Authenticity V
Adventures In SpaceTime
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After some deeper thought, I'm thinking denial is inherently a more conscious action taken ie suppression than the alternative process ie remission. I think a conscious effort is more effective in relieving trauma and anxiety from whatever source than what can be managed unconsciously. In other words, the unconscious process is inferior to the conscious effort in processing trauma, is my opinion.
Since I myself have not struggled with denial with respect to my prognosis, apparently I have an informed opinion of my experience with receiving lethal prognosis. I'm not surprised I'm not in denial. Although cancer is the latest addition to my plate, I already (had) have plenty to deal with, yeah?
From my perspective, I'm of a mind to believe denial is not a simplistic unconscious action, but rather a series of conscious choices which are dynamically relevant to a persons psyche. For myself, I can clearly see opportunities for denial, even to the extreme of myself denying I have a conscious choice. These opportunities of denial are conditional and not without cost to my honest awareness of "self" if I employed such opportunities.
Denial for me doesn't have an upside. I can speak to when I used denial I also used alcohol and drugs. I had to be drunk to be in denial, which is different than stating I was drunk because I was in denial.
More in a bit...
Since I myself have not struggled with denial with respect to my prognosis, apparently I have an informed opinion of my experience with receiving lethal prognosis. I'm not surprised I'm not in denial. Although cancer is the latest addition to my plate, I already (had) have plenty to deal with, yeah?
From my perspective, I'm of a mind to believe denial is not a simplistic unconscious action, but rather a series of conscious choices which are dynamically relevant to a persons psyche. For myself, I can clearly see opportunities for denial, even to the extreme of myself denying I have a conscious choice. These opportunities of denial are conditional and not without cost to my honest awareness of "self" if I employed such opportunities.
Denial for me doesn't have an upside. I can speak to when I used denial I also used alcohol and drugs. I had to be drunk to be in denial, which is different than stating I was drunk because I was in denial.
More in a bit...
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Originally Posted by EndGameNYC 
In further response to Haennie, I wanted to say to her that there seems to be a level of projecting in your analysis that overreaches my actual experience which, in turn, seems to have brought about a superficial confrontation on a seemingly theoretical level. And I'm uncomfortable with that, even though I see my part in it.
Adventures In SpaceTime
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Originally Posted by ArtFriend
I will start by saying "how many angels dance on the head of a pin?" Or in other words, scholasticism. I don't want to have this thread become a sparring match between intellectuals who exclude others who might benefit. I also hide behind my intellectual pursuits and it is a very lonely place. So, please become "authentic" in the truest sense of the term.
Many contributors to our thread have thanked me for the thread being safe. It is safe, and will continue to be safe. It's also a thread that enjoys intellectual discussions which may appear to be at odds with the posters opinions. I don't see this happening here either as yet anyways.
I want you to know ArtFriend your opinion is as important as mine and as any other poster to these threads. Its worthwhile to have informative discussions even when we don't achieve universal agreement. It's okay to have a different opinion, experience, and perspective.
As for being authentic, I heartily agree we do best when we can satisfy our own levels of authenticity.
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For what it's worth I agree with Robby...safe thread, great discussions, many epiphanies here for me
I really haven't seen any exclusioning here...but I also know from my experience it's easy to feel excluded ...
we should all be mindful of that, too.
D
I really haven't seen any exclusioning here...but I also know from my experience it's easy to feel excluded ...
we should all be mindful of that, too
. D
Adventures In SpaceTime
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Originally Posted by haennie
Yep, and I think we'll need to resolve this 1:1. Sorry everyone else, I guess these things happen when we interact a lot.
Adventures In SpaceTime
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Originally Posted by EndGameNYC
That's okay, Robby.
There are mitigating factors involved in each type of psychological defense, and they often do not work as completely as they might. And sometimes they "go too far." The more we rely on ego defenses in life to get through our difficulties, the more likely they are to grow stronger and to be our first line of defense. And so on...
In retrospect, I'd rather not get into a discussion on this as my OP on the subject was much more about a personal, emotional interaction than it was a theoretical discussion of defense mechanisms. By definition, we cannot fully know to what extent our defense mechanisms are in play, no matter how insightful we may see ourselves. If I were to continue on this line of reasoning, based on Freudian theory and my interpretation of that theory, I'd need to make comments that some people would likely experience as disturbing (or am I just repressing/projecting/denying here?
