pmaslan

Hi Welcome to SR...glad you found us.

I too met my ex-fiancee when he was drinking heavily. I never considered
at the time that he was an alcoholic, I just thought he liked to party.
As time went by his drinking increased, well not really, he just began to
be more open with me about it, he didn't hide the fact any longer
that he guzzled vodka from the bottle. I began to see just how much
he drank. Keep in mind that he was not abusive to me either, he was
a loving, happy drunk really. He drank daily, on weekends, all weekend
long. We never went out to dinner or anywhere with friends. The only
place we went was to a bar. I started alanon and continue to attend.
He lost his car, because spent so much money at the bar. (never had a dui as unbelievable as that is!)
He lost his job, he went to work on a Monday morning annilated!
He was fired from a wonderful federal government job.
He was hospitalized by ambulance 24 times in a 23 month time frame,
in patient, out patient a few times too.
I made him leave 15 months ago because I could not stand by and
watch the man I loved kill himself.
We were together a little less than 2.5 years.
I didn't want to leave either but I sure didn't want to live that way.

LIFEOUTTHERE

I think I probobly started out where you are now, but during our 7 years of marriage I have give and give and give to and for him. It has always been about him and his alcohol. I'm just got tired of giving.

You do what is best for you. I would never encourage you to leave him. I am just sharing my experience with you.

Cynay

I hope you did not take it as "leave your husband" because I would never tell someone to do that.

I understand that you love him, personally I treasure good relationships and will do almost anything to nurture them and help them grow. There is nothing more beautiful in this world in my opinion the the love between two people. I completely understand your wanting to stand by his side.

The only suggestion I have is that if you want to continue this relaitonship and still stay healthy and sane is to get educated... Al-anon, books, SR whatever you can get to understand how your being/going to be effected by this. I can already hear some things in your post that lead me to believe you have some codi tendencies.... one would be controling what he is doing.

With the bank issue I would probably set up seperate accounts now and then a joint account for the household bills and joint issues. I would remove him from my credit cards and be very careful about investing in joint items... just my thoughts.

Welcome and keep coming back, we really are glad your here.

Minx1969

My exabf was 29 when I met him..Since he is a musician I thought it was a lot of fun to go out and drink..

after 2 years in a relationship - it wasn't fun anymore..especially since he seemed to be chosing to go out and drink more and more without me..

all the time - he was still talking about a future of marriage and kids..

I had to accept the reality of the situation that his ACTIONS and HIS WORDS were too different things...

You need to put the mute button on his words - and look at his actions...

There is a lot of experience on this board...

Yes..there are some people in my Alanon group that do live with an active alcoholic..

I think that they have an amazing program that allows them to detach and take care of themselves and be able to do that..

So..if you want to stay with him - go to ALANON..i really can't think of a much better place then that..

In Alanon - you will also look at your part..Yes..many of us don't think we really have a part but we do...

MisplacedAustin

Thank you everyone for your responses.

Elizabeth - Yes I am relatively happy with my life right now, I miss my friends and family b/c we recently moved away from them and I have had a hard time making girlfriends in this area. But I have a real smile on my face most of the time, well other than PMS week. ;-)

As far as what are the things that restrict his drinking, I guess himself and awareness of his responsibilities like work and money, also if in public he does not like to get totally drunk and will start drinking water. I would like to add, I have never seen him buy or bring a bottle of liquor into our house neither have I seen him drink at a totally inappropriate time.

Jazzman - thankfully I know I cannot change him, I would love for him to be persuaded but I am quickly learning that that is not possible. Also - thank you very much for the link, that is exactly the type of information I am looking for!

ASpouse - I understand that I cannot change his mind or persuade him, but would giving him (or leaving laying around) a print off of information or book or pamphlet be enabling him? He does not think that alchoholism will always lead to a full demise of self (and Im not positive I do too) I am trying to learn more about that demise, I just want information, facts about it. Would sharing information that I find with him be controlling or enabling? I am not sure. It seems that with an alchoholic helping does not help. And in all honesty, I don't want to change him, but I do want him to be aware of the risks involved.

Karen - I do want to hear the truth, that is what I am looking for. I don't think a 100% prescription for a ruined life (which is what the original response seemed to be) is the truth. I may be wrong, and I would be willing to admit that, but right now I don't think it is a 100% certainy that things have to get to a point that I am happier without him than with him, I am not positive what is true, that is what I am trying to figure out.

ASpouse - My experience with alchoholics in the past (Grandmother, Mother, Stepfather) has not been the same as yours. Maybe I am wrong that this (or there's) is alchoholism (though there's was self-professed). None of them had to go to ER, or went to jail, lost weight or totally lost themselves or embarassed themselves more than the average person. I think most of us regardless of any addictions will embarass our selves (either sober or drunk) or stop eating or taking care of ourselves due to depression, shock or other "slump" in their lives. Nobody is perfect, regardless of whether they are afflicted with alchoholism or not. Maybe what I am describing in my familly members is a "functional alcoholic"?

