darlacfp

Hi all, my husband was a long time high functioning alcoholic, then sobered up 18 months ago after he flipped his car and got a DUI (2nd one). As far as I know he has been sober since. He lost his license for one year, that began last January 9.

I had hopes that the pattern of lying, manipulation, and deceit ended with his sobriety, but something happened last week that has me questioning it all again.

He was home from work last week, waiting for his license to come in the mail. His privileges had been reinstated the previous Friday, but the license had not arrived yet. The recording where he found out his privileges were restored clearly states not to drive without the license in your car.

I found out through a mutual friend that my daughter in law ran into him in a convenience store the day before; she mentioned it thinking he had his license back and was happy for me not to have to drive him around anymore.

When I asked him about it, thinking surely he must have walked there (he wouldn't be that dumb would he??), he admitted to having driven there, saying it was no big deal, he saw online he had 15 days to produce the license if he got stopped. But no worries, he was only on back roads anyway. When I asked why he didn't mention it to me while he told me all about everything else he had done that day, he said it slipped his mind, it really wasn't a big deal to share because he didn't drive far.

I didn't buy that, and further, my daughter in law told me that when she saw him in the store, she tried to say hi and hug him and he blew right past her and our grandson. Came back after a few minutes and said he hadn't wanted to interrupt her conversation. Then I find out he also drove (on the highway) the following day. Which he was going to tell me about, but then we started fighting so he didn't have the chance.

All in all, my interpretation is that he wanted something, he found a way to justify it, then he hoped I wouldn't know, and when I did, he minimized it and told me I was misreading his intentions. Alarms are going off in my head, because that's how he justified drinking, which I told him.

Of course then he was up all night, soul searching... and came to me the next morning like a dog that got beat and said he realizes now he has a disease that he has to take care of. Okay, that's not the new revelation he presented it as, he knew that already.

He got his license back yesterday and went to a meeting after not having gone in a year (except a few online) since he couldn't drive. To which I also call bull, because if he really wanted to he could have found a way, but that's another issue.

But it feels like too little too late.... I alternate between being furious with him- both for the risk he took by driving and for the snow job- and just being done with being lied to.

Not to mention his explanation for drinking almost two bottles of codeine cough medicine a few months ago never made sense to me, and now I'm even more doubtful.

Is this common for them to sober up and continue to lie?
The lying somehow was easier to take when I thought it was to hold on to his addiction. Now it's just a slap in the face.

AliWProk

Clearly I can only speak for myself and my experience with my XAH. But yeah, he lies all the time, even when "sober." Some people might call him a "dry drunk." He still has some/all of the dysfunctional behaviors that were once indicative of drinking. I chalk it up to my XAH starting so young (17). 30 years later, he just got his 1st offense DUI (he's had two, but over 20 years ago). He'll most likely be good until it's done, then right back to it. I don't think he'll ever really realize that he can't drink anymore, at all.

The best thing you can do is go to Al Anon and learn more. You'll get lots of support from people just like you. Good luck to you.

shell2516

From my experience too my mum lies even when she's sober. She always has lied and I believe she always will even if she does eventually manage to stay completely sober. She will swear on peoples lives, beg for forgiveness, promise to not lie ever again but it always does happen, I've just learned to accept it I guess.

As for not going to meetings- I do believe that if I person is really serious about something they will get where they need to be no matter what. An example- I've been having guitar lessons for a while (something I had wanted to do for such a long time and I love it). A couple of weeks ago my car was at the garage and there isn't really a bus that runs near where my guitar teacher lives. So I put my walking boots on, put my coat and gloves on, set off early and walked there because I really WANTED to be there and knew that if I missed a week I wouldn't be progressing as quickly and I would forget things.

My mum is forever promising the get help. When it comes down to it there's always an excuse- it was raining, the bus was too early, she got up too late. No, I think that if you REALLY want to do something then you will find a way.

"All in all, my interpretation is that he wanted something, he found a way to justify it, then he hoped I wouldn't know, and when I did, he minimized it and told me I was misreading his intentions. Alarms are going off in my head, because that's how he justified drinking, which I told him."

Oh boy... this is what my mum does. She can always find a reason to justify her actions and make it seem like it's all in my head, that she's OK and I'm the one with the problem.

To answer your question- yes, I definitely think they still lie even when sober. I suppose it's just something that becomes a habit. They become used to lying and it's easy, it's something they have done for years. I can relate to what you said, it's harder when they lie when they're sober. I just feel like everything my mum says is a lie, I always feel I have to question everything.