).
There are mitigating factors involved in each type of psychological defense, and they often do not work as completely as they might. And sometimes they "go too far." The more we rely on ego defenses in life to get through our difficulties, the more likely they are to grow stronger and to be our first line of defense. And so on...
In retrospect, I'd rather not get into a discussion on this as my OP on the subject was much more about a personal, emotional interaction than it was a theoretical discussion of defense mechanisms. By definition, we cannot fully know to what extent our defense mechanisms are in play, no matter how insightful we may see ourselves. If I were to continue on this line of reasoning, based on Freudian theory and my interpretation of that theory, I'd need to make comments that some people would likely experience as disturbing (or am I just repressing/projecting/denying here?
). Speaking for myself, I look somewhat forward to disturbing conversations, lol. How does that speak to my inner Robby?!!
No worries here, my friend. I understand your OP was shared as a personal experience. I respect your sharing and I respect you too, as you know.
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Good evening.
Catching up. This morning didn't give me the time to extend some hugs, to reflect.
Fini: I wanted to let you know how much I respect you for the process you went through with your former husband. Amends were the topic of frank discussion not long ago here, including my own addition, the core of which goes to the heart of why I admire your courage and integrity. About your ex-husband's response: It's always difficult when we don't know people IRL to fully understand another person's situation. Still, I cannot help but think that he may have felt your amends more deeply than you know, perhaps on a level that is simply different. And that you offered him a gift with your apology. It was nice to read about the impact it has had on you.
Della: Hugs, friend. It's all right to be quiet here. I am, from time to time. Hopefully, the medication will prove a helpful part of your recovery.
Brynn & AF: I'm sorry this is a painful time for both of you. Draw strength from sobriety.
EndGame: Honestly? I don't know if there was a right or wrong way for your sister to handle her disclosures, nor do I get the impression that it is eating at you, though I may be wrong. In an earlier post, you said something that has become important to me. "I just wanted to stay home and sleep and have my stunt double take care of my responsibilities. But I'm not an actor, and I don't have a stunt double." Sometimes, I think we are our own stunt doubles. Does that make sense? In some respects, I think that can be good -- calling upon our reserves, as you called it. But it also reminded me of the shell that I erected around myself after Dad died, 9.5 months into sobriety, and my concern that the shell -- the stunt double -- has overtaken me. More on that in a moment.
Verte & Courage: I'm from the Midwest. We don't have accents, right?
About Viktor Frankl's "Man's Search For Meaning": Some years back -- before things got bad as in why-I'm-on-SR bad -- I was treated by a psychiatrist, a good one, for depression. He recommended I read Frankl. I did and we had helpful conversations about it; I recommend it highly. But that is a memory tinged heavily -- so heavily -- with regret because I came to a critical juncture. The anti-depressants he prescribed worked; I felt better and left therapy. Mistake. Not long thereafter, my employer was in dire straits due to funding cuts and my colleagues and I were laid off, requiring me to relocate, again, although I've always been glad I moved to the place I now live. When I got here, though, I knew no one, had taken a job that was unfulfilling, began self-medicating more and more -- the sheer lunacy of "treating" depression with a depressant -- and the line was crossed. I struggle with that decision.
Haennie: You wrote, "Finally, I agree with EndGame's notion that these threads, our connections here, and these discussions trigger/create changes in many of us who participate regularly. It would actually be interesting once to discuss how we all subjectively experience the effect, maybe at some later point?"
Yes. The other night, I was talking on the phone with a friend in recovery, one I trust wholly, and reflected on how different I am as the second anniversary of sobriety approaches. Different than when the first year approached. Light years away from life pre-sobriety. I cannot fully articulate it; I do believe this thread has played a role (not the sole one, though). For that, I am grateful to Rob and Melissa, Dee and every one here.
Somehow, I feel both inside me and around me -- a point that itself is difficult to describe and I fear I'm doing so inarticulately again -- that the shell has begun cracking. The stunt double seems to be receding. It is not that the stunt double's work is done, just not needed at the time. It may be -- it probably will be -- at some point. What I feel emerging, however, is not an actor.
