pazza

So, I am a newbie here, although I've done some browsing of the forums off and on for about a year. I've attended Al-Anon because of the intense hurt and anger I feel over my father's alcoholism, but I'm dealing with a different problem right now.

I have been with my boyfriend for over 3 years now, we've been in a long distance relationship and starting in August I came to live with him in Italy for a year of studying abroad/being with each other. I have confronted him about his over drinking in the past and everytime i even mention it he gets super angry and starts accusing me of being an ungrateful, unloving girlfriend who just complains and he usually ends up giving me the silent treatment (he is 36 years old and it seems very immature and hurtful). Now, I know I'm nowhere near perfect but I know I don't deserve to be treated the way he has been treating me.

We are now on a three week trip in portugal and just got here yesterday after 3 days of being in the car together which was absolute torture. We fought the entire time and he spent all of the yesterday drinking beer in the car, verbally abusing me and eventually got sick once we reached our hotel. Because of my father's alcoholism and the fact that he knows how much my father's illness has hurt me I feel especially angry that he continues to drink beer with no sense of moderation. So everytime he has beer I end up feeling angry, even if it is only his first one of the day I have this deep hurt and resentment towards him which comes out in my actions and then he is able to use that against me to make me the bad guy.

Right now he is drinking and giving me the silent treatment and I just don't know what to do. I have the whole atlantic ocean and thousands of miles more between me and my support system, plus I'm not even at my european "home" but rather 2000km from there! We are here for 3 weeks and I just don't know what to do. I never wanted to admit to myself before that this man is hurting me more than loving me, but it is the truth, and I guess I am finally willing to say it out loud, out of desperation, really. But now I'm stuck with someone who is emotionally abusing me and I don't know how to deal.

I realize I rambled on for a long time but I just feel so alone and confused I needed to let that out. Thanks to everyone out there...for listening, for being strong, for giving me hope.

denny57

Hi pazza, glad you are here

My AH also gave me the silent treatment, and he is 45, so I don't think age is a barrier there!

I'm so sorry you are going through this. I could have written your post word for word (except my father was not A). You are right, you do not deserve to be treated like this.

Strange as it may sound you do have a choice - you can leave Portugal, go back to Italy (catch the train if you have to). Go back to California. You can continue with the trip, checking in here when you can for support to get you through.

It doesn't sound like he's going to stop just to make the vacation more pleasant.

Emotional abuse is hell. I lived it. What you are feeling now at 3 years, which I felt too, is just the beginning. Without help, year 18 might be like mine: no self esteem, no self worth, feelings of helplessness, health suffering and waking up every day seeing no end in sight. One year ago that was me, and more. Today I can hardly believe that was me.

What worked for me: Al-Anon, therapy, SR, education on alcoholism and abuse and my support network.

Please keep posting. You do not have to go through this alone and everyone here will support you.

((()))

p.s. where are you in portugal? I had a wonderful trip there. Yes, I was with AH and another drinking couple. The 3 of them would start at 10 a.m. I just started taking off on my own and had a great time.

lillamy

Hey Pazza...

It sounds like you've found another alcoholic. Which means your feelings aren't his main concern -- getting the next drink is.

And I second Denny. You have a choice. It's scary, and maybe you don't want to jump a train back to Italy. But it's a possibility. And you deserve better than being yelled at for expressing your emotions.

an'ka

Hi, Pazza. I also think that your bad experiences with your alcoholic father will not stop your boyfriend from drinking. You would think that if someone cared deeply about you, they would not do things to hurt you. Well, that would be nice, but it doesn't work that way. His drinking is nothing personal and I don't think it's even meant to be malicious--there is an addiction, which makes your boyfriend crave alcohol the way your body craves oxygen. You, however, don't have to be miserable. It is within your power to grab your bag and leave--you really don't even need to offer any explanations. Put yourself first, don't worry too much about being nice, and take action that is in YOUR best interests.

Cynay

Welcome to SR.....

Im sorry you are going through all this and feeling so alone. We have all been there and understand like no other how you feel and how much it hurts.

I have to agree with Denny as well, It will drive you crazy till you learn to detach from what he is saying and doing. He is an Alcoholic and his disease has nothing to do with you. One really good book that helped me get a little bit of a handle on this is "getting them sober"..... There is no anger, love, hurt .... nadda that will keep them from drinking unless they want to stop.

You are also giving him too much power. You are not trapped.... even if you dont do anything you do have options like just leaving him at the hotel and driving back, getting the train etc.... sometimes just knowing that help you not feel so hopeless.

