Throwing it back

Old 10-25-2006, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by mazey
Do they take a class? Word for word! 'you're too sensitive, I was only kidding/joking, etc'. I really didn't even know he was trying to control me. How do they know to do that?
They do it, learn it works, and the more they do it the better they get at it.
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Old 10-25-2006, 09:01 PM
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WOW! So incredible. I joined this board because I'm a recovering alcoholic. My husband is NOT recovering. He's also a sociopath. A verbal abuser. And I thought I was going crazy. This entire board is a lifesaver to me. I'm so grateful to be here.
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Old 10-25-2006, 09:44 PM
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The only thing I ever said to my ex was, "Do you kiss your mother with that mouth?, You bring so much esteem to being Mrs. John doe". It's such an honor to be married to you! I also told him if he ever heard the saying that, "to see a mans true character, look into his wifes eyes". ? I said, "run your mouth big man because the more you do, the more people feel sorry for me. That must make you really proud that you actually work to hurt your wifes feelings and make her cry. I told him, "you talk to me that way because anyone else would plow you right in the kisser!" You work very hard to make me feel like crap. It's starting to bounce right off and it makes me ashamed to even tell anyone I am your wife.
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Old 10-26-2006, 06:05 AM
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I just had an argument with my Aunt while she was moving out about me giving her the coffee maker.

I had told her last week that she could have it as my husband and I don't drink coffee. She called me a liar and actually began an argument with me about it. I was a little flabbergasted with the whole idea of how she will argue over the littlest things, but will tell me what I want to hear when I speak to her about her drinking.

I ended up telling her she could take it and walking away from her as I am not having an argument with her about a conversation over a coffee maker, for crying out loud.

I have found with my situation that saying I disagree and walking away helped a whole lot, but then she wasn't my spouse either.
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Old 10-26-2006, 06:20 AM
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I have a problem with the whole "throwing it back" idea. A few things come to mind....

Say what you mean and mean what you say.
and
We teach people how to treat us.
So, with that thought in mind, if you choose to turn it back on him, then you're choosing to say some awful, ugly things back to your husband. Is that really how you feel? If so, then why stay? And, if you lower yourself to his level, that just shows him that you're okay with talking to each other with such disrespect.

Some things that I used when my husband got ugly were, "You may be right" or "I never knew you felt that way, so I will have to give that some thought." Mind you, those phrases were meant to be said WITHOUT attitude. If I was severely ticked off, I chose to say nothing at all and just walked away. It was hard, but it saved me from going insane.

Take what you like, and leave the rest.
-Shannon
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Old 10-26-2006, 08:01 AM
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So mad I walked away, I did this many times, shaking my head! Then, we begin to put all our feelings away, shut them off and makes us even more crazy. But, of course, we have no other choice, CUZ sure can't talk to them.
There were very few times I could actually talk about needs, feelings...sometimes he'd act like yea, you're right or he'd kinda understand, bUT then right back to same thing and they meant NOTHING! I guess if we can live like that it is fine, even using the "tools" I would feel suffocated at times.
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Old 10-26-2006, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by mazey
But, of course, we have no other choice, CUZ sure can't talk to them.
I have so many choices in any given situation, it's mind boggling at times. I'm learning that when I think I have only one choice it's because I want the outcome to be controlled by me.
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Old 10-26-2006, 08:40 AM
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right on Mallow cup, I love your Moxy!!!
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Old 10-26-2006, 10:38 AM
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By tolerating behavior (good or bad), I am indicating my acceptance of said behavior. Whether I liked it or not..thats what happened.

did it help or make things worse
Well, I did not throw behavior back in a tit for tat way. I said things such as, I will not tolerate being spoken to like that..or I will leave if you call me names...or if you strike me, I will call the police.

Ultimately, I could not control his abuse anymore than I could his drinking. I could only control what I lived with, what I accepted, and my reaction.

