What Addicts Do
Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: LONDON UK
Posts: 274
Well I have always considered myself to be an addict because I couldnt do without the pills i was prescribed or I would get really ill, and I enjoyed the buzz off them.I have never gotten into the state where ive stolen anything from anyone or done anything really awful to someone, and my partner didnt do that to me either...although ive unwittingly put him thru a bad time from ODing one time (by accident!) I have done silly stuff liked cycled miles and miles to get my D.O.C,but I dont THINK ive hurt anyone badly ....maybe you should ask him....Ive always been aware that addicts are regarded as the lowest of the low and made a concious effort to think of others and consider them carefully...This post has really made me think though about how I have behaved through the four years of my addiction...most people dont know that i had a problem with drugs,ive always hidden it from employers and friends, quite succesfully I THINK ?!
Good people DO do the things addicts do when they become addicts, come on. Most addicts started out good people,then they became good people with serious problems which affected their behavior very badly...then they are good people with bad problems. Many diseases that 'good' people get can affect the way a person acts, cancer,nervous conditions,mental illness...they can all drive a person crazy,as can addiction.
I dont know how you equate loving 'your addicts' (what an unpleasant turn of phrase,sounds like your dog or something) with having some thing wrong with you. as their partner, you are a victim of their disease,as they are, just as the partner of a person with alzheimers is, it is not your fault. Seems to me sometimes that everyone has to have a label!
It seems a really dangerous idea to me to consider a person with a severve drug problem not a person any more,just a drug....? maybe you didnt mean that...
To imply that people suffering with this disease are no longer people,just drugs, precipitates their brutalisation in society, as in doing so you strip them off the feelings and responses that make them human...I think this has already happened to a certain degree already.
Of course I understand that as someone who has been adversly affected by the behavior of an addict you may feel that you have been brutalised (as well you might) but this is not a reason to perpetuate such a retributionist school of thought, well I dont think so, hmm perhaps im biased!
What im being hugely long winded about saying is If you dont regard people as people (and not 'things,i.e a drug) then you have a carte blanche to treat them in whatever way you please, and if everyone thinks that, society will become a more brutal place.
May be you didnt quite mean it in that way,i dont know?
Jons post says that addicts are lying cheating manipulative low life basically! no mention of any relieving qualities that I noticed!
I am sorry for what your loved ones suffering from addiction have put you though.We really are not all the same, whatever our level of addiction, and many of us do recover.
Good people DO do the things addicts do when they become addicts, come on. Most addicts started out good people,then they became good people with serious problems which affected their behavior very badly...then they are good people with bad problems. Many diseases that 'good' people get can affect the way a person acts, cancer,nervous conditions,mental illness...they can all drive a person crazy,as can addiction.
I dont know how you equate loving 'your addicts' (what an unpleasant turn of phrase,sounds like your dog or something) with having some thing wrong with you. as their partner, you are a victim of their disease,as they are, just as the partner of a person with alzheimers is, it is not your fault. Seems to me sometimes that everyone has to have a label!
It seems a really dangerous idea to me to consider a person with a severve drug problem not a person any more,just a drug....? maybe you didnt mean that...
To imply that people suffering with this disease are no longer people,just drugs, precipitates their brutalisation in society, as in doing so you strip them off the feelings and responses that make them human...I think this has already happened to a certain degree already.
Of course I understand that as someone who has been adversly affected by the behavior of an addict you may feel that you have been brutalised (as well you might) but this is not a reason to perpetuate such a retributionist school of thought, well I dont think so, hmm perhaps im biased!
What im being hugely long winded about saying is If you dont regard people as people (and not 'things,i.e a drug) then you have a carte blanche to treat them in whatever way you please, and if everyone thinks that, society will become a more brutal place.
May be you didnt quite mean it in that way,i dont know?
Jons post says that addicts are lying cheating manipulative low life basically! no mention of any relieving qualities that I noticed!
I am sorry for what your loved ones suffering from addiction have put you though.We really are not all the same, whatever our level of addiction, and many of us do recover.
Laugh, Smile, & Be Happy
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 36
Clancy,
I'm going to throw in my 2 cents here.
