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Old 10-21-2014, 12:11 AM   #61 (permalink)
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It can be voted on at group conscience.

If the majority vote it, policy stands.
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Old 10-21-2014, 08:12 AM   #62 (permalink)
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It can be voted on at group conscience.

If the majority vote it, policy stands.
the best bet is for the posh well off members to stick to there own groups and leave the low life drunks to people who work the program as thats how it is around my area in many meetings

they talk a good talk about the program but when it comes to simple things like swearing in a meeting they can not cope with it

god knows how they would cope with a real problem in life

our primary purpose is to stay sober and help the still suffering alcoholic
that doesn't mean we only help those who don't swear

the only requirement for aa membership is a desire to stop drinking, not a desire to stop swearing.

members can not go against those principles in aa or they shouldn't

if they do then they need to advertize it in the local press so that no new comers show up who swear at there meetings.

as you dont want to waste new comers time by getting them to come to a meeting like yours were you would kick them out for swearing


there was a girl who used to come around aa a good few years ago she was a big girl with a very loud and aggressive nature, she was angry at the world and would come to the meetings sometimes drunk, she just couldn't get it, she would swear like a trooper getting her anger out and most of us would sit there and just let it go over our heads as we understood the pain she was in
as part of my 12 step i have always had to learn how to give out hugs as part of my growing anyway i had to give this girl a hug and she was a like an angry mike tyson, but i did it and i didnt run away and the poor girl cried when i gave her a hug lol

anyway that was 5 years or so ago
today she is now a group leader of a group, she doesnt swear, she is calm and at peace she is one of the most amazing transformations i have seen in aa apart from my own that is as i to was an angry man when i first came in and swore like a trooper

if you had your way both me and her would of been kicked out of aa and many many more members besides, that attitude of take it back to the bars is a total nonsense one and really you should be ashamed of that stance

we have to be open to all and that means all
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Old 10-22-2014, 07:05 AM   #63 (permalink)
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Pete, my family blew apart when I was 15, Dad gambled all the money and left and Mum was too proud to sign on for welfare. She also didn't get out of bed, literally for 6 months, then spent another 6 in a psychiatric ward.

I left school (not that I was there much Anyways) to get a job to support my little sister and Mum.

Your not the only one with a tough working class story.
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Old 10-22-2014, 07:23 AM   #64 (permalink)
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The rehab my sponsor is a director of is the only meeting I know in my area that states at the start to please refrain from swearing.

I'm especially mindful of it at our church meetings.

As was mentioned in a few posts back, a group conscience to have no swearing placed on the meeting format .
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Old 10-22-2014, 03:23 PM   #65 (permalink)
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Pete, my family blew apart when I was 15, Dad gambled all the money and left and Mum was too proud to sign on for welfare. She also didn't get out of bed, literally for 6 months, then spent another 6 in a psychiatric ward.

I left school (not that I was there much Anyways) to get a job to support my little sister and Mum.

Your not the only one with a tough working class story.
its not about having a touch working class story my friend its about what aa is about and how we help people if they swear or not

i have had this debate many a time in meetings with memebers who will not go to a meeting if there is swearing in them

that means they will not help a suffering drunk in my eyes as there putting there own moral slant on things

somthing if there working a program should be gone, we are there to help others who are less fortunate than ourselves, give them time and you will find that they end up stopping swearing themselves, but if you put the blocks on helping someone just because they swear well your not the aa that i would want to be a part of
and belive me we do have many meetings around my area that are full of people who never lost there wives or kids or never ended up in jails or lost anything in there lives really with the drink other than the guilt shame and remorse side of things that comes from making the fool of ourselves part

and these people will sit and judge others who are clearly in a worse state than they have ever been in

thats were the snobery creeps into aa,
dont know if you know what its like to go home from a meeting to an empty flat with nothing and no one around you anymore ?
imagine if you didnt have a wife or kids to go home to then tell me you wouldnt feel like shouting a few f words around as your hurting or angry at the world ?

i have no time for aa snobery as thats what it is, either except and help drunks or dont but let gso know that your putting your own rules on meetings first on conduct of memebers or new comers
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Old 10-22-2014, 03:58 PM   #66 (permalink)
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my group would not chuck a brand newcomer for swearing.

We've all been there.

It's more about the ones that come from other meetings with years of sobriety and still sound like they are days away from their last drink.

I don't think it's a bad thing to guide a newcomer towards not swearing up a storm everytime they open their mouth.

It's not about being judgemental. It's helping them get back on their feet.

How are they going to get a job if they think it's OK to turn the air blue in any life situation.

One F bomb in a job interview and the reality is, they probably just shot themselves in the foot.

