intimacy?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New York
Posts: 211
intimacy?
This is one subject that I haven't seen addressed.
How can you be intimate with someone that you do not trust?
After all the lies, it's difficult to get on with that part of a relationship.
I have more to ask but that one is really important to me.
NoDoubt
How can you be intimate with someone that you do not trust?
After all the lies, it's difficult to get on with that part of a relationship.
I have more to ask but that one is really important to me.
NoDoubt
Paused
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Posts: 15
Nodoubt,
This is a tough question. My opinion and this is strictly mine, a relationship without trust is not a relationship. I'm not sure what your story is but if there are trust issues, you need to work and resolve those. There may also be health concerns involved here, especially if you feel you cannot be intimate because there is no trust.
This is a tough question. My opinion and this is strictly mine, a relationship without trust is not a relationship. I'm not sure what your story is but if there are trust issues, you need to work and resolve those. There may also be health concerns involved here, especially if you feel you cannot be intimate because there is no trust.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New York
Posts: 211
No, no. It's not like that!!
I have been married to my husband for almost 14 years. I trust him with regard to being faithful. The trust I have lost is regarding being truthful about drinking. His history of difficulties with drinking go back about 5 years. I really do love him and I know he loves me. The problem is that he lies about his drinking. He will usually tell the truth the next day (when he is sober).
Well, he hasn't had a drink in 3 weeks. Things are OK here and I hope they remain that way. I have just recently begun to take care of myself and 'let go' of worrying about him.
When he is sober I would trust him with my life and of course that of our children. But, when he drinks he can look me straight in the eyes and insist he hasn't had a drink (even when he is practically falling over).
Just wanted to clear that up.
NoDoubt
I have been married to my husband for almost 14 years. I trust him with regard to being faithful. The trust I have lost is regarding being truthful about drinking. His history of difficulties with drinking go back about 5 years. I really do love him and I know he loves me. The problem is that he lies about his drinking. He will usually tell the truth the next day (when he is sober).
Well, he hasn't had a drink in 3 weeks. Things are OK here and I hope they remain that way. I have just recently begun to take care of myself and 'let go' of worrying about him.
When he is sober I would trust him with my life and of course that of our children. But, when he drinks he can look me straight in the eyes and insist he hasn't had a drink (even when he is practically falling over).
Just wanted to clear that up.
NoDoubt
Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,955
For me, there is no relationship
without trust. I honestly don't know how people manage to continue in relationships where trust has been repeatedly broken. I guess for me, this is just a "zero tolerance" issue. And I'm not talking about minor things here, I'm talking about major breaches of trust in a relationship.
Peace,
Gabe
Peace,
Gabe
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New York
Posts: 211
I don't know how to express this exactly, but I am trying. I trust my husband when he is sober. I don't trust him to be truthful about being sober. I completely trust him regarding faithfulness and caring for and loving me.
I think maybe my question came across wrong.
I just want to trust him to be truthful and to keep trying to remain sober.
I hope that makes some sense.
NoDoubt
I think maybe my question came across wrong.
I just want to trust him to be truthful and to keep trying to remain sober.
I hope that makes some sense.
NoDoubt
Paused
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Posts: 15
Hi Nodoubt,
Thanks for clarifying your concerns regarding trust. I am an alcoholic and also qualify for Al-Anon. I have been sober for over 17 months and I am very active in my program and in service work.
When I was drinking, I too would lie. I was in such denial over my drinking problem and the shame and the guilt of what I knew I was yet haden't accepted yet caused me to lie about my drinking, over and over. This is a serious disease, a soul sickness. Once I hit my bottom and found AA, I found hope. If your husband is lying about his drinking, he's fighting an internal demon. It has nothing to do with you. You can't make him pick up a drink and you can't make him stop drinking either. He's the only one who can do this.
Stay strong and keep taking care of yourself and trust that God will take care of him.
Thanks for clarifying your concerns regarding trust. I am an alcoholic and also qualify for Al-Anon. I have been sober for over 17 months and I am very active in my program and in service work.
When I was drinking, I too would lie. I was in such denial over my drinking problem and the shame and the guilt of what I knew I was yet haden't accepted yet caused me to lie about my drinking, over and over. This is a serious disease, a soul sickness. Once I hit my bottom and found AA, I found hope. If your husband is lying about his drinking, he's fighting an internal demon. It has nothing to do with you. You can't make him pick up a drink and you can't make him stop drinking either. He's the only one who can do this.
