Happenings....
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ohio
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Happenings....
Well, yesterday was "push-button" day (Tuesday) at my house. At least we are getting into a "schedule" I can understand. My "A" is trying really hard to not drink...it's evident. Does that mean he knows he has a problem? Who knows?
We've been on the same roller coaster for several weeks now, and I'm beginning to see a pattern. He drinks on Saturday night (as much as he can hold, before he can't stay up any later). That's usually the worse, and is usually when he trashes something. This past Saturday, one of my daughters asked me to go down to the basement family room to watch a movie with her about 11:00 p.m. I knew my "A" would be coming in from the garage sometime soon after that, and was concerned as to how he would be. But, I'm trying so hard not to let his problem affect me....so, heck, I watched the movie with her, trying very hard not to hear him come in and "do his thing", before going to bed. I've been extremely sick for the last 2 weeks, (nasty cough, laryngitis, sinusitis, vomiting, diarrhea, headache, sorethroat--you name it!), so I've been sleeping on the couch so my coughing doesn't keep him awake. (He won't let me cough in bed!) So I know he wasn't expecting me to be in bed when he got up there. Anyways, I ignored him. And you know--he finally went to bed, whether I agonized over it or not! And he didn't really destroy anything!
This after a rough week last week, where he hardly talked to me until Friday, which was the day I celebrated my birthday (it's leap year, so didn't really have one this year). I guess he felt he needed to be nice at least for that, so he took me antiquing for the day. I had laryngitis, and couldn't talk, which was a good excuse for not carrying on a conversation--since I was "miffed":shades: because he didn't speak to me all week. He treated me really nice, which was a relief.
I was busy with a competition for one of my daughters all night Friday night and all day Saturday, so didn't really have to be around him much, thankfully. But he didn't drink Sunday or Monday, and was still nice, though understandably irky--which he always is when he's not drinking. As of Monday, I decided I was going to get to remain in the land of the living--I'm finally getting better! But Tuesday is push-button day. The day he tries to make me mad, so I'm to blame for him letting down and drinking on Tuesday (since he's trying to hold out for the weekend). Well, he got into an altercation with my 19 year-old handicapped daughter. She has temper tantrums, and this one was a good one! He provoked it, and made it worse, and by the time it was over and she left for work, I was about ready to call the cops on one of them--she really was hurting by the time it was over, from him holding her down to keep her from hurting herself or someone/thing else, and him spanking her way too much--which only made it worse. Bad situation, and my getting involved only made him yell at me and say I was making it worse--so I plugged my ears and prayed.
But he didn't really hold anything against me, not that he should, but usually does. So, I didn't get the silent treatment, or rude remarks or anything, and I was prepared to keep a level head. He called (later in the day) to ask why his credit card wouldn't work--I have to take care of all the bills, since I do the books for our business, and I told him because he probably had reached his limit on it. He said how can that be? I said, because I've only been able to make minimum payments for several months, which he should know, but hasn't cared enough to sell more jobs, and/or manage the ones going on, so we are now broke. He's spending more than $1000. a month on that card, and can't cover it. But it's my fault? I wasn't going to take the blame! So I stated the facts, he got frustrated and hung up on me. I thought--fine, I still can't do anything about it. Well, believe it or not--he got over it without being furious at me. And yes, he was drunk when I got home last night--but in his mind it wasn't my fault--because I didn't let him push my buttons! Finally!
I know this is long, but I've started several messages this week, and couldn't finish them because of interruptions. So, am I doing this right?
