Grace

This may sound crazy, but I need some professional opinions here.

I'm doing my best to be happy and to keep the peace. Just trying to enjoy my life one day at a time.

He appears to be miserable 95% of the time. The books that I've read say that alcoholics are terrible unhappy people. They live in self-hatred and shame and that is WHY they treat us so poorly. [I]Hurting people hurt people.[I] Honestly, the only time he appears to be the least bit happy is when he is with his drinking buddies. And then...the next day...he puts them down.

Isn't it true that you can't love another without first loving yourself?

Am I being too judgemental here?

I took chemical dependency counseling classes in college and I do remember the professor saying, "You cannot be happy living with an alcoholic. They will do everything possible to bring you down to their level."

I know in my situation, I definitely do not feel loved. I have numerous codependent friends who are living with active alcoholics. I DO NOT see any love or respect in ANY of these relationships.

I'm working very hard at learning to love myself again. It is difficult when you have someone constantly criticizing EVERYTHING about you.

Any feedback or viewpoints on this would be greatly appreciated.

aasharon90

Hi Grace Sharon here and Alcoholic.

I liked what u shared...ur right it isnt fair
to be treated like u r.....Its not ur fault
at all....REMEMBER that always....

They do say when one in the family
is sick..everyone gets affected by
that disease... it is a disease....and
and the more knowledgeable we get
about these diseases the better we
are to deal with them....

Ive been sober 16 yrs in a 24 yr marriage.

Im the only one in recovery....my spouse
is non alcoholic.....

He has been thru ups and downs with me
thru out our marriage.....Not always
easy....he's been with me before, during
and after drinking....

I really feel for him lots of times...he never
asked for the treatment i put him thru...

However..he seems to be strong in taking
care of himself....as he wont let me get
to far in putting him down....

It maybe that one Al-anon meeting
he went to that saved his life... ONE meeting..
lol ...i think he learned one important one...

Dettatchment.... lol

Anyway....i think of him as the calm
in my strom of craziness....I however
remain teachable and try to use all
that i have learned thus so far in
recovery within my life and marriage.

Not perfect just progressing towards
a more happier joyous freedom in recovery.

I dont think this marriage of mine would
have lasted this far if the family didnt do
an intervention on me sending me to rehab
for 28 days.....i was scared enough of losing
my little ones at the time, so i did whatever
was suggested to me to the best of my
ability to use the tools of recovery to get
where i am today....

Still married...2 wonderful adults studying hard
in college to make a life of their own and
16 yrs of continuous sobriety.

Much strength and faith to u as u find
ur way thru the storms of life.

mazey

Oh, Grace, it sounds like how mine was. Grumpy, brooding, BUT when he was going drinking w/ buddies he'd get all happy and excited! Never wanted to do anything else! Then, he'd feel grumpy and icky after drinking! Vicious circle! Done now.....

CatsTail

grace,

they are sick in a self-centered disease. They only think of themselves in their sickness.

Ngaire

Grasshopper

Hi Grace,alcohol is a depressant.What seems to make me happy,in the begining,which was drinking,,would turn against me,and,i,was, not one to keep things to herself,i would share,to others exactly how im thinking/feeling about myself.Had nothing at all to do with anyone but me.Although i would direct it all towards others.I am one alcoholic.
Loving another and drinking are to seperate issues.I love my hub,my family,.When drinking i had a build up of stuff,that,i would, burst onto others.But i loved them with all that i am.And today i love them with all that i am,sober.
Being the wife of an alcoholic,i would beg to differ with you cant be happy living with an alcoholic.Through working on my own recovery,with Al-anon,and for me,AA,yes one can be happy,regardless of what another says and does.I was sober 10 years before hub came to recovey,through God,s Grace.Hub use to rip-roar all the time to me,saying hateful things.Called mental abuse,by some,for many years..Day and night.When i changed,my thoughts/feelings about his behaviour,then his behaviour had no power to hurt me.Eventually understanding that it wasnt mental, abuse,{my opinion}but rather a sick person,saying and doing sick things.Why would i even take notice of what he says in this condition?He like myself would do better if he knew better.
My relationship with God,is what changed me.Having this relationship,i dont care what anyone says about me,its a non-issue.Eventually as im not responding,and he is not getting the feedback,he eventually stoped,with his,stuff,for it wasnt working for him anymore.He was miserable,and he didnt have my company,mentally,spiritually.

deax

This isn't a "professional" opinion, it's just mine. But yes I think an alcoholic can and does love people. The real question for me is whether you decide that you can be happy and fulfilled in a relationship with an active addict. I wasn't able to, but I love him very much and I know he loves me.

He loves me as much as he can, and what that meant for us is that I never seemed to come before his beer or his coke. And I got fed up with being second, and with being lied to and stood up and all the other behviors that come from maintaining an addiction. But I know he loved me; you know how the song goes, though: sometimes love just ain't enough.

Also, all relationships, and all alcoholics, are different. I was only with my bf for a year and didn't live with or even too near him, so maybe things would have gotten worse over time... But I never felt disrespected, and I never felt he was trying to bring me down to his level-- not while we were together anyway. He knew how opposed to drugs I was and he was happy about that, he never tried to get me to drink with him, and he always wanted me to put school and work first, etc. He liked that I was a "good girl"...