Stay strong and keep taking care of yourself and trust that God will take care of him.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,955
Grasshopper:
"Soul sickness" is the most eloquent phrase I have ever heard to describe addiction. Thank you, I am adding that one to my repetoire.
No Doubt: It's been my experience that alcoholics are incapable of telling the truth about their drinking while they are drunk. It has also been my experience that it's a pretty pointless endeavor to expect the truth from them while they are drunk. Again, this is just my experience.
As to the intimacy question, sorry if I misunderstood you there. If it's just about being intimate when he is drunk or lying about being drunk; maybe you just need to let him know that you aren't comfortable being intimate with him at those times. I was always pretty honest about this topic. In my opinion, there is just nothing romantic or sexy about a man who spends forty-five minutes lecturing you about how he is sober (damn it!) while he belches Vodka and slurs his words.
Peace,
Gabe
No Doubt: It's been my experience that alcoholics are incapable of telling the truth about their drinking while they are drunk. It has also been my experience that it's a pretty pointless endeavor to expect the truth from them while they are drunk. Again, this is just my experience.
As to the intimacy question, sorry if I misunderstood you there. If it's just about being intimate when he is drunk or lying about being drunk; maybe you just need to let him know that you aren't comfortable being intimate with him at those times. I was always pretty honest about this topic. In my opinion, there is just nothing romantic or sexy about a man who spends forty-five minutes lecturing you about how he is sober (damn it!) while he belches Vodka and slurs his words.
Peace,
Gabe
Paused
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: oregon
Posts: 7
I know what you mean. My husband lies to me too and it has really done a lot of damage. When he whines about how he would like things to be like they were in the beginning it's hard to believe that he just doesn't get what the problem is.
I have just had to flat out tell him that every lie takes us farther from where he wants us to be. If he's wanting intimacy while he's drunk I just tell him that I have no desire for him while he's like that. Does this hurt him? Probably but these are my boundaries on this subject. I don't think it's unreasonable to feel this way.
I have just had to flat out tell him that every lie takes us farther from where he wants us to be. If he's wanting intimacy while he's drunk I just tell him that I have no desire for him while he's like that. Does this hurt him? Probably but these are my boundaries on this subject. I don't think it's unreasonable to feel this way.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: California
Posts: 329
AMEN to what Gabe said!!
When my husband is drunk and he goes to take one of our dogs out she will get happy and wag her tail and then lick his neck. He says to me," I wish my wife would do that to me". Well honey as far as I am concerned YOU are in the dog house!! The dog is going to love him or should I say like him no matter what because he is showing her attention. Being intimate with him in that state is the LAST thing on my mind.
Hearing the lies and excuses is another total turnoff!
Hang in there Nodoubt! Keep coming back and remember to keep taking care of yourself. I will pray that things keep going well for you and your husband.
matters
When my husband is drunk and he goes to take one of our dogs out she will get happy and wag her tail and then lick his neck. He says to me," I wish my wife would do that to me". Well honey as far as I am concerned YOU are in the dog house!! The dog is going to love him or should I say like him no matter what because he is showing her attention. Being intimate with him in that state is the LAST thing on my mind.
Hearing the lies and excuses is another total turnoff!
Hang in there Nodoubt! Keep coming back and remember to keep taking care of yourself. I will pray that things keep going well for you and your husband.
matters
Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: georgia
Posts: 531
So glad you brought this up. This is an issue that causes me great difficulty. I have been married for 15 years this April, ony recently realizing that it wasn't the fact he wouldn't grow up, it was that he is and addict.
That being said I have tried to explain to my husband that also wants things to be like they used to be that I (and most women) like to feel close and secure in order to be intimate. All of the deceiving about alcohol causes doubt, resentment and anger which do not produce intimacy. I have drawn my boundaries that nothing occurs if he has been drinking. The rest of the time is very difficult. I don't feel close like a husband/wife relationship should be, but I can't get there by myself. Unless I make the decision to leave or ask him to leave, I can't always deny him, because that isn't going to make anything better. We will only be fighting about it instead of what the REAL issue is DRINKING.
I have a problem with wanting to with hold as a means of punishing him or not rewarding him for his drinking, but that is something I have to work on. We all know that is trying to control, which does not work.