It is me.
This is both exhilarating and intimidating.
Catching up. This morning didn't give me the time to extend some hugs, to reflect.
Fini: I wanted to let you know how much I respect you for the process you went through with your former husband. Amends were the topic of frank discussion not long ago here, including my own addition, the core of which goes to the heart of why I admire your courage and integrity. About your ex-husband's response: It's always difficult when we don't know people IRL to fully understand another person's situation. Still, I cannot help but think that he may have felt your amends more deeply than you know, perhaps on a level that is simply different. And that you offered him a gift with your apology. It was nice to read about the impact it has had on you.
Della: Hugs, friend. It's all right to be quiet here. I am, from time to time. Hopefully, the medication will prove a helpful part of your recovery.
Brynn & AF: I'm sorry this is a painful time for both of you. Draw strength from sobriety.
EndGame: Honestly? I don't know if there was a right or wrong way for your sister to handle her disclosures, nor do I get the impression that it is eating at you, though I may be wrong. In an earlier post, you said something that has become important to me. "I just wanted to stay home and sleep and have my stunt double take care of my responsibilities. But I'm not an actor, and I don't have a stunt double." Sometimes, I think we are our own stunt doubles. Does that make sense? In some respects, I think that can be good -- calling upon our reserves, as you called it. But it also reminded me of the shell that I erected around myself after Dad died, 9.5 months into sobriety, and my concern that the shell -- the stunt double -- has overtaken me. More on that in a moment.
Verte & Courage: I'm from the Midwest. We don't have accents, right?
About Viktor Frankl's "Man's Search For Meaning": Some years back -- before things got bad as in why-I'm-on-SR bad -- I was treated by a psychiatrist, a good one, for depression. He recommended I read Frankl. I did and we had helpful conversations about it; I recommend it highly. But that is a memory tinged heavily -- so heavily -- with regret because I came to a critical juncture. The anti-depressants he prescribed worked; I felt better and left therapy. Mistake. Not long thereafter, my employer was in dire straits due to funding cuts and my colleagues and I were laid off, requiring me to relocate, again, although I've always been glad I moved to the place I now live. When I got here, though, I knew no one, had taken a job that was unfulfilling, began self-medicating more and more -- the sheer lunacy of "treating" depression with a depressant -- and the line was crossed. I struggle with that decision.
Haennie: You wrote, "Finally, I agree with EndGame's notion that these threads, our connections here, and these discussions trigger/create changes in many of us who participate regularly. It would actually be interesting once to discuss how we all subjectively experience the effect, maybe at some later point?"
Yes. The other night, I was talking on the phone with a friend in recovery, one I trust wholly, and reflected on how different I am as the second anniversary of sobriety approaches. Different than when the first year approached. Light years away from life pre-sobriety. I cannot fully articulate it; I do believe this thread has played a role (not the sole one, though). For that, I am grateful to Rob and Melissa, Dee and every one here.
Somehow, I feel both inside me and around me -- a point that itself is difficult to describe and I fear I'm doing so inarticulately again -- that the shell has begun cracking. The stunt double seems to be receding. It is not that the stunt double's work is done, just not needed at the time. It may be -- it probably will be -- at some point. What I feel emerging, however, is not an actor.
It is me.
This is both exhilarating and intimidating.
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Originally Posted by Venecia
Somehow, I feel both inside me and around me -- a point that itself is difficult to describe and I fear I'm doing so inarticulately again -- that the shell has begun cracking. The stunt double seems to be receding. It is not that the stunt double's work is done, just not needed at the time. It may be -- it probably will be -- at some point. What I feel emerging, however, is not an actor.
It is me.
This is both exhilarating and intimidating.
It is me.
This is both exhilarating and intimidating.
I'm aware that I'm scrabbling around in the dark a little here. As real feelings emerge, I find myself inadvertently slipping back into old habits of covering them over...using chocolate, shopping for new clothes, losing myself in work....anything to change the way I'm feeling. But I'm aware of what I'm doing now and I stop myself. when I'm down I'm down...and...it's ok. The next day may be better, who knows?
When I'm happy, I close my eyes and let it sink in. I let it wash right over me. I look around and notice the way things are, and try and create a snapshot in my mind of what it looks and feels like.
