Can't sleep, my mind is ready to throw up!

Old 12-24-2006, 04:48 AM
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Can't sleep, my mind is ready to throw up!

It’s been since 3 am, and I can’t sleep. So many thing on my mind and I suddenly woke. Now with my head going I’m wide-awake.

I feel better as far as my head goes, but I do admit as far as the heart goes I’m still feeling crappy about “T”.

It does not seem right you know. I did things by the book with this one and I was very good to her.
We talk about being in healthy or unhealthy relationships here all the time.
Should we define this?
Is any relationship that goes wrong then deemed unhealthy?

What is healthy?

It seems anyone around my age has more then an overnight bag of baggage.
And it seems that other stuff comes out later.

I’ve been out with younger girls. Good lord 20 years younger and they all come up to me.
They have less stuff that has happened to them but hell; they don’t understand life at all.


I seem to devote myself to a woman once I’m with her, and I wonder if that is good at this time in our world.

It seems a lot of women I meet want sex with no strings because of their busy life with either work, kids or both.
Funny how we have set them up to be males huh?
I guess when you change some things in the world other things follow and there are prices to pay along the way.

I’m sorry if that sounds chauvinistic, but when women say chivalry is dead I just assume women’s lib killed it.

I know that statement will rub some of you the wrong way and there might be calls to Sir Hillary about it but I’ve seen the change throughout the years of male Vs female roles and it’s not all that great.


It’s funny I opened the door for a woman the other day and she looked at me and said, “ What do I look helpless?”

I thought to myself, no but you will with my boot up your butt.

I guess a there are far extremes to everything.
Bitter people out there for one reason or another. Ok call me4 bitter so then I’ll fit in.

It’s funny I was thinking of when I was a kid. I met a girl in school and I picked flowers for her.
We would sit together and hold hands and she actually wore a dress and looked like a girl.

I would call her and we would go places together, but then she moved.
I just remember that it seems so much easier, it was simple. No past to fog up ones head.

But now I’m here, babbling on a web site about love lost and looking at life in a whole different view.

I miss romance. I miss the time when you would write a letter to a girl to express love and she would cherish it .

I remember being to shy at time when I saw a girl at school and I would watch her from the lunch tables as she ate.

Today I’d be doing 5 to 10 for stalking if I did that.


It’s a mad world now and not everything seems fantastic.
So I ask one more time.
How do we know what’s healthy?
What’s normal anymore?

How we find that person that is not afraid to love and feel?

How do I find that girl that will sit and hold my hand?


Ok got that all out, I feel somewhat better....
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Old 12-24-2006, 05:05 AM
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mr c..

you are really throwing yourself into the ole chit bucket today, darlin!!!

i understand tho,....i do it quite often myself.

ok....here's my question.....from the looks of your pic on your profile, you are a gorgeous man....that is the hook that will draw the initial attention from a member of the opposite sex that you are seeking.

ok, so you got your hook,.....now, what kind of bait are you using???? by bait i mean.....expectations, personality, healthy mentality.

a young man with your looks should be drawing so many women....with selective culling, you should still have dozens to choose from.

what isn't working??? sure, we all have what you call baggage....it is impossible to live any length of time and not have baggage....i prefer to call it experience....ta ta ta.

i don't have much time right now....gotta work for a while.....you better fasten yer seat belt on this one lovey.....yer gonna get it big time....lololo....said with kindness and affection for our mr. c........

love to you
jeri
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Old 12-24-2006, 05:08 AM
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Do I look helpless? That's rude. Thank You would have taken less energy. Ignorant people attempt to replace class with brass and it just makes them look stupid. Sometimes it never occurs to some people that you can set baggage down and leave it right there. You are one man looking for one woman, if you were in outer space looking back at the world, that doesn't seem like anything so impossible. Your baggage is not junk, your baggage is wisdom. You have not aquired junk, you have become wiser and it's tougher to find someone special because you are no longer willing to settle. The best is yet to come.
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Old 12-24-2006, 05:12 AM
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Yeah I know I'll get it big time.


Thank you by the way...
I guess I need to throw out the hook at different places also.
I sometimes get in the habit of oing to the same places and doing the same things.

It is a fact that I do have a few that are after me so to speak. But Im always drawn so it seems to the bad one.

Gee where have we heard that before?

So i've heard in meetings that when we do that our "picker" is broken.