The other thing I wanted to point out ....... Please take this in the spirit it is ment. I dont want to hurt you only help you work though it...... You knew he over drank before you went to Italy. Now that your living with it I know its harder but at the same time you are trying to control him by your anger/hurt. You did not cause this, you can NOT control it and you cant cure it. By having an issue regarding his drinking and doing nothing about it you are confirming to him that it is ok and then complaining about it when he drinks. Does that make sense?

Maybe some soul searching to figure out what you want .... what you are willing to give up to get what you want and some education about Alcoholism would help get the focus back. I used Al-anon, Theraphy, SR and a heck of a lot of reading to get educated.

*hugs*

I just came back from 9 days in Italy last summer.... OHHHhhhh I would love to spend a year over there.

pazza

Thank you so much to everyone for responding. I was in such a state of panic and confusion when I wrote the post I really appreciate the support...especially because of course the drama never stops.

I feel pretty ashamed to say that i practically got down on my knees, putting my partner in a position of great power, asking him whether he wanted me to stay or not. The fact is, I am just so scared to make all the changes in my life that go along with leaving portugal right now. I'm not proud to say how weak I've been, he ended up tearing me apart and pretty much blaming everything that has ever gone wrong between us on me. And I could see his point in many ways because I have felt so much resentment towards him for his drinking I do end up being rude to him or I give him disgusted looks or i am not affectionate with him. So I ended up saying that I would act completely loving towards him in every way, and we'll see what happens from there. I'm just trying to survive, i don't feel strong enough to leave yet but I'm trying to ignore his drinking, detaching is more difficult.

denny57 thank you so much for saying you've been through something so similar i.e. it isn't all in my head, and reminding me that i do not deserve this emotional abuse because it will just continue to deteriorate me. I am so scared to leave my partner i haven't gotten up the courage yet, but the truth is, in the end I should. So....yeah. We are in Peniche, for surfing actually. Portugal is beautiful and rustic and inexpensive! For everyone out there go! (minus toxic company)

lillamy I've been trying to deny for the past 3 years that I am sickly drawn towards a man who resembles my father in so many ways that make me feel ill. I suppose accepting this will help me in eventually freeing myself. thank you.

an'ka I totally understand what you're saying...do the right thing for me, not for someone else. In the end it is so hard to make that move though. even stupid things like how i know he is going to bad mouth me soooo badly and call me a horrible partner and all that when i leave him, it hurts and even though the hardest thing to do is the best thing to do, it is still so hard. thanks for reminding me i need to have my own well being as the top priority, it is easy to forget.

Cynay You are so right on in that I have given him way too much power. He also happens to be a great arguer so that no matter what actually happened he can re-tell it the way he wants and i end up believing that story. I did look into how I could get back by the train and I do feel a lot better knowing that option is feasible. maybe i'll find out what the train scenery through portugal, spain and france looks like if things get worse. I appreciate you pointing out that my anger and hurt did not help at all to control his drinking, most likely it made it worse. I know i can't control others' behavior, only my own, i just have major issues with anger towards my alcoholic father and i used the same, unhelpful tactic with my partner. i'm ready to let go of my anger, thanks for helping me along.

I really do appreciate your replies and I'll let you know how things go, for now I'm going to work on detaching, letting go of my anger and just trying to have fun with the other people here and even with my partner if he'll let me. time will tell. (but not too much time!)

an'ka

Pazza, you shared your feelings with your partner and he "tore you apart" and blamed you for everything. You, in turn, promised to "act completely loving to him in every way." What is wrong with this picture? Please forgive me for being blunt, but I think you should reconsider your position and act completely loving to YOU. You deserve a lot better than a relationship where you are expected to just deal with something that hurts you and be out-argued all the time. If you don't respect yourself, you can almost expect to be treated with none. Put yourself in the position of power--it is not scary, it's liberating.

pazza

I feel so stupid, yeah I pretty much begged my way back into an emotionally abusive relationship. My partner has been drinking beer since 11am and sometime in the past hour his mood changed so that anything I say he rolls his eyes or gets pissed. It is so incredibly frustrating talking to him when he is like this because he just gets it in his mind that I am a horrible person when there is no reason in the world for him to feel that way. Like he wants to blame me for every problem in the world just to have someone to blame. I guess they say trying to talk to someone who is drunk is useless. But he is lucid enough to make up elaborate stories about how I am so worthless it is so hard not to talk back. But of course that makes him even more mad. I just keep feeling like I need more time, I really don't want to just up and leave.

And I know when I do leave he going to say I used him (he has paid for the majority of the vacation we are on right now) and then left him. So frustrating.

an'ka

"I just keep feeling like I need more time, I really don't want to just up and leave".

Need more time for what, Pazza? Personal misery? Convincing him that alcohol is evil? Suffering long enough to feel justified in leaving? Persuading him that you are not a horrible person and were not there only for the money? The choice to remain in this relationship is yours, of course--just remember not to regret the wasted time afterwards. Hugs.

denny57

Don't!

