Authenticity III
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,428
Originally Posted by RobbyRobot 
Yeah, in my mind, the pool is awesome. I'm still in the hospital as yet though. I was just daydreaming. 
Hope to be pool side in a few weeks. It's unusually warm for Ottawa right now and it just brought back some seriously fun times of years gone by.
Hope to be pool side in a few weeks. It's unusually warm for Ottawa right now and it just brought back some seriously fun times of years gone by. Sorry I missed that.
However, the "romance thing" sounds even better. . .
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
Originally Posted by RobbyRobot
Hi (((haennie)))
I'm happy you want to continue and respond from the earlier thread, my friend. Weather was just some early morning pleasantries.
I'm happy you want to continue and respond from the earlier thread, my friend. Weather was just some early morning pleasantries.
So what I meant about the grace is the way you seem to handle and process your current situation based on what we see from it here. And the respect you have shown to people here in your communications since I first started reading your posts. I see that everywhere on this forum. The way you describe your parents, it sounds like they are people who do not appreciate your attitude and who you are the way we do here. Probably a different level of awareness in part, and certainly a different level of personal development. Definitely not everyone (perhaps not even very many people) are able to comprehend that dying does not have to focus on misery and cause the collapse of the individual's dignity and the world around him, but can also be the "celebration" of a life well lived. I guess probably some of your doctors did not find you very graceful though when you challenged their knowledge and methods
And yes, of course it would be best if we all had nurturing parents and wonderful families. The stuff about the dysfunctional family members being "OK" was referring to my own experience... I just accepted them being that way, but with some, it was a very difficult and long process to get to a stage that I can say this. This refers mostly to my mother, whose dysfunctional "nurturing" and expression of love contributed to psychological problems that actually threatened my life also when I was young, and then she did nothing to help me resolve it. Of course she never meant to have that effect and was probably totally unaware of it in her whole life.
Like you, I have also avoided my family members (except my dad) as much as I could. I was also not chasing them for love or tried to provoke their attention in any way -- quite the opposite. What I meant by all this finally turning out well is that I did not become like these relatives and the independence I developed very early is something I have always cherished. But of course there is no way of knowing how everything would be had most of my family been a loving, successful bunch of people with high integrity. Maybe I would have lived a very different life, for example, not moving away and globetrotting the way I do.
I also totally get what you are saying about not desiring their love. I desire the company of people who actually know how to relate to someone else and can form healthy attachments. Sadly, there are many people though who keep chasing childhood abuse and dysfunction in their whole life. This is another reason why I say I am fine with things as they are for me.
I think that you absolutely have no obligation to satisfy your relatives any craving at the price of giving up being true to yourself, and I think it's a very healthy attitude.
Hi haennie. Well, if you ask them if I have grace they would look at you like you have two heads, lol. Seriously. We are talking major dysfunction between my family and myself. I'm always hesitant to make generalizations or even comparisons. I do know I'm even more authentic with them now then the last few decades, as an example when I sobered up in 1981, and they are finding no joy whatsoever in me being me. In fact, they are angry with me that I won't show my real "feelings on dying." You see, they would be more comfortable if I was more screwed up by my cancer than they are. The thing is, I'm not.
They just to grasp how I'm not in misery, okay? And so when they try to express their misery at my not being miserable, we totally clash big time.
I want to say haennie, I would much rather have been brought up by nurturing parents in a healthy family then in the dysfunctional nightmare that defined my growing up. I'm not sure what you mean by it's okay even if the family was dysfunctional? Did I misunderstand? No worries if I did or didn't. I do know, they will never be satisfied that they are more miserable than I am, and they always have been. This cancer at my last days kind of thing is really just bringing it all home, taking the layers off, and showing my family just how dysfunctional they really are in their relationships.
For me, its same old same old. They are convinced THEIR love for me is what I desire. They couldn't be more wrong.
Sorry if that may sound harsh. They certainly think so. Please understand I don't go around chasing them down for love. I do try to avoid them. I don't do "family" with them, and haven't for decades now. Sure, I love them. I love them with agape love. And for them, that works well for me. For them, not so much.
They just to grasp how I'm not in misery, okay? And so when they try to express their misery at my not being miserable, we totally clash big time.
I want to say haennie, I would much rather have been brought up by nurturing parents in a healthy family then in the dysfunctional nightmare that defined my growing up. I'm not sure what you mean by it's okay even if the family was dysfunctional? Did I misunderstand? No worries if I did or didn't. I do know, they will never be satisfied that they are more miserable than I am, and they always have been. This cancer at my last days kind of thing is really just bringing it all home, taking the layers off, and showing my family just how dysfunctional they really are in their relationships.
For me, its same old same old. They are convinced THEIR love for me is what I desire. They couldn't be more wrong.
Sorry if that may sound harsh. They certainly think so. Please understand I don't go around chasing them down for love. I do try to avoid them. I don't do "family" with them, and haven't for decades now. Sure, I love them. I love them with agape love. And for them, that works well for me. For them, not so much.