When I heard that one , I took a look and it looked ok, but I guess it needs work.
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Old 12-24-2006, 05:21 AM
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my picker is broke, too, mr c.

through counseling, i have learned that the chaos in my childhood....i know, i know...grooooaaannn....set a standard that is deeply ingrained in my psyche....i keep reaching out for the familiarity that was defined early on in my mind.....the challenge now is to redirect my thinking and re-define my standard of what a relationship needs to be for me to live mentally healthy.

a huge, enormous task. one that somedays i wish i could just march straight into hell, rather than drag it all outta the closet and shine a light on the ugly truths.

i, too, am attracted to the ones that are bad for me....they really turn me on, so to speak. a nice guy?????......ooohhh, he is just way to normal, and boring, and dull. that is very sick on my part....and i'm working on it with help.

so why are we attracted to the ones that we know, on a subconcious level, will repeat the familiar feelings of yuckiness???? it's just too big. too big.

jeri
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Old 12-24-2006, 05:41 AM
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Originally Posted by embraced2000 View Post

...i have learned that the chaos in my childhood.....set a standard that is deeply ingrained in my psyche....i keep reaching out for the familiarity that was defined early on in my mind.....the challenge now is to redirect my thinking and re-define my standard of what a relationship needs to be for me to live mentally healthy.
I've recently found that to be true of myself as well. At least half the battle has been won. We are aware of what we have done in the past, and why!

[QUOTE=embraced2000;1147769]i, too, am attracted to the ones that are bad for me....they really turn me on, so to speak. a nice guy??? ......ooohhh, he is just way to normal, and boring, and dull...QUOTE]

Jeri, you make me laugh, but what you say is so true (for me anyway).

Mr. C., I'm at the point where I'm just not ready for another relationship yet. I look at it this way, I've spent half my life being miserable with the poor choices I've made. The last half of my life I've resigned myself to accept that I will have no one in my life, or at least I'm not working towards that. I'd much rather learn to make myself happy. I've grown tired of wanting things from people that for one reason or another, they are just not capable of giving me. It doesn't make them bad people, it just makes them not right for me. So, if I want these things badly enough, and I do, I'm learning to give them to myself. Self love, self respect, honoring myself.....I truly believe this is what my HP wants me to learn to do. Going to the hardware store for bread just doesn't work. Neither does looking for love and respect from someone who is incapable of giving them based on what my needs are.

'Maybe'????? in time, while treating myself the way I want to be treated, I will be healthy enough to both 'attract' AND 'be attracted to' the sort of person that will give me what I want, and I'll be ready enough to receive it. Or have I just deluded myself into believing another fantasy? I guess time will tell.
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Old 12-24-2006, 05:59 AM
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I think this is true of alcoholics too

Originally Posted by embraced2000 View Post
my picker is broke, too, mr c.

through counseling, i have learned that the chaos in my childhood....i know, i know...grooooaaannn....set a standard that is deeply ingrained in my psyche....i keep reaching out for the familiarity that was defined early on in my mind.....the challenge now is to redirect my thinking and re-define my standard of what a relationship needs to be for me to live mentally healthy.

a huge, enormous task. one that somedays i wish i could just march straight into hell, rather than drag it all outta the closet and shine a light on the ugly truths.

i, too, am attracted to the ones that are bad for me....they really turn me on, so to speak. a nice guy?????......ooohhh, he is just way to normal, and boring, and dull. that is very sick on my part....and i'm working on it with help.

so why are we attracted to the ones that we know, on a subconcious level, will repeat the familiar feelings of yuckiness???? it's just too big. too big.

jeri

Some of us are on one side of the fence and some on the other. Alcoholic and codependent, the mirror image of the same problem, hooked up to the familiar in an effort to be normal and survive. There was a time when neither side had a choice as children. Codependency saved my life as a child. We learn to enable as children because there are no other choices, by adulthood, we have become masters.
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Old 12-24-2006, 06:17 AM
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amen....mallow....amen

love to you
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Old 12-24-2006, 06:21 AM
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I guess it is where I take pause at times and do feel some degree of offense when I am accused of being an enabler, a codependent, I survived. As a child it was the only way. It is our difficulty as adults to abandon the only thing that once saved us....because it's wrong. As a child you better keep your mouth shut, you better not make waves, you better not say one word about your mom or dad being drunk. You better just shut up and do what ever they tell you to do. It was never enough but it was all you could do. We did not become enablers out of weakness, we became enablers out of a desire to survive. It was really very necessary. It was never a weakness. It was a strength, it wasn't the easy way, it was the only way. It takes a great deal of intelligence and self control to find a way to live that way. I've never heard anyone say that before.
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Old 12-24-2006, 07:06 AM
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i reckon since we learned to survive as a child by being codependant, it would be natural to carry that into adulthood....how could we possibly know any different???

