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Old 05-27-2015, 04:57 PM   #101 (permalink)
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I also believe that some time ago one of the mods gave me a very different impression of the confidentiality of PM's.


I believe I was that mod.
I don't back away from anything I told you and I wasn't fudging.

The other mods and I certainly don't have access to PMs - unless they're reported, of course.

Don't forget PMs can be deleted by users at any time.

It is standard practice on all internet boards I've been on for all content to be owned by the owners.

D
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Old 05-27-2015, 05:20 PM   #102 (permalink)
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Thanks Dee. When a user deletes "private" messages are they deleted from all internet brands system backups of the site, or are they stored somewhere for possible later use by the owners (internet brands) of that PM?
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Old 05-27-2015, 05:21 PM   #103 (permalink)
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Hi Twofishes. I am glad you found this thread so you can actually try to take corrective action. I think that if you make up another email then go to
User CP
Click on edit your details
then under settings and options click on email and change it
you have a chance of being ok and not receiving that email.

You can either create a mainstream email or use throwawaymail which is a temporary email generator one can use to sign up for forums or send one time only messages.

I hope this helped
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Old 05-27-2015, 05:27 PM   #104 (permalink)
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When a user deletes "private" messages are they deleted from all internet brands system backups of the site, or are they stored somewhere for possible later use by the owners (internet brands) of that PM?
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I have no idea awuh.

I've never been able to get PMs back for people when they've accidentally deleted some, so I'd assume when you delete the content is totally deleted.

The logistics of keeping every PM here would be staggering and I can't think of what 'use' they could be put to.

I understand the worry people have - but I think the PM thing is a storm in the teacup.

If it makes anyone happier, just email me in future.

D
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Old 05-27-2015, 05:29 PM   #105 (permalink)
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Does SR ever remove inactive members? After a certain length of inactivity?

I feel bad for people who maybe signed up a long time ago, things worked out and now a newsletter may pop up in their email for their whole family to possible view.

These days families often share laptops, tablets even with their children. Email apps often pop right up on the screen showing you have incoming mail and who its from without mail account even being opened.

Doesnt seem safe for some members IMO.
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Old 05-27-2015, 06:21 PM   #106 (permalink)
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Personally I have assumed that someone at SR could read these PM's if they ever felt the need. The content of mine has been rather tame. My problem is with the term "private" in labeling this type of communication, particularly on a site where so much personal information is exchanged.

I respectfully disagree about this being a tempest in a teacup Dee. If it's no big deal then internet brands could readily relinquish ownership of "private" messages and fully disclose if there have been backup copy's of the PM's which have been previously deleted. No big deal? I'll believe it when private messages are given back to their creators. Somehow I don't think that's going to happen. In fact I'll be surprised if we are told exactly who has access to them and under what circumstances.

Sorry to be so frank about these concerns. I think this whole newsletter thing has exposed a degree of insensitivity about the issue of confidentiality. This has displayed vulnerabilities which many people feel while participating in recovery at this site.

I must say that I am pleased that these concerns have been allowed to be aired. My hope is that they are addressed.

I think something like a membership advisory panel could be quite beneficial actually. Non addict/alcoholics have a difficult time understanding some of these issues.
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Old 05-27-2015, 06:37 PM   #107 (permalink)
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Just to introduce a sense of comparison here: Senator Jim Sensenbrenner, the architect of The Patriot Act was all over talk radio today detailing how two courts have now found that US intelligence agencies are recording every electronic communication in the US, from/to the US, and possibly the world. Ordered to stop, as it's direct violation of law, they aren't. And any country in the world that can is doing the same.

There is no privacy anymore. Don't be too hurt over another corporation following the lead of the beloved leaders.