Thanks for listening,
Lyn
We've been on the same roller coaster for several weeks now, and I'm beginning to see a pattern. He drinks on Saturday night (as much as he can hold, before he can't stay up any later). That's usually the worse, and is usually when he trashes something. This past Saturday, one of my daughters asked me to go down to the basement family room to watch a movie with her about 11:00 p.m. I knew my "A" would be coming in from the garage sometime soon after that, and was concerned as to how he would be. But, I'm trying so hard not to let his problem affect me....so, heck, I watched the movie with her, trying very hard not to hear him come in and "do his thing", before going to bed. I've been extremely sick for the last 2 weeks, (nasty cough, laryngitis, sinusitis, vomiting, diarrhea, headache, sorethroat--you name it!), so I've been sleeping on the couch so my coughing doesn't keep him awake. (He won't let me cough in bed!) So I know he wasn't expecting me to be in bed when he got up there. Anyways, I ignored him. And you know--he finally went to bed, whether I agonized over it or not! And he didn't really destroy anything!
This after a rough week last week, where he hardly talked to me until Friday, which was the day I celebrated my birthday (it's leap year, so didn't really have one this year). I guess he felt he needed to be nice at least for that, so he took me antiquing for the day. I had laryngitis, and couldn't talk, which was a good excuse for not carrying on a conversation--since I was "miffed":shades: because he didn't speak to me all week. He treated me really nice, which was a relief.
I was busy with a competition for one of my daughters all night Friday night and all day Saturday, so didn't really have to be around him much, thankfully. But he didn't drink Sunday or Monday, and was still nice, though understandably irky--which he always is when he's not drinking. As of Monday, I decided I was going to get to remain in the land of the living--I'm finally getting better! But Tuesday is push-button day. The day he tries to make me mad, so I'm to blame for him letting down and drinking on Tuesday (since he's trying to hold out for the weekend). Well, he got into an altercation with my 19 year-old handicapped daughter. She has temper tantrums, and this one was a good one! He provoked it, and made it worse, and by the time it was over and she left for work, I was about ready to call the cops on one of them--she really was hurting by the time it was over, from him holding her down to keep her from hurting herself or someone/thing else, and him spanking her way too much--which only made it worse. Bad situation, and my getting involved only made him yell at me and say I was making it worse--so I plugged my ears and prayed.
But he didn't really hold anything against me, not that he should, but usually does. So, I didn't get the silent treatment, or rude remarks or anything, and I was prepared to keep a level head. He called (later in the day) to ask why his credit card wouldn't work--I have to take care of all the bills, since I do the books for our business, and I told him because he probably had reached his limit on it. He said how can that be? I said, because I've only been able to make minimum payments for several months, which he should know, but hasn't cared enough to sell more jobs, and/or manage the ones going on, so we are now broke. He's spending more than $1000. a month on that card, and can't cover it. But it's my fault? I wasn't going to take the blame! So I stated the facts, he got frustrated and hung up on me. I thought--fine, I still can't do anything about it. Well, believe it or not--he got over it without being furious at me. And yes, he was drunk when I got home last night--but in his mind it wasn't my fault--because I didn't let him push my buttons! Finally!
I know this is long, but I've started several messages this week, and couldn't finish them because of interruptions. So, am I doing this right?
Thanks for listening,
Lyn
Southern through and through
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: In.....trouble :-)
Posts: 1,453
Good for you, Lyn! I'm no expert, but if he didn't get you into 'the dance' with him, then you ARE doing something right. I'm impressed with your reactions or LACK or reactions. You maintained control of your emotions and I congratulate you.
I think I've finally realized that when I do let the A push my buttons, I'm only hurting myself (and probably giving them some sort of satisfaction. )
Sounds like you have a lot to deal with. And every time (even if it seems like a small something) you do something knowing YOU are working YOUR program, well I say.....
"Here's to Lyn!!!! YOU GO GIRL!"...
Keeping you and your family in my prayers,
Hangin' In
I think I've finally realized that when I do let the A push my buttons, I'm only hurting myself (and probably giving them some sort of satisfaction. )
Sounds like you have a lot to deal with. And every time (even if it seems like a small something) you do something knowing YOU are working YOUR program, well I say.....
"Here's to Lyn!!!! YOU GO GIRL!"...
