wishful

I tried to search out this question and maybe avoid bringing up something I'm sure has been asked before, but that search button works maybe 20% of the time for me and this isn't one of those times, so please forgive redundancy in advance:
I've been loving my time here and really could not have stayed sober this long (80 days! I could have gone around the world sober!) without SR, as it has been my only source of support - I never made my drinking public so my recovery has been a solo effort, too.

I hope this doesn't make anyone mad, I know for those folks into it AA is like a religion, so there is a natural element of conversion fervor involved, but it was never what I needed. Sometimes I want to put up a post for help and I feel like saying "and no, I don't want to go to an AA meeting; and yes, I know ... one day at a time". Do we have a non-AA forum? I noticed that there are a lot of non-AA rehab centers, links, etc. - just wondering.

Totally off topic - just noticed the dancing banana and had to include him ...

historyteach

Hi, wishfull,
And KUDOS on 80 DAYS!!!
It's a wonderful tribute to SR that you attribute your success to the people here who share so willingly. Thank you for that!

To get to your point, though, I'd like to point out two forums that are not AA oriented. The alcoholism forum and the secular connections forum. The former has more AA people sharing than the latter, although there are no rules. People can post anywhere on SR as they see fit, (with the exception of the women's and men's forums). So, there are places you can go and get good alternate information about recovery.

Just a suggestion here, but, if someone posts AA information to you, can you just use a line from AA itself, "Take what you need and leave the rest." You don't have to respond to it or explain yourself. It's YOUR recovery, and, for you, the most important thing there is. I say this because I've seen people get upset over this issue, and there's really no need for that.

Everyone has their journey to take. The purpose of SR is to help or be helped. It doesn't say to help any certain way. And only you know what's right for you. But, I know I'm grateful when someone tries to help me. And patience is so much easier...

Shalom!

Lollipop

Wishful

WTG on your 80 days!!!! Thats awesome!!!!!! I do not attend any meetings, I will not completely rule the idea out as I have never been and cannot give an honest opinion either way. I can say that I have seen them help some and not help others, it is a chioce. I do not feel a need to explain to anyone why I do not attend, and there is sometimes an argument from one "side" or the other, I do not participate in those threads.
I just know that rather we are going to meetings or not, we ALL are basically here for the same reason. I use the One Day At A Time saying because I firmly believe it, I dont care where it came from LOL but if I couldnt go day by day and had to set goals any bigger then that, I know I would fail. I love this site, it has helped me in so many ways. For me, Im here to recieve and return support. I have gotten to know several different people, some live AA and some dont but I find them all to be awesome and supportive. Again, congrats, you are doing awesome!!!!! PM me anytime if you want to talk.
Liss

TexasDawn

Hi there!

I started going back to AA recently after not attending for over ten years. So I know what it feels like to NOT want to go there, and yes it can get quite old when people keep recommending it to you.

But I am not offended by your post in the least!

They are many roads to recovery and I believe that each individual should choose his own path.

Sometimes I tell people what "I" am doing to stay sober: using SR, AA, church, karate, books, etc) but I hope that I never come across as trying to convert people to AA. One of AA's principles is that it should be based on attraction and not promotion. Therefore, I think the founders of AA made it quite clear that they did not want it to be forced upon people. It should never take on that cult-like feeling to it! But I agree with you........ some people can be pushy. Even now that I am back in AA, I feel like I am their ON MY OWN TERMS, and it can be bothersome when people give too much unsolicited advice. For example, I've been in AA again now for 5 weeks and I do not yet have a sponsor. "AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!! No sponsor?!" That sends some AA people into a big panic! "get a sponsor asap!!!!" It bothers me a bit but I try to ignore it. )

So, just wanted to let you know that I am empathetic to your feelings on this subject.

Good luck in YOUR journey of sobriety!

c'est la vie

I agree that some AAers can sound a bit like "this is the best and only way and it has to be done just so or you will fail". Most of the AAers here are pretty cool though.

I waffle on the idea of having a forum strictly for nonAA though because I get quite a lot out of the posts from AA people. They truly have a great deal of wisdom that would be missed.

I know anyone can post anywhere, but I highly doubt that an AA person would spend much time responding to posts in the non AA forum, since it's almost assumed that the poster is looking for anyone other than an AA person to respond.

The Alcoholism forum is a good blend of all programs and like Teach said, "take what you want and leave the rest". Just don't respond to overagressive posts by someone pushing AA.