Might seem a bit controlling and tough love, but then again, a bit of tough love is just the thing for a lot of alcoholics.

Members gave me plenty, didn't particularly like it, but they were right to tell me to pull my big fat head in a few times.

No one's saying never swear, just don't swear for 5 minutes sharing... It's not too much to ask is it?
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Old 10-22-2014, 05:32 PM   #67 (permalink)
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Wow - so many directions to go with this thread. I think I'll sit on it a while and then comment.

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Old 10-22-2014, 05:51 PM   #68 (permalink)
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Some people do not even hear themselves cursing.
Some people do it to express themselves.
It is no harm to have a standard.
I do find it strange when someone with many years sober, curses or is crude.
The newcomer is going to learn a lot about life.
One thing is, we can express ourselves quite well without cursing.
That said, I go through phases. I curse. I don't like it.
It's not "ladylike".
By the way, this is a really old [email protected]#king thread.
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Old 10-22-2014, 05:54 PM   #69 (permalink)
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Lol
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Old 10-22-2014, 07:57 PM   #70 (permalink)
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By the way, this is a really old [email protected]#king thread.
I started this thread because of a person who had 30 yrs in AA would deliberately sit in a meeting and drop the F Bomb knowing that an older lady who was alcoholic (she has passed since this thread was posted) she would cringe each time it happened. She and her husband passed in the last 18 months with close to 100 years of sobriety between them. They came from the old school of Alcoholics Anonymous where common principles like respect and courtesy were practiced. "Step 12: "Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps we tried to carry this message to alcoholics and practice these principles in all our affairs." ..... What are the principles practiced in AA???.....do you think maybe respect and courtesy might be good principles to practice?

I have recordings of Bill W. and Dr. Bob and have not heard one foul word.
Then again I have recordings of Johnny Harris and Clancy and they are very colorful.

I have been taking meetings into prison for the last 9 years (best meetings I go to) and I find much respect there.....I wonder why that is? You would think it would be the other way around.

I still can not figure out what this being an old thread has to do with anything, Hollyanne please enlighten me on this.

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Old 10-22-2014, 08:35 PM   #71 (permalink)
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I thought about it and -

I still am of the mindset that the third and twelfth tradition is primary here. As long as I have a desire to stop drinking and am putting principles before personalities I belong in AA and have a seat. Gee, if only the founding fathers (for USA residents) had thought to put something in the constitution about freedom of speech ;-)

I have just under 30 years of sobriety and....
You may not like me, you may not like what I have to say, I do not want to be put on a pedestal, and the highest office in AA is sobriety. I came here to get sober, how I do that is working the steps etc. I do not claim to know gods will. I do know this though, I have met many a newcomer that did not relate to the church going, non-cussing types, perhaps in time, but not initially. It takes all types and thankfully, we have all types.

Again, I hope I will never intentional offend others, in AA or out of it, that being said, I am not responsible for your emotions, what you consider offensive and values. I am also not responsible for your sobriety, I think that's better left in God’s hands.

I am however responsible for me. As long as I can look in the mirror and like the guy looking back, I'm alright with that, I’m doing better than I had for a long time. I have done many things I regret in life and made many amends. I do not recall ever needing to make amends for cussing...then again, I'm not dead yet ;-)

In my opinion it is unfortunate that some are turned off by the cussing. I think that if we pay attention, all of God’s children have a message to share. Some may not be able to share as eloquently as we’d like, but if we look past that, there may be a valuable message.

I may be an odd duck here, but soooo many things in life get on my nerves, cussing in meeting doesn’t phase me. I guess I just it never has. I tend to try to meet people where they are at, many get here cussing and smoking and extremely self-centered, I was once there myself. I thank God and the old timers, they put up with my nonsense until I could alter some of these things.

Hopefully, we all change, we all grow.

I don’t think I know Gods plan – perhaps the one thing that draws the next newcomer to his second meeting was the fact that the little old lady sitting next to him cussed like a sailor and no one cared…finally a place where he fit in.

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Old 10-22-2014, 08:56 PM   #72 (permalink)
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If it's a choice to be offended then it's a choice to be offensive.

Carry this message?

Or

Carry this fxx#*ng message?
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Old 10-22-2014, 09:18 PM   #73 (permalink)
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I agree 100% - you can make the choice to be offensive.

Now, whether a person is actually offended by what you say or do is up to them.

Try as you might, they may choose to laugh rather than be offended.

I can be as intentionally irritating as possible, but that does not be people are irritaed by me.


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Old 10-22-2014, 09:28 PM   #74 (permalink)
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If I was to choose to be offensive, I'd have to consider it as inconsiderate... Step 10 inventory worthy?