Keeping you and your family in my prayers,
Hangin' In
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 444
Thanks
Hangin'In
Thanks so much for your supportive encouragement. Sometimes I wonder what is the right way to handle things. I'm not sure if my lack of reactions was due entirely on working the plan--some of it may have been from too much medicine and being sick. But anyways, it worked better than what has worked in the past. Teehee.
Lyn
Thanks so much for your supportive encouragement. Sometimes I wonder what is the right way to handle things. I'm not sure if my lack of reactions was due entirely on working the plan--some of it may have been from too much medicine and being sick. But anyways, it worked better than what has worked in the past. Teehee.
Lyn
Southern through and through
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: In.....trouble :-)
Posts: 1,453
Lyn,
Since being in Al Anon and being around my A who goes to AA, I've heard all these neat sayings that I try to remember.
After reading your post and you saying that some of your lack of reacting might just be due to being sick and medications, I thought of the saying I've heard.
"That's just God doing for you what you couldn't do for yourself."
I think God would probably love to 'sedate' me sometimes just so I'll keep my mouth shut!!!
Keep hanging in there, gal.
Love,
Hangin' In
Since being in Al Anon and being around my A who goes to AA, I've heard all these neat sayings that I try to remember.
After reading your post and you saying that some of your lack of reacting might just be due to being sick and medications, I thought of the saying I've heard.
"That's just God doing for you what you couldn't do for yourself."
I think God would probably love to 'sedate' me sometimes just so I'll keep my mouth shut!!!
Keep hanging in there, gal.
Love,
Hangin' In
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lyn_blossom78,
Sometimes when we are learning not to react it's hard to tell what we should react to and what we shouldn't. Not reacting doesn't mean we should allow ourselves to be abused or allow our children to be abused. It also doesn't mean that we don't hold others accountable for their actions.
It sounds like you're living in fear on a daily basis.
IMPACT OF CO-DEPENDENCY TREATMENT ON BATTERED WOMEN
Most often, the partners of batterers in chemical dependency treatment are themselves directed into self-help programs such as Al-Anon or co-dependency groups. Like other traditional treatment responses, however, these resources were not designed to meet the needs of victims of domestic violence and often inadvertently cause harm to battered women.
The goals of Al-Anon and co-dependency treatment typically include helping family members of alcoholics to get "self-focused", practice emotional detachment from the substance abusers, and identify and stop their enabling or “co-dependent” behaviors, that is, to stop protecting their partners from the harmful consequences of addiction. Group members are encouraged to define their personal boundaries, set limits on their partners' behaviors, and stop protecting their partners from the harmful consequences of the addiction. While these strategies and goals may be very useful for women whose partners are not batterers, for battered women such changes will likely result in an escalation of abuse, including physical violence.
Battered women are often very attuned to their partners' moods as a way to assess their level of danger. They focus on their partners' needs and “cover up” for them as part of their survival strategy. Battered women's behaviors are not symptomatic of some underlying "dysfunction," but are the life-saving skills necessary to protect them and their children from further harm. When battered women are encouraged to stop these behaviors through self-focusing and detachment, they are, in essence, being asked to stop doing the things that may be keeping them and their children most safe.
Battered women whose partners are chemically dependent should be given accurate and complete information about available resources so that they can make informed choices and set realistic expectations about the potential benefits of these different sources of help. It is critical that they understand the purposes of Al-Anon and co- dependency groups and the limitations of these forums as sources of accurate information regarding safety-related concerns. They should also be advised of the availability of local domestic violence programs and referred to these services for assistance. Empowering women with accurate information will help them make decision that best meet their individual needs.
Here is a link. http://www.letswrap.com/dvinfo/alcohol.htm
Hugs,
MG
Sometimes when we are learning not to react it's hard to tell what we should react to and what we shouldn't. Not reacting doesn't mean we should allow ourselves to be abused or allow our children to be abused. It also doesn't mean that we don't hold others accountable for their actions.
It sounds like you're living in fear on a daily basis.
