newenglandgirl

Hi all -

So my AH has been locked up in his apartment (I left to stay with family almost 2 weeks ago) for almost a week now just drinking. He's missed a lot of work. Before he starts drinking (early mornings) he will sometimes call me and sound remorseful, scared, and confident that he's going to "fix it" (the problem). By the afternoon, he's an incoherent mess. Totally irrational. Swings between anger, sadness, begging, yelling, etc, etc. You guys know the routine.

My question:

Is he CHOOSING to pick up that drink everyday? Or is it out of his control at this point? I'm having a hard time understanding why the addict chooses to stay in such a painful place. Does getting high feel that good? He never seems to enjoy himself, so I can't figure out what the incentive to pick up the booze is - as opposed to feeling desperate and reaching out for help.

I read in Under the Influence that the A's biochemistry changes and they can't "function" without alcohol.

What I can't understand is why they don't want this vicious cycle to end? I probably sound really naive, I know.

I just don't know if my AH is even capable of making rational decisions anymore. If that is the case, do I just leave him to rot in his sickness?

If they have to want to want help, doesn't that mean that they have to be thinking rationally at some point? What if this doesn't happen anymore?

appleblaster

hey girl
you do not sound naive....you sound like someone deeply involved with an alcoholic. you're confused....i've felt confused so many times even when I knew better. I've had to leave my exabf in his apartment without knowing if he would live or die. He said to me later that there was absolutely nothing I could have done to help. At the time he did not want help.

You want the vicious cycle to end....he may not even realize the danger he's in anymore. It is logical that someone who is very sick would want to get better....but alcoholics do not think with a logical mind. Reason and logic do not exist except when twisted to meet their needs. On the other side we do the same thing, my friend.....only upper hand we may have on them is the physical health of our brain not being toxic from alcohol/chemicals.

I'm both humbled and awed when I read posts that so closely resemble things i've been through with my exabf. It doesn't seem natural and it hurts a LOT to leave someone to their own devices but really there is nothing you can do. If he's forced into rehab, he will only play the part long enough to get out then use again. It has to be his choice. I think you already know that.

Your question was is he choosing to pick up a drink and stay in his sickness. I've been told that alcoholics have 3 choices: recovery, jail or death. Death and jail are definitely bottoms. Only one choice left. What do you think?

Hugs to you girlie....you are not alone. : )

LiLL

newenglandgirl, i don't have the answer, but i've seen the same behavior in my AH a million times. he can feel totally remorseful for a while, and then all of a sudden, his thinking changes and he's so desparate to go out to get another drink.

i imagine that his deasese/monster is talking to him again. and "it" is really good at controlling him. i don't know, maybe the compulsion to drink is just too strong. we co-dependents have those moments too, when we just can't stop ourselves from getting upset or emotional or manupulative even though we know it's not right.

you asked why they don't want this vicious cycle to end? i think it's for the same reason that some of us we don't want to leave our AH. only when it hurts enough we'll give up.

you know what? sometimes i'm not even sure if all those remorseful acts are just a way of my AH to get me hooked, you konw, to give me the false hope to keep me staying.

anyway, i think analyzing too much about an A's thinking is really a futile effort. it only drives us crazy and make us mad.

GlassPrisoner

I wanted to quit. I really did. I couldn't. The physical withdraws would start between 4-6 hours after my last drink. I had to keep my BAL at a constant level while awake, or I'd "crash" and all Hell would break loose. I'd wake every morning about 3:30 AM after the booze was out of my system, take a drink, and start the day.

I went to de-tox twice, and "self de-toxed" several times. At each attempt, the withdraw became progressively worse. What I would go through is in this thread http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...9-post280.html

I lost my job, my house, my marriage, my self respect , my children and a good portion of my health. I'd pray every night to God to kill me in my sleep. Death was a lot closer, I realize now, than I thought.

It was only after I hit my personal bottom, that I walked (literally, I had no working transportation) into the rooms of AA. I now have 85 days sober. More than I've had in a decade. I am convinced that it was only the grace of God that arranged these circumstances so that I could finally recover, and help others.

So, no, we are not having fun. We have to drink. We may realize we need help, but the double wammy of the physical addiction and the loss of rational thinking dooms a lot of us.

I'm sorry you have to watch someone you love go through this.

BigGirlPanties

said perfectly.

which is why we need to take hands off the alcoholic and let God leave his own fingerprints.

newenglandgirl

Thank you everyone for your support. I learn so much here.

Lill you say:

"we co-dependents have those moments too, when we just can't stop ourselves from getting upset or emotional or manupulative even though we know it's not right."

Ok, but isn't caring and worrying over a loved one who is going insane just basic human nature?

BigGirlPanties

Caring yes, worrying yes.

Obsessing until it destroys your own life, health, mental stability, emotional capacity.

No friggin way.

lilac

(((NewEnglandGirl)))) Obsessing is where we cross the line that begins to harm us........

nicole85

Newenglandgirl, your story reminds me alot of my situation with my A fiance, although to a lessor degree. He's managed, in the year I've known him, to not start drinking until after 8pm and usually goes to bed between 12-1am. So it's getting less. But so often when he drinks, he gets so depressed about life, so cynical and miserable. When he's sober during the day he's happy and fun. I often asked myself those same questions, "Why in the world does he want to drink when it literally makes him miserable?" When I asked him this question WHILE he was drinking, he said he's always this cynical and miserable during the day, the beer just lets him release it. When asked him sober, he said it "takes the edge off" a long hard day and that's he's really "not depressed" when he's drinking or in life in general.. I just misunderstand him. Well of course that could be easy enough considering he talks nonsense most of the time when he's drunk.