BTDT - many times. What was I thinking LOL?
This really does sound like our trip to Portugal now.
It's best to not talk, then

That's not lucid talk, that's drunk quacking.

This is the key - where the hard questions to yourself have to come in. Take away everything he may say about you - who cares - and be honest why you don't want to leave. Doesn't mean you have to make a decision one way or the other. Go to the scary place and answer this question for yourself.

Sorry you are going through this in such a beautiful place.

Take care.

Cynay

Sorry to hear its not going much better. Why dont you just go shopping or get away from him when this comes up? Just a few things I wanted to talk about here.


I could be totally off base here and if I am that is ok too. I do tend to reach pretty deep sometimes.... but here it goes. Do you think there is a chance that your doing being with your boyfriend is a punishment not only to him but to you. Are you trying to rewrite your childhood. (i just have major issues with anger towards my alcoholic father and i used the same, unhelpful tactic with my partner) that is the part that makes me think you might want to do alot more inner work before working on relationships. Is your BF treating you like your father did, making you feel worthless??? is that a comfortable place for you to be cuz its a "known"

Silly he does want to blame you for every problem.... This is a person that is doing things he does not like, he does not like himself let alone love himself.... that hurts... He is in pain and because he really "cant" look inside yet and punish himself ...... Well he does not have too because you are begging him to use you as a punching bag. Im truely not trying to hurt your feelings but I hope you are able to just reach alittle bit and see things for what they are. NONE of this is about you....

There is every reason for him to point to you as a horrible person.... if you were not there to point too.... he might have to look at the three other fingers that are pointing back at himself. Why would you want to frustrate yourself by talking to someone when they are drunk.... there is never going to be communication in that....


*cringe* this one strikes such a deep wound in me. I was the arguer and I could twist anything you said to fit anything I wanted. Im not an Alcoholic but my sickness would have matched and surpassed many alcoholics I know. I can tell you what is true for me. When I would manuplate like this it really had nothing to do with that person.... it had to do with my feelings of being out of control, lesser then, unloveable, scared and a whole line of other things....... I had to keep them with me or I had to convience them I was a wonderful person because inside I did not feel like one and I could not face myself...... So when he is doing this remember what I said... it really is not about you.

When you are ready for this pain to end, you will end it.... till then just try to get educated and take care of yourself.

StandingStrong

pazza, it took me a long time to realize that I have a problem with spending my life with someone that drinks. Whether they have a drinking problem or not - I know that I have a problem dealing with their drinking. So I no longer do. I don't subject myself to someone that drinks, I won't have a relationship with someone that drinks. Some people may be able to accept a relationship with a social drinker or whatnot - I know that for myself, I can't. And that is my choice! I choose not too.

That doesn't make me a bad person. It simply makes me a person that has acknowledged what I want and don't want. It was during this time of discovering that when I began to look at other areas of my life. I had to ask myself alot of tough questions and get honest with myself. And it was hard.

For whatever reason that you aren't ready to just up and leave yet - well, that is your decision. So I hope that you will seek help in finding the reasons and the answers within yourself.

You have your whole life ahead of you. And life is a journey which you get to travel through and experience. I hope you find that your life is worth happiness and a wonderful journey.

justicej

I just looked it up in the world service organization. If you speak Portuguese (maybe they speak english) they have ACA (Adult Children of Alcoholics) meetings in Portugal. I don't have any idea if this will help you. But ACA meetings, workbooks, journaling and therapy have helped me tremendously. This may sound trite, but don't knock them until you have tried them. Be true to your feelings, value yourself, and remember that the only person you have any ability to "fix" is yourself. You deserve it!!!

pazza

I haven't felt up to responding because I'm not sure what to say, I'm not sure what to do. After reading all the responses on Friday I felt extremely depressed because I know in my heart that this relationship is not working and I know that I should have gotten out a long time ago.
He asked me this morning what was wrong and all I could tell him was that I am feeling depressed, confused and nervous. I have a history of major depression and have been on meds (lexapro) for 5 years, I'm on a very low dose now so me feeling depressed isn't a huge surprise for him.
There are a thousand little things swirling in my head concerning the consequences of my leaving my partner. Most importantly:

-will I be strong enough (do i have the desire) to stay out the rest of the school year in Italy? the only reason I learned Italian and came to study there specifically was because I loved him and wanted to be with him. The logistics of dropping out of the program and getting back into normal school are very complicated

The other huge question on my mind is how to talk to him. Anytime I slightly mention alcohol he shuts down and rolls his eyes and stops listening, and since there are no waves today we are in our apartment doing nothing so he started drinking at 10:30am. It made me physically ill seeing him open the can. But I feel like "out of the blue" just expressing my feelings would come to his ears like a personal attack out of nowhere. My skills in being able to make coherent sentences especially when I'm upset are super weak.

