seek

I believe all adults are responsible for themselves. I am writing to gain more clarity on my position.

I attend Alanon and many members actually encourage enabling, rescuing, and saving, all while saying to work the steps and turn it over to God, etc. (In my mind those things are mutually exclusive).

Some people will self-destruct no matter what the efforts made on their behalf.

Some will elect to help themselves and will enlist others to help them.

I am feeling pressured to rescue FAST - and I do not feel guided to do so. I feel guided to take my time, to consult with an expert, and then to make a decision - but I second guess myself. The familiar response would be to act out of sheer terror and run around and try to fix things and put stuff together . . . I am not doing that.

I have offered possible assistance after I consult with an expert (which cannot happen immediately). It is my opinion that the alcoholic CAN find resources besides me if he so chooses in the interim.

I feel sad that God will not come down from on high to proclaim that my stance is correct.

I am relying on my instinct and my feelings to inform me - and for me, feelings ARE "facts" - I totally rely on my intuition and I feel the culture does not support that (which is another issue, but one I think is making it hard for me to be sure my stance is morally correct).

seek

Love the support - not . . .

Seren

Good evening, seek;

My humble apologies if there was no one around to answer your questions or respond to your post. Often Friday afternoons and evenings on into the weekends are very quiet here at SoberRecovery. Many people have chores and other obligations which take them away from here. Sometimes it is quite vacant here on the weekends compared to the weekdays.

I have been dealing with a crisis in my own family and have not been around very much, so perhaps the sarcasm could be turned into a bit more understanding of the situations others may be facing here when a thread is begun but does not receive the immediate response you would like.

I am sorry you are feeling that pressure from anyone. I think your approach to take your time and consult about what would be the best way to handle these 'crises' is a very valid and, in my opinion, healthy and sanity saving approach.

It would be nice, wouldn't it, if there were large neon signs pointing out the best path for us? The best choice to make?

As far as what society believes I should or should not do, well, society does not have to live my life or make my decisions for me. I'm quite sure there are many members of our family who would tell my husband and I that we should rescue, save, fix, cover for, pay for, many things in my addict stepson's life. We have tried those things in the past--and it never worked.

Now we realize that the greatest benefit to him in the long run is to allow him to learn to take care of himself, to handle the consequences of his actions. We won't be around forever to clean up after his messes, so he should learn to either not create them or to clean them up himself.

This has been thought of as 'abandoning' him by him and by other relatives. They are welcome to their opinions. They are even welcome to take him into their homes if they feel so strongly about it. In fact, some family members did 'rescue' him several months ago. He took advantage of their hospitality, drank in their home, and even acted inappropriately toward their daughter--his own niece. He was kicked out.

I love my stepson. I tell him every chance I get. But he has to learn to operate in this would as an adult, and he won't be able to do that if we keep rushing in at every crisis he creates. My husband and I now take the approach you have found for yourself. We carefully consider what to do. Many, many times, what we do is nothing at all except to tell him we love him and know that he will be able to figure this out.

seek

Seren: Thank you for your thoughtful response. The sarcasm was just to say "this isn't much of a support forum" for the several people who actually viewed my post and weren't moved to respond. I was looking for support, and it gets tiresome and disappointing to rarely get it. I think I "deserve" it as much as the next person, so I just felt like saying that.

The bit about culture is just commenting on societal conditioning - not looking for approval - we are conditioned to not pay attention to our feelings and in AA there is a slogan that colludes with that that people often quote and I just wanted to point out how that is how "we" (as a society) are trained in our beliefs. The reason it is important is because I am old now and it has taken me THIS LONG to REALLY pay attention to MY FEELINGS - and not minimize them or pathologize them.

I have a very strong intuition when things are wrong in my family and am especially attuned to the alcoholic and when they "go out." I get physically sick to my stomach.

I also had the behavior previously of feeling an urgency - that I HAD TO DO SOMETHING RIGHT NOW. The reason this is relevant here and does not JUST pertain to me is because I have been encouraged by people in Alanon (including my sponsor) to rush in and fix things for the alcoholic!!!! There is social pressure in that these people have "rank" (I am "supposed to" pay attention to my sponsor and the people in Alanon who have experience). But guess what? I am not doing that this time and that is not me being a rebel or being stupid. It is me actually paying keen attention to MY feelings and noticing what I think is "the next right thing" to do. And if something "bad" happens in the interim - guess what? It is not my fault!

