Stuck between rock and hard place
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: New York
Posts: 277
Stuck between rock and hard place
I struggle to type but I need some thoughts. 14 days out of rehab my son. I said I would drug test once a week for me. I find myself scared to get answer. I found out he only went to iop 2 times. Said it wasnt for him and stupid. So. First timer....I wanna do drug test. Even though afraid of answer... With answer do I insist on inpatient rehab again?? Chat do I do. How do I decide. Is it too soon to go back. Opiates are so hard to get off of. I'm not stupid. But what do I even suggest.. I know he decides and it is only him. Open to thoughts please"....
Forum Leader
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 10,944
Hi Rosie, This is all really hard stuff. Do you suspect your son is on drugs again....or that he has just continued to use all along? How old is your son?
Active addicts are very good at manipulating everyone around them into doing what they want. My stepson was very good at making his father and I feel guilty for anything and everything we did to NOT participate in his addiction or support it in any way.
None of us can really tell you what to do because those choices are entirely up to you. Are you prepared to make your son leave your home if the result of the drug test is positive? Only you can answer that, and it is a hard and painful decision--heartbreaking really.
Has your son been disrespectful, threatening or violent? Is there constant tension in your home? Sometimes writing it all out and really taking a look at the full situation has helped me make hard decisions in the past.
Sending hugs! This stuff is awful!
Active addicts are very good at manipulating everyone around them into doing what they want. My stepson was very good at making his father and I feel guilty for anything and everything we did to NOT participate in his addiction or support it in any way.
None of us can really tell you what to do because those choices are entirely up to you. Are you prepared to make your son leave your home if the result of the drug test is positive? Only you can answer that, and it is a hard and painful decision--heartbreaking really.
Has your son been disrespectful, threatening or violent? Is there constant tension in your home? Sometimes writing it all out and really taking a look at the full situation has helped me make hard decisions in the past.
Sending hugs! This stuff is awful!
Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: CA
Posts: 10,681
I read that your son is 21 so that puts treatment into his hands since he is the only one who can make that decision.
I would also ask if you are in immediate physical danger with his drug use. Has he displayed any threatening behavior with his past use?
If you aren't in immediate danger it gives you time to work on a plan and process the information you receive from the drug testing. Maybe he would be willing to come up with a plan for treatment with you or at least a plan to move out on his own if that's what you want. If not you can come up with a plan of your own when you are ready to take action.
I would also ask if you are in immediate physical danger with his drug use. Has he displayed any threatening behavior with his past use?
If you aren't in immediate danger it gives you time to work on a plan and process the information you receive from the drug testing. Maybe he would be willing to come up with a plan for treatment with you or at least a plan to move out on his own if that's what you want. If not you can come up with a plan of your own when you are ready to take action.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: New York
Posts: 277
No immediate danger. He is fine and I guess I just don't know if back to using A relapse last weekend. Sounded motivated to keep doing meetings. Asking for a private counselor. Feels trapped in big groups talking about it. My mom gut says he is back. I have only known there was a big issue since dec 31 st. I just need to offer the support I can. If that is back to rehab or not. I am just afraid of the drug test. I am not prepared at this time to do anything but show him the options that could be avaiable if he wants the help. That's all I can do at this time.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: New York
Posts: 277
No real tension in my house either because I try to allow for everyone's personal space. I am sure that I live paralyzed. Thinking you ate the mom tell him no. Then I know I can't and try to talk thru. He wants to talk. A lot. But it can't be me. It hurts too much. I need him to find some kind of sponsor. It's just he goes to a meeting and finds more people who don't really care to be sober and push to go and party. This world for us and the addicts. So very twisted. Jesus. Why can't I find you
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: New York
Posts: 277
You both are asking if he has been violent. Is that what happened with you both.? This has not happened yet. But again. Day 15 out of first rehab and I have only known about the addiction for maybe 60 days. He wore it well.
Forum Leader
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 10,944
Such a short amount of time to try to really understand what you are facing and trying to learn all about addiction. It does seem so overwhelming at first--I do remember that very well.
Some of us have experienced violence and threats of violence from our addicted family members. My stepson threatened to 3 members of his own family during the most active days of his crack addiction. That is why we ask, because we are concerned for your safety. Plus, you deserve to be treated with kindness and respect in your own home!