I "like" to call my husband Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. Jekyll
(my husband) is loving, kind, caring, compassionate, funny, GREAT to our kids, essentially a wonderful man. Hyde :hairout (my crack addict husband) is a jerk. I don't like the person he is when he's using. He has stolen from me in the past (yes, Hyde has taken my debit card out of my purse without asking - Jekyll asks before even getting INTO my purse). He has disappeared for hours at a time with no explanation and then lied about where he was and what he was doing. He has stood me up on plans that we've made (yes, Jekyll bought concert tickets that he wanted to see and Hyde disappeared for the night at the last minute.. no warning, no explanation). I could go on but I think you get the picture.
Jon's post helps remind me that the man I don't like is not my husband. He's a crack addict doing and saying what he needs to do to support his habit. He has an addiction.. a disease.. that he can't control. Jon's post reminds me that I'm dealing with an "altered" person and not the man I love.
I showed Jon's post to my husband. He didn't like it either. But he's admitted that he's manipulative and a jerk. And if you asked my husband I think he'd admit the same to you... and so would a lot of the other addicts around here.
J
p.s. My HUSBAND is in recovery and doing well. Mr. Hyde has not been seen for a while and for that I am very grateful. Jon's post also reminds me that I know what Hyde looks like and I can tell when he's heading for relapse.
I'm going to throw in my 2 cents here.
I "like" to call my husband Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. Jekyll
(my husband) is loving, kind, caring, compassionate, funny, GREAT to our kids, essentially a wonderful man. Hyde :hairout (my crack addict husband) is a jerk. I don't like the person he is when he's using. He has stolen from me in the past (yes, Hyde has taken my debit card out of my purse without asking - Jekyll asks before even getting INTO my purse). He has disappeared for hours at a time with no explanation and then lied about where he was and what he was doing. He has stood me up on plans that we've made (yes, Jekyll bought concert tickets that he wanted to see and Hyde disappeared for the night at the last minute.. no warning, no explanation). I could go on but I think you get the picture.Jon's post helps remind me that the man I don't like is not my husband. He's a crack addict doing and saying what he needs to do to support his habit. He has an addiction.. a disease.. that he can't control. Jon's post reminds me that I'm dealing with an "altered" person and not the man I love.
I showed Jon's post to my husband. He didn't like it either. But he's admitted that he's manipulative and a jerk. And if you asked my husband I think he'd admit the same to you... and so would a lot of the other addicts around here.
J
p.s. My HUSBAND is in recovery and doing well. Mr. Hyde has not been seen for a while and for that I am very grateful. Jon's post also reminds me that I know what Hyde looks like and I can tell when he's heading for relapse.
Lord, get me through this!
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Chesterfield, Michigan
Posts: 4
Hope you don't mind a couple more cents?...........
Since he started using heroin, I honestly look at my son sometimes and say "Who are you??? And what did you do with my son??" This same child told me a year ago that he trusted me more than anyone in the world...even his friends. In the past 6 months, I can't count the times he's lied to me, stolen from me (and his friends), told me I'm stupid, called me a crazy b**ch, said he hates me...you name it.
I lost my best friend...and I miss him. Makes me want to deal with the idiot that started this whole mess in a vicious way. Fortunately, after I badgered the local police endlessly, they finally arrested the piece of crap and charged him with distributing to minors. At least I know he can't get to my son for the next 3 years or so...
Since he started using heroin, I honestly look at my son sometimes and say "Who are you??? And what did you do with my son??" This same child told me a year ago that he trusted me more than anyone in the world...even his friends. In the past 6 months, I can't count the times he's lied to me, stolen from me (and his friends), told me I'm stupid, called me a crazy b**ch, said he hates me...you name it.
I lost my best friend...and I miss him. Makes me want to deal with the idiot that started this whole mess in a vicious way. Fortunately, after I badgered the local police endlessly, they finally arrested the piece of crap and charged him with distributing to minors. At least I know he can't get to my son for the next 3 years or so...
Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Kelowna,Canada B.C.
Posts: 46
I did print out Jon's post and showed to my sons when they where in there addiction,they said,it's right on that post,that's who we are right now.
They are both clean now and they still read the post and say wow,but true!
Muf
They are both clean now and they still read the post and say wow,but true!
Muf
Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: LONDON UK
Posts: 274
Ive no doubt that you all have apalling relatives with addiction problems. The thing is nobody really bothers to mention the quiet ones who dont steal from lovedones purses or hold up stores, guess it just isnt news. But! WE are out here, we arent all manipultive horrors.