Also, I hadn't mentioned how much he drank, and I do not know what you assume. I would say he drinks approximately a 6 to 12-pack of beer 2-3x a week and more (anywhere from 1-12 more) once or twice a week. He's a 200+ pound man so, he isn't really "always" drunk. Though I can definitely tell a difference in the mornings whether he has drank the night before or not, as he is much grumpier when he has been (especially when he has not gotten enough sleep). You are incorrect though as to his "Mr. Wonderful" he does not become that when he drinks (he may be better than "Mr. Grumpy" when he drinks) but he is at his best and is "My most wonderful man" when he is sober, hands down, no question about it. Not that he is mean when he drinks but he loses sense of priorities and reality. When he is sober he is very concientous.

Cynay - I know that I have once in the past been co-dependent traits and that I can be controlling. This is not the only board I post on and I have been on other boards discussing some of my controlling tendencies and working on them. I understand all of this is connected. I am here to work on myself. Can I ask thoguh what struck you as co-dependent in my posts? Not to rebute them, but to maybe gain some deeper insight into myself as I thought that I had rid myself of those tendencies. I am naturally controlling and often times don't even notice when I am being controlling, and I know that my controlling behaviour is an enabling behaviour, I am trying to understand it as much as possible in order to change my actions.

I know nobody said "leave your husband" but the responses to my original post were basically, I was where you were once, my life became a living hell then I left, now it's better. I don't know what else I should infer from those statements other than a warning, if you stay you will be miserable. Of course I don't want to be miserable. Therefore a natural thought progression would lead me to think about leaving or that at least the people who responded wished that they would've left when they were in my shoes.

My two primary goals for speaking on this forum are to

1) find out how to not enable or become co-dependent - which thanks to all of you I have received some resources, the thread that Jazzman left and Al-Anon. Are there any other books or websites that anybody can recommend?

2) Learn more about the phases/life cycle of alchoholism, hopefully including medical facts for me to be able to clearly understand my risk of facing as difficult of situations as many of you have detailed. Please let me know if you know of any resources. What is the national agency that would keep track of any alchohol/medical related issues?

Again, thank you all for your discussion. I am not trying to be hard headed, but I am having a hard time believing that I am destined to end up miserable with him. I am here to try and learn everything I can do to keep that from happening.

denny57

Between the living hell and I left, I would put tried to get him to see (for about 2 years) that alcohol was destroying his life and our life together. He didn't think so. Started taking care of myself. Left and now it's better. Just my experience.

ASpouse

Sure you can leave information around, you can also be honest and just give it to him to read. Why play games? He may read it, he probably won't. As long as either way it doesn't upset you no harm done. If you leave it and he tosses it away as "rubbish" you need to be OK with that. It's his decision.

In my humble opinion, you are trying to control him .... 100% completely, or at least that's the way it reads to me.

Missy

Stop trying to figure things out. You wont be able to do that. Live one day at a time. For some of us it is one hour at a time and have success in that.
Today I am feeling stronger because of this site but in a couple of hours when I walk once again through that front door, I just may meltdown. My days are like that but somewhere during all of this, I absorb. Some days I just read and read and never response as some of us are doing today.

Go with your gut... Get a Higher Power in action to help you fight those battles and if possible go to Al-anon and absolutely Stay Here...
Karen xo

LaTeeDa

I must respectfully disagree with this. Education is very empowering. Although knowing about something does not change it, the more you know, the better informed your decisions will be. Personally, I never want to stop trying to figure things out. I want to learn as much as I can about everything in my life for as long as I live. But, that's just me.

L

ASpouse

LTD ..... figuring stuff out is OK, as long as it's her stuff and not his. I think that's what Karen meant, unless I read it wrong.

LaTeeDa

Well, I think that's a gray area. Knowing about the progression of alcoholism, how addicts operate, etc. helps me to make better decisions about my own stuff. That's what I meant.

I can only take actions in regard to my stuff, but I can learn without regard to whose stuff it is. Make sense?

L

ASpouse

Sure it makes sense. I used to be that way too ..... I found it too easy to go back to my enabling ways though as long as my thinking was like that. So for my own sanity (and yes I am sane! LOL) I stopped doing that. If it didn't or doesn't directly affect me, I try to steer clear of it . For example, now that my H is in recovery, it's none of my business and I don't cross that line.