I hope you're OK. Good luck!

FeelingGreat

It sounds like his recovery is patchy, with the codeine episode and the driving, but as long as he's moving in the right direction, I hope he'll eventually get to the point where he has nothing to hide.

What bothers me about A's lies is that they are so transparent they're almost laughable, except for the reason they lie.

darlacfp

Thank you.... it's nice to know I'm not alone in this.

Over the past few days he has continued to blatantly lie to my face about the details of what happened when he ran into our daughter-in-law. It has smacked me in the face that this is a cycle.... he lies about something big (usually drinking related but not always), I am crushed, he apologizes, goes to meetings or counseling or whatever, is super nice to me, then I feel guilty for being angry at such a nice man so I pick up the pieces of my broken heart and give it back to him. Rinse, repeat.

Brightly

Hi, I am going through something similar and don't know how to deal with it.

My boyfriend was sober for almost 5 years (we've been together for about 8) when he drank a bottle of cold medicine last year. I freaked out and called his dad, who lives close enough that he could come for the day. We all talked and my boyfriend said he would go to the dr (get back on anti depressants, he suffers from chronic depression) and start going to AA meetings again (he'd stopped at some point after awhile). He admitted that he'd been a dry drunk for months, which I noticed as he seemed really depressed and on edge, but because he'd done so well with his sobriety, I didn't think a relapse was possible.

Well, after that instance, he drank (usually alcohol, though once more with cold medicine) at least once a month for the next 8 months. I got to the point when I never left him alone, or if I did, I had major anxiety and could hardly enjoy what I was doing. (Yes, I know that is unhealthy.)

The 5th or 6th time of him drinking was the weekend my best friend's mom committed suicide. I was spending a lot of time with her and came home from one visit and could smell it on his breath. He, of course, lied and said he hadn't, and thats when it just clicked that I couldn't really do anything. At that time, I had no energy to focus on him, I needed everything for my friend. For the next few times, I would ask him once if he drank, he'd say no, then I'd ask him the next day and he'd finally admit it. Then I would ask if he thought he needed a meeting, what would help etc. Finally after 8 or 9 times he got really dedicated to working his program.

So I thought he'd been good in the 6 months since then. In a good mood, going to weekly meetings (which he has always enjoyed), and I am finally to the point where I can leave him alone and not freak out the whole time.

Then, we recently went away for the weekend, and he had to travel for work the next week so he'd packed all his stuff to fly out of the city we were visiting. I opened his bag and found a new can of chewing tobacco. He doesn't smoke, has never chewed. I KNOW he was just doing it for the buzz and maybe the excitement of the secret? He said he'd been doing it for a couple of months.

I know it might seem like not a big deal, but for me, its the lie, not the chew (though I am not happy about that). And I am wondering if he doesn't see it as a lie since I never specifically asked if he was chewing tobacco? Though I know he felt terrible and guilty and it ruined the first night of our weekend because we were both pretty unhappy. I asked him, is it always going to be something?? I said that I wanted to think of something that I could have to hide, which is obviously immature but I was just so mad! And also that its not fair that I am the only one who has to get that horrible feeling you get in your stomach when you discover another lie.

I'm sorry, I don't know how to help, but the fact that this was so similar to my story AND a current post, I had to say something! We were talking about marriage but now I am scared of that big of a commitment, and have no idea what to think about having kids. I hope at least hearing something kind of similar helps you.

ALinNS

I am sticking my nose it here so take it for what it's worth.

Sober would have to be defined, I have stopped drinking for two years but I had no plan in place for recovery so did the lies continue? Yes no question

In recovery if we really want sobriety we have to be honest with ourselves first, that is the stepping ground of being honest with others, IMHO and experience.