Nature Girl
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
Clancy
This thread is not to debate the goodness or badness of addicts, most of us recognize that even the worst addict has a good person inside.
It is one addicts' sharing of what he did, and it does represent what many do, even if you are not one of them. It is honest and powerful and has helped many here.
It was posted to help answer the questions "Why" that so many of us ask when questioning bad behaviour.
We know you are a good person, Clancy. Let's accept this thread for what it is, an honest attempt for an addict who behaved badly to explain how it was for him.
Peace.
Hugs
Ann
This thread is not to debate the goodness or badness of addicts, most of us recognize that even the worst addict has a good person inside.
It is one addicts' sharing of what he did, and it does represent what many do, even if you are not one of them. It is honest and powerful and has helped many here.
It was posted to help answer the questions "Why" that so many of us ask when questioning bad behaviour.
We know you are a good person, Clancy. Let's accept this thread for what it is, an honest attempt for an addict who behaved badly to explain how it was for him.
Peace.
Hugs
Ann
Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: LONDON UK
Posts: 274
OK, Ann fair enough. I did delete my posts when I saw the forum I was in but then someone replied before it was deleted, so I answered... Its just that I have had just a hard time trying to boost my self image and reassure myself that I am a good person and I have worked so hard on learning to love myself and others,that seeing this post,that to all intents and purposes seemed to be a inditment on every person who has this disease, really hurt me. I didnt understand that Jon was only speaking of himself,it wasnt really aparent.I still think it should be retitled 'what some addikts do'!!
Lord, get me through this!
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Chesterfield, Michigan
Posts: 4
Clancy,
You're absolutely right. It is what SOME addicts do. I guess most of us have been pretty sufficiently kicked around by our addict, and can relate to Jon's description first hand. I'll admit that I sometimes have difficulty realizing that it's the disease, not my son that is so cruel. I guess I thought when he saw the bags under my eyes and the weight I've lost, he'd realize that he's killing me. But to him, it's not being directed at anyone in particular. He just loves how heroin makes him feel, and nothing else matters. He thinks I should just kick him out at age 16 to live on the streets, so he can get high whenever he feels like it. Sheesh! It's like trying to reason with my dog....
You're absolutely right. It is what SOME addicts do. I guess most of us have been pretty sufficiently kicked around by our addict, and can relate to Jon's description first hand. I'll admit that I sometimes have difficulty realizing that it's the disease, not my son that is so cruel. I guess I thought when he saw the bags under my eyes and the weight I've lost, he'd realize that he's killing me. But to him, it's not being directed at anyone in particular. He just loves how heroin makes him feel, and nothing else matters. He thinks I should just kick him out at age 16 to live on the streets, so he can get high whenever he feels like it. Sheesh! It's like trying to reason with my dog....
Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: With Good Spirit
Posts: 378
My daughter IS an addict and I do not find that using the term disrepectful because I have learned to separate the disease from the person. Also and I "hope" this helps, when we talk about what addicts do, and we list the behaviors again..WE HATE the behaviors and WE HATE the disease, but we have a deep love for our wounded souls.
I for one along with others pray for them...ALL of them. I imagine a "face" to all of them. I think of them as breathing human beings that need help. AND also deserving of not being thrown away like trash. Because I can separate my daughter from the disease I don't at all feel bad when talking about the behaviors.
NO not all addicts do everything exactly alike..but this is a disease of progression. And what may not happen today...could happen tomorrow. I think it is healthy to be aware of what could happen, and educating ourselves is very wise for our recovery. AND this goes a long way in not being surprised as Jon says.
The reason I responded to this, is to let any addict out there know that we here DO indeed love our addicts...WE just hate the behaviors that come with addiction.
I hope this helps as it was intended too:>)
God BLess everyone..
Hopefloats
I for one along with others pray for them...ALL of them. I imagine a "face" to all of them. I think of them as breathing human beings that need help. AND also deserving of not being thrown away like trash. Because I can separate my daughter from the disease I don't at all feel bad when talking about the behaviors.
NO not all addicts do everything exactly alike..but this is a disease of progression. And what may not happen today...could happen tomorrow. I think it is healthy to be aware of what could happen, and educating ourselves is very wise for our recovery. AND this goes a long way in not being surprised as Jon says.
