Originally Posted by Matt5150
(Post 6579550)
I understand that. She's not going to jump to 9. I think I just need to hear her tell me that my pain is real. That she truly is sorry that she hurt me and our family like she did. I'm sorry. I'm really not trying to be a ***** and come across so selfish. In just in a lot of pain. And on top of that I love her. Its not easy. |
Originally Posted by tomsteve
(Post 6579549)
its not the support. its your opinion of how that support should be. its rather insane,imo. that 24/7 comment alone says ya really dont know how to show support. so, who's supporting YOU at this time? |
Originally Posted by tomsteve
(Post 6579553)
not in YOUR time though. |
Originally Posted by tomsteve
(Post 6579558)
WHY do you need to hear that? |
Originally Posted by Matt5150
(Post 6579559)
. But I made a vow to her. A commitment that I would stand by her No matter what. and if she relapses and gets even worse? this is just another thing,matt, that is showing how truly lost you are. |
Originally Posted by Matt5150
(Post 6579565)
Because she caused it. |
Originally Posted by Matt5150
(Post 6579550)
I understand that. She's not going to jump to 9. I think I just need to hear her tell me that my pain is real. That she truly is sorry that she hurt me and our family like she did. I'm sorry. I'm really not trying to be a ***** and come across so selfish. In just in a lot of pain. And on top of that I love her. Its not easy. If she is going to recover, she needs to be selfish right now. It's SO SO early in the process. She has been numbing her feelings for years, she is not going to learn how to acknowledge other people's feelings and the pain she caused overnight. She may NEVER be able to. My mother can't -- she's been sober for a decade but she still can't handle anyone's feelings, not hers, not anyone else's. The reason everyone is saying to back off from trying to help/fix/save her right now is because you are desperately crying out for water from what is essentially an empty well. That doesn't mean you don't deserve the water. But she is going to have to learn how to fill that well on her own before anyone else can drink from it. Until then, you can't count on her for your water. No matter how much you love her or believe she loves you -- we all need to learn to fill our own well. And more importantly, your daughter needs you. I grew up with an alcoholic mother and a severely codependent father. They were both so concerned with taking care of her that they essentially forgot about their kids. Me and my siblings have had years of issues stemming from the things we failed to learn or get at home. Maybe focus on being a good dad for awhile and let Mom sort herself out. Your daughter needs a parent. Your ex-wife needs the professionals at rehab. |
Originally Posted by tomsteve
(Post 6579568)
no. thats not why. its much deeper than that. |
Originally Posted by Matt5150
(Post 6579574)
Her alcoholism caused the destruction of our marriage. Its that simple. The issues she has caused her alcoholism. She's my ex because I had to take myself and our daughter out of a dangerous situation. A piece of paper will not stop my commitment and love for her. |
Originally Posted by SparkleKitty
(Post 6579570)
I hear you. Your feelings are all valid and real and important. If she is going to recover, she needs to be selfish right now. It's SO SO early in the process. She has been numbing her feelings for years, she is not going to learn how to acknowledge other people's feelings and the pain she caused overnight. She may NEVER be able to. My mother can't -- she's been sober for a decade but she still can't handle anyone's feelings, not hers, not anyone else's. The reason everyone is saying to back off from trying to help/fix/save her right now is because you are desperately crying out for water from what is essentially an empty well. That doesn't mean you don't deserve the water. But she is going to have to learn how to fill that well on her own before anyone else can drink from it. Until then, you can't count on her for your water. No matter how much you love her or believe she loves you -- we all need to learn to fill our own well. And more importantly, your daughter needs you. I grew up with an alcoholic mother and a severely codependent father. They were both so concerned with taking care of her that they essentially forgot about their kids. Me and my siblings have had years of issues stemming from the things we failed to learn or get at home. Maybe focus on being a good dad for awhile and let Mom sort herself out. Your daughter needs a parent. Your ex-wife needs the professionals at rehab. |
Originally Posted by tomsteve
(Post 6579578)
matt, i truly wish you the best on your journey and hope you start focusing on you AND your daughter. |
Well, I hope you can find a way to deal with your resentments and need for validation, Matt, but I think trying to get all that from her (or anyone else but yourself) will be like going to the hardware store for bread. I wish you and your daughter the best. |
Originally Posted by SparkleKitty
