mtmama

Has anyone experienced a death caused by alcoholism? I think my AH may be dying and I don't know what to expect. Hopefully, someone out there can walk me through what may be happening to him.

He is 64 years old and has been on a binge at our vacation house since mid-July. At first, I didn't do anything except check on him by phone every day or so. I decided to travel to see him and arrived yesterday. He has a huge belly, but has had little or nothing to eat for at least 10 days....some crackers and cheese, or a spoonful of peanut butter is all for a day...because he has constant nausea. He is quite thin everywhere except his stomach....eyes are sunken, but not jaundiced. He sleeps most of the time. He drinks vodka when he is awake, but not as much as he was drinking...he has 'cut down.' He has severe diarrhea (yellow water, actually, since he has no food in his stomach)--five 'accidents' this a.m. His heart rate is above 115 beats (resting) and he is clammy. He swims a little every day, but a short walk with the dog sends him back to bed because of the exertion.

Any thoughts? Don't tell me to get him to a Dr.....he is a Dr. and won't go to one. Thanks for any advice, etc.

denny57

It could be ascites. There was a poster here who went through it with her mom. You could do a search.

I'm sorry he will not agree to see a doctor. I don't see what else you can do. My heart goes out to you. Please take care.

FormerDoormat

If you call an ambulance, would he refuse treatment? It might be worth a try. My heart goes out to you and your husband. Sending prayers your way.

DesertEyes

Hello mtmama, and welcome to SoberRecovery,

I've seen a few. My Dad, my Mom, my Aunt, several other friends and relatives. You cannot diagnose how serious the condition is without at least a liver panel, that's a test of the persons' blood. It's usually the liver or the pancreas that are the most damaged among alcoholics.

This is called a "late stage alcoholic" The distended abdomen could be an inflamed liver, a perforated ulcer in the stomach, or a blocked intestine. Since he will not go to a Dr. then _you_ can go to a Dr. Be honest with the doctor and describe what your AH looks like. Describe the entire drinking story as best you can. Be clear to the doctor that you are concerned for the well being of your AH.

What the doctor will need to determine is whether a "welfare check" needs to be done. The laws for this are different in every state, basically it means that the police will forcibly verify the welfare of your AH and if they feel he is unable to care for himself he may be forcibly transported to a hospital.

Unfortunately, nobody can force your AH to quit drinking. If he is sick enough they may keep him for a few days. At that point it is up to him.

When you are done talking to the doctor I would suggest you call up the local al-anon office in your phone book. The folks there will have additional suggestions relevant to your part of the world. You will also find a lot of kind, caring people at a real life meeting of al-anon.

Mike

prodigal

My aunt died from alcoholism-related problems. The last five years of her life she lived on baby food because she could no longer digest solids. However, it was her heart that gave out and she ultimately died of heart failure brought on by acute pneumonia.

Just before my AH went into his last rehab he was nauseated all the time and vomited a lot. He ate very little. His skin was hanging from his bones and he had no butt - I mean there was just flat skin against the butt bones. He had a little bit of a stomach, but he was so doggone skinny and wasted even his stomach wasn't that large.

I agree w/DesertEyes - see if there is anything you can do to at least get this man into a hospital for a few days. They may decide to detox him. At least it may be the wake-up call he needs.

mtmama

I think I just clicked on the wrong buttom...but will reiterate. I hear what you all are saying, but what is the point in getting medical help from a Dr. or an ambulance request or from a police 'welfare check'? Isn't the damage irreversible at this point? He has been to rehab 2 1/2 times and has been drunk for 14 years. Just seems like a lot of $$$ going to Dr's and hospitals for a condition that is "untreatable" at this point.

I really want to know what comes next? More sleeping? More diarrhea? More nausea? What happens when you have reached the point of no return and the alcohol is going to kill you?

michski

Doctor or no doctor, he's formost an alcoholic! If you want him to live longer get him an intervention and into rehab. I've lost many friends and a sister to alcohol and related liver/kidney/heartcuzofpneumonia It's real.

DesertEyes

Hey there mtmama,

There are two different conditions that you need to consider. The first condition is _your_ condition. I don't know how exhausted _you_ are from dealing with him and his behavior. Whether you wish to continue to be involved with him is a decision nobody else can make for you. What we can do is ask you to take a little time to read thru the material here on SoberRecovery, and to attend some real life meetings of al-anon. Once you have that information you will be able to make a rational decision as to how much involvement you wish to have with him.

A separate condition is _his_ alcoholism.

No. It isn't. Only a doctor can determine if the damage is irreversible. At this point you don't know what, if any, of his organs are involved and to what extent. The bloating you mention could be an obstructed bowel, that's fixed with a simple surgery. Alcoholism is _highly_ treatable, millions of people have overcome it thru many different programs, of which AA is only one.