The reason I responded to this, is to let any addict out there know that we here DO indeed love our addicts...WE just hate the behaviors that come with addiction.
I hope this helps as it was intended too:>)
God BLess everyone..
Hopefloats
But Very, Very Bruisable...
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Palm Springs, Ca.
Posts: 548
It's not that often that a spouse/boyfriend/girlfriend/significant other comes crawling into the rooms of al-anon or nar-anon because their other half was "mildly" addicted. And while the facts/stats completely support Clancy's experience with addiction, those stories aren't the ones that get posted on anonymous message boards at 3 in the morning while a partner is praying their mate will come home. With the car. Because he/she is the only one working right now. And the babies...well.
Unfortunately, we mostly hear and see and feel the drama here. Whats worse is the one's who "got better", and never did say goodbye...I used to say it over and over until I got tired of saying it...if you show up hurting and learn or laugh or cope just a little better than before you got here, it's your obligation to be here when the next busload arrives.
And we are people first. Flesh and blood and sweat and tears and hopes and dreams and fears. Before we are addicts...codies...overeaters...gamblers...alcohol ics...we are human beings.
All the more reason to hug each other a little harder.
If nothing else...nothing else at all...we don't shoot our wounded around here...like 'em or not, agree with them or not...being human first, we need to take care of each other. When a sick alkie gets a job and maybe a car, a codie can be happy with or without the drama, a gambler has a savings account..fine. Let them be. But if their still sick, if we've been so damn blessed to have gotten a little better, we must be of service.
Because that's what human beings do...
Unfortunately, we mostly hear and see and feel the drama here. Whats worse is the one's who "got better", and never did say goodbye...I used to say it over and over until I got tired of saying it...if you show up hurting and learn or laugh or cope just a little better than before you got here, it's your obligation to be here when the next busload arrives.
And we are people first. Flesh and blood and sweat and tears and hopes and dreams and fears. Before we are addicts...codies...overeaters...gamblers...alcohol ics...we are human beings.
All the more reason to hug each other a little harder.
If nothing else...nothing else at all...we don't shoot our wounded around here...like 'em or not, agree with them or not...being human first, we need to take care of each other. When a sick alkie gets a job and maybe a car, a codie can be happy with or without the drama, a gambler has a savings account..fine. Let them be. But if their still sick, if we've been so damn blessed to have gotten a little better, we must be of service.
Because that's what human beings do...
To Life!
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 9,293
Clancy;
"Ive no doubt that you all have apalling relatives with addiction problems."
No, Clancy; Please understand the difference....
We have relatives with appalling addiction problems!
There is no "blame and shame" here. There is love and fear.
Fear, often displayed as anger, hate, depression, anxiety...
but fear, none the less.
Jon's point about the postings at 3AM are valid. We are awake at the "witching hour" because of that fear...and so we post...looking for answers....looking for peace...
Jon;
"Because that's what human beings do... "
Isn't it, though?
L'Chaim!
"Ive no doubt that you all have apalling relatives with addiction problems."
No, Clancy; Please understand the difference....
We have relatives with appalling addiction problems!
There is no "blame and shame" here. There is love and fear.
Fear, often displayed as anger, hate, depression, anxiety...
but fear, none the less.
Jon's point about the postings at 3AM are valid. We are awake at the "witching hour" because of that fear...and so we post...looking for answers....looking for peace...
Jon;
"Because that's what human beings do... "
Isn't it, though?
L'Chaim!
Lord, get me through this!
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Chesterfield, Michigan
Posts: 4
Jon,
Your words are so very true...and so kind. I love my son more than I think he'll ever know. I've tried to explain to him that if I didn't love him so desperately, none of this would bother me. And teach: what you said about fear really hits the mark. It's utter terror. We all want our "problem children" to see how destructive they've become not only to themselves, but to the ones who love them the very most.
I have to say, since I've been coming to this site, I've felt more at peace with this mess than I have in 6 months. A couple weeks ago, I really wasn't sure if I'd make it through this...or whether I wanted to for that matter. Thank you for helping me pick myself up, dust myself off and face another day.
Your words are so very true...and so kind. I love my son more than I think he'll ever know. I've tried to explain to him that if I didn't love him so desperately, none of this would bother me. And teach: what you said about fear really hits the mark. It's utter terror. We all want our "problem children" to see how destructive they've become not only to themselves, but to the ones who love them the very most.