IMPACT OF CO-DEPENDENCY TREATMENT ON BATTERED WOMEN
Most often, the partners of batterers in chemical dependency treatment are themselves directed into self-help programs such as Al-Anon or co-dependency groups. Like other traditional treatment responses, however, these resources were not designed to meet the needs of victims of domestic violence and often inadvertently cause harm to battered women.
The goals of Al-Anon and co-dependency treatment typically include helping family members of alcoholics to get "self-focused", practice emotional detachment from the substance abusers, and identify and stop their enabling or “co-dependent” behaviors, that is, to stop protecting their partners from the harmful consequences of addiction. Group members are encouraged to define their personal boundaries, set limits on their partners' behaviors, and stop protecting their partners from the harmful consequences of the addiction. While these strategies and goals may be very useful for women whose partners are not batterers, for battered women such changes will likely result in an escalation of abuse, including physical violence.
Battered women are often very attuned to their partners' moods as a way to assess their level of danger. They focus on their partners' needs and “cover up” for them as part of their survival strategy. Battered women's behaviors are not symptomatic of some underlying "dysfunction," but are the life-saving skills necessary to protect them and their children from further harm. When battered women are encouraged to stop these behaviors through self-focusing and detachment, they are, in essence, being asked to stop doing the things that may be keeping them and their children most safe.
Battered women whose partners are chemically dependent should be given accurate and complete information about available resources so that they can make informed choices and set realistic expectations about the potential benefits of these different sources of help. It is critical that they understand the purposes of Al-Anon and co- dependency groups and the limitations of these forums as sources of accurate information regarding safety-related concerns. They should also be advised of the availability of local domestic violence programs and referred to these services for assistance. Empowering women with accurate information will help them make decision that best meet their individual needs.
Here is a link. http://www.letswrap.com/dvinfo/alcohol.htm
Hugs,
MG
Last edited by Morning Glory; 03-07-2003 at 11:53 AM.
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 444
Wow!
MG:
Yours are the answers I've been begging for! I know it's bad. When I talk to close friends about it, they agree they are bad, but they "know" my husband well enough that they don't believe he would do anything really bad. And right now, his state of mind is better than it was a year ago, so it looks ever-so-much better to me too, so I deal with it.
Other than spankings that I believe are way worse than they should be in my opinion, he has never hit my kids--or me. Though he has shoved me. My handicapped daughter was way out of control with her temper tantrum, so he had to hold her down. Where he went wrong, was spanking her, because it didn't do any good, and so he just did it some more, thinking it was going to calm her down? As a child, my own father (and his) was far more abusive--physically. (We were taken away and put in a foster home). So, as an adult, I wonder sometimes what is right and wrong, though I've never abused my kids.
I've been trying to look at my situation with as open of a mind as I can, and I still don't know what to do. The boundary idea sounds good, but, as you said, does not always work for us when we are in survival mode. When he is not drinking as much and as often, he is not like this. But when he was drinking constantly last year, I wouldn't have put anything past him! At that time, leaving him didn't even seem safe! Still, most of what I've learned here does apply--I need to work on me. Some of my fear, including fear to stand up for myself may stem from my childhood, and sometimes I wonder if I really should be as afraid as I am. My reaction to the way he acts, or the way I think he is acting may be wrong. After watching my father, and then I see so much of him in my husband, sometimes I think he will be a certain way, because that's the way my dad was. Though my husband has done enough to make me believe he would do more--does that make sense?
Well, thank you so much! I will take heed to what you are saying, and re-analyze all this. My kids are not as fearful as I am, though they are more than they should be. So, uh, how bad is too bad?
Lyn
Yours are the answers I've been begging for! I know it's bad. When I talk to close friends about it, they agree they are bad, but they "know" my husband well enough that they don't believe he would do anything really bad. And right now, his state of mind is better than it was a year ago, so it looks ever-so-much better to me too, so I deal with it.
