mallowcup

I have also been very curious to explore alternative choices like native american medicine and hynosis. Acupunture? I know that inside every alcoholic is a glorified person, whole and happy. Has anyone had any exploration into some of these alternatives? They say we didn't cause it, we can't stop it or cure it. I agree to a point, I do feel there is a key that will never be discovered if we don't at least question a path that seems so unsuccessful. I mean to say there aren't a whole lot of us who come here to report victory. How about stem cell research? By the way embraced, I think you would be extremely interested to know that stem cell research has suggested theat diabetes would be completely obliterated by usig stem cells that would produce insulin in the pancreas. It is very interesting. It makes perfect sense to me. There is even evidence that a severed limb could actually be regenerated. Awesome! It just seems like there are some very exciting alternatives to explore and that is so important. Being excited instead of resigned to the existing treatments.

mallowcup

I think it is important to say that it may be wise to realize we can't fix a person, I think it is intelligent to consider that we can have a look at the disease and search for a cure. We'd be in alot of trouble if one nut hadn't decided that polio could be cured.

Missy

This is the best thread I've read in a long time... No book is written on how Alcholics are, but there might as well be a manual.
Anyway,, it is a healing in itself to us that we are NOT ALONE and our "A"'s are not alone in what they do.
thanks for this thread start Mallowcup!!

Missy xo

hezzie

I too have a hard time with the "disease" part of alcoholism. I am more inclined to compare it to a mental health problem. Needing to drink to (fill in the blank) is an example of an unhealthy coping mechanism.

Fix the defect in one's ability to function in a healthy state of mind and you're more than half way there.

AllTooSober

Frankly I don't care if it's the disease talking or just the man. It's up to me not to subject myself to that kind of talk either by removing myself from the room or the house, or if need be, the relationship. It's just as intolerable no matter why he says what he says.

mallowcup

True to a degree. Our parents can suffer from alzheimers or dementia and act completely inappropriately. We have discovered that drugs like Aricept corrects this in many many cases. I guess it's just my curious nature and thinking outside the box that allows me step away if ned be but continue searching the intellectual and spiritual side of a cure. Not a management, or building up a tolerance, but a cure. Why can't there be a cure? ADHD brings about intolerable behavior and we used to lock these kids up as dicipline problems. They did not have the ability to bring their behavior into acceptable perameters. With medication, their blurred focus comes into focus. All I'm saying is why not? I suppose it depends on what our foundational beliefs are to begin with. We keep treating the behavior just like we used to do with ADHD. You can use a cattle prod to condition anyone. There is something biolgically wrong that effects coping and thinking, I feel quite certain of it. Have you seen the surgical procedure now being done to stimulate the part of the brain that effects affect like severe depression> Just by touching this part of the brain, while awake in surgery a servely depressed patient has been known to change their entire demeanor and burst out laughing. I'm not making this stuff up. Ha! Don't blame me when I become rich and famous for curing alcoholism.

embraced2000

i think we all agree with that statement, alltoosober. that is why many of us have had to leave our alcoholics, or make other arrangements to minimize our time around them.

i think the evidence is staring our culture right in the face, that detox, then rehab, then a recovery program do not work. the recovery rate is 1 in 10, i think i quoted that correctly.....anyway, like denny and mallow, i too, think we are on the frontier of our knowlege of addictions, alcoholism, and other maladies in the form of substance abuses.

i've often pondered if alcoholism is a man-made disease. when i reflect upon generations past.....long before alcohol was mass produced, long before biblical times....at the beginning of the human race....did these type of addictive personalities exist then? and what were they addicted to since there was no industry of any sort....they just had to live off the land and their wits. perhaps they were so busy trying to just survive, that only the fittest survived. and that, folks, would be us. and look what we have done with it.

anyway, i still believe one part of the equation is that the societal judgments of the actions of the alcoholic make it extremely difficult for the person to overcome the shame they feel.

if anyone has ever had a fall from grace, and had to totally restructure your life in the face of adversity, judgments, and ill-wishers, you will know what i am speaking of. it takes tremendous stamina, spirituality, and strong connection with self to emerge from it with grace and integrity.

imagine being an alcoholic and trying to do the same.

this thread has been inspiring, thought provoking, and awesome.

thanks!

mallowcup

I was skimming through an old old medical book from the mid 1800's. You'd have loved to have been treated back then! One section was all about the adminstration of kerosene enemas, another whole page was devoted to the incurable conditon of hysteria. It said, women tend to have cyclic episodes of hysteria around their menstral cycle and if they become unmanageable, they should be either institutionalized or locked in a room.

denny57

I believe this is where we are with understanding addiction - every expert I've sat and listened to or read pretty much says there is so much we don't understand. We have a lot of facts, but hit and miss application of solutions. The debates rage on and thousands upon thousands lose their lives to it and millions are affected.