There is _always_ the posibility of return from alcoholism. The disease only progresses while alcohol is consumed. The moment the drinking stops the body begins to heal itself. There are only a few organs that can reach a point of no return. Pancreatitis is one case, a fully involved case of pancreatitis has no cure and the person will die. However, a person with fuly involved pancreatitis is unconscious and comatose which this man is not. If this man can still crawl he is still far from death.

What comes next is that I am not sure how much more involvement you want with this man. Forgive me if I misunderstand, but I get the impression that you have had enough and would rather not participate in his life anymore. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Mike

BigSis

There is always hope... the AA Big Book has a personal story in the back from a man who found recovery at age 70.... after nearly everyone who ever loved him had died, he got sober. He wrote his story for the book five years later.... those were five years no one expected him to have, and I expect he lived more after the book was published.

That said, there is not much YOU can do and no way anyone can predict the outcome... just like you can't predict when begins the onset of the disease itself because it is different for every person, there is no way to predict when or exactly how the disease will progress for one person.

Alanon helps me NOT focus on the disease, but on the loved one beneath the disease... the person I love. It helps me learn how to detach from the chaos of the addiction, and with loving compassion, my fellow Alanons share their experience with each step of the disease.

Perhaps you can also benefit from Alanon, if yo don't already attend. There are many, many meetings to choose from, but each is "flavored' by the personalities of the group, so we are asked to try at least 6 meetings before deciding if it is right for me.... I hope you can find some help.

(((hugs)))

Sheryl85

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtmama

I think I just clicked on the wrong buttom...but will reiterate. I hear what you all are saying, but what is the point in getting medical help from a Dr. or an ambulance request or from a police 'welfare check'? Isn't the damage irreversible at this point? He has been to rehab 2 1/2 times and has been drunk for 14 years. Just seems like a lot of $$$ going to Dr's and hospitals for a condition that is "untreatable" at this point.

I really want to know what comes next? More sleeping? More diarrhea? More nausea? What happens when you have reached the point of no return and the alcohol is going to kill you?

The point is that not even an animal let alone a human being deserves a death like that. It's painful and ugly. I watched an Uncle go through it and die and I went to the funeral of another Uncle (the younger brother) that put a bullet in his brain because he couldn’t bear the pain any longer. And maybe your husbands condition is irreversible, but then again, maybe it isn't... Does it really matter?

I agree with what everyone here has said already, but I want you to reread what you are asking us. I think your AH needs some intervention, but I’m worried about you, too. I think that the suggestion of contacting Al-anon is a really good one.

My heart goes out to you...

upanddownjj

I know that there was a point in my life that I didn't care whether the alcoholic in my life lived or died..That is kind of what I think I hear is this post...People who don't understand sometimes just lose hope. Alcoholism runs in families and low and behold - I became one too..Studies are saying there is a genetic predisposition...I do have more Compassion now that have more Education. Fortunately I stopped drinking before it caused too much trouble in my life.

There is a wonderful young man in my home group tho who was written off for dead - on life support 3 years ago..His father died of Alcoholism last year and his three sisters have been sober 10-15 yrs...He just celebrated three years sober and is is perfect health and one of the most successful businessmen in town - supports all the local charities and is getting married this summer..

By no means is your husband's life over if an intervention can occur and he can get sober and his health attended to...

Don't give up on him. If you have - please get someone else to help him..His life does not have to be over..And please - get YOURSELF some help..His alcoholism has definately affected you and the rest of your family if you have kids...you are in my prayers...Please read up on Alcoholism and how it affects a family.

mallowcup

My first experience with death from alcohol came almost immediately after becoming a nurse. It was my first real exposure to end stage alcohol use which included at least one patient a week who was actively dying from alcohol abuse. Some were physically shot, some mentally shot, some combative, none were remorseful. Not one that I remember. I don't think they had the capability. Usually I was stunned at how young the person really was but how old they looked. Some had no one left, some had weeping families who would never hear "I'm sorry". Most required total care. I remember feeling so frustrated that these people got themselves into this shape and families had to wait until some medical crisis to get them into the hospital. My friends father is in the hospital where we work. She and her four other sibblings were taken out of her fathers house after her mother ran off and left them with their alcoholic father who sexually abused every single one of them. Social services came when my friend was five and some of the sibblings never saw each other again. This was back int he fifties. My friend was raised in a series of Foster homes. Now at fifty, my friend goes and stands outside his hospital room but won't go in. She had always prayed for an apology or some kind of explanation. He is blind and has dementia, he's foul mouthed and combative. He requires total care and his body is shot. He is in ICU. I feel so bad that she stands there just looking at him from a distance. She will have a different kind of closure. Each day that we go into work, its the first thing she does is check to see if he's still alive. Then several times a shift she sneaks over to have a peek at him. I told her that he has lived a life doing exactly what he wanted. I told her things have come full circle where he is now completely at the mercy of the caregivers. He receives better care than he ever gave. He is being well taken care of. I told her to go as often as she needs to to stand and look at him, it was OK that she didn't go into his room and that he never even knew she was there. This is about her. I wish more people could hear an "I'm sorry". I have reminded her what a great and compassionate nurse she is, how many little kids she's helped. No one saved us or helped us. It is amazing to me how many pediatric nurses came from alcohoic famlies. I think we all go back and try to save that little kid. Times are different than they were in the fifties. Young alcoholics become old men and women and their children stand at their bedsides creating their own closures. Alcohol will kill you in amost humiliating way.