So if I am understanding you correctly, you say that your son has relapsed one weekend since finishing the IOP program (at least that you know of right now)? If he thinks he would prefer individual counseling to group therapy, there are many options he can explore. Perhaps suggest a visit to his doctor to discuss his options.
Some of us have experienced violence and threats of violence from our addicted family members. My stepson threatened to 3 members of his own family during the most active days of his crack addiction. That is why we ask, because we are concerned for your safety. Plus, you deserve to be treated with kindness and respect in your own home!
So if I am understanding you correctly, you say that your son has relapsed one weekend since finishing the IOP program (at least that you know of right now)? If he thinks he would prefer individual counseling to group therapy, there are many options he can explore. Perhaps suggest a visit to his doctor to discuss his options.
Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: a better place
Posts: 4,047
I think you will find varying opinions on whether it is helpful to drug test. Some people believe it is a good way to make sure that their loved one isn't using; others find it to be demeaning, and still others would like to drug test but are not sure what they would do if the test came back dirty (or if it came back clean when they were sure their loved one was using. This happens - clever addicts find ways to beat the tests) If you don't feel comfortable drug testing - at least for now - no matter what your reason, I would suggest considering whether drug testing is the right option for you at this point.
My daughter's primary drug was opiates (she ended up snorting heroin) and when she was taking them, she usually was quite "nice" - social, talkative, in a good mood, so I understand what you mean about your son wearing them well. It was when she increased dosage that I'd see the slurring, the nodding off, etc. If she used something else, like coke or crack, her personality changed completely. It was very unsettling time - I didn't know who I was going to be greeted by when I would encounter her.
Perhaps you may want to consider boundaries that you can live with. I found it easier to start small and sort of get the hang of saying what I mean and meaning what I say. (because I was a real people pleaser so if I said something others didn't like, I would back down quickly) Is there something you can think of that would make you more comfortable in your home? Perhaps requiring him to go to counseling with an addiction specialist? Maybe there might even be a way to incorporate drug testing with the counselor so you aren't the one administering and doling out consequences for a dirty result? Just some thoughts...
My daughter's primary drug was opiates (she ended up snorting heroin) and when she was taking them, she usually was quite "nice" - social, talkative, in a good mood, so I understand what you mean about your son wearing them well. It was when she increased dosage that I'd see the slurring, the nodding off, etc. If she used something else, like coke or crack, her personality changed completely. It was very unsettling time - I didn't know who I was going to be greeted by when I would encounter her.
Perhaps you may want to consider boundaries that you can live with. I found it easier to start small and sort of get the hang of saying what I mean and meaning what I say. (because I was a real people pleaser so if I said something others didn't like, I would back down quickly) Is there something you can think of that would make you more comfortable in your home? Perhaps requiring him to go to counseling with an addiction specialist? Maybe there might even be a way to incorporate drug testing with the counselor so you aren't the one administering and doling out consequences for a dirty result? Just some thoughts...
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: New York
Posts: 277
Originally Posted by Seren 
Such a short amount of time to try to really understand what you are facing and trying to learn all about addiction. It does seem so overwhelming at first--I do remember that very well.
Some of us have experienced violence and threats of violence from our addicted family members. My stepson threatened to 3 members of his own family during the most active days of his crack addiction. That is why we ask, because we are concerned for your safety. Plus, you deserve to be treated with kindness and respect in your own home!
So if I am understanding you correctly, you say that your son has relapsed one weekend since finishing the IOP program (at least that you know of right now)? If he thinks he would prefer individual counseling to group therapy, there are many options he can explore. Perhaps suggest a visit to his doctor to discuss his options.
Some of us have experienced violence and threats of violence from our addicted family members. My stepson threatened to 3 members of his own family during the most active days of his crack addiction. That is why we ask, because we are concerned for your safety. Plus, you deserve to be treated with kindness and respect in your own home!
So if I am understanding you correctly, you say that your son has relapsed one weekend since finishing the IOP program (at least that you know of right now)? If he thinks he would prefer individual counseling to group therapy, there are many options he can explore. Perhaps suggest a visit to his doctor to discuss his options.