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Join Date: Nov 2012
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Hi Robby -- weird day here -- I apparently spent the night being pinched by demons, yelping howling & cursing at unseen forces. So I'm pretty achey today. And I've had a positive flurry of communications from the less functional ends of my bloodline & past life, which always take a while to settle into sense in my head. In short, not quite overwhelmed here but looking forward to some rest soon.
Enough about me -- my plights & gripes. How has your day been? Do you have nice or nasty nurses? I hope nice.
Enough about me -- my plights & gripes. How has your day been? Do you have nice or nasty nurses? I hope nice.
Adventures In SpaceTime
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Hi haennie.
The conversation is difficult, nonetheless it is my experience I have survived "growing up" in a dysfunctional family which equated "love" with chronic mental, emotional, physical, and sexual abuse hidden away in the family closet. Out of sight out of mind. For me, my parents "philosophy of life" was to encourage and enable myself and my siblings to "love and protect" at all costs our parents. You know, when the abused allow the abuse in the name of love, always hoping for real love to manifest. Of course, it never does.
I'm not going to go into details. Its not the details which are important in this thread. What is important is my parents didn't struggle with being parents. I don't think they ever really assumed such responsibility. I think they did struggle with guilt, remorse, regret, and self-hatred, which they projected onto their children.
They saw me as not being in the fold, if you will. They also saw me as being aware of what was going on. I partially remember an incident when children's services were investigating what was later officially rendered as "rumour and suspicion." A policeman was in the front hall asking questions. I spoke up. I was like 7 or 8 years old. When the officer left, I was slapped in the face for "telling stories." Of course, this was back in the mid 60's. Child and family abuse had an entirely different legal and social understanding. Back then, parents ruled.
So, its not that they didn't appreciate my attitude, lol, they didn't appreciate my not loving them back as they had so earnestly taught me. I really can't be more clear. I have many experiences which will never be shared. Ever. What would be the point?
haennie, you and I share a valued friendship, which we are both grateful for goes without saying. We nourish it, we put it into action, we take joy and responsibility for having such a friendship.
As for my parents, its not like they tried and failed loving me. They were already all set with themselves before I was born. In their eyes they were quite successful. In my eyes they failed to raise the son they desired. In their eyes, I simply won't fall into my place with a smile on my face. In my eyes, I did my best to stop their abuse of me all prettily wrapped up in what they sold as "family love."
I wasn't entirely successful. And yet, successful enough to know I am responsible for my own thoughts, feelings, and actions. My past circumstances do not offer me a pass. It's not about fault. It's about responsibility. It was always about responsibility.
I'm okay with these discussions. I haven't been their "son" for many decades now. Thanks for continuing this haennie. My experiences are mine to own.
No worries.
The conversation is difficult, nonetheless it is my experience I have survived "growing up" in a dysfunctional family which equated "love" with chronic mental, emotional, physical, and sexual abuse hidden away in the family closet. Out of sight out of mind. For me, my parents "philosophy of life" was to encourage and enable myself and my siblings to "love and protect" at all costs our parents. You know, when the abused allow the abuse in the name of love, always hoping for real love to manifest. Of course, it never does.
I'm not going to go into details. Its not the details which are important in this thread. What is important is my parents didn't struggle with being parents. I don't think they ever really assumed such responsibility. I think they did struggle with guilt, remorse, regret, and self-hatred, which they projected onto their children.
They saw me as not being in the fold, if you will. They also saw me as being aware of what was going on. I partially remember an incident when children's services were investigating what was later officially rendered as "rumour and suspicion." A policeman was in the front hall asking questions. I spoke up. I was like 7 or 8 years old. When the officer left, I was slapped in the face for "telling stories." Of course, this was back in the mid 60's. Child and family abuse had an entirely different legal and social understanding. Back then, parents ruled.
So, its not that they didn't appreciate my attitude, lol, they didn't appreciate my not loving them back as they had so earnestly taught me. I really can't be more clear. I have many experiences which will never be shared. Ever. What would be the point?
haennie, you and I share a valued friendship, which we are both grateful for goes without saying. We nourish it, we put it into action, we take joy and responsibility for having such a friendship.
As for my parents, its not like they tried and failed loving me. They were already all set with themselves before I was born. In their eyes they were quite successful. In my eyes they failed to raise the son they desired. In their eyes, I simply won't fall into my place with a smile on my face. In my eyes, I did my best to stop their abuse of me all prettily wrapped up in what they sold as "family love."
I wasn't entirely successful. And yet, successful enough to know I am responsible for my own thoughts, feelings, and actions. My past circumstances do not offer me a pass. It's not about fault. It's about responsibility. It was always about responsibility.
I'm okay with these discussions. I haven't been their "son" for many decades now. Thanks for continuing this haennie. My experiences are mine to own.
No worries.
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: NYC
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It's scary how hard it is to put one's parents to rest, even when they're dead. My mother haunts me now -- she was all safely tucked away and powerless as an old lady in her small town with her tiny life & her scotch, but dead she's resumed a lot of vigor. My poor brother wrote me today that he's created an alternate personality for all his bad crap and he's named it after her! It's so sick, it's funny. 