I'm starting to sound like a conspiracy theorist. Like the ref says to the boxers: "Protect yourselves at all times".
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Old 05-27-2015, 06:42 PM   #108 (permalink)
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There are 2 issues going on here. A privacy issue, and the issue of the people running this place not caring about people who use it and keep it alive. We're being completely ignored, because well, it doesn't matter to them. I hope everyone really thinks long and hard about that.
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Old 05-27-2015, 06:45 PM   #109 (permalink)
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Dee, Emily and all the wonderful SR community,
I have great respect for you...you have helped me so much these past few years, in PMs and in the forums, but, respectfully, when you say this is a tempest in a tea cup...hurt. My only non addicted child, now may not be placed with me, or all my "dirty laundry" possibly will be aired at my divorce hearing. He wants to stay with me. I am so tired of being "judged" by uneducated people on the subject of addiction. I didn't put those pills in their mouths or needles in their arms....their disease did, not their momma.
I reached out to SR during the most horrific thing to happen or to realize, that addiction is part of my daughters lives. Will I yet again be judged as a "bad" mom because I didn't see it coming, until it was right at my doorstep?
I won't blame you, you only helped me understand this disease. But, I share an e-mail with the almost ex, he's gonna have a field day with it and yet add some more $hitty drama to an already over saturated dramatic filled life.
I can always look for a support group for damaged mommas of addicts who unfortunately had her dirty laundry used to hurt her.
I am very concerned right now....
Respectfully,
TF
PS Carlotta...I will try to figure out a different e-mail to use to try to stear this newsletter somewhere else. Thank you for listening to my post and helping me
TF
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Old 05-27-2015, 06:57 PM   #110 (permalink)
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If Emily will let people know what email address the newsletter will be coming from, perhaps people with custody/safety issues can block it in advance?

JoeNerv, yes there's the trust thing. The sense of violation. We each have to address that internally because for many of us the perception of having been violated is both a trigger -- and an excuse. To behave alcoholically, even to use. We need to think about that, too.

I think the biggest concern, which I hope "management" (so Orwellian) has become aware of, is that if any member in an abusive relationship gets hurt or worse because his/her participation in the forums leads to an outburst by the abusive A, there will be a lawsuit such as "management" never wants to see.
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Old 05-27-2015, 06:57 PM   #111 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by awuh1 View Post
Personally I have assumed that someone at SR could read these PM's if they ever felt the need. The content of mine has been rather tame. My problem is with the term "private" in labeling this type of communication, particularly on a site where so much personal information is exchanged.

I respectfully disagree about this being a tempest in a teacup Dee. If it's no big deal then internet brands could readily relinquish ownership of "private" messages and fully disclose if there have been backup copy's of the PM's which have been previously deleted. No big deal? I'll believe it when private messages are given back to their creators. Somehow I don't think that's going to happen. In fact I'll be surprised if we are told exactly who has access to them and under what circumstances.

Sorry to be so frank about these concerns. I think this whole newsletter thing has exposed a degree of insensitivity about the issue of confidentiality. This has displayed vulnerabilities which many people feel while participating in recovery at this site.

I must say that I am pleased that these concerns have been allowed to be aired. My hope is that they are addressed.

I think something like a membership advisory panel could be quite beneficial actually. Non addict/alcoholics have a difficult time understanding some of these issues.

I feel the Terms of Use posted on Internet Brands should have a prominent link here on SR so its clear to members, and those who consider membership what the policies are. This is but one clause in the terms of use listed on their website

"You automatically grant and assign to us, and you represent and warrant that you have the right to grant and assign to us, a perpetual, irrevocable, unlimited, fully paid, fully sub-licensable (through multiple tiers), worldwide license to copy, perform, display, distribute, prepare derivative works from (including, without limitation, incorporating into other works) and otherwise use any content that you post."

Anything we write on the forum or in a pm can be used in any way Internet Brands deems useful to their organization. The problem I see is people come here in distress, maybe under the influence, traumatized, vulnerable and they may not be in a state of mind to consider Privacy Policies and Terms of Use especially when they are not displayed prominently on this site.

I stopped using PMs here a while ago for anything personal because I felt it was not safe for me.
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Old 05-27-2015, 07:04 PM   #112 (permalink)
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The forum PMs have always been private. I am the only one that has ever gone into a member's account to read a PM. That has happened around 5 times when a few members were a serious threat to SR members. They were predators with complaints from women.

The only way I can read a forum PM is by changing the password and logging into the account. No one knows your password and can't put your password back in after it's changed. I would never violate anyone's privacy by reading a PM without serious cause. There is a product available that would allow us to read all PMs. We have never installed that because we value your PM privacy.

The forum backups are frequent. The PMs on the backup are probably only stored until the next backup. Backups are necessary. We lost 300,000 posts once when the backup was corrupted.