Very good question though and it's great that you brought it up.

Turkey

Wishful, I'm glad you posted your comment, because.....(whispering) I was kind of feeling the same way. I've tried AA and I can tell it's not for me either. I feel more comfortable and encouraged here! Everyone here has been so kind and the advice and support has been GREAT!! I just tried another AA meeting last night, and it was BAD...Even hubby said you need to try something else because I walked in shell shocked and wreaking of cigarette smoke (eckh).
I didn't want to offend anyone either, that is the LAST thing I would want to do, as we are all in the same boat pretty much. I just think some things work better for some then others. I know something led me to this site, and it has already helped me so much!
Good luck to you and hope to see you around here!!!

michski

WTG on th 80 days!

Yeah, I have a problem with all the god enthusiasm in AA as well...

But, the 12 Steps are an excellent program for change. If you can side step the god stuff and work the steps as honestly as you can you will be rewarded with more than just the lifting of the obsession to drink. You'll have a better recipe for this reality we call life.

that's my 2 cents!

hector

Thanks for posting, Wishful. Congratulations on your 80 days!

AA is like a religion? Conversion fervor? Oh my goodness! Yes it is! Thanks for opening my eyes! Guilty as charged! Holy smokes!

Never what you needed? ..........OK, bye.......... You may be right. Religion isn't what people need nowadays either. Most people claim to be Christians, most rarely attend church. I am both a Christian and an AA member, and I wouldn't want to try existing without church services and AA meetings. But to each his own! Freedom to belong also means freedom not to belong! I never have and never will demand or order anyone into either AA or church. Here's a quote I live by, I don't know where it came from: "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it!"

And I will continue to suggest AA attendance and attendance at the church of your choice. Herbert Spencer, whoever he is, is quoted on page 570 of the AA Big Book: "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation."

Doesn't apply to you. You've investigated. At least once each.

SR is your only source of support? Well, at least you have SR. I have rambled. Much of what I've typed doesn't apply here.

Moontime

um, might I add that the 12 step fellowships are the easiest way to recover. It's the easier softer way to recovery. The Blue Print is right there in the steps. There are other ways to recover and based on my own experience these people are sober but every essence of their life is unmanageable. So if you want to stop using it's possible but if you want to recover and change, I would suggest something that's proven.

doorknob

I've seen plenty of people, sober in AA/NA, who still show signs of unmanageability in their lives. And I've seen people in LifeRing and SMART, who are clearly not living in chaos. And vice versa.

aloneagainor

I'm finding the most critical componant of recovery is keeping and open mind. Inviting in ALL ideas, sources, resources, suggestions, perspectives for consideration. And then, employing your innate sense of REASON and discernment, filter through what you've found and work with what makes SENSE to you.

Like you, and many others on this site, my investment in active addiction was a solo pursuit, and my journey through recovery is also primarily being followed in the privacy of my own mind. I've tried NA meetings but cannot follow a Program (NA, religion, or otherwise) to save my life (so to speak). However, there is much to be learned from NA/ AA texts, the core ideas of many religions, and a whole range of secular philosopies. Consider them all! Extract the best and leave the rest.

The Secular Connections forum seems a hopeful resource for engagement of MIND toward better understanding of why we think/ reason/ act/ react as we do. And I've found much at the Spirituality forum as well. The two are paradoxically interconnected. On that note, from the Spirituality forum:

But if you do not find an intelligent companion, a wise and well-behaved
person going the same way as yourself, then go on your way alone, like a
king abandoning a conquered kingdom, or like a great elephant in the deep
forest. - Buddha

Moontime

like I said my experience

TexasDawn

I think Moontime and Doorknob both have correct views. (And the other views are good too). I have seen both types of people (people who seem to have to together, and people who don't) in every type of group, and that includes not just recovery groups, but churches, schools, dojos, the workplace, etc. No matter where I go there seem to be people at all stages of their lives and various stages of "manageability."

Also, it's difficult to determine "whose life is manageable" without getting to know people personally. Sometimes it can take years of trust to find out what a person is really like. People put up many facades, as we recovering alcoholics can relate to since many of us have done the same thing in an effort to hide our drinking problems in the past.

Manageability can also mean different things to different people and is difficult to measure. AA does not keep statistics on it's members. I'm not sure if other recovery groups do or not, but even if they do, a lot of those statistics are based on census information and still subject to the possibility of being skewed.