When I'm sad, I do almost the same thing except I no longer get lost in it. Life is tough sometimes, but I have so much to be very grateful for.
I'm strong. I'm vulnerable. I'm wise. I have so much to learn. I love and I allow myself to be loved.
And that's a far cry from where I was even 6 months ago.
Have a great Sunday my dear friends ❤️ Xxx
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Hi...sorry about last night. I was very emotional yesterday after hearing the news of my SIL. I was reading the dense thread between Haennie and EndGame and I got angry. But, I am OK now. I was just thinking about how many people on this thread either are facing sickness themselves, or have a close loved one who is facing it. And that will bring out all kinds of emotions. We all handle things differently, esp issues surrounding life and death. I know when my mother was dying, I spent hours on the internet trying to understand every aspect of her illness, as if by magic that would change things. It was my form of trying to control something I could not. EndGame and Haennie also have people close to them who are dying. And I felt that the real issue (pain) was being buried in (forgive the term) psychobabble. I speaking strictly about the way I perceived this last night. This is about sharing feelings (and thoughts) here and I felt like that was all about head stuff. I love discussing psychology (my major in college) and philosophy...don't get me wrong. I guess it was more about the way I was feeling last night. I really wanted to say that we are all in varying degrees of pain, lets try to understand and support one another and not quibble over matters like "how many angels dance on the head of a pin".
Adventures In SpaceTime
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Morning and evening all y'all
Its exciting to have so many powerful and introspective shares in one thread. I'm appreciative of our differing personalities and how we yet still manage to so richly feel kinship and fellowship albeit we have such divergent walks of life.
For myself today I'm realizing my usual perspectives of people, places, and things is in a great flux of deep change and renewal. It is with some reluctance I'm becoming mindful of my new awareness that how I had seen the future for myself in decades of time is now shortened to months and hopefully a year or two of time. Hmmm. I think the discussions on denial and so on was helpful for me to realize I'm in better shape with myself with respect to my mortality than I had earlier appreciated.
I'm also realizing I haven't as yet fully articulated how deeply I'm feeling about my shortened time. I suppose much of this will be realized in my writings as my book becomes more substantial and of importance to myself. I can see how these threads and my book have such an important kind of loving association. I'm very appreciative of the contributions of others. I'm so very happy I'm not alone.
Its exciting to have so many powerful and introspective shares in one thread. I'm appreciative of our differing personalities and how we yet still manage to so richly feel kinship and fellowship albeit we have such divergent walks of life.
For myself today I'm realizing my usual perspectives of people, places, and things is in a great flux of deep change and renewal. It is with some reluctance I'm becoming mindful of my new awareness that how I had seen the future for myself in decades of time is now shortened to months and hopefully a year or two of time. Hmmm. I think the discussions on denial and so on was helpful for me to realize I'm in better shape with myself with respect to my mortality than I had earlier appreciated.
I'm also realizing I haven't as yet fully articulated how deeply I'm feeling about my shortened time. I suppose much of this will be realized in my writings as my book becomes more substantial and of importance to myself. I can see how these threads and my book have such an important kind of loving association. I'm very appreciative of the contributions of others. I'm so very happy I'm not alone.
Adventures In SpaceTime
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Just want to say thank you to Venecia and Jeni for sharing such inspirational introspections. Very appropriate for me and my own challenges at hand.
And thank you to ArtFriend for sharing her appreciation of these threads being more about ourselves and our life experiences than about theoretical discussions. I'm all for discussions goes without saying ( )and yet it is really in the simple sharing of ourselves with each other which really satisfies me and invites me to continue to share my experiences with others in these threads.
And thank you to ArtFriend for sharing her appreciation of these threads being more about ourselves and our life experiences than about theoretical discussions. I'm all for discussions goes without saying (
)and yet it is really in the simple sharing of ourselves with each other which really satisfies me and invites me to continue to share my experiences with others in these threads.
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Rob - I didn't realize you are writing a book! Me too! Sorry if you mentioned this before and I missed it. You are a very good writer and have a great command of language. Cool beans! When can we get a signed copy? 
Adventures In SpaceTime
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Yeah! And you too!! Awesome!