We have 3 kids and I currently have made the decision that staying is the more positive thing than leaving so I have to deal with this issue. (He is a binger, fine for weeks then blows it out and we start all over again)
I know this really didn't answer anything, but I know what you are feeling and maybe that alone will help.
That being said I have tried to explain to my husband that also wants things to be like they used to be that I (and most women) like to feel close and secure in order to be intimate. All of the deceiving about alcohol causes doubt, resentment and anger which do not produce intimacy. I have drawn my boundaries that nothing occurs if he has been drinking. The rest of the time is very difficult. I don't feel close like a husband/wife relationship should be, but I can't get there by myself. Unless I make the decision to leave or ask him to leave, I can't always deny him, because that isn't going to make anything better. We will only be fighting about it instead of what the REAL issue is DRINKING.
I have a problem with wanting to with hold as a means of punishing him or not rewarding him for his drinking, but that is something I have to work on. We all know that is trying to control, which does not work.
We have 3 kids and I currently have made the decision that staying is the more positive thing than leaving so I have to deal with this issue. (He is a binger, fine for weeks then blows it out and we start all over again)
I know this really didn't answer anything, but I know what you are feeling and maybe that alone will help.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New York
Posts: 211
Gabe- you are sooo right. I have told him, when he is sober that nothing is going to happen if he has been drinking. It's just kind of funny how when the subject of intimacy pops up, he always says that I have been distant for a while. It upsets him that I don't want to be intimate and haven't expressed a want for some time now. I then remind him about when this all started (around the time that I was first catching him lying about drinking). He comes back with "I don't think so".
Constant - I guess my husband is a binger too. He does not drink in the house (laid down those ground rules a few years ago). But, every so often (sometimes during the week sometimes on the weekend) he spends a lot of time running little errands (going to a bar or getting something to drink and drinking it out of his truck). When he comes home he seems fine. Then within 1/2 hour or so he appears to be getting drunk right before my eyes (he prefers Jack Daniels). He starts out as "Mr Happy" and then becomes "Mr Snotbag!!" (I have many other names for him, that one is just typical).
Over the past few weeks he hasn't been drinking but he has been quite distant. I wish he would open up. I have expressed to him that I am here to listen to him. But, he makes no attempt to talk about anything important. Last night he was talking a little bit. But, he wasn't making eye contact (usually I believe that he has been drinking when he does that). I am trying to to worry about drinking and I said nothing (he really didn't appear to have had a drink).
Anyway, I'm rambling. Thanks everyone!!!
NoDoubt
Constant - I guess my husband is a binger too. He does not drink in the house (laid down those ground rules a few years ago). But, every so often (sometimes during the week sometimes on the weekend) he spends a lot of time running little errands (going to a bar or getting something to drink and drinking it out of his truck). When he comes home he seems fine. Then within 1/2 hour or so he appears to be getting drunk right before my eyes (he prefers Jack Daniels). He starts out as "Mr Happy" and then becomes "Mr Snotbag!!" (I have many other names for him, that one is just typical).
Over the past few weeks he hasn't been drinking but he has been quite distant. I wish he would open up. I have expressed to him that I am here to listen to him. But, he makes no attempt to talk about anything important. Last night he was talking a little bit. But, he wasn't making eye contact (usually I believe that he has been drinking when he does that). I am trying to to worry about drinking and I said nothing (he really didn't appear to have had a drink).
Anyway, I'm rambling. Thanks everyone!!!
NoDoubt
Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: georgia
Posts: 531
Hey NoDoubt,
When I was reading your post I noticed something and I am not sure if I understand it. "I am trying to to worry about drinking and I said nothing" Did ya mean trying not to worry? or consumed by worry? I was confused!
I hope that you meant not worry, because it is the best thing for you! Anyway just thought I would check and see.
When I was reading your post I noticed something and I am not sure if I understand it. "I am trying to to worry about drinking and I said nothing" Did ya mean trying not to worry? or consumed by worry? I was confused!
I hope that you meant not worry, because it is the best thing for you! Anyway just thought I would check and see.
Paused
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: wilmington, de
Posts: 5
I can definatly relate to this issue. When you feel your partner is keepimg anyhting from you and not being honest then it interferes with any intamacy. Well, at least for a woman it does. I would explain this to my hubbie asll the time. When he was not using, was cheerful, and helping out around the house, then I had no problem being intimate with him. When things started to change then I really did not want to be close to him in anyway. I did not even want to kiss him good night. I know for me, the happier I feel with my mate the better our intamacy is!