I wrote this about her a year ago -- Enjoy if you like! http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ml#post4564429
I wrote this about her a year ago -- Enjoy if you like! http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ml#post4564429
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 8,614
Hi Robbyrobot, this conversation is way over my head, that's why I don't usually say much. I hope I don't seem shallow because of that, I just prefer to say nothing if I don't have anything useful to contribute. But, I am so very sorry you were treated that way and I can identify with the loss of not having a family. You deserve better.
Adventures In SpaceTime
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Oh yeah, the stroll with Melissa was a highlight of the day. I'm feeling way better. Wearing pj bottoms and a button down shirt, hair combed and not too unruly. Big grin.
Today was a turning point for me in personal ways, beyond the medical struggles and recent achievements. I present as more able, more awake, more able to go friggin' home!!!
Thanks guys for all the thoughts and such. It does me good to enjoy your care and love.
I'm feeling way better. Wearing pj bottoms and a button down shirt, hair combed and not too unruly. Big grin. Today was a turning point for me in personal ways, beyond the medical struggles and recent achievements. I present as more able, more awake, more able to go friggin' home!!!
Thanks guys for all the thoughts and such. It does me good to enjoy your care and love.
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Join Date: Nov 2012
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Originally Posted by RobbyRobot
Oh yeah, the stroll with Melissa was a highlight of the day. I'm feeling way better. Wearing pj bottoms and a button down shirt, hair combed and not too unruly. Big grin.
Today was a turning point for me in personal ways, beyond the medical struggles and recent achievements. I present as more able, more awake, more able to go friggin' home!!!
I'm feeling way better. Wearing pj bottoms and a button down shirt, hair combed and not too unruly. Big grin. Today was a turning point for me in personal ways, beyond the medical struggles and recent achievements. I present as more able, more awake, more able to go friggin' home!!!
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Norfolk, MA
Posts: 792
Wow, Courage...
What a beautifully sad poem.
The imagery is lovely and scary.
My childhood was its own thread in itself. We were always described by friends of my parents as the family that belonged on the cover of Life. Boy! Did my mother eat that up. Everything was done for appearances sake. Still when asked how my mother's new doctor is, or any other new person she's met, the response is, "Oh,
She's/he's very attractive".
An episode that kind of sums things up for me happened when I was in first grade and we were learning about being careful of strangers. After school one rainy afternoon our neighbor asked me if I wanted a ride home from school. I said, No, thank you, as I didn't know her well and was instructed not to get in strangers cars.
Later that afternoon my mother got very angry at me for embarrassing her to the neighbor by not accepting the ride.
There you have it, in a nutshell. Superficial all the way. One rule for most kids. Different rules for us. Oh, I could go on and on. I know it's nothing compared to what other people went through, but to each individual, hurt is hurt.
What a beautifully sad poem.
The imagery is lovely and scary.
My childhood was its own thread in itself. We were always described by friends of my parents as the family that belonged on the cover of Life. Boy! Did my mother eat that up. Everything was done for appearances sake. Still when asked how my mother's new doctor is, or any other new person she's met, the response is, "Oh,
She's/he's very attractive".
An episode that kind of sums things up for me happened when I was in first grade and we were learning about being careful of strangers. After school one rainy afternoon our neighbor asked me if I wanted a ride home from school. I said, No, thank you, as I didn't know her well and was instructed not to get in strangers cars.
Later that afternoon my mother got very angry at me for embarrassing her to the neighbor by not accepting the ride.
There you have it, in a nutshell. Superficial all the way. One rule for most kids. Different rules for us. Oh, I could go on and on. I know it's nothing compared to what other people went through, but to each individual, hurt is hurt.
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Fingerlakes,NY
Posts: 4,536
It's not nothing if it was something to you. Doesn't matter how anyone's story compares to others. Everyone has something that shaped them.
Glad you guys got out to enjoy some of the lovely weather.
Glad you guys got out to enjoy some of the lovely weather.
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Join Date: Nov 2012
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Originally Posted by Ajax
We were always described by friends of my parents as the family that belonged on the cover of Life. Boy! Did my mother eat that up. Everything was done for appearances sake.
Originally Posted by Ajax
to each individual, hurt is hurt.
Adventures In SpaceTime
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Originally Posted by Venecia
Another day, more posts. And still, I feel so at a loss for words.
Rob, I think you and Melissa are awakening in so many of us a sense of what matters.
I hope you get to go fishing soon.
Rob, I think you and Melissa are awakening in so many of us a sense of what matters.
I hope you get to go fishing soon.
Me too about the word loss. Awakening is a good word. Like any couple, Melissa and I work through our differences as best we can, or at least as best as we do. The last few weeks have completely changed the landscape of what defines our differences. Suddenly skin on skin hand contact is even more important than ever before in a usual day. Little words of praise and patience linger longer, and the atmosphere is something shared between us. Our boundaries are changing too. We're more protective as a couple, more intuitive to whatever may come disrupting and we act more together to mitigate the negatives. Our plans for near and far future obviously have changed. We stay light and positive when we speak of the future.
Its all just more enhanced, more focused by the lousy grimness not into another life problem, but into what can be done now which moves us responsibly forward. ((((Melissa))))
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