When I look at the times when I felt smothered and suffocated, I too thought I had no choices. I had plenty, but none of them were choices I would have listed on my life multiple choice test. Still choices nonetheless.
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Old 10-26-2006, 11:16 AM
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When I said no other choice, I meant at the moment they are fighting w/ us, or verbally abusing. It was in response to Getting By,that when she was really ticked....In that moment, it is either walk away and hold back, or stay try to "reason"/talk. Yes, indeed there are lots of choices. But, at that moment what are the other choices? The point I was making is if I walked away to avoid further "trouble", it wouldn't accomplish anything but diffusing the situation and "living" with it, AND I would still have the issues accumulating. He would pass out, and I would have "tolerated" the insults etc. Done with all that now, but not everyone is. Certainly, can't fight/defend/discuss with them when they are drunk, and rarely when he was sober, that would be controntational! And he would be unavailable, or extremely defensive. So much more peace now in my life.
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Old 10-26-2006, 11:32 AM
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I now realize I had many choices, even in the situation mazey describes. Those choices are different for all of us.
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Old 10-26-2006, 12:24 PM
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I am just curious, Denny, what would you have done? Or what did you do? Maybe, those suggestions will help others who are still in the situation.
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Old 10-26-2006, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by mazey
I am just curious, Denny, what would you have done? Or what did you do? Maybe, those suggestions will help others who are still in the situation.
My sponsor said to me once when I asked her to give me concrete suggestions: here's your assignment, take the next 3 days to think up 5 other choices you could make in that situation. After those 3 days, I'll share with you mine, whether you've come up with any or not.

It really made me dig deep and think outside my box.
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Old 10-26-2006, 12:47 PM
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I guess for me, I picked my battles, so to speak. I learned to "know when to hold 'em, know when to fold, know when to walk away and know when to run." There were times when the verbal banter was quite mild. Limited to some off-colored jokes that I didn't find amusing, at all. Those were times when I definetely spoke up and let it be know that I would not tolerate being spoken to in that manner. Like elizabeth1979 said, "I will leave if you call me names." Clearly defined my boundary, and then I enforced it. The next time he called me names, I left.

When he got argumentative (after a beer or two), I opted for the "You may be right." Something to end the conversation so that it didn't get into a tit for tat.

When he was full on drunk, and full of guilt for his behavior... and looking to put some shame on me to make himself feel better... I walked away completely. I didn't want to be around him and accidentally slip and say something awful. I didn't want to give him any reason to blame me or include me in his drama.

There are right times and wrong times to have discussions. Intoxication is NEVER a time to try and reason things out... nor is anger.
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Old 10-26-2006, 05:55 PM
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I find the whole throwing things back pretty useless and exhausting. I'm not interested in saying hurtful, going down to their level and playing their. There are more interesting things to do in life.

And if that means sit at home alone and knit so be it. At least the wool doesn't talk back!

Ngaire
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Old 10-26-2006, 05:56 PM
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Words I left out of previos post:

Things and game.
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Old 10-27-2006, 06:56 AM
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When I initiated this thread, I referred to throwing it back. I didn't mean I was attempting to respond in kind with hurtful, abusive comments. That would serve no purpose but to escalate things and is against my nature to try to hurt him. I meant responding, as a number of you have mentioned, with self-defensive words, i.e. dont use that tone of voice, stop it or I will leave, etc. Ironically, his verbal abuse has gotten worse during this current period of sobriety--4 1/2 months now. Give me a break!!!

I am responding only when I feel it is safe and helps my self-esteem to stand up for myself as a human being, not as someone he has depersonalized and feels he is entitled to abuse. My intuition has certainly been comprised from his many years of crazymaking, but it kicks in when the need to walk away is the safest choice. I know I cant change him, but I am hoping he may be one of the few men that might be made aware of the effect of his verbal abuse. How he chooses to deal with it I cant control. But, I can control how and if I respond. I cant continue to be stepped on. I don't know where this is all going--this is new territory for me. I actually went to see a lawyer the other day to discuss my rights and my estate. Unfortunately, she only wanted to play therapist and didn't give me much legal advise. I had to laugh, upon leaving, she didn't want to shake my hand--she gave me a big bear hug instead--she must have sensed my pain. I feel like I am taking small steps forward to stand up for myself and will hopefully lead me to a peaceful place someday.
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Old 10-27-2006, 07:27 AM
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i am sorry for your troubles, lizzy, and you are in my prayers...along with your husband...that somehow things work out for the best and you find that peaceful place...
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Old 10-27-2006, 07:31 AM
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Peaceful place, that is the ultimate! Good wishes to you in your journey. I think we all know not to "fight" with them, it's painful to walk away too....but usually the right decision(after telling them,stop, or don't use that voice, etc.) Each of us must make the decision/choice of how to handle abuse in our own situations.
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Old 10-27-2006, 07:44 AM
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One of the steps I have been working on in my recovery is to try not to over analize things. There are days when i do just that and the little voice in my head tries to justify speaking to me poorly. I will just say to Burt, Quit the **** I don't know who u think you are talking too. Mean maybe but it is direct and to the point.
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