I have to say, since I've been coming to this site, I've felt more at peace with this mess than I have in 6 months. A couple weeks ago, I really wasn't sure if I'd make it through this...or whether I wanted to for that matter. Thank you for helping me pick myself up, dust myself off and face another day.
Jeri N
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Abita Springs, LA
Posts: 24
Hi all,
I've been reading these posts with tears streaming down my face. I appreciate Jon's post so much and I appreciate Ann re-posting it. I need to know that I am not crazy. I need to hear that I am not alone. I need to share my wounded heart with others who understand. I have spent the last 19 years "waiting" for my AH to get and stay sober. I relapsed 5 years ago after the birth of our 2nd daughter because I didn't want to "live without him". I was blessed to have another chance and picked up my 5 year chip with my sponsor by my side on 12/14. At the time we had already been separated (for the 3rd time) for 3 months. It is now almost 4 months and there has been no change. My M-I-L is still enabling him and the holidays were awful. Someone mentioned all that I have compromised in their post. Stability, security, love, friends, jobs, homes and on and on. My heart breaks daily for our family and for my AH, but when is enough enough? I know God has a plan for me and our girls. I have to stop "NOT LIVING". I go from numbness to wrenching pain. I go for days at a time without putting on makeup because I just cry it off. Several days after Christmas I read Addiction, Lies and Relationships on one of the message boards. Just like Jon's post it brought more reality to the sickness that has so long engulfed the "good" in my husband. I was the one who always "sees the good in everyone" and almost always gave the person who hurt me the "benefit of the doubt". I realize now that the "doubt" was the "disease" progressing and gradually sucking the life out of my AH, me and my children. I have to let go. I don't want to, it doesn't make me "feel" good, I Love him, my children love him, our church family loves him, but love will never be enough. The addiction has proved to be more powerful, more able to change, devour and rob my AH and my family of the "good" that was once there. I thank you all for your honesty and your willingness to share your hearts. And yes, Tim, my AH would fit this description completely now. I need to hear others triumphs and their sorrows so that I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that some of us make it in recovery and also that there are those who share in my person. Today I want to be sober. Today I don't want to live in the chaos. And though, many of my nights are sleepless you all and God help me find something "good" in my life each day. I don't know any of you, but i KNOW you.
I've been reading these posts with tears streaming down my face. I appreciate Jon's post so much and I appreciate Ann re-posting it. I need to know that I am not crazy. I need to hear that I am not alone. I need to share my wounded heart with others who understand. I have spent the last 19 years "waiting" for my AH to get and stay sober. I relapsed 5 years ago after the birth of our 2nd daughter because I didn't want to "live without him". I was blessed to have another chance and picked up my 5 year chip with my sponsor by my side on 12/14. At the time we had already been separated (for the 3rd time) for 3 months. It is now almost 4 months and there has been no change. My M-I-L is still enabling him and the holidays were awful. Someone mentioned all that I have compromised in their post. Stability, security, love, friends, jobs, homes and on and on. My heart breaks daily for our family and for my AH, but when is enough enough? I know God has a plan for me and our girls. I have to stop "NOT LIVING". I go from numbness to wrenching pain. I go for days at a time without putting on makeup because I just cry it off. Several days after Christmas I read Addiction, Lies and Relationships on one of the message boards. Just like Jon's post it brought more reality to the sickness that has so long engulfed the "good" in my husband. I was the one who always "sees the good in everyone" and almost always gave the person who hurt me the "benefit of the doubt". I realize now that the "doubt" was the "disease" progressing and gradually sucking the life out of my AH, me and my children. I have to let go. I don't want to, it doesn't make me "feel" good, I Love him, my children love him, our church family loves him, but love will never be enough. The addiction has proved to be more powerful, more able to change, devour and rob my AH and my family of the "good" that was once there. I thank you all for your honesty and your willingness to share your hearts. And yes, Tim, my AH would fit this description completely now. I need to hear others triumphs and their sorrows so that I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that some of us make it in recovery and also that there are those who share in my person. Today I want to be sober. Today I don't want to live in the chaos. And though, many of my nights are sleepless you all and God help me find something "good" in my life each day. I don't know any of you, but i KNOW you.
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