All the best Andrew

DarlingNikki

I'm not sure that I would consider somebody sober if the person presented like your husband. Drinking two bottles of codeine syrup is a bigger warning sign than a trip to the store, in my opinion. I also don't personally see forced sobriety (enforced by prison, police or loved ones) as true sobriety. True sobriety comes when the addict is doing it for himself, with the intent to no longer abuse any substance. Relapses happen but someone serious about recovery will own up to it and try to learn from the experience.
The lying is a symptom of the illness so once a person is truly recovering the lying should stop. And in my experience it does. It makes me incredibly sad to read that so many loved ones believe that their addicted family members will always continue to engage in dishonest behavior. That really isn't the case. Remember that you can know an alcoholic or addict for 50 years but until that person is truly sober, you don't really know him or her.
Please don't give up hope, and don't be too quick to see something as a sign of addiction. Your husband has gotten used to having to lie and he probably thought he'd be harshly judged if he admitted to driving before his license came in. If you've never had your ability to drive taken away as an adult (this applies to people in the US where public transportation is often non-existent) you can't possibly imagine how it feels. Suddenly you're completely reliant on others and something as simple as driving to the convenience store becomes a dream. I can't really say I blame your husband for jumping the gun, he was probably dying to get out of the house on his own.

Austin4Wyo

I'm speaking as an alcoholic with over a year sober, and one who is quietly but steadily engaging in more relationships with others who have had or have compulsive behaviors...

Abstinence from a substance doesn't address other negative behaviors. In my own experience, my behaviors were poorer when I was trying to protect my drinking habits, buy when I engaged ONLY in abstaining, I was still miserable, and still a complete louse as a human being. Lying, hiding things, minimizing, etc...all stuff I knew well, both personally and anecdotally.

Until the reasons I drank/otherwise altered reality are addressed, I had no motivation to be honest, except for avoiding consequences. So, in order to NOT change and learn to live better by addressing myself, the negative behaviors continued, regardless of whether I was engaging in my liter-a-day habit or abstaining. This has, unfortunately, been a common experience with others I interact with who are only abstaining, but not addressing the root causes of WHY they're inherently unhappy/angry/unwilling to accept the world.

I don't lie anymore. It started as a desire to avoid consequences, at least early on. As the anxiety and fear associated with the truth abated due to the idea that I no longer had things to hide, I started to find I had no reason to lie. After 14 months of doing the next right thing, owning my mistakes, and developing a paramount code of personal responsibility, I can tell you, a person CAN change. I have, I work to continue the positive changes in how I treat others, and I know others who are in a similar pattern.

The hell of it? It remains a personal, daily choice to live well, and to treat others well. I know of no way that one can effectively evaluate a person's internal motivations and machinations; rather, you can only evaluate based on behavior. By that metric, you have every reason to be concerned.

Until your husband invests the time, effort, and endures the pain of dealing with whatever issues of mind and spirit that are plaguing him, it's unlikely hia behavior will change. Recovery has been, and remains, an inside job. I deal with people EVERY DAY, both addicts and those affected by addicts, that think it's based upon the amount of pages they read, meetings they attend, or other external behaviors. Until the desire to treat others well is internally motivated, no long-term change will take place.

It sucks. It has been a real eye opener and insanely humbling to be treated in fashions similar to how I treated those I ostensibly care about. Sometimes I have to create boundaries that are to protect myself, knowing full well the level of manipulation that I was PERSONALLY capable of. But I'm heartened by the fact that I, and others, HAVE indeed changed for the better.

I wish you the best, and hope it works out. Be sure to do what you need to do for your own well being. Love and prayers to both of you.

DarlingNikki

Wrong thread

least

I am a recovered alcoholic who was never a liar by nature, but when my drinking bothered my kids, I started lying about it. Now that I'm sober, I no longer lie.

JOIE12

I am the ex wife of a marriage (21 yrs) to an abusive drinker.

I am the ex girlfriend of a heroin addict (3 yrs).

Both passed away last spring.

I see a lot of members who wish to change their addict/alcoholic/drinker ... It's like a dog chasing their tail.

If you don't like being lied to, monitoring behaviors, babysitting - you have the choice to fix yourself vs. staying in an unhappy frustrating relationship.

We become as sick as the addict.

Hugs to everyone,
Joie

darlacfp

Joie you are so right.
I don't want his issues to drag me down anymore. Not sure where that leaves our marriage at this immediate time, but I'm detaching and giving myself time to figure it out and take care of myself.

Reflecting back, I realized that his lying preceded our issues from his drinking. He lied before we got married and I minimized it because he was a "nice" guy. He lies to get out of trouble, he lies to get attention, he tells stories and exaggerates. Pretty much at this point I can't believe a word he says.

He's back in AA, doing 90 in 90 and seeing two therapists. Sounds great but it's the same cycle over and over. there's no way to know if it will stick this time or blow up in my face again. Only time will tell and I have to decide if I want to take that chance.
But he knows that the minute I feel like he's gaslighting me again I'm gone.