in the adult world, there are so many occupations that codependants excel in....caregiving roles such as docs, nurses, therapists, teachers,to mention a few....and that is a good thing.

being enabling and codepedant with an active alcoholic just about killed me, tho. because, i guess, that is the fuel they need for their disease to thrive and thrive well, but it was the fuel that bout burned me alive. so it is complex....just too big.

i used to, and still do sometimes, take somewhat offense at being felt like being codependant was my fault....so i learned to think of it differently....like you said....it helped me survive....it was a critical survival tool in childhood.

as an adult, i now know i have a choice to react differently...but dang....it's part of my fabric....how do i go about changing the pattern, or the type of material i am made of....just too big, i'm tellin ya.

mr. c.......these are all the things that i constantly am dealing with.....trying to reconstruct myself, so that i don't repeat, yet once again, a hurtful place for me to be in. i was raised with leave it to beaver, andy griffith show, donna reed show.....that is what i wanted, but it wasn't like my life as a child at all......i carried that through into adulthood......

love to all
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Old 12-24-2006, 07:16 AM
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- I try to look at my childhood, see things I might have missed or done.
Besides being the ex-husband of an alcoholic, both my Mom and Grandmother are alcoholics.
But what I’m looking for is why I’m attracted to that dangerous girl who seems to be emotionally unobtainable.

I look back at one thing though and all of you will laugh at this one.
Lady “T” , and both of my ex wives were all met at the same type of place, A BAR.

Think I need to stick that bait into a new pond.
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Old 12-24-2006, 07:16 AM
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Mr C? See you there?
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Old 12-24-2006, 07:33 AM
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mr.c.....could it be possible that since your mom and g'ma were both alcoholics, that you, also are reaching out for the familiar????

when i look back in my childhood, i can see that i keep re-creating the same atmosphere over and over for myself in adulthood....

oh my gawwwddd.....i married my mother.....really, i did. ewwwwwww!!!!!!
i married men that were just as chaotic as she was.....sorry mama, i love you....and i was always trying to fix things with them just like i did as a child for her. i had a job long before i was ever born....and that was to give a teenage girl something to love. she just didn't know i would want to eat, and poop, and would grow, and would cry and throw fits....you know....all the good stuff. she couldn't put me up on a shelf and play with me when she wanted to, and put me away when she was ready.

i was hard-wired to be heard and tended to. just like all infants and children.

hope this helps, mr. c.....

love to all
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Old 12-24-2006, 07:45 AM
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- I dont know if I was reaching out for the same thing. My 1st wife was not much of a drinker at all. Just messed up at home.
My current ex is an "A" with a messed up home.

Now "T" and I dont drink that much at all when we are together.

Maybe it just has to do with the type of people who hook up from bars, I dont know
But that seems to be the only common thread.


Bars, nightclubs, I mean where else do you hit this singles scene?


Hey online dating is worse! Not only can most of them not find anyone in the real world, but they are never what they seem to be.

Im not sure what move to make any more.
I just know everyone I meet has more things wrong then I do.

I just want a nice relationship, is that too much to ask?
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Old 12-24-2006, 08:18 AM
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I think what I have to learn to do is to get to know me, what makes me happy, do things that make me happy. I need to develop interests and continue to do them involved with someone or not. I am in the same boat. I married my birth father (not really but I married a man just like him). Unfortunately. Recently separated and I am going on a year long deployment I don't really have to worry about meeting someone at the current time. I figure I have a year for me. Sometimes that sounds great and other times, I don't want the time but I know I need it.

