when to say enough is enough

Old 08-26-2006, 12:59 PM
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Question when to say enough is enough

i don't know where to begin. this is going to be a long one.

First of all, my dad was an alcoholic. An abusive one. Not to me, but to my mom. My mom was a drug addict, mostly prescription drugs, Xanax, and also Quaaludes. She also did cocaine and smoked pot. I was raised primarily by my grandparents. My grandfather also had a drinking problem, but one I rarely actually saw. I did spend some years with my parents though and I do remember lots of what happened. My dad beating my mom, chasing her down the street or into a canal to get away from him. I remember my mom driving me home to my grandma while high and praying I would get home in one piece. I told myself I would never become like them. My mom did eventually get clean for quite a long time. It took my dad about 20 yrs to get clean, which he is mostly now and has gotten a Phd in social work. A few years back, about 3 actually, my mom went back on Xanax and ended up back in rehab. She is fine now. So, as you can see my family is full of addicts. My ex husband wasn't quite an addict but did drink alot and tried numerous drugs. Needless to say I am no longer with him.

My main thing right now is my brother. He is 25. He started drinking at 18 and graduated to drugs about a year later. He has had 3 DUI's and been to about 6 different rehab centers around the country. He has also been to halfway houses. The longest he has been sober is 6 months and that was entirely in rehab. I am talking in patient care. The kind that costs thousands. He gets out for a week and is right back to drinking abd doing crack.

My mom and I finally got back on speaking terms after her last outpatient stint. During this time we got pretty close again. My brother lived with her though so his "problems" were constantly in her face and mine. His banging on the door at all hours, my home and hers. Yeah, my husband loves it. So do my kids. I would have her spend the night with me to get her away from him. She has tried everything with him. Therapists, all the rehab, kicking him out. Nothing works, he still comes back til she lets him in. He is fine for 2 days and then it starts all over again. He has been in jail a few times and was facing alot of jail time at one point and his lawyer worked it all out for him. He squeaked by on probation.

When my husband and I decided to move to another part of the state I wanted my mom to come along and stay with us. And, as long as my brother was sober I said if he wanted to move into an apartment nearby I would at least take him grocery shopping and to pay his bills. He has no checking account and no car and no license anyway. But, I also told him if he started drinking and doing drugs again he wasn't welcome in my home and I wouldn't do anything for him. Well, we moved, they found him an apartment and moved up two months later. Two days after coming here he went out and got screwed up. Against my better judgment I went out and picked him up because I was afraid he would end up dead on the side of the road. He was riding a bike and didn't know the area and was 5 miles from his apartment when we found him. He smelled so bad. It made me ill. Since then, it has been this way every couple of days. But, my mom keeps wanting me to do things for him. Like take him grocery shopping and to pay his bills. Let him come over once or twice a week to have dinner and sometimes spend the night. While he is here she waits on him hand and foot. She makes his dinner plate for him, he watches TV with her in her room, he follows her outside to smoke every few minutes. If she is downstairs more than 2 minutes he is down here asking where she is.

My husband is tired of it, so are my kids. My daughter is 17 and can't stand him. I don't want to have anything to do with him anymore. I honestly don't think he wants to get help anymore. Anytime my mom mentions going to a meeting with him he won't. When she says to call his therapist, who will still talk to him, he won't. He will walk to the store to get beer or to the corner for drugs, but asks us to bring him soda if he runs out. I am really tired of feeling used and my mom is getting pissy with me about it. "He is family" she says. "HBe is my son" she says. Well, he is not MY son and I don't want to keep doing all this stuff for him. It disrupts my life every few days and we are tired of it.

When can I say enough?? When is it okay to walk away? I am physically tired of this.
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Old 08-26-2006, 01:25 PM
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hi noahsally and welcome to SR

It's slow around here on weekends, so don't get discouraged if you don't get too many responses right away.

I reached a point where I was ready to say "enough" and then took steps to get my life on the track I wanted and needed. That meant setting boundaries and sticking to them. I have learned in taking care of myself that I am not responsible for taking care OF anyone else. I can care for them, but if they are capable (that doesn't mean they are willing, but that is not my responsibility) of taking care of themselves, I am not obligated to do so. If I choose to do so, that is my choice.