That's just my 2 cents!

OOPS, guess I have 3 cents. I just thought of something else. Varying locations are going to have different types of people and personalities too. For example, in Cincinnati where I live, there are hundreds of AA meetings to choose from. In the AA meeting at a rehab in a poor section of town, it appears that the people have much more serious problems than if compared to a meeting in a more affluent area of town. I imagine the there would be all kinds of differences among different cities, etc.

I think Teach said it right - "Take what you need and leave the rest."

But it's good to share opinions.

Okay - 4 cents. LOL

wishful

Major thank you to everyone! I was so afraid of offending someone and getting slammed - the responses to my post have reaffirmed my already-high opinion of the folks here at SR! What a pleasure to get so much help, honest opinions, and everything discussed (even disagreements) in a mature and sensible way. I'm religious and my faith is special and personal to me, but when it comes to recovery-specific information and help, SR IS MY HIGHER POWER (cue white light and Mormon Tabernacle)!

shockozulu

For me, SMART Recovery is the easiest way to recovery. It is softer. My life is manageable for the first time, because SMART teaches me how to deal with my life when I get to the point where my life feels unmanageable.

The twelve steps are proven? Could you back that statement up please. Thanks!

BigSis

I don't care if folks paint themselves green and dance naked around a fire... if it gets and keeps them sober - who cares?



I am a cheerleader for 12-step only because it is making such a huge impact in my life... 20 years after I quit drinking without a program.

As I posted to someone who wanted a "non" AA forum before... whenever I encounter an "anti-" anything.. the emphasis seems to be on the "anti" and not on the "anything".

I wish you the best.

tryingtobesober

I totally agree that AA is not for everyone it honestly freaks me out too.

Moontime

My statement is backed up the fellowship themselves and my own experience. People are celebrating 40, 50 years clean and sober. There are many people on this Site who can back up my statement that they are living happy, joyous and free because of the 12 step fellowships. You want the statement look all around you on SR, people are recoverying and staying clean and staying sober. They are giving back what was so freely given to them.


How long have you been on the SMART program out of curiosity?


Also, whatever it takes for you to stay clean go for it. I know the 12 step fellowships have proven themselves to me. Like most everyone I know, I came in here thinking this was a religious cult and they'd have me in the airports handing out leaflets, that's been a lie in my experience. I've seen people die because they didn't want to give the 12 step fellowships a chance and chose another way to recover. I've seen people try other recovery outlets and beat their wives and abuse their children but were sober. Does it happen in the fellowships too, yeah it does but I've seen these same people change to loving caring people. I'm off the soapbox, love you all. and keep coming back

shockozulu

I understand that it works for some people. I was just interested in proof, as I have been looking for studies on various recovery programs.

Antidotal evidence is not proof.


Over a year.


I have seen all of that and more in the rooms of 12 step groups. They did not stop beating their wives and abusing their children at all. They continued. That is one of the main reasons I left and began working SMART.

12 Steps works for you, that is great! I really mean that. But for me, it does not. I will not 'die' because I chose another way to recover.

2dayzmuse

My 2 cents....

As far as AA goes, it saved my life. I'm grateful it worked for me. I worked my a## off to get sober. I don't believe there is an easy way to get sober, not for me anyway. I didn't want to go to AA meetings either. I had no choice. I wanted to get sober and couldn't do it on my own. I don't try to beat anyone over the head with my BB. Frankly, I don't care what program of recovery anyone uses. However, I do have a problem with people who go to a few meetings and decide that it isn't for them. A few meetings is not a fair assessment. I hated AA, it freaked my out, but I wanted sobriety. I don't want to come off as an AA Nazi. If you can't get sober, and can't stay sober, then what? You might want to give something else a shot. Do it your way, do it his way, or try her way. If it doesn't work, you best be trying a different way.

I certainly hope I'm welcome to post on a non AA forum and give my experience, strength and hope. I don't see why I can't join in as long as I don't try to shove AA down anyone's throat. The program of recovery you use isn't important to me. It is whether you are sober or not that makes the difference. As far as the 12 steps go, work them. Look at yourself before you work the steps, then view your self after you worked them. Then decide if they work or not. I think that is the only way to really judge. For the record, nobody turns into a saint after they've worked the steps. We are after all only human.