Of course, it's easier said than done, lol. Writing it is one thing. Writing it well yet another. And writing it for publication is yet still another serious consideration. I'm thinking bestseller, yeah?!! Hey, better to shoot for the stars and fail than to not have tried at all.
Signed copies? Now there is some well said inspiration for the both of us!!
Of course, it's easier said than done, lol. Writing it is one thing. Writing it well yet another. And writing it for publication is yet still another serious consideration. I'm thinking bestseller, yeah?!! Hey, better to shoot for the stars and fail than to not have tried at all.
Signed copies? Now there is some well said inspiration for the both of us!!
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Hi everyone.
I also would like to apologize about the posts and my attitude yesterday. But AF, I don't think you need to, at least imo you were right, I do think we need to be considerate of the diverse membership on this board in our communications, even if some of us are interested in certain specific disciplines and ways of looking at things. We could all start talking in our professional languages, and then would not understand each-other, or maybe only specific subgroups of people could participate, and others would feel intimidated. Like Robby, I also typically look forward to and, dare to say, enjoy disturbing topics and discussions, but definitely not everyone is that way so I am telling myself it's best with moderation. I will also try to remember not to attempt to analyze people here in ways that go beyond what's appropriate in the context of both the personal shares and the nature of the forum.
I don't want to make a long post about this now and will just say that I am not going to continue that discussion here mostly because I think it was indeed heavily loaded with stuff that is far too personal and specific for this thread; EndGame and I can deal with it privately if we want to.
Anyhow, I want to thank you AF for pointing out something that was valid and imo a good idea to settle once publicly, even if the underlying motives are related to our personal struggles and pain. I personally do need to remember not to overanalyze people and things, I've been told this in my whole life, and I do appreciate the reminders. And yeah I was also overly emotional yesterday and showed a very good example of how I tend to deal with it in immature ways
Sorry guys and gals, again.
I also would like to apologize about the posts and my attitude yesterday. But AF, I don't think you need to, at least imo you were right, I do think we need to be considerate of the diverse membership on this board in our communications, even if some of us are interested in certain specific disciplines and ways of looking at things. We could all start talking in our professional languages, and then would not understand each-other, or maybe only specific subgroups of people could participate, and others would feel intimidated. Like Robby, I also typically look forward to and, dare to say, enjoy disturbing topics and discussions, but definitely not everyone is that way so I am telling myself it's best with moderation
. I will also try to remember not to attempt to analyze people here in ways that go beyond what's appropriate in the context of both the personal shares and the nature of the forum. I don't want to make a long post about this now and will just say that I am not going to continue that discussion here mostly because I think it was indeed heavily loaded with stuff that is far too personal and specific for this thread; EndGame and I can deal with it privately if we want to.
Anyhow, I want to thank you AF for pointing out something that was valid and imo a good idea to settle once publicly, even if the underlying motives are related to our personal struggles and pain. I personally do need to remember not to overanalyze people and things, I've been told this in my whole life, and I do appreciate the reminders. And yeah I was also overly emotional yesterday and showed a very good example of how I tend to deal with it in immature ways
Sorry guys and gals, again.
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I was collaborating on a book with my sister. Her story is so compelling that we thought it would make a great book. Not sure if I have mentioned it here, but my sister became schizophrenic in her late 20s. That is a very late onset for the disease which usually shows up in late teens early 20s. She was a practicing psychologist when it hit. She struggled, but eventually she had to quit her job. Started using drugs to self-medicate, became homeless and went missing for over a year. She resurfaced in Seattle. She had hitch hiked and wandered all over the country. It was amazing she wasn't killed. She slept in shelters, parks, in truckers cabs. She told the whole story to me. Amazing. She was sleeping on a bench in Seattle when a social worker found her. She got my sister into the hospital (where she learned of her AIDS) and found her a group home to stay in. She got stabilized and was managing her illnesses. But after a few years, she got restless. She contacted a colleague she worked with in Michigan about doing some work for him. He had relocated to NY. She had flown from Seattle to NY for an interview and was killed in the 9/11 attacks. We had some of the book done when she was killed. I stopped working on it and picked up the bottle. I recently started to go through the notes and what we had written. I want to really finish it now and donate any proceeds to NAMI (the National Associated for the Mentally Ill). Our mental health system in the US really needs help. But that is for another post
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