I am not in charge of fate or life and death for the alcoholic - they are. If they want me to do something to "save" them - they have to do their part too - AND I reserve the right to get advice and think about what I want to do. I don't have to react and everything is not an urgency because they have chosen to live in crisis. That is what I am most proud of finding out about my own process.

I am just paying attention to my body - to how I feel. Does being around this person give me a tight gut? Is my intuition telling me they are lying? Are they serious about recovery or are they just looking for an emergency rescue in this moment? Why is this time different? These are just some questions I am asking myself and I am paying attention to MY answers - not listening to others - no matter what their rank or their perspective.

I do LOVE the alcoholic more than any other human being on earth - and I would move heaven and earth for him if I thought it would do any good. But this time I am doing what is ALSO right for me.

How many of the alcoholics would even walk across the street to help you if you needed it? If I called this one and said I needed help with "x," I could rot in hell before that happened. I can't expect a reciprocal relationship because he is sick - but I do DESERVE one - it's just not going to happen anytime soon, if ever, and I have to come to terms with that. I am not a nurse - I am not God - I don't have answers - I don't know what's right - I only know what FEELS right to me and that is what I am paying attention to.

I just think it is super weird that no one can relate to me - and it does somewhat offend me because this IS support forum or I thought it was - maybe it is something else.

Fluffer

Seek,

Like Seren said, I wouldn't read too much into the lack of response. Friday night is pretty dead around here. I certainly think you sound reasonable and justified in your response. You have to live life on your terms and I think most people around here agree with your no-enabling approach. Hope you feel better.

Seren

I can't speak for your Al-Anon group, but I was never urged to do something right way or to do anything at all if it was not well thought out by anyone in my Al-Anon group. However, I do hear some SR members state that they believe their fellow Al-Anon members are encouraging them to 'broom the alcoholic to the curb'. I also never experienced this in my home group.

The frequent advice given to members in those cases is--find another Al-Anon group. Unfortunately, Al-Anon is comprised of we the flawed and failing humans who often misunderstand the program and bring our own biases into the mix. Do you have an opportunity to search out different groups in your area? Where we are, there are not that many--so our choices are somewhat limited in that regard.

I think woman's intuition, especially, is quite real. I entered a store the other day with my mother, and was absolutely repulsed by the proprietor even though he had not done anything to me or around me. Later, my mother described some of ways in which she has overheard him speaking to other women in his store on previous occasions--he is a pretty world-class creep.

I have had a 'feeling' about my stepson on a few occasions in the past. Then, I would go looking for him on the local jail websites and sure enough--there he was.

I see nothing wrong with you trusting your instincts in these cases--nothing wrong at all.

We all deserve to be treated with loving respect by our family members, seek. If I were keeping score of all the actions I have taken to help, all the gifts I have purchased, and all the love I have given to my stepson, the balance on his side would be woefully in the deficit. In fact, this is a young man who still occasionally refers to me as either the gold-digging trophy wife or the naive s***-kicker. And yet, I do love him as a son and as a fellow human being.

This imbalance is something that is not fair. But it is. I can't do anything to change that. I can't make someone care more about me than alcohol or some other drug. I can't make someone care about me at all. So I love my stepson now without expecting anything in return. Because to me, love is willing the good of the other as other. Loving someone, in my world view, does not mean expecting something from that person in return.

I'm sorry you don't feel understood, seek. I know I can't change your opinion of that. I hope that today you find peace and joy!

KariSue

I think your approach is great. I am striving to get to that point. It is hard though when you are in the middle of the chaos.

I just got myself my own counselor just for ME to help me with all this. I mean why not make it easier? I deserve that.

She asked me if I went to any NarAnon meetings for support. (in my case it is my addicted son). I told her I just didn't like the ones I went to. It sounds like you had the same type of experience. For various reasons, they don't appeal to all people.