(Post 6579588)
Well, I hope you can find a way to deal with your resentments and need for validation, Matt, but I think trying to get all that from her (or anyone else but yourself) will be like going to the hardware store for bread. I wish you and your daughter the best. |
Originally Posted by Matt5150
(Post 6579583)
Thanks. Sorry we dont see eye to eye. Can I ask you something? Are you the victim of an alcoholic or are you the alcoholic that victimized people? but i am NOT a victim. i was a volunteer. i used the victim mentality a LOT when i was drinking. it helped keep me stay sick and drunk. considering yourself a victim isnt going to help. but it does shed some light on what youre true motive is. one last thing: IF i still had untreated codependency, i guarantee we would be seeing eye to eye. |
Originally Posted by tomsteve
(Post 6579594)
double winner- meaning both. but i am NOT a victim. i was a volunteer. i used the victim mentality a LOT when i was drinking. it helped keep me stay sick and drunk. considering yourself a victim isnt going to help. but it does shed some light on what youre true motive is. |
Originally Posted by tomsteve
(Post 6579594)
double winner- meaning both. but i am NOT a victim. i was a volunteer. i used the victim mentality a LOT when i was drinking. it helped keep me stay sick and drunk. considering yourself a victim isnt going to help. but it does shed some light on what youre true motive is. |
Originally Posted by tomsteve
(Post 6579594)
double winner- meaning both. but i am NOT a victim. i was a volunteer. i used the victim mentality a LOT when i was drinking. it helped keep me stay sick and drunk. considering yourself a victim isnt going to help. but it does shed some light on what youre true motive is. one last thing: IF i still had untreated codependency, i guarantee we would be seeing eye to eye. |
Any comments? Opinions? |
there could be some truth if it hurt. you wouldnt belive how much i was told that hurt- both when i was getting sober then when i was addressing the codependency. and that was EXACTLY how i needed the message delivered. THAT is how it got through the layers and layers of denial. THAT is how i was able to accept the truth about me. and those people that delivered the message honestly and with depth and weight? they did it becuase they cared about me. if they didnt care, they would have just let me suffer tellin me what i wanted to hear and not what i needed to hear. i owe them my life.i owe them my happiness, my serenity, my peace, and the greatest thing: i owe them for helping me be comfortable in my own skin. one of the greatest bits of information i was given when when treating the codependency and greatful i was able to accept: i didnt cause it cant control it cant cure it. |
i went thru recovery twice.....first time a single mom of a 4 year old - i didn't have an external loving support system, nobody watched over me, i saddled up and headed to the nearest AA meeting and got busy. years later i lost my focus and started drinking again. that went on for a long time, then i met crack. 4.5 years later i finally got my head out and quit. again without much external support - the whole idea of crack is to keep it a secret - just the support here from others who have been there. 9 years clean now. Are you saying that I am not a victim? Are you serious? yes. as an adult, you had choices. that you were hurt by her actions is not in question here, that you feel that she purposefully and intentionally drank to harm you is. you place her in the position of persecutor. The last thing someone who is sick with alcoholism wants is to be labeled and have fingers pointed at them isn't that what you are doing? claiming yourself as her victim? demanding apologies? putting sole blame for the end of your marriage on her???? |
Originally Posted by tomsteve
(Post 6579615)
there could be some truth if it hurt. you wouldnt belive how much i was told that hurt- both when i was getting sober then when i was addressing the codependency. and that was EXACTLY how i needed the message delivered. THAT is how it got through the layers and layers of denial. THAT is how i was able to accept the truth about me. and those people that delivered the message honestly and with depth and weight? they did it becuase they cared about me. if they didnt care, they would have just let me suffer tellin me what i wanted to hear and not what i needed to hear. i owe them my life.i owe them my happiness, my serenity, my peace, and the greatest thing: i owe them for helping me be comfortable in my own skin. one of the greatest bits of information i was given when when treating the codependency and greatful i was able to accept: i didnt cause it cant control it cant cure it. |
Originally Posted by AnvilheadII
(Post 6579618)
i went thru recovery twice.....first time a single mom of a 4 year old - i didn't have an external loving support system, nobody watched over me, i saddled up and headed to the nearest AA meeting and got busy. years later i lost my focus and started drinking again. that went on for a long time, then i met crack. 4.5 years later i finally got my head out and quit. again without much external support - the whole idea of crack is to keep it a secret - just the support here from others who have been there. 9 years clean now. |