I can totally relate to the thoughts going around in your head at night!
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Old 12-24-2006, 08:24 AM
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my mom was not an alcoholic.....but was raised in alcoholic home....she brought her codenpendancy habits right to the table with me....she didn't mean to, it's just how it was.

common thread????.......does not have to be alcohol......could be chaos, or drama, or expectations, or denial, or fear of intimacy....goes on an on....
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Old 12-24-2006, 08:38 AM
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Mr. C, now ya got it, "Don't go to bars" Try taking a book and go to the park. Spend time in the library, art museums, etc.

The right one comes along when we are busy doing something else.

What about night classes to become a councelor?
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Old 12-24-2006, 08:44 AM
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go to the grocery store, lurk around the apples, and act confused. ask for help....what's the best apple for apple salad???? how do you know which ones are sweet or tart????

i saw an old timer doin this yesterday....and it was workin!!! the ladies were cluckin around him....one lady says...well, what kind did your wife want???? he said...oh, it's just me...no wife......the hunt was on.....

i've thought about opening a bait shop, myself.....gotta meet lots of men that way.....

j
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Old 12-24-2006, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Christian View Post
Bars, nightclubs, I mean where else do you hit this singles scene?
Hi Mr C

First I wanted to say I'm glad both you and your attached head will be hanging around for a while.

You know what's attractive? A man who's willing to say hey I'm messing this up and I'd sure like to get it straight this time.

I go to bars once in a while. I don't drink much anymore, but I meet friends there, etc. I don't see them as places to meet anyone for a serious relationship. I'm not saying it can't happen, but I personally don't put much stock in it.

Maybe the answer is in the "singles" scene. I just had this discussion with my therapist last week. I hope I can clearly state this - I tend to go convoluted on it. I believe I'm ready to start letting other men into my life. I can now envision my life with someone else in it at some point in the future. But I'm not setting out to make that happen. I don't have the goal with every man I meet to set up house with him and get into a full blown relationship right out of the gate. The men I am finding myself attracted to right now are the same way - cautious and willing to take their time.

I am having fun. I have met people everywhere I go - meetings, events connected to my work, bbq's, parties, charity events. If a friend says hey I have someone you should date, I say invite us to something together and we'll see. I just don't "date." I think it puts too much pressure on both parties. By that I mean I don't do the pick me up at 6, go to dinner, maybe a movie, bring me home, do I kiss you?, etc. The whole evening feels like an audition. I'm just getting back into this, so I'm no expert. But it's always been more relaxing for me to get to know someone first. I do that by maintaining some control over my part in it. I don't get picked up by someone - I meet them. Hang out and have coffees. Yeah, see a movie (my passion), but leave in separate cars and go home.

To address your specific statements, I happen to like a man who does all the polite things. But those things will mean much more to me on a consistent basis farther down the road. What you may be experiencing are women who have been burned - and that will be true if you are dating in your age group - and so are a little suspicious of the polite guy. There may be a feeling of BTDT and it never worked out. Also, you have your beliefs about women and woman's lib and Sir Hillary. I don't happen to agree with them - LOL - but they are your beliefs. Don't compromise who you are at this particular point just to have a relationship.

I had many core beliefs before going into therapy that I no longer have. I'm still examining others that just aren't working for me, either. I don't know if that's something you're interested in, but it may be worth a try.

Well, I guess what I'm trying to say is that if I approach each new person as a potential long term relationship, serious/sexual affair, then I'm going to push myself to get involved much more quickly than is probably sane or safe. I'm sticking with the slow boat for now.

Hope some of this makes sense. I believe you will find that special person.
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Old 12-24-2006, 10:14 AM
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Mr. C you know how people are always saying women like jerks? I think it's just that people, men and women, like something that is unatainable to a degree.

If you offer the world too quickly I would be a bit suspicious. In fact that recently happened to me during my separation from xabf. I went out with this guy who on the first date was so enthusiastic about me that it actually turned me off. It flattered me but it frightened me as well. When I showed signs of reluctancy he tried harder to encourage me to date him which in turn actually really irritated me. For the first time in my life I understood why men ditch clingy woman. I never went out with that guy again.

You also have a point about the age we live in. I know I often have my guard up. There are just too many stories out there of men hurting women physically. I'm rather distant in public. I find myself chatting with old men a lot and women while at the grocery store for instance but I hardly notice men my age and if I do they are with women or kids.

I looked at you pic too and embraced is right. You are certainly good looking. Perhaps you needn't try so hard. Be a little less available. I think it's all about timing sometimes. It seems twisted I know but being hard to get is more attractive.
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