Thanks
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: New York
Posts: 277
Originally Posted by greeteachday
I think you will find varying opinions on whether it is helpful to drug test. Some people believe it is a good way to make sure that their loved one isn't using; others find it to be demeaning, and still others would like to drug test but are not sure what they would do if the test came back dirty (or if it came back clean when they were sure their loved one was using. This happens - clever addicts find ways to beat the tests) If you don't feel comfortable drug testing - at least for now - no matter what your reason, I would suggest considering whether drug testing is the right option for you at this point.
My daughter's primary drug was opiates (she ended up snorting heroin) and when she was taking them, she usually was quite "nice" - social, talkative, in a good mood, so I understand what you mean about your son wearing them well. It was when she increased dosage that I'd see the slurring, the nodding off, etc. If she used something else, like coke or crack, her personality changed completely. It was very unsettling time - I didn't know who I was going to be greeted by when I would encounter her.
Perhaps you may want to consider boundaries that you can live with. I found it easier to start small and sort of get the hang of saying what I mean and meaning what I say. (because I was a real people pleaser so if I said something others didn't like, I would back down quickly) Is there something you can think of that would make you more comfortable in your home? Perhaps requiring him to go to counseling with an addiction specialist? Maybe there might even be a way to incorporate drug testing with the counselor so you aren't the one administering and doling out consequences for a dirty result? Just some thoughts...
My daughter's primary drug was opiates (she ended up snorting heroin) and when she was taking them, she usually was quite "nice" - social, talkative, in a good mood, so I understand what you mean about your son wearing them well. It was when she increased dosage that I'd see the slurring, the nodding off, etc. If she used something else, like coke or crack, her personality changed completely. It was very unsettling time - I didn't know who I was going to be greeted by when I would encounter her.
Perhaps you may want to consider boundaries that you can live with. I found it easier to start small and sort of get the hang of saying what I mean and meaning what I say. (because I was a real people pleaser so if I said something others didn't like, I would back down quickly) Is there something you can think of that would make you more comfortable in your home? Perhaps requiring him to go to counseling with an addiction specialist? Maybe there might even be a way to incorporate drug testing with the counselor so you aren't the one administering and doling out consequences for a dirty result? Just some thoughts...
Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: CA
Posts: 10,681
I am not prepared at this time to do anything but show him the options that could be avaiable if he wants the help. That's all I can do at this time.
Sober since 10th April 2012
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 6,047
Rosie, is there a meeting of NarAnon near you? This org is for the F&F, not the addicts and there you'll meet many people who have been in your shoes and found ways to stay healthy themselves and not get sucked in to the addict vortex. They also have a program you can work to give you the tools to support but not enable the addict.
It doesn't sound hopeful for your son if he won't go to in patient, and has already relapsed on the weekend. The key is him wanting to stop, and if that's in place he would be quite capable of finding his own sponsor or counsellor, of sticking to a treatment regime, of doing what it takes. You running around finding resources for a 21 yo who can do that for himself points to how much you want him to be clean, rather than his desire.
It doesn't sound hopeful for your son if he won't go to in patient, and has already relapsed on the weekend. The key is him wanting to stop, and if that's in place he would be quite capable of finding his own sponsor or counsellor, of sticking to a treatment regime, of doing what it takes. You running around finding resources for a 21 yo who can do that for himself points to how much you want him to be clean, rather than his desire.
RIP Maria
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: AR
Posts: 7,654
Hi everyone!
I wanted to share this info with y'all! I already knew this and figured for y'all wanting to drug test others? This info just might help you w/o doing a drug test!
1.) Opiate use / abuse / overdose
Opiate class drugs such as Heroin, Fentanyl, Codeine, Methadone and Morphine stimulate the parasympathetic side of the autonomic nervous system and cause pupil constriction. While it varies depending on your response area, most of the constricted pupils that you encounter in the field will be opiate induced.
Look for possible sources of drug use or abuse from prescription meds to illicit drugs. Evaluate the patient for track marks across the veins and the scene for paraphernalia like spoons, tin foil, matches, syringes and makeshift tourniquets. Don’t rule out opiates in pediatrics. Miosis in combination with depressed respirations are the hallmark signs of opiate overdose.