Other than spankings that I believe are way worse than they should be in my opinion, he has never hit my kids--or me. Though he has shoved me. My handicapped daughter was way out of control with her temper tantrum, so he had to hold her down. Where he went wrong, was spanking her, because it didn't do any good, and so he just did it some more, thinking it was going to calm her down? As a child, my own father (and his) was far more abusive--physically. (We were taken away and put in a foster home). So, as an adult, I wonder sometimes what is right and wrong, though I've never abused my kids.
I've been trying to look at my situation with as open of a mind as I can, and I still don't know what to do. The boundary idea sounds good, but, as you said, does not always work for us when we are in survival mode. When he is not drinking as much and as often, he is not like this. But when he was drinking constantly last year, I wouldn't have put anything past him! At that time, leaving him didn't even seem safe! Still, most of what I've learned here does apply--I need to work on me. Some of my fear, including fear to stand up for myself may stem from my childhood, and sometimes I wonder if I really should be as afraid as I am. My reaction to the way he acts, or the way I think he is acting may be wrong. After watching my father, and then I see so much of him in my husband, sometimes I think he will be a certain way, because that's the way my dad was. Though my husband has done enough to make me believe he would do more--does that make sense?
Well, thank you so much! I will take heed to what you are saying, and re-analyze all this. My kids are not as fearful as I am, though they are more than they should be. So, uh, how bad is too bad?
Lyn
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Lyn,
I would consider spanking a 19 year-old handicapped daughter abuse. It's what I do for a living. I work with developmentally disabled adults with very high behaviors. I also work with teenagers with very high behaviors. I can understand holding her down until she calms down. If I knew you and heard your story I would by law be forced to report it as abuse.
I can also understand your husband losing control in the situation. It has taken a lot of training for me to learn not to lose control when I'm hit or in a dangerous situation with my clients.
Learning not to react to your A is a good thing even if he is abusive. The part that bothers me is not reacting and denying the abuse and the fear that you live with. Sticking up for yourself may place you in a dangerous position right now so I wouldn't suggest that you change what you are doing.
Would it be possible for you to get some counseling?
Hugs,
MG
I would consider spanking a 19 year-old handicapped daughter abuse. It's what I do for a living. I work with developmentally disabled adults with very high behaviors. I also work with teenagers with very high behaviors. I can understand holding her down until she calms down. If I knew you and heard your story I would by law be forced to report it as abuse.
I can also understand your husband losing control in the situation. It has taken a lot of training for me to learn not to lose control when I'm hit or in a dangerous situation with my clients.
Learning not to react to your A is a good thing even if he is abusive. The part that bothers me is not reacting and denying the abuse and the fear that you live with. Sticking up for yourself may place you in a dangerous position right now so I wouldn't suggest that you change what you are doing.
Would it be possible for you to get some counseling?
Hugs,
MG
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cleaverville
Posts: 2,898
Is it possible that because you lived in fear as a child that all this seems normal? It may be all you know, but let me tell you it is not normal to be afraid...at all. Not even a little.
If you are being manipulated, controlled and abused it is because you are allowing it. Boundaries would change that.
Once I told Ward after he destroyed a coffee table while he was drunk that I would not be leaving today but I would not be living this way much longer. I said that the next day after I allowed him to try to repair the table by himself. I did NOT clean it up and I did NOT make it easier on him. I also did NOT berate him about it. He could see what he trashed. That is a boundary. I was telling him calmly that I would not continue to live this way. And I wouldn't...he still drinks but that is the last piece of furniture he destroyed and he hasn't tried to burn the house down in a long time while he was cooking in the middle of the night either.
You may not be able to control him but you can certainly have a say in what you will or won't allow in your life.
I HAVE been where you are, Ward and the Beav had a knock down drag out in my living room more than once. The Beav was just staying with us after rehab and I would NEVER have allowed a repeat...not even close. If we cannot all live under the same roof someone has to go. That could be me or it could be one of them, but make no mistake...I refuse to live with it.