I learned a lot about detachment, boundaries and self worth in the rooms of Al-Anon. I also have individual counseling. One of the great things about face to face meetings in Al-Anon is the support I get from others who understand and do not question my desire to have my own life. If Al-Anon does not appeal to you, there are other programs out there that offer support to the families of alcholics.

Have you read Co-dependent no More?

Others will be along to offer you much wisdom and support. IMO you are not wrong to want a life away from the chaos addiction can bring. Good luck and keep coming back!
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Old 08-26-2006, 01:26 PM
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Whenever you are ready and want to.
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Old 08-26-2006, 01:28 PM
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i answered on your other thread
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Old 08-26-2006, 01:37 PM
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thank you and sorry i posted twice!! i didn't think the first one made it through! i already know the answers I am looking for. Like I said, I have been through this over and over. I did cut my mom out of my life for 6 months last time she relapsed as I just couldn't deal with her disrupting my own family anymore at 2AM. Or wondering if she would really kill herself this time. Now, she and I are okay and she is doing just fine I am being forced to deal with my brother even though I want to cut him off completely. Because my mom lives with me and she wants to continue to help him with certain things I feel like I have to do it in order to keep the peace. To make matters worse, she hasn't found a job yet so she has no money coming in and no way to get her own place, no car so they are both dependent on me. I would bend over backwards for her, but I don't want to for him as long as he continues to destroy himself. I am definitely a peace keeper. I will avoid confrontation at all costs. I have always been that way, especially with my mother. Mostly because I wanted whatever time we shared to be nice. So, I do have some things to work on, I would probably benefit from seeing a therapist myself. I just feel like I shouldn't have to lose my mom in order to cut off my brother and I know it isn't going to work out that way.
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Old 08-26-2006, 01:38 PM
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http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...oundaries.html

The above link is a link to an a post about boundaries. There's also a link in my signature line. I'd recommend you start reading all you can about codependancy (Codependant no more by Melody Beattie is a good one) and read and set boundaries.
Seems to me that you've been trying to set boundaries (or bargain) but you have no consequence for the broken boundary.

It's like this (as harsh as it sounds).
You have your life. Your mother has hers. And your brother has his. Each of you are responsible for your own actions, decisions, etc.
So if you are truly ready to stop the insanity - you can! Anytime you are ready.
And you have to learn to realize that you are not responsible for your Mom's feelings (or guilt trips). If she chooses your brother, than that is her choice!!

Has your Mom ever attended any Alanon meetings? Have you? Maybe that could be a good start as well.
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Old 08-26-2006, 01:42 PM
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Enabling is doing for others what they are capable of doing for themselves.

I guess at this point, I'm thinking that you are now financially providing for both your Mom and your brother?
It's time to set some real boundaries for yourself.
You mentioned (I think in the other post) that you feel used. Well, I'd venture to say that it's because you ARE being used.

Your daughter can't stand your brother. I'm betting that this is really causing some major issues in your marriage as well.

I think that you need to really decide what you want - what you are willing to accept and not accept - set some boundaries - and start living YOUR life for YOU!
Each of you are responsible for your own decisions, thoughts, and feelings. And seems to me that you are carrying most of the load when it comes to the "responsible" word.
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Old 08-26-2006, 01:48 PM
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my mom has attended so many meetings including Alanon. I have only been to a couple of meetings. It wasn't for me. I like doing this better than anything in person and am thinking about seeing a therapist for alot of reasons. As I posted in my other thread(didn't know that one made it through too), I feel like since I asked my mom to come stay with us and she has no job yet, no car, and no money coming in I am stuck. I am so afraid she will move in with him and eventually go back to doing drugs herself. I am such a peace keeper and I have always been that way. So much so that it ends up hurting me. I absolutely hate confrontation. Especially with my mom. She has this way of making me feel 5 again. She used to have me in tears all the time growing up. She still has that affect on me now. A few weeks ago we had a huge blowout about all this. It was like no matter what I said, I was wrong because he is "family" and you don't turn your back on your family. What about when your family is hurting you. Physically or mentally or emotionally, it doesn't matter. I still feel hurt and used.

I will check out that link, thank you.
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Old 08-26-2006, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by noahsally
! i already know the answers I am looking for.
What are they?