When I was taking the opiates my pupils were very small. I also see it in my husband's eyes. The pain pills also affect mine and husbands breathing.
Hope this helps!
TOD
I wanted to share this info with y'all! I already knew this and figured for y'all wanting to drug test others? This info just might help you w/o doing a drug test!
1.) Opiate use / abuse / overdose
Opiate class drugs such as Heroin, Fentanyl, Codeine, Methadone and Morphine stimulate the parasympathetic side of the autonomic nervous system and cause pupil constriction. While it varies depending on your response area, most of the constricted pupils that you encounter in the field will be opiate induced.
Look for possible sources of drug use or abuse from prescription meds to illicit drugs. Evaluate the patient for track marks across the veins and the scene for paraphernalia like spoons, tin foil, matches, syringes and makeshift tourniquets. Don’t rule out opiates in pediatrics. Miosis in combination with depressed respirations are the hallmark signs of opiate overdose.
When I was taking the opiates my pupils were very small. I also see it in my husband's eyes. The pain pills also affect mine and husbands breathing.
Hope this helps!
TOD
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: WI
Posts: 1,426
Dear Rosie,
I just had to say to you, you have my support and encouragement.
When my 19yr old daughter was at her lowest pit with heroin, she agreed
to detox (after a susicide attempt) then to IOP. She WANTED and DESIRED
to go, and went 4 days a week for two months. She went happily and the
therapists got thru to her, helped her learn the tools and had her compose
a plan in case of relaspe.
If your son wants to go he will accept their treatments. I found that I couldn't
force her to go. That was 18 months of sobriety. She returned to us!
Now, we are facing the dreaded but always around, relaspe. Do I drug test her?
She denied opiates but not alcohol. HELLO? Isn't a drug, is a drug is a drug?
She's almost 21. If I drug test her, will she go for a tune up at IOP? Not so sure
this time, she has her tools and her plan, but, will she honor and use them?
I'm setting boundaries, but I'm not going back to those painful dark days of
full blown heroin addiction.
She know what she learned. I can't or won't force IOP or detox. But I will work
on me, the sadness, isolation and fear.
Good luck and I will be thinking of you
TF
I just had to say to you, you have my support and encouragement.
When my 19yr old daughter was at her lowest pit with heroin, she agreed
to detox (after a susicide attempt) then to IOP. She WANTED and DESIRED
to go, and went 4 days a week for two months. She went happily and the
therapists got thru to her, helped her learn the tools and had her compose
a plan in case of relaspe.
If your son wants to go he will accept their treatments. I found that I couldn't
force her to go. That was 18 months of sobriety. She returned to us!
Now, we are facing the dreaded but always around, relaspe. Do I drug test her?
She denied opiates but not alcohol. HELLO? Isn't a drug, is a drug is a drug?
She's almost 21. If I drug test her, will she go for a tune up at IOP? Not so sure
this time, she has her tools and her plan, but, will she honor and use them?
I'm setting boundaries, but I'm not going back to those painful dark days of
full blown heroin addiction.
She know what she learned. I can't or won't force IOP or detox. But I will work
on me, the sadness, isolation and fear.
Good luck and I will be thinking of you
TF
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: New York
Posts: 277
Originally Posted by Twofish
Dear Rosie,
I just had to say to you, you have my support and encouragement.
When my 19yr old daughter was at her lowest pit with heroin, she agreed
to detox (after a susicide attempt) then to IOP. She WANTED and DESIRED
to go, and went 4 days a week for two months. She went happily and the
therapists got thru to her, helped her learn the tools and had her compose
a plan in case of relaspe.
If your son wants to go he will accept their treatments. I found that I couldn't
force her to go. That was 18 months of sobriety. She returned to us!
Now, we are facing the dreaded but always around, relaspe. Do I drug test her?
She denied opiates but not alcohol. HELLO? Isn't a drug, is a drug is a drug?
She's almost 21. If I drug test her, will she go for a tune up at IOP? Not so sure
this time, she has her tools and her plan, but, will she honor and use them?
I'm setting boundaries, but I'm not going back to those painful dark days of
full blown heroin addiction.
She know what she learned. I can't or won't force IOP or detox. But I will work
on me, the sadness, isolation and fear.