Chat PMs are not private. Any time we need to review the chat transcripts the PMs show up in the transcript. We don't look at the chat transcripts regularly. We check them when we become aware of a problem.

Random postings from the community has been on the main page for many, many years. The SR forum system has sent out automatic birthday messages to everyone's email addresses since the beginning and we have never received a complaint. Sometimes a member will email asking to be removed from the mailing list and we change their settings.

The previous owners added the twitter tags and other tags. They are no longer under each post.
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Old 05-27-2015, 07:22 PM   #113 (permalink)
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I feel the Terms of Use posted on Internet Brands should have a prominent link here on SR so its clear to members, and those who consider membership what the policies are. This is but one clause in the terms of use listed on their website

"You automatically grant and assign to us, and you represent and warrant that you have the right to grant and assign to us, a perpetual, irrevocable, unlimited, fully paid, fully sub-licensable (through multiple tiers), worldwide license to copy, perform, display, distribute, prepare derivative works from (including, without limitation, incorporating into other works) and otherwise use any content that you post."

Anything we write on the forum or in a pm can be used in any way Internet Brands deems useful to their organization. The problem I see is people come here in distress, maybe under the influence, traumatized, vulnerable and they may not be in a state of mind to consider Privacy Policies and Terms of Use especially when they are not displayed prominently on this site.

I stopped using PMs here a while ago for anything personal because I felt it was not safe for me.
What percentage of people read privacy policies. Right or wrong I bet very few. These forums can be a great tool. Unfortunately once the trust is gone, it's gone. If people get the idea that their is any chance that their most private, painful cries for help are going to be used in marketing ploys, they will be much less likely to reach out. Too bad actually. That's the way the world of any big business rolls though.
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Old 05-27-2015, 07:25 PM   #114 (permalink)
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My concern here is that the powers that be do not want us to alert other members here of what is going to happen. We cannot talk about this on other threads, but have to use this one. To me, it seems that the 'owners' want as many members as possible to receive this newsletter. Alerting other members is being discouraged, by limiting where we can post about it.

I am aware that Money is made from creating a blog/newsletter, and having as many clicks on it as possible. I feel this is the purpose of the newsletter.

I believe that every member here needs to be notified of this, so that they can be prepared , in case of sensitive situations at home. And simply as a matter of respect for the members.

Why are we not informing SR members, through a specific thread , other than in this obscure place which I have personally not visited ? The answer is obvious.
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Old 05-27-2015, 07:29 PM   #115 (permalink)
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Could I suggest and request that this newsletter be delayed a few day in order for people to protect themselves as they feel the need?
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Old 05-27-2015, 07:31 PM   #116 (permalink)
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There are threads posted in other forums directing members to this thread.
It gets too confusing having feedback on numerous threads.
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Old 05-27-2015, 07:40 PM   #117 (permalink)
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That still leaves out tons of people who no longer use the forum. Or who haven't logged in this week, or realized the importance of what this thread is about. Just because someone sees it, doesn't mean they're going to open up the thread. I almost didn't.

When is this supposed to happen, anyhow?
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Old 05-27-2015, 07:49 PM   #118 (permalink)
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Only Emily can answer some of the questions.

The only history I have of concerns over emails are the Birthday Greeting emails. We send out 200 to 300 birthday greetings a day to every registered member and there have been no complaints.
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Old 05-27-2015, 07:52 PM   #119 (permalink)
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Only Emily can answer some of the questions.

The only history I have of concerns over emails are the Birthday Greeting emails. We send out 200 to 300 birthday greetings a day to every registered member and there have been no complaints.
Gave up birthdays decades ago.
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Old 05-27-2015, 08:11 PM   #120 (permalink)
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Only Emily can answer some of the questions.

The only history I have of concerns over emails are the Birthday Greeting emails. We send out 200 to 300 birthday greetings a day to every registered member and there have been no complaints.
Thanks, Morning Glory.

This is helpful context. So far, the announcement about the newsletter has been read -- if my math is correct -- 2,478 times. I agree that there are very legitimate concerns about the safety of members. I hope all needs can be met with the well-being of our members being paramount as well as acknowledgement that the newsletter may be welcomed by many as yet another tool to help them achieve and maintain sobriety.
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