Because my mom lives with me and she wants to continue to help him with certain things I feel like I have to do it in order to keep the peace.
That is a choice and you can choose to do it or not.

I started out thinking I could find the magic cure for getting AH to behave the way I thought was right. To get him "to see the light" or the error of his ways, and how my AH's life would be better if he could just see he should stop drinking. I now understand that is none of my dam* business. He is an adult and can lead his life any way he wants to. It is my choice to share that life with him or not. I chose to not. It all comes down to choices and I am learning I have so many. It's been incredibly liberating.
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Old 08-26-2006, 01:54 PM
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Hi there NoahSally, and welcome to SoberRecovery,

I noticed your thread got posted twice, so I moved all the posts together into just one thread to reduce confusion.

Mike
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Old 08-26-2006, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by noahsally
my mom has attended so many meetings including Alanon. I have only been to a couple of meetings. It wasn't for me. I like doing this better than anything in person and am thinking about seeing a therapist for alot of reasons. As I posted in my other thread(didn't know that one made it through too), I feel like since I asked my mom to come stay with us and she has no job yet, no car, and no money coming in I am stuck. I am so afraid she will move in with him and eventually go back to doing drugs herself. I am such a peace keeper and I have always been that way. So much so that it ends up hurting me. I absolutely hate confrontation. Especially with my mom. She has this way of making me feel 5 again. She used to have me in tears all the time growing up. She still has that affect on me now. A few weeks ago we had a huge blowout about all this. It was like no matter what I said, I was wrong because he is "family" and you don't turn your back on your family. What about when your family is hurting you. Physically or mentally or emotionally, it doesn't matter. I still feel hurt and used.

I will check out that link, thank you.
Your Mum is enabling your brother (and trying to get you to help her), if she doesn't stop he will never learn to take responsibility for his own actions.

I take it you and your husband own your home and your mother is a guest?
You, your husband and your daughter have the right to choose who is a guest in your home. You can say no to both your mother and your brother, they might well get angry but it is their anger and not yours to deal with.

You can't save your brother, the same way you can't save your mother.
The posts above regarding boundaries are great advice, although it's hard getting the up and running, I'm in the process of doing it myself and it's hard and a bit scary too in a way, venturing out into the unknown, all I know is I don't want to be a doormat anymore and my feelings count too, so do yours and your husbands and your daughters.

If your mother wants to move out and live with your brother, who are you to stop her, her decision.

"Co dependant No More" is a huge eye opener, I bought it a couple of weeks ago (for £1.80 on Amazon, lol) and I'm in the middle of reading it for the second time.

Good luck xxx
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Old 08-26-2006, 04:46 PM
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thank you all so much. i am still going round and round with my mom. she is staying with my brother tonight and probably tomorrow too. as for our living arrangement, my mom lives with me, my husband, my daughter, and my son. it is our house, yes. she was supposed to find a job and give us $400 a month, which i could care less about. my brother lives on his own and has about $4500 a month coming in. No, he does not work, this money is from dividends and i get it too. It is for being a Seminole indian. So, he does support himself, but my mom manages his money. She doles it out to him for his bills and groceries and gives him $100 at a time for spending money usually. Sometimes he keeps more than that, maybe $300 and the next day it is gone. Spent on drinking and drugs. Then, two days later when he is feeling sorry for himself and depressed we are supposed to let him come over and stay for a night or two.

It isn't that I want to save my brother, I know I can't. I just didn;t want things to turn out like this with my mom and me and I feel like I have no choice but to just let go of both of them.

Yes, my husband is fed up completely. So is my daughter, who is 17 and starting to not like my mom too much either. And, my mom keeps throwing it in my face, "Just wait til DD turns 18, just wait til she gets older, you'll see". It is almsot like she hopes my DD has a problems like my brother so she can say, "I told you so". She has been very very cruel to me today. I guess I am going to just have to choose my family over my mom and brother. Which shouldn't be a hard decision. I just am so sad over the fact I got my mom back 2 yrs ago and now it is all getting torn apart again because of him and how she chooses to handle him. She thinks I am the one who is wrong for saying, "Cut him off and see what happens". She is afraid he will end up on the streets or dead. Well, I don't want him to die either, but there is a limit!

Thanks again to everyone. I appreciate it so much.
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