Janitw

Mallow!! What a story. My eyes welled with tears. How sad. Most alcoholics do die alone and most families give up or have given up on them a long time ago. I never gave up on my husband but with this divorce I have no choice but to throw in the towel. It is sad, sad, sad. Will my children ever go to him. I doubt it. He mentally abused them throughout the years and they are adults now and have gone no contact with him and his hooch. And since coming to this site I have learned that he will pay a HUGE price one of these days. Take care everyone.

Janit

BSPGirl

Maybe you're at the point you kinda wish a painful death to him, I dunno, I can imagine tho but yeah it looks to me like you've given up hope/trying, bad sign.

Marte

FormerDoormat

I don't think MTMama has given up on her husband or that she wishes him to die or to have a painful death, I think the question she's asking should be taken at face value:

She wants to know what's in store for her husband in the way of pain/suffering/symptoms and what's in store for her emotionally if she should witness his last days.

Perhaps the best way to answer that question, MT, is to do a Google search on the terms "end-stage alcoholism." That's what I did when I felt my AB was nearing the end of his life due to alcoholism. I'll pass on what I learned from my research, but it's been a while so I'm just going from memory (you'd be wise to do some research for yourself). Here are some possible scenarios:

- Liver failure which leads to ascites (a swollen belly), jaundice, weakness, confusion, coma, then death.

- Esophageal varice which leads to a bleeding artery in the throat (symptoms include vomiting small amounts of blood and an upset stomach) and finally to a full-fledged rupture which causes projectile vomiting of large amounts of blood, death immediately thereafter, and a corpse that appears green in color. I've witnessed this event and it's a horrible way to die and horrible event to witness (hence my suggestion to call an ambulance in an attempt to get him to a hospital because it's a very messy way to die).

- Werke-Korsakoff's disease which leads to confusion, memory problems, dimentia, then death.

- Alcohol poisoning which leads to confusion, vomiting, coma, then death.

- Stomach ulcer which leads to bleeding inside the stomach, projectile vomiting of large quantities of blood, then death (another horrible and messy way to die).

There's more, but that's all I can remember from memory. I hope this is the information you were looking for. Only God knows when your husband will be called home. Until then, I believe that as long as there is a breath in his body, there's a chance that he can get well.

I thought all was lost with my boyfriend when he ended up in the ICU on life support--even the doctors didn't expect him to live--but he proved to have a much stronger will to live than any of us thought. Today nearly one year later, he's doing remarkably well.

None of us have crystal balls and none of us can predict the future. All you have is today, so make the best decisions you can. There's nothing wrong with turning your husband's care over to professionals and protecting yourself from further harm.

Sending prayers for you and your husband. May you both find peace.

mtmama

Maybe I have given up. It sounds like some of you are reading things between the lines that I didn't know were there. I am just tired of the whole thing...my first choice is for him to get better. But, that is something he hasn't been able to do. He has tried, but has never been sober in 16 years for more than 5 months. so most of my life with him has been with him being drunk. I have never been to an Alanon meeting, but I did look up the local meeting schedule today because it sounds like that is helping so many of you here at SR. Thanks for your care and concern

Latte

About five years ago I got in touch with my birth father (I was adopted). I got to talk to him, but spoke to his mother at least three or four times. I emailed his son occasionally and about six months ago I got a return email that said my father had died. Basically he died from abusing his body for years and years. My half brother said that it was the most painful thing he had ever watched.

My birthmother spoke of her mother and watching her die from complications of alcoholism.

The stories that I was told help me in my recovery process. I don't want my children to watch me die of my disease.

mallowcup

I think it is about preparing ourselves for what we see happening and can't do a single thing about.

DesertEyes

Hi there mtmama,

Whatever you decide to do, whatever you are feeling we are here for you. I too became very tired of my ex-wifes addiction. Around here we call it being "sick and tired of being sick and tired".

Let us know how you're doing, and what you think of the Alanon meeting. While you are there check out their literature, they have lots of wonderful books and a zillion little pamphlets with all kinds of good tips.

Mike

escape artist

you could try asking him what HE wants to do. as a doctor i am sure he is well aware that something is clearly wrong. you could tell him that you think he is dying and maybe offer suggestions (once) of what he might want to do. In any case, you will still need to take care of yourself and Al-Anon will surely help you "come down from the ledge". My prayers are with you.