mallowcup

I work with two highly respected Pediatricians that are married to each other. they are known for taking on the most complicated cases. They have two adult sons. The oldest, an academic who obviously came from a pretty intelligent gene pool. He had his PhD in something. The younger son had nothing but trouble in school, he was always in trouble for not paying attention, being easily distracted. He had an interest in art. He fell frthr and further behind. His mother wouldn't allow him to play sports because he was failing, he was good at sports. He quit school. His parents were discusted. He had one unkilled job after the next but didn't do well at that either. As a young man he finally had some kind of breakdown sobbing and suicidal. He was seen for the first time by a psychiatrist. The Psychiatrist said he was a glaring case of ADHD that had never been diagnosed. Well, here was this renound Female Pediatrician crying her eyes out. She missed it in her own kid. She said she remembers how many times she yelled at him, punished him, took away things he was good at and enjoyed, the things that made him feel good about himself. We can miss it, even when we are smart. I think we are missing it. Established treatments have us thinking of success with in the box. We have to take what is available and make some kind of success out of it. It's all there is. Well, what if we set all that aside and have another look. In the past we have been so dismissive, so sure and so wrong. Two very good examples are movies you should see. Lorenzos Oil and Something that the Lord Made.

denny57

Lorenzo's Oil is in my top 10. I agree Mallow, time for outside the box- and there are those who are trying.

FormerDoormat

This is by far one of the best, most informative, most comprehensive, most sensitive, and most civil debates we've ever had on this forum on whether alcoholism is a disease or not. I think it would make an excellent sticky. This is the Friends & Family forum and its members at their very best.

There are so many different points of view shared here--all of them valid--and so much to think about. I stand in awe of all of you who have contributed to this thread, and I'm proud to be a member of this group.

mallowcup

We are just a think tank with many heads. Really , there is alot of experience here.

DesertEyes

Done stickied, it's in the "Classic reading" section, at the bottom.

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...c-reading.html

Mike

Godhelpme

The controversy about whether or not it's a disease is always interesting.

For many years I semi-believed alcoholism infact is a disease. Believing such also kept me stuck here because afterall, if he had any other disease, would I bail on him? My answer was always 'no'. I didn't want to contribute to the 'throw-away' society we often live in, whereby if someone is "too" sick, we toss them out. Besides, I loved him....saw the good in him, and believed it was my responsibility as the one who witnessed the devastation and as his wife to ensure he got the help he needed.

Fast forward years of living in the insanity of his active alcoholism and I decided it was a disease alright, but one of choice. At least a "choice" early on in the disease process.

Now I simply just don't care if it is or isn't a disease by the standards of AMA or anyone else.

What I care about now is my own survival. If the Titanic were sinking and someone offered me a life-boat, would I say "Nahh, I think I'll stay!"? Well, that's exactly what I did for decades.

Now I want on the life-boat. Somebody throw me a line!!!

~GHM

HolyQow

I compare the moods of alcoholism to diabetes also, but not the disease itself. My daughter is Type 1 and has been for eight years. There are days that I say "go test because if you are not over 300 right this minute, or under 50, then you are in sooooo much trouble! She can be incredibly nasty, and moody, and she is a teenage girl.....

I look at alcoholism as an alergy. If it were a disease, then everyone drinking it would become an alcoholic. If only some of the people get addicted, then it's how their body processes it that is slightly different. It's a reaction to something that one puts in their body.....the same as those that can't eat peanuts, or those that can't be around cats. It effect everyone differently.

I also try to remember that there are different stages, because my AH was not beligerant in the beginning. He was a "happy" drunk. Now he is a mean one.

TexasGirl

I couldn't agree more. Thanks for sharing.

jaimemk

I am sooooo glad y'all told me to read the stickies! This is helping me so much! I can relate to so much of it. Things are just gettin' clearer and clearer. I know I have quite a road ahead, but I'm not going to dread it. I'm glad for this forum and that my life really does contain a lot of beauty. Good food, good friends, awesome kids, good music, etc. This chapter doesn't define my whole life, but I know I'm going to learn from it. Thank you all so much for sharing your wisdom!

Jadmack25

Kindred Spirit,
I love reading, and go thru a lot of books each week. I love juicy murder mysteries, but up to now anyway, not even Agatha Christie has made me feel I could abuse, bash, throttle, stab, shoot or poison anybody; not even my abf when he was at his worst.

Comparing drinking alcohol with reading a book is way off the compass, and I call it QUACKING.

tallulah

What a great thread

I can see how dependence is a disorder of the brain, and is as much a disorder of the brain as any other neurological or psychiatric illness. I can see how alcoholism is a 'disease' in that respect.

However...

In my experience it is used as a handy label to attach to generally bad behaviour. Not only by the alcoholic but also those closest to them and third parties.

My ex has done some appalling things and used his alcoholism as an excuse. I have used his alcoholism as an excuse because I didn't want to believe this person that I loved could just be a horrible person. And, even though they know my story, I have even heard other Al-Anon memebrs say 'we must feel compassion for him because he is an alcoholic'.

No. I can feel compassion for someone struggling with the disease of alcoholism. I can forgive someone's trespasses against me. But there has to come a time when the excuses have to stop and responsibility is taken for the human being by the human being.

My ex was not drinking when he made my life a misery by playing mind games and manipulations. My ex was not drinking when he sucked my life dry. My ex was not drinking when he put me in the Hospital. Other people are no doubt saying 'there, there' and making excuses for him because he is an alcoholic and wet or dry will always be one.

I've woken up. You can take the rum out of a fruitcake but you still have a fruitcake. Sums my situation up to a T.