So no I do not agree that they're completely incapable of love. The real question is whether you can be happy enough with the leftover love you get when the addiction is #1.

historyteach

I suggest you read this post, from the horse's mouth.
Jon, the founder of SR, wrote this piece for us codependents.
ALthough he speaks of drug abuse, it's important to remember that alcohol IS a drug.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ddicts-do.html
His story; his truth; can and will answer your question.

I wish you the best.
Shalom!

denny57

This is from a site that I like very much; it's a small piece of the whole article:

I became one of a number of love objects; I wasn't at the top.

mallowcup

I think they think they love us. What they don't understand is that we aren't driven by the same things that they are. My husbands friend is the prime example of this. He wants a girlfriend. He is in love with the coler that accompanies him everywhere. If we take a drive, we have to plan a route that has a store every few miles because he either has to reload his cooler or pee every half hour. He picks on me about not drinking and says "I'm a slave to my religion", he thinks if I just loosened up and had a few drinks, I'd be a lot more fun. I have entire conversations in my head about who the slave is. This guy has about $40,000.00 in the bank from a settlement, he gets a monthly disability check. He inherited his parents modest home. He thinks he's a real catch. My point is he's just waiting around, thinking he has everything a woman could want. He thinks the only thing missing is love. He just wants a woman to love. Love means, fixing up the house, making his meals, doing his laundry, waiting for him to come home from drinking with a starched white apron on. He thinks these tasks make a woman feel secure and loved. Alcoholics don't think we noticed they've been gone for 5 hours, they don't think we notice they can't walk or talk, they think we stand at the window and clap saying yippee, he's home! I don't think they can love, I think they NEED and call it love.

Grace

Thank you for all your replies. I could relate to every one of them.

I was thinking back to when I felt the happiest and most content---it was when I was minding my OWN business and not worrying about someone else. It was when I wasn't obsessing about all the Whys and Ifs. It was when I was concentrating on getting myself better instead of worrying about changing him.

I'm working on it AND I always gain strength and wisdom from my friends on here.

Thank you!

Ngokpa

It's a strange thing to be all stressed out and seek solice in the thing that stresses you out.

Well, alcoholism is a learning disorder.

StandingStrong

Grace, I can't give you a professional opinion, but I can share my thoughts with you.

You asked While many may tell you that it's not possible, I have a different opinion.
I loved my AH with everything I am - which was too much. Did I love myself? I don't think so.
So I believe that you can love someone else without loving yourself.

My Mom is another example. As a Mother, I feel that somewhere in her heart, she loves my brother and I. But she wasn't a great mother. Does she love herself? Not really. But then again, having grown up in an alcoholic home, she was taught to not show and express her feelings, etc. She is very unemotional available. She has some characteristics that are quite common among alcoholics (and a counselor from my brother's rehab counseling even told her she acted like an alcoholic). But I believe that though she doesn't seem to love herself, and doesn't show that she loves others, I do believe that she does. In her own way.

I used to say this about AH as well and have often told my kids this as well. Ah loved us in his heart - just doesn't do so in actions. He loves us, just not in the way that we need him too, etc. Does he love himself? I'm not sure. I've had phases of thinking he loved himself only, to loving himself more than anyone else, to thinking he must not like or love himself at all. So I really don't know.

Personally, I think that the matter of love or not love in these situations all just comes down to basically asking yourself if you are willing to accept the kind of love or lack of love that a person is giving you.

Just my thoughts. Take what you like and leave the rest.

TexasGirl

While I think this might be a hasty generalization to summarize an entire population this way, I think it is an interesting statement. When I hear AH begging me to come home, I don't hear love. I hear need. He says it's love, but my gut tells me otherwise...

mazey

Love, yes I think they can love, but their definition is different than mine. Althought, mine did do some pretty loving things, for others-at times. Usually, others-not 'the love of his life'! And, I truly think he did love me.....as much as he could love....sad!

jimhere

While I believe there is some truth in what mallowcup said, I would also agree with TexasGirl.

As a recovered alcoholic who has been there, I can tell you that I do love very deeply-both when I was drinking and now that I'm sober. That is what ate my lunch when I was drinking. You see, I've always had a conscience. What you all see as self-hatred is really remorse, shame, and guilt.

My former wife, who is not alcoholic could not understand why I drank when I promised I wouldn't. Why I didn't show up when I promised I I would. She couldn't understand. She would say "if you loved me you would quit drinking." She couldn't understand what it is like to have a mind that gets you to the first drink and a body that gaurentees the second one. And I don't expect you all to understand that either. Intelligence, reason, emotion have nothing to do with why an alcoholic will take the first drink and why an alcoholic will keep on drinking past any point of control.
Jim

denny57

I saw in AH's own handwriting "no one hates me more than I hate myself" so I tend to believe him. He also wrote of remorse, shame and guilt, too. All of it.

This is why I always recommend reading Under the Influence, as well as other materials. There is no way to NOT understand this if you learn all you can.

Pick-a-name

I agree. Frustration,yes.......but beyond that,there is understanding. Learning about alcoholism is a very important part ofmy own recovery (on so many levels).

FormerDoormat

I think the answer is yes and no. Yes, then can love us, but not in the way we need.

Tally

I agree...they love us as much as they can....might not be enough for most of us, but it's all they have to give..

mallowcup

Maybe that's where some of our the anger comes from in their drunkeness and their sobriety. In drunkeness, it takes everything we've got to have their very least. In their sobriety, we see their least was not their best.