Good luck and I will be thinking of you
TF
I just had to say to you, you have my support and encouragement.
When my 19yr old daughter was at her lowest pit with heroin, she agreed
to detox (after a susicide attempt) then to IOP. She WANTED and DESIRED
to go, and went 4 days a week for two months. She went happily and the
therapists got thru to her, helped her learn the tools and had her compose
a plan in case of relaspe.
If your son wants to go he will accept their treatments. I found that I couldn't
force her to go. That was 18 months of sobriety. She returned to us!
Now, we are facing the dreaded but always around, relaspe. Do I drug test her?
She denied opiates but not alcohol. HELLO? Isn't a drug, is a drug is a drug?
She's almost 21. If I drug test her, will she go for a tune up at IOP? Not so sure
this time, she has her tools and her plan, but, will she honor and use them?
I'm setting boundaries, but I'm not going back to those painful dark days of
full blown heroin addiction.
She know what she learned. I can't or won't force IOP or detox. But I will work
on me, the sadness, isolation and fear.
Good luck and I will be thinking of you
TF
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: New York
Posts: 277
Originally Posted by FeelingGreat
Rosie, is there a meeting of NarAnon near you? This org is for the F&F, not the addicts and there you'll meet many people who have been in your shoes and found ways to stay healthy themselves and not get sucked in to the addict vortex. They also have a program you can work to give you the tools to support but not enable the addict.
It doesn't sound hopeful for your son if he won't go to in patient, and has already relapsed on the weekend. The key is him wanting to stop, and if that's in place he would be quite capable of finding his own sponsor or counsellor, of sticking to a treatment regime, of doing what it takes. You running around finding resources for a 21 yo who can do that for himself points to how much you want him to be clean, rather than his desire.
It doesn't sound hopeful for your son if he won't go to in patient, and has already relapsed on the weekend. The key is him wanting to stop, and if that's in place he would be quite capable of finding his own sponsor or counsellor, of sticking to a treatment regime, of doing what it takes. You running around finding resources for a 21 yo who can do that for himself points to how much you want him to be clean, rather than his desire.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: New York
Posts: 277
Originally Posted by Tiredofdrugs
Hi everyone!
I wanted to share this info with y'all! I already knew this and figured for y'all wanting to drug test others? This info just might help you w/o doing a drug test!
1.) Opiate use / abuse / overdose
Opiate class drugs such as Heroin, Fentanyl, Codeine, Methadone and Morphine stimulate the parasympathetic side of the autonomic nervous system and cause pupil constriction. While it varies depending on your response area, most of the constricted pupils that you encounter in the field will be opiate induced.
Look for possible sources of drug use or abuse from prescription meds to illicit drugs. Evaluate the patient for track marks across the veins and the scene for paraphernalia like spoons, tin foil, matches, syringes and makeshift tourniquets. Don’t rule out opiates in pediatrics. Miosis in combination with depressed respirations are the hallmark signs of opiate overdose.
When I was taking the opiates my pupils were very small. I also see it in my husband's eyes. The pain pills also affect mine and husbands breathing.
Hope this helps!
TOD
I wanted to share this info with y'all! I already knew this and figured for y'all wanting to drug test others? This info just might help you w/o doing a drug test!
1.) Opiate use / abuse / overdose
Opiate class drugs such as Heroin, Fentanyl, Codeine, Methadone and Morphine stimulate the parasympathetic side of the autonomic nervous system and cause pupil constriction. While it varies depending on your response area, most of the constricted pupils that you encounter in the field will be opiate induced.
Look for possible sources of drug use or abuse from prescription meds to illicit drugs. Evaluate the patient for track marks across the veins and the scene for paraphernalia like spoons, tin foil, matches, syringes and makeshift tourniquets. Don’t rule out opiates in pediatrics. Miosis in combination with depressed respirations are the hallmark signs of opiate overdose.
When I was taking the opiates my pupils were very small. I also see it in my husband's eyes. The pain pills also affect mine and husbands breathing.
Hope this helps!
TOD
RIP Maria
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: AR
Posts: 7,654
Originally Posted by Rosie2015
What do you mean by breathing issues?? I understand the eyes for sure.
I'm sure there's more info about it on the web in a medical description!
TOD
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
