hold it against him that he doesn't get well. it may not be a fair way for me to feel, but damn, the hell we went through. it still can be so very raw at times.

embraced2000

it's about loss.....it's about knowing they are still out there killing themselves....it's about knowing we can't do anything to change it.

it's about a sad, sad loss.