Jazzman

Good books would be, UNDER THE INFLUENCE by Milam & Ketcham and GETTING THEM SOBER - YOU CAN HELP by Toby Drews. Great for education about the disease. Co-Dependant No More and The Language of Letting Go by Melody Beattie. Good for learning about codependency, controlling, enabling, caretaker, and rescuing behavior.

Pluss the stickies at the top of this forum and the Al Anon forum have tons of info.

Here's a web site you could spen years reading.
http://www.niaaa.nih.gov/

MisplacedAustin

I am not trying to figure out his stuff, I don't know how to put it more clearly.

I am trying to find out what I am doing that may exacerbate our situation and what I can do differently. I know that regardless of what I am going to do he will do what he wants. I do not expect him to quit drinking b/c I no longer worry about him or b/c we don't share finances. At this point I fully expect him to continue drinking for the foreseeable future. I want to be happy though and since if I seperate my money from his, his drinking is not really affecting me, find a way to let the little things that do bother me not bother me instead of trying to change him (which is what I have been doing). I want to understand what my actions may bring about (i.e. whining that I don't want him to drink a shot of tequila very likely will only increase the amount he drinks or cause him to distance himself from me); I want to stop what I am doing.

I know Im never going to have all the answers, but I can and want to understand the situation as well as I can. And yes, by understanding how my actions change a situation I want to control my actions, is that ok? I know if I speed I will get a ticket, so I don't speed (even though I want to get somewhere faster) is that controlling the police officer by not giving him a reason to pull me over?

ASpouse, if I found materials that told him what I have been told here so far, I would completely expect him to throw them to the wayside, and I can't say at this point that I would be completely understanding of it. Thats why I am here I suppose.

I do find your post that I am being 100% controlling to be frustrating though. I am interested in your opinion but making a statement like that when I am not concious of being 100% controlling without any backup or guidance is just a stab at me. Constructive criticism is a good thing, and I am very open to it, but making blanket statements with no backup or advice is futile.

MisplacedAustin

How do you not care what someone you loves does? How can I not care that he is hurting himself?

These things go against my basic nature and I need information to support why I need to not care. How to not care. I love him, I want the best for him. I understand that giving all is not necessarily going to make him better. But how can I not worry that he may be hurt? I don't know how not to. I know it is MY worry that is upsetting me the most, and it is my issue.

Thank you.

MisplacedAustin

Funny side note - how I actually found this board was searching for stuff on Myers-Briggs test, I am an ESFJ - also known as the caretaker.

I think that being a caretaker to someone with an alcohol problem can create a bad situation. I am trying to learn how to go against who and what I am, this is not easy.

elizabeth1979

Sure, because its your actions and your reactions involved only.

The slippery slope is in believing that your re-actions have any effect on an alcholics beahvior. They simply do not, in most cases.

That is where the control comes in.
What I have learned in al-anaon is that any action I take or reaction I make that is designed to affect anothers behavior, is controlling. Its the belief that I somehow can make someoen else do what I want (or not do what I dont want) by my behavior.

Does that make sense?

elizabeth1979

Its not that I dont care. I will tell you, I love my ex. I cry sometimes still and worry sometimes that he may not be safe. For me, its not that I dont care anymore, its that I have accepted that I cant chnage any of his actions that may, and have, hurt him. I cant make him well, I cant save him from hurt, I cant spare his health. So, I have just learned how to handle my emotions and worry instead of them running my life...I have learned that I do not have to be an emotional hsotage to his addiction.

ASpouse

If you truly want to stop what you are doing, then stop. What's the problem? Your actions will not cause him to drink and conversely will not stop him from drinking. You didn't cause it, you can't cure it and you can't control it ...... very simple!

Why do you have to control your actions? Why not be yourself? If you are a controlling person, well hey, that's the way you are. You should not change yourself for another person, you will become resentful and bitter. He either loves you the way you are, or he doesn't. If you feel that your controlling issues are a problem for YOU, then go to a therapist and get some help. No one here will give you the answers you want to hear, I'm afraid. I think you want us to say:

"OK, do (a) ......... (b)........(c)....... and (d) and that should help you help your husband". Dear, that isn't going to happen for if we knew the answers, we'd all be doing it and there would be no need for this board, for Al Anon and all other recovery boards. We'd all be living with sober, well adjusted people. Does this make sense to you? My gut feeling is you will come back and say "no that's not what I mean?"

There is NOTHING you can do to make him drink less, drink more responsibly. The decision is his and unfortunately, as much as you love him, you have absolutely no say in the matter.

MisplacedAustin

Elizabeth, absolutely, its like giving with the expectation of receiving something in return. it will always ruin the experience.

Thank you for the insightful post.

I need to learn to not worry or be bothered by things that do not affect me.

I don't know how to not worry about someone I love that is doing something that could potential harm them.