Originally Posted by AnvilheadII
(Post 6579618)
i went thru recovery twice.....first time a single mom of a 4 year old - i didn't have an external loving support system, nobody watched over me, i saddled up and headed to the nearest AA meeting and got busy. years later i lost my focus and started drinking again. that went on for a long time, then i met crack. 4.5 years later i finally got my head out and quit. again without much external support - the whole idea of crack is to keep it a secret - just the support here from others who have been there. 9 years clean now. Are you saying that I am not a victim? Are you serious? yes. as an adult, you had choices. that you were hurt by her actions is not in question here, that you feel that she purposefully and intentionally drank to harm you is. you place her in the position of persecutor. |
Originally Posted by AnvilheadII
(Post 6579618)
i went thru recovery twice.....first time a single mom of a 4 year old - i didn't have an external loving support system, nobody watched over me, i saddled up and headed to the nearest AA meeting and got busy. years later i lost my focus and started drinking again. that went on for a long time, then i met crack. 4.5 years later i finally got my head out and quit. again without much external support - the whole idea of crack is to keep it a secret - just the support here from others who have been there. 9 years clean now. Are you saying that I am not a victim? Are you serious? yes. as an adult, you had choices. that you were hurt by her actions is not in question here, that you feel that she purposefully and intentionally drank to harm you is. you place her in the position of persecutor. The last thing someone who is sick with alcoholism wants is to be labeled and have fingers pointed at them isn't that what you are doing? claiming yourself as her victim? demanding apologies? putting sole blame for the end of your marriage on her???? |
Originally Posted by Matt5150
(Post 6579623)
You may want to consider that what doesn't hurt you may hurt others. . you wouldnt belive how much i was told that hurt -both when i was getting sober then when i was addressing the codependency. ???????????????????? |
Someone must have loved you enough to help you with your child. no, not really. i took her to meetings with me a lot of the time. her dad had her on weekends, but that was part of the parenting plan. he didn't know about my drinking problem. i had no siblings, and an alcoholic mother. so NO, no one swooped in on the Love Jet and rescued me.....i owned my own recovery. |
Originally Posted by tomsteve
(Post 6579631)
didnt i type you wouldnt belive how much i was told that hurt -both when i was getting sober then when i was addressing the codependency. ???????????????????? |
Originally Posted by AnvilheadII
(Post 6579632)
Someone must have loved you enough to help you with your child. no, not really. i took her to meetings with me a lot of the time. her dad had her on weekends, but that was part of the parenting plan. he didn't know about my drinking problem. i had no siblings, and an alcoholic mother. so NO, no one swooped in on the Love Jet and rescued me.....i owned my own recovery. |
Is it because I'm not in recovery for alcoholism? Is the basis of recovery telling people that no matter what they did it's ok and there is no need to take responsibility? How does that help? i never said she was blameless or that her drinking did not bring about the end of your marriage. i was trying to keep the focus on you and your current thinking. what's in your head. you WANT an apology. you WANT her better. you WANT your family restored. and you are looking to one pretty damaged person (HER) to GIVE you all that, in spades. as the person who hurt you, it might be considered unwise to look to her to heal you. especially not as long as you see yourself as her victim. it gives her way too much power over you - over your happiness and your well being. |
Originally Posted by AnvilheadII
(Post 6579642)
Is it because I'm not in recovery for alcoholism? Is the basis of recovery telling people that no matter what they did it's ok and there is no need to take responsibility? How does that help? i never said she was blameless or that her drinking did not bring about the end of your marriage. i was trying to keep the focus on you and your current thinking. what's in your head. you WANT an apology. you WANT her better. you WANT your family restored. and you are looking to one pretty damaged person (HER) to GIVE you all that, in spades. as the person who hurt you, it might be considered unwise to look to her to heal you. especially not as long as you see yourself as her victim. it gives her way too much power over you - over your happiness and your well being. |
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