But anyway, after hearing the account of what it felt like to need the alcohol I suppose I understand more. From your experience, does it get better after you quit? I mean in the sense that, right now he thinks the beer relaxes him. Will he eventually realize through recovery that it was all an illusion? I know he'll always be recovering and always fighting against this, but will he reach a point when he fully and completely understands that the beer was what was CAUSING the stress, not fixing it?

newenglandgirl

Nicole85,
Yup, sounds like a very familiar situation! (Sorry that you too have to deal with this bullsh*t). I hope that you are considering very seriously not going through with marrying this guy. I was "blind" before I married my AH. I knew there were some red flags, but I believed every word he said about having his drinking completely under control. Is your AF wanting recovery? Gee whiz girl, I so do wish I had your kind of awareness BEFORE I took the plunge. Good for you for really taking a look at things. Not easy.

I wouldn't know about the quitting alcohol thing you ask about...at least not personally...and my AH has never tried to quit for longer that 24 hrs. From what I read here (and in the alcoholism forum) the craving is always there in one way or another. And is like a shadow that follows the addict.

My AH talks frequently about how sick he is of drinking (as he pounds hard liquor). The addiction is mind boggling...especially for a non-alcoholic like myself. I just don't get it. I smoke, so I try to think about in relation to that sometimes. It's a really different addiction (smoking doesn't make me miss work, act like an a-hole, etc etc) but it IS an addiction that I "protect". I also know for a fact that if I was faced with losing my husband over smoking, that I would choose my husband. Ok, I'm rambling...sorry!

nicole85

I suppose the whole question as to whether I plan on marrying him is going to be up to what transpires over the next year and a half. I'm still in college and we decided (regardless of the drinking) that we wouldn't make any plans until after I graduate next spring. If he can truly change over that time span I probably will marry him. It might sound foolish, but I know there is a great guy in him that's changed my entire world.. I, myself, have had many terrible things in my life (abusive relationships, sexual abuse, etc) and finding him has been a godsend in many ways. The fact that I've been able to have so many more sober moments with him gives me hope that he can be that person all the time, and his nightly ritual and addiction can fade away if he works at it (which at this point I believe he will)... I will stick by him through recovery because that is what I want... But if time passes and he stops trying, than I know I'll have to look out for myself and reevalute my situation..

I also know what you mean about smoking.. We both smoke and awhile back (before he got serious about recovery) he had the nerve to compare the two! Although, yes, smoking is bad for the both of us, like you said, it doesn't disrupt our lives and doesn't truly harm those around us (yes I know, second hand smoke, but you get the idea). I also know what withdrawal from smoking does to me, but I also know that if I never had another I would be just fine.. A week or so of being frustrated about it and then I'd move on..

newenglandgirl

Good luck with everything Nicole. And congratulations on almost being a college graduate. That's no small feat! Beware in the future, after he has quit...he may start drinking again from time to time saying that he is "cured" and can control the drinking...watch for the exuses he might make. Don't fool yourself like I did. I look back now on all the "good" times my AH and I had partying and feel physically ill...I didn't know that he was an alcoholic back then...I didn't even know what one "looked" like. I feel terrible now that I drank with him when he was sick all along. You seem to be very in touch with yourself and reality, for that matter. He is lucky to have you want to stick by him through his recovery. But make sure to take care of numero uno (you!). This is your life we're talking about. Have you read the sticky about "potential"? It was very educational and eye-opening for me. Let me know if you can't find it.

denny57

No, it's learned behavior and when it is destroying me - when I choose to sacrifice my own well-being to someone else's addiction - it is my own insanity.

There is such a beast as loving detachment. Under the Influence is an excellent start to understanding alcoholism's physiology. There is a lot of other information out there - educating myself as much as possible, including attending lectures on addiction, really helped me understand. Some of it I now accept on faith - I have not been addicted so I will never truly know what it feels like.

Take care.

vujade

I read somewhere that for an A, taking a drink is actually an act of taking control. They feel totally out-of-control of their lives and their surroundings, oftentimes a partner is doing everything they can to control them...taking a drink is the one thing THEY can control. They may not even do it consciously. But the story I read was that of an A man who said he felt ultimate relief not WHEN he drank...but when he made the DECISION to drink. He felt in control of SOMETHING.

I thought it was an intersting perspective and maybe quite valid. I would imagine it applies more to those who do not yet have a physical dependency on alcohol. Once they reach that point, it really could be a viscous combination of both.

And (((((to you))))). I have wondered the same things myself so many times. It's maddening at times, isn't it?

newenglandgirl

wow SKW - I never would have ever thought of that. Good food for thought. Thanks.
I can see my AH feeling like that.
He rants often about feeling the pressures.
Hey, but don't we all!

steve11694

Their rationalizations, intellectualizations as well as delusions can be VERY REAL for them. It is amazing indeed the things they can invent.

When the consequential pain exceeds the perceived pleasure, thay may seek recovery. some never do and go crazy or die.

Nuudawn

As a recovering alcoholic with less than 7 weeks sober, I highly doubt I am yet "thinking normally". No there is no rationale, there is no consciousness really...in active alcoholism you are simply spinning in a mire of your own fog and selfishness. You can see little outside of yourself. Most mornings I still wake up and shake my head and what I did not see when drinking. In early recovery, it can be very scary and depressing to look at my alcoholic choices over the last 20 years. Quite simply, it was madness...absolute madness.