I think a combination of intuition, trying some new behaviors, thinking things through and getting some counsel is the best way for me to go forward. This stuff certainly isn't for sissies! Lol!

Kari

seek

Seren: I am not disparaging the Alanon group or the people . . . upon further reflection, I think it is merely that Alanon and AA were created in the 30's and thought has evolved a lot since then - I think the people who gave me the advice are well-meaning . . . but, as you say, we are all human and imperfect. When you are looking to a group for guidance, if the guidance is not good then people can be led astray and much damage can be done. That is my own realization, so I don't need to change groups to put more faith in my own personal guidance.

Also, when I mentioned the relationship with the alcoholic is not reciprocal it was not because I am expecting it to be - I have done a lot of processing around that - I know he is sick - just saying that there is an imbalance - just noticing that. I am responsible for contributing to the imbalance to my peril.

KariSue: You are right - this stuff is not for sissies.

I have never felt very supported in my life and now I realize just because other people do not support me (for whatever reason), doesn't mean I should not value and support myself and pay attention to my feelings, intuitions, and my wisdom. I think I must have previously concluded that everyone else had to be right, and therefore there must be something wrong with me and how I am perceiving things - or that my feelings of sickness were not intuition but some kind of weakness or trauma in me that had been unhealed (and in some cases that was true - I believe there are many layers of existence, so it could all be true to some degree).

Just now giving my feelings and perceptions more respect. It seems important.

Morning Glory

This is a new forum seek and it takes time for members to participate on a new forum. You will probably still get more immediate support on the family and friend's forum where there is more member participation for now. I will often read a post and take time to give it some thought before posting anything.

I have gained much wisdom from Al-anon even though I don't attend meetings or work the program like others do. I always use my own intuition and that has changed with the education I've received on addiction through much reading and other's experience here.

Rescuing can mean a lot of things when we're dealing with addiction. Do you mean life and death situations or just normal consequences like losing a driver's license or going to jail?, etc...

seek

Hello - I don't want to go into details, but I don't think it is life or death - but I am not God, so I don't know about such things.

I believe everyone is on their own path.

I have done a lot of rescuing and "helping" in the past. Don't want to be in that role anymore. If I was dead, then what? I shouldn't feel that I HAVE TO do anything. That's where I'm at today (but I am still investigating with an expert).

Morning Glory

I think we've all felt the same and I know I still do at times when things get really bad. I've been able to stop helping in most areas of my son's life, but I still get caught in the middle sometimes when the kids are involved.

seek

I am just tired of having this issue take over my life.

I can imagine if there are small kids how difficult it could be.

I find it interesting that in every family there are those who are "there" and those who are never there. The ones who are never there are never expected to be there - no one asks them because it is understood.

I know that I volunteered to "be there," but there is only so much one human being can possibly do.

It is exhausting!

I am reading a certain spiritual book that suggests that our only responsibility is ultimately to ourselves (it's not that simple, but in this situation, I am applying it). It is related to the idea that we are all on our own, unique spiritual paths. We can't do it for them, and vice versa.

And I also know if I was sick and needed him, he would not be there (because of his disease and the choices he is currently making) and on some level, I think "enough is enough."

I study Feng Shui and there is a concept of "energy exchange" - there has to be balance or (whatever) is unhealthy or just unbalanced (and unbalanced things tip over). I feel like tipping over.

I am not having a great day today because I have anxiety about the meeting with the expert and fears around expectations of what I will and won't do. I don't want this problem anymore - I am trying to accept "life on life's terms," and I want to create my own destiny that is not tied into being dragged around by unhealthy people - even people I LOVE dearly.

seek

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Seren

I must admit I'm grateful that my stepson has no children. As he continues to make poor choices, he is at least NOT taking any innocent young lives along for the ride.

I'm really sorry it has been an anxious day, seek. I hope that after you have had your meeting, you will be able to feel some clarity about what you would or would not like to do under the current crisis. I hope and pray that you will be able to find your own joy that is not, as you say, tied to someone who is dragging you around.