I want to say: "The way you drink scares me, it changes your personality and you become mean and rude. When you drink you are not fun to be around and often you make a fool of yourself. I am becoming more and more reminded of my father's drinking habits the more I watch you and this makes me extremely sad. You know how much my father has hurt my family and himself because of his drinking. This behavior makes you very unattractive and I do not feel sexually attracted to you anymore. yet anytime I try and talk to you about 'normal' drinking or moderation in drinking you completely shut me down and disregard anything I say."

This is a confused bunch of what I would like to say, I know the words aren't right but I just had to type out what has been going through my head. Trying to get it to come out my mouth is the hard part. Plus, i just have so much fear because financially he has done a lot for me (I didn't ask for it, he just gave, like for instance, this trip) and money is a big issue for me as well since my [alcoholic] father has always used money as a tool against my mother and I who were not nearly as well off as him.

denny57 I am in the scary place, asking myself really why I don't want to leave, and the reason is the act of pretty much changing my whole life, all my plans for the future, I had built my life, present and future around this relationship and it is just so frightening the idea of leaving all of that behind...for what? being free of feeling constantly on pins and needles so as not to upset my partner and actually living my life....but it is so terrifying

Cynay I don't know if I am trying to re-write the story with my father or not, the fact is I didn't see the connection between the 2 relationships until the past year or so and the fact is i never should have gotten into a relationship in the first place. I was 17 when I met him, 21 now and he is 16 years older than me. So most people who would hear my story would point to exactly the idea that i am unconsciously trying to create a new ending to the story with my dad. Very freudian, so it is hard for me to accept, i think more that i just ignored the signs of his disease enough to fool myself. naive. I keep asking myself why he feels so horrible that he needs to drink. He is very negative about other people but tends to act pretty happy about his life in general. I keep thinking that it is me, my problems with depression and stuff that has "driven him to drink" so in that case it would be best for me to leave anyway.... Thank you for writing about your experience being on the other side of an argument, being the "winner" i guess i could say, because it does feel like he is taking all my power from me when he argues me down and twists things around, it makes me feel very weak and worthless. I just wish I had some sort of strength of mind not to let him do that! but i will remember your words

StandingStrong I think I am like you, I have noticed that no matter who it is (but especially my partner) it is extremely hard for me to be around people who are drinking, let alone in a relationship with one. My partner has accused me of "trying to turn him Amish" when I said we should try to have drinks only once a week or only when out with friends and when we do no more than 2-3. To me this is moderation, to him it was ridiculous, i guess that is the major disconnect.

justicej I really appreciate you looking up the ACA info for me. sadly I don't speak portuguese and the meetings are not near me, but I do truly believe in the power of Al-Anon and ACA, I have been to many meetings in the states but never followed them regularly as I needed to. I am regretting intensely that I didn't bring my "courage to change" book with me to portugal, i can imagine it on my desk in italy right now.

I guess I am just floundering with how to confront him, what to say, how to defend myself instead of it all turning into "my issue/my fault"

mallowcup

You feel stupid because he works hard at making you feel stupid. If he were not in your life, would you feel stupid? Instead of crediting him for paying for most of this vacation, I'd resent it. He's paid all this money, been blessed to be in such a beautiful place and he has managed to ruin it. I'll tell you what's happened in my house. I have turned it around. It works for me. Those hurful comments and stinging remarks go unanswered. I used to take them so personally that it dicatated who I was becoming. I thought, it's funny , but no one else thinks I'm stupid. Just him, just when he's drunk. I changed my mind set. I don't try to live up to his standards anymore. He has to try to live up to mine. That just required me changing my nind, changing how I think. I am honest. I don't harp at him, but in the morning light, I have told my husband how unimpressed I was with last nights performance. I have told him I can't imagine why a grown man would want to leave such an impression. Rolling his eyes and ranting, sauntering around like Carey Grant half bagged made him turn me off. I have told him that this "confidence" that he gets when he's drunk is foolish and if he's going to drink, I have to leave. I've told him he drink enough not to realize what a turn off he is, but he can never drink enough to make me forget. I would just tell him that if he wants a chance at all of this relationship working, you can not sit and watch this nonsense because it is changing your heart toward him. My husband drinks beer after beer. On special occassions, he drinks a bourbon on the rocks, he saunters around with a rocks glass like Humphrey Bogart. (in his mind). He's loud with his alcohol induced confidence, he's obnoxious, he flirty, he is NOT funny. I don't go with him anymore. I'm not interested in his idea of a good time.