This is no dress rehearsal Lynn...you deserve to be happy!
Hugs,
JT
If you are being manipulated, controlled and abused it is because you are allowing it. Boundaries would change that.
Once I told Ward after he destroyed a coffee table while he was drunk that I would not be leaving today but I would not be living this way much longer. I said that the next day after I allowed him to try to repair the table by himself. I did NOT clean it up and I did NOT make it easier on him. I also did NOT berate him about it. He could see what he trashed. That is a boundary. I was telling him calmly that I would not continue to live this way. And I wouldn't...he still drinks but that is the last piece of furniture he destroyed and he hasn't tried to burn the house down in a long time while he was cooking in the middle of the night either.
You may not be able to control him but you can certainly have a say in what you will or won't allow in your life.
I HAVE been where you are, Ward and the Beav had a knock down drag out in my living room more than once. The Beav was just staying with us after rehab and I would NEVER have allowed a repeat...not even close. If we cannot all live under the same roof someone has to go. That could be me or it could be one of them, but make no mistake...I refuse to live with it.
This is no dress rehearsal Lynn...you deserve to be happy!
Hugs,
JT
Last edited by JT; 03-07-2003 at 02:31 PM.
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Location: Ohio
Posts: 444
Thanks!
You guys have given me a lot to swallow tonight!
MG--You wouldn't happen to know of a forum similar to this one that can help me learn better how to deal with my daughter's tantrums, would you? It is hard, and I don't want to minimize what my husband did, but I think he felt at a loss as to what to do. I did step in, and he did stop. That was good. He was mad at first that I got in the way of his disciplining, but I think he knew it was best. The place where she works has told us that as an adult acting this way, hitting us, biting us, and her siblings, that she could go to jail. Or they could give her drugs, which I'm against. She's very sensitive to side affects, and I don't want that for her. Any ideas would be appreciated.
I have to stress that he has never hit any of us (except spankings for the kids, which he hasn't done in a long time, since they are older--except for the other day), and he shoved me once. Mostly, he just leaves us with the impression that he would hurt us if we pushed him to far.
He does trash things, like JT talked about with Ward. That causes me great concern. I know a lot of my fear stems from my childhood. I still remember lying in bed while my Dad and Stepmom threw my large wood toy piano back and forth at each other over my bed with me in it, litterally destroying one of the few things that were mine that I loved. Bad memories.
I always cringe when I hear something going crash when he comes in--and shake in my shoes. I talked to my other daughters tonight, and they admit they do fear him, but not to the extent that I do. I know I have a lot of growing to do.
Thanks for your help.
Lyn
MG--You wouldn't happen to know of a forum similar to this one that can help me learn better how to deal with my daughter's tantrums, would you? It is hard, and I don't want to minimize what my husband did, but I think he felt at a loss as to what to do. I did step in, and he did stop. That was good. He was mad at first that I got in the way of his disciplining, but I think he knew it was best. The place where she works has told us that as an adult acting this way, hitting us, biting us, and her siblings, that she could go to jail. Or they could give her drugs, which I'm against. She's very sensitive to side affects, and I don't want that for her. Any ideas would be appreciated.
I have to stress that he has never hit any of us (except spankings for the kids, which he hasn't done in a long time, since they are older--except for the other day), and he shoved me once. Mostly, he just leaves us with the impression that he would hurt us if we pushed him to far.
He does trash things, like JT talked about with Ward. That causes me great concern. I know a lot of my fear stems from my childhood. I still remember lying in bed while my Dad and Stepmom threw my large wood toy piano back and forth at each other over my bed with me in it, litterally destroying one of the few things that were mine that I loved. Bad memories.
I always cringe when I hear something going crash when he comes in--and shake in my shoes. I talked to my other daughters tonight, and they admit they do fear him, but not to the extent that I do. I know I have a lot of growing to do.
Thanks for your help.
Lyn
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