BellaBlue

Hi seek,

Anytime that I've been pressured to make quick decisions, they have been wrong. Almost every time. A wise woman I worked for started her own business and had a motto, "Hurrying hurts!" Especially with addicts.

Alcoholics have dominated my life: dad, first husband and now son. Two out of the three are gone, now. Exhausting doesn't begin to cover how it feels.

I wish you peace.

AliWProk

I wish I could have been here when you first posted! I can relate.

I spent Saturday night with my stepdaughter, she stayed with my son at our home for the first time in 4 years, and the first time since I divorced XAH. We haven't heard from him in 2 months. Her mother and I now have a cautious friendship and we are sharing our recovery journeys.

We each did the enabling, saving, rescuing and ultimatum crap on our own with XAH over the years. When we hit an Al anon meeting together a few months ago, we almost fell over with the 'ah ha' moments. No one ever pressured us to do anything for the addict. This was about us.

And it is about you, seek. Your gut instinct serves you well. I'd say you are well on your way to peace.

greeteachday

I think this is an excellent observation. I used to look at the first part of this and resent the ones who were never there. Why didn't anyone expect anything from them? Eventually I started to understand why some were not there. Some didn't care since they were self involved; some cared - maybe too much and knew it was healthier not to engage and some just had a way of floating around the perimeter...probably just not very emotionally invested one way or the other.

After figuring out the ones I could be there for and those who I had to detach from for my own sanity as well as hopefully for them, I started realizing that being there also didn't have to mean doing something. Often just investing the time to be an ear; an empathetic listener; a person who could say "I'm sorry it is so hard right now, but I believe in you" was some of the best ways I could be there for those I love.

It certainly helps that right now there is no major addiction drama in my life. I've always found recovery easier when I can think clearly without being in survival mode.

I too think your instincts are sound Seek and you are taking great steps. I'm sorry your loved ones still struggle.

seek

Update: I had the meeting with the "expert" and my instinct was validated, which was nice, since there is no one in my family who can be of any support.

I offered a plan to the alcoholic - he had asked for assistance and made a clear plan what I would do and under what circumstances. There is a sobriety requirement of 24 hours and evidently he has made other plans since he told me he wanted this.

I did not sleep well last night (probably sensing that he was drinking) . . . and began to feel resentment at the lengths I was going to go to (which I had not anticipated), and now it's like, "Okay. I guess we will wait and see what you do." He has nowhere to go but detox now.

Ilovemysonjj

Hello Seek. My Mother was JJ's biggest support and she too felt just as you are saying. She did not want to keep being the savior, and it was much harder because she was not involved in Alanon or understanding of detachment. I of course drove her actions as well, as all I wanted to do was save JJ and of course, I WOULD because I was his Mother. When I first arrived here on SR, I got a lot of advice that helped me understand how powerless I am. I am a slow learner (LOL) and I guarantee, every time that I was enabling or helping JJ there was a pit in the bottom of my stomach which gnawed at me while I was in the act. Those are the times I fell back in the trap. I am drawn to JJ like a moth to a light. I have to learn and continue to accept letting him go. I too felt like crap this last round of detox and then dropping him off at the Salvation Army. I am also very sick of the constant emotional burden.

seek

ilovemysonjj: Thanks - it is good to read of other's experiences. I helped raise my grandson, so we are closer than most. I have been "hands-off" for a pretty long time, but he reached out to me and asked me for specific support and I examined myself (or so I thought) and decided I would assist him with helping himself if that is what he really wanted, under specific circumstances (which I laid out and he accepted). The only "problem" is that he apparently won't stop drinking and the place has a 24 hour sobriety requirement. So now I have to let go because there is nothing I can do. I did say I would drive him to detox but I am not sure I can do that because I don't want to see him while he is drunk/drinking . . . I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

When I was sick in my bed last night - thinking of all of the things I would have to do - I was surprised that I had not considered how I feel about that - it's almost a moot point because I didn't really have faith that that was a good solution anyway, but I wanted to respond to what I thought was a sincere request for help.

It's really hard to watch this all go down over and over again.

His mom is beside herself, as well.

He really is in his HP's hands.

I am only one person.

And one old, tired person.