Paused
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Central California
Posts: 3
Me too
My new husband is a binger too. Its very cruel for the partner. Things are fine for weeks & just when I think things are better then he goes on a busniness trip where he & his cronies "male bond" (get drunk). He always calls me while away but when he disappears & doesn't call I know what's happening. He comes home sometimes very ill-appearing, sunken eyes, no appetite. I know damn well he had a deathly hangover. Tries in vain to hide it from me. Pathetic.
He has ongoing health problems from drinking which of course he totally denies & lies to his doctor. He'll look me right in the face & tell me he does NOT have high blood pressure when the reading says 160/90! (I'm told it's from drinking)
6 mos. ago I began to notice the lies. (I did not see them before, I believed everything he told me!) With the lies I started not responding in bed very much. No desire. He knows something's wrong. I can't sleep w/ a man who lies to me. You are not alone. Of course if I bring up the REAL reason for my lack of desire, the fighting will start & I don't want to be lied to. So I avoid it. Not sure how long I can avoid it though.
Beth
He has ongoing health problems from drinking which of course he totally denies & lies to his doctor. He'll look me right in the face & tell me he does NOT have high blood pressure when the reading says 160/90! (I'm told it's from drinking)
6 mos. ago I began to notice the lies. (I did not see them before, I believed everything he told me!) With the lies I started not responding in bed very much. No desire. He knows something's wrong. I can't sleep w/ a man who lies to me. You are not alone. Of course if I bring up the REAL reason for my lack of desire, the fighting will start & I don't want to be lied to. So I avoid it. Not sure how long I can avoid it though.
Beth
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New York
Posts: 211
It's hard to avoid bringing up the real reason for decreased intimacy. No matter what it gets turned around. I can tell he believes it's my problem and he is the on suffering for it.
Oh well, hopefully that is in the past. Things have been looking up lately (over 3 weeks without a drink). We have also been doing more things as a family. He has been joining in with us.
Keep your fingers crossed.
NoDoubt!!???
Oh well, hopefully that is in the past. Things have been looking up lately (over 3 weeks without a drink). We have also been doing more things as a family. He has been joining in with us.
Keep your fingers crossed.
NoDoubt!!???
Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: California
Posts: 329
Good news NoDoubt!!
I am really glad to hear that your husband is participating in family functions. It is like they are two people. Of course I'm a Gemini. I can totally relate to the TWO person deal!
I am praying that everything continues to improve.
Take care,
matters
I am really glad to hear that your husband is participating in family functions. It is like they are two people. Of course I'm a Gemini. I can totally relate to the TWO person deal!
I am praying that everything continues to improve.
Take care,
matters
Paused
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ogdensburg, NY
Posts: 30
I identify
Dear Nodoubt,
Wow, I just read your initial post and immediately identified. I know EXACTLY what you mean. That feeling of a lack of trust hurt me because I have always felt that I had a strong intuition and that I could really rely on myself to KNOW what I know to be true. I always trusted my gut reactions and feelings that something was right or not so right. What my A's lies did to me was that it destroyed that sense of being able to rely on myself and on my own intuition. I would say to him, are you high? he always lied about smoking pot, he would say no, and I would KNOW he was high but then tell myself that I must be crazy.
That really did a number on me, it allowed me to go further into my own denial, if you know what I mean. I began to negate what I knew to be true, he was using ALL the time not just once a month like he said. I have since found out that he did lie all the time and that he was using daily, he admitted this in marriage counselling a year before we separated. He has since been honest about his past use and only recently is being honest about his present use.
I would have to say that the ONE thing that truly drove me to seek separation was the feeling that I could not trust him. Like many of the others that posted replies here, I too would be very open to sexual intimacy when he was sober but would want nothing to do with him when he was drunk or I knew he had been using. For me, he seemed very stupid when he was high, couldn't carry on a conversation, I had to repeat myself over and over to tell him information, etc.