I think yes.

But thats just me.
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Old 10-22-2014, 09:28 PM   #75 (permalink)
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i sometimes feel that aa is more for the middle class type of drunk who is well mannered and well behaved
we have 3 meetings in my home town that i have stopped going to only because they talk bull in there meetings
they go on and on about how much the program has changed them but let someone dare swear in there company and watch out world
they have no compassion for people and its sad but true they really are in a world of there own
they call these meetings the posh aa its a standard joke around the other rooms of the fellowship i dont know if you have them in the states or not ? but i suspect they would do as it can not only be here in england we have this 2 tier drunk type of thing ?
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Old 10-22-2014, 09:50 PM   #76 (permalink)
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If I was to choose to be offensive, I'd have to consider it as inconsiderate... Step 10 inventory worthy?

I think yes.

But thats just me.
I agree - if you are choosing to offensive you may owe an amends.

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Old 10-23-2014, 02:44 AM   #77 (permalink)
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Toad,
You just proved a point.
Captain laughed,
You seem offended.
What was my intention?
To offend?
To make a little joke?
To point out that it was an old thread?

The way you single out my comment could be interpreted as aggressive.
For me, I don't "do" intimidated.
The some of all my experiences so far, determine a lot of my actions and reactions.

I am more likely to go off in tears if someone is nice to me. LOL.

By the way, great thread, even if it is really old.....just saying.
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Old 10-23-2014, 03:31 AM   #78 (permalink)
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I disagree with this Astro. I hope we can agree to disagree peacefully. I do respect what you have to say on this forum.

Anything said in my presence that is meant to be disrespectful to me and my beliefs is my business. I will let someone walk on me a little, and that is tolerance, but you keep stomping and I'm going to bust your azz (spiritualy speaking).
I gotta be honest here. I think you have a choice of either working towards changing your attitudes regarding all this, or being a very unhappy sober dude. I understand all you've been saying regarding this guy's cursing, but he's not doing anything to you or anyone else. It's what you're doing to yourself regarding his behavior. You and everyone else can react to his words any way you choose. You can laugh at it, or you can let it get you angry enough where you beat the guy up. You can love and accept that he has issues and needs to work them out, or you can do everything in your power to control his behavior. A huge part of having a contented sobriety for me has to do with knowing what to own, and what not to own. This would clearly be for me one of the things I'd need to work at letting go of. I'm sure some people have no issue whatsoever with his cursing. I know I wouldn't if I were at that meeting. And if I did, and I absolutely couldn't let it go, then I'd find another meeting. Whenever I'm looking to change other people as opposed to changing myself, I know I'm in trouble. My best guess from what you've already said in this thread is that you're going to disagree with all this, but I really think you're headed for trouble if you stay on your current path regarding this issue.

That being said, here are some of the choices you have as far as I can see:

- Beat the guy up
- Discuss at the next business meeting that you announce at the beginning of the meeting that the group does not approve of profanity (I've seen this done in more than one place).
- Love and accept the guy regardless of his anger issues.
- Find another group.

While I'm far from ever being a BB thumper, it's times like this where I think the 4th step guidelines can be real helpful. An honest look at our resentmens, looking for wherever WE might be at fault in any given situation can come in really handy at times like this. It's often a tough pill to swallow, but works. It says in there that we pray, too, for those who we feel offended us.

This guy isn't hurting you. You're hurting you.

[edit] Didn't read the entire thread before posting, nor notice that it's an old thread (it is, right?). Looking very much forward to reading it all now.... .
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Old 10-23-2014, 05:44 AM   #79 (permalink)
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Here's the rest of the story....The gentleman who intentionally set out to offend lady who did not want hear vulgarity, had been around this rural community for a few years. He moved here when he married a local woman. He is a psychology professor and came out of the hippy movement of the late sixties (he and I had a lot in common and shared many of our experiences). I am going to take his inventory so please bare with me, as mentioned I'll do a 10th step if needed.

This Gentleman who is my friend today, has been some what arrogant in the past. The woman he married was tired of his BS and was giving him a divorce. He came into the relationship with nothing and they lived on a farm (hippie dream) that was purchased with her money. Needless to say his attitude sucked at the time.
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Old 10-23-2014, 05:46 AM   #80 (permalink)
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This seems a good place to add this:

And acceptance is the answer to all my problems today. When I am disturbed, it is because I find some person, place, thing, or situation-some fact of my life -unacceptable to me, and I can find no serenity until I accept that person, place, thing, or situation as being exactly the way it is supposed to be at this moment. Nothing, absolutely nothing, happens in God's world by mistake.

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