What you are going through right now is very hard. Hang in there and please consider going to Al-Anon. It is saving my soul right now. I don't know where I would be if it weren't for God working in my life through Al-Anon. Many thougts of empathy are going your way...hang in there and follow the three C's I read about on this board a few days ago
Wow, I just read your initial post and immediately identified. I know EXACTLY what you mean. That feeling of a lack of trust hurt me because I have always felt that I had a strong intuition and that I could really rely on myself to KNOW what I know to be true. I always trusted my gut reactions and feelings that something was right or not so right. What my A's lies did to me was that it destroyed that sense of being able to rely on myself and on my own intuition. I would say to him, are you high? he always lied about smoking pot, he would say no, and I would KNOW he was high but then tell myself that I must be crazy.
That really did a number on me, it allowed me to go further into my own denial, if you know what I mean. I began to negate what I knew to be true, he was using ALL the time not just once a month like he said. I have since found out that he did lie all the time and that he was using daily, he admitted this in marriage counselling a year before we separated. He has since been honest about his past use and only recently is being honest about his present use.
I would have to say that the ONE thing that truly drove me to seek separation was the feeling that I could not trust him. Like many of the others that posted replies here, I too would be very open to sexual intimacy when he was sober but would want nothing to do with him when he was drunk or I knew he had been using. For me, he seemed very stupid when he was high, couldn't carry on a conversation, I had to repeat myself over and over to tell him information, etc.
What you are going through right now is very hard. Hang in there and please consider going to Al-Anon. It is saving my soul right now. I don't know where I would be if it weren't for God working in my life through Al-Anon. Many thougts of empathy are going your way...hang in there and follow the three C's I read about on this board a few days ago
Learning to love life...
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 529
Hi No Doubt
The whole intimacy thing has been something I have pondered and mused over for soooo long; and of course my hubby always brings it up, wondering why he isn't "gettin' any".
I agree with a lot of what has been said so far... I need to feel my husband is attentive to my needs, being truthful and wants to "connect" with me before I am wanting to jump into bed with him. My A is also a binger (sober for 3-5 weeks at a time). When he is sober, I get to have my friend / lover around to talk to and share my life with; we make real love and have a great time. Life goes on quite smoothly, and I have no problem trusting him, and knowing that his intentions are sincere and honerable. However, we soon reach that 3-4 week mark and his behaviors start to change (hmmm... I am thinking it is sick that I actually pick up on this). He starts getting grumpy and short tempered, and I know he is looking for the right time, and the perfect opportunity to binge again. Of course, I am trying soooo hard to detach, and let go so I don't react to these behaviors and just continue on... Eventually he drinks / uses, and I don't see him for 2 days. In regards to intimacy, I immediatly feel "used" - like he got what he wanted, and stepped all over me (yes, I still get angry). I suppose that I take it all so personally. For me, it takes so much of my heart and soul to connect with him on an intimate level... I don't always just want the sex, you know? And his drinking / using just seems so selfish and disrespectful. Anyhow, I KNOW I have a lot of work to do... I definatly take it way to personally. It was comforting to hear that I am not alone in my struggles - thanks!
Meg
I agree with a lot of what has been said so far... I need to feel my husband is attentive to my needs, being truthful and wants to "connect" with me before I am wanting to jump into bed with him. My A is also a binger (sober for 3-5 weeks at a time). When he is sober, I get to have my friend / lover around to talk to and share my life with; we make real love and have a great time. Life goes on quite smoothly, and I have no problem trusting him, and knowing that his intentions are sincere and honerable. However, we soon reach that 3-4 week mark and his behaviors start to change (hmmm... I am thinking it is sick that I actually pick up on this). He starts getting grumpy and short tempered, and I know he is looking for the right time, and the perfect opportunity to binge again. Of course, I am trying soooo hard to detach, and let go so I don't react to these behaviors and just continue on... Eventually he drinks / uses, and I don't see him for 2 days. In regards to intimacy, I immediatly feel "used" - like he got what he wanted, and stepped all over me (yes, I still get angry). I suppose that I take it all so personally. For me, it takes so much of my heart and soul to connect with him on an intimate level... I don't always just want the sex, you know? And his drinking / using just seems so selfish and disrespectful. Anyhow, I KNOW I have a lot of work to do... I definatly take it way to personally. It was comforting to hear that I am not alone in my struggles - thanks!
Meg
Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 444
Well.....
Since you brought it up, I guess my problem is not as much the trust as it is his ability. When he's drinking fairly consistently, even when he's sober he can't perform. Very frustrating. I can imagine away for a few moments the bad things that have happened, but this other....?
Lyn
Lyn
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
