does anyone fully recover?
fairyprincess
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: South Jordan, UT
Posts: 25
does anyone fully recover?
I've been reading and reading about acoa's. I've modified many behaviors and am stuck on a couple that I wonder if they are indeed "curable" Been married 16 years, have four children, am an adjuster. Genereally healthy husband who claims he is not getting enough in the areas of intimacy, emotion, and physical. I have been able to give up to a certain level and feel like he is too needy and I can't give anymore....he says I tend to turn on and turn off these things and wonders if I really "love" him at all.....I am beginning to wonder the same thing...getting very confused and tired of not meeting expectations that result in frustration and disappointment on both ends...is there a solution??
Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Starting over all over again
Posts: 4,426
Hello princess, and welcome to SoberRecovery.
Yes we can all recover. Some of us faster than others. What works for me is to remember that I wasn't born ACoA. I was born the same as everybody else; naked and stupid. Everything else I learned along the way, and if I learned it then I can unlearn it.
As far as your questions about your relationship with your husband, there's _lots_ of solutions. The secret is to find the ones that fit your particular situation. Have you two gone to marital counseling? There's all kinds of counselors out there, from independents operating out of their back room to big shots at a hospital. A lot of churches offer marital counseling too, if that works for you.
You mention that you are stuck on a couple behaviors. The solution there can also be counseling of some sort, although this time just for you. There's also support groups that can be a big help. I find Al-Anon to be the best for me, and in the past have found great ACoA groups. You can start your "shopping" by calling up the Al-Anon office in your phone book and check out a half dozen real life meetings.
In the meantime you can toss out your questions here and we'll all chime in with how we dealth with similar issues in our own lives.
Glad you found us.
Mike
Yes we can all recover. Some of us faster than others. What works for me is to remember that I wasn't born ACoA. I was born the same as everybody else; naked and stupid. Everything else I learned along the way, and if I learned it then I can unlearn it.
As far as your questions about your relationship with your husband, there's _lots_ of solutions. The secret is to find the ones that fit your particular situation. Have you two gone to marital counseling? There's all kinds of counselors out there, from independents operating out of their back room to big shots at a hospital. A lot of churches offer marital counseling too, if that works for you.
You mention that you are stuck on a couple behaviors. The solution there can also be counseling of some sort, although this time just for you. There's also support groups that can be a big help. I find Al-Anon to be the best for me, and in the past have found great ACoA groups. You can start your "shopping" by calling up the Al-Anon office in your phone book and check out a half dozen real life meetings.
In the meantime you can toss out your questions here and we'll all chime in with how we dealth with similar issues in our own lives.
Glad you found us.
Mike
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Arizona
Posts: 928
Hi there Princess:
Yes..I believe we all can recover as well..I've worked really hard on myself over the past 17+ years (therapy, life coaching, Alanon, SR, reading etc.)..
and I've gotten to a place where I'm pretty comfortable in my own skin. Now I'm trying it out in a new relationship.
Mike already gave you some good advice..
I'm doing premaritial counselling with my bf and over and over I am struck by the differences in men and women and communication..And how communication breaks down.
One thing I have learned recently is for me to give my bf specific examples of things I need...
For me - I've had to spell out that I would like flowers, x times per year..
I've given him a list of things I consider to be romantic and little gifts he can give me..he is slowly catching on which is great that he is willing.
My bf hasn't quite opened up as yet as to things he wants..today he is pretty happy with our relationship.
So maybe to open up the communication with your husband, can you ask him to give specifics as to what he is looking for? and then you can negotiate.
So..Physical intimatcy...kissing, hand holding, hugging, massages, sex? how often is he looking for these types..It doesn't just have to be intercourse.
Emotional intimacy - again he needs to be more specific..
I tend to get alot of my emotional needs met through Alanon and my sponsor..I did notice that my bf does want me to come to him..I just tend to be reactive so sometimes it's easier for me to go to my sponsor first and then my bf..I also have changed my expectation of the type of emotional support I can get through my bf..He's not a female so I have to kind of lay it on the line for him.But we are both trying..I'm trying not to put walls up and he is trying to be a more active listener - rather then fix my problems.
I really like Harville Hendix "Getting the Love that you Want'... He has some Imago therapists that do couples therapy. Check out the website and see if there is a workshop near you.
http://www.imagorelationships.org/
Yes..I believe we all can recover as well..I've worked really hard on myself over the past 17+ years (therapy, life coaching, Alanon, SR, reading etc.)..
and I've gotten to a place where I'm pretty comfortable in my own skin. Now I'm trying it out in a new relationship.
Mike already gave you some good advice..
I'm doing premaritial counselling with my bf and over and over I am struck by the differences in men and women and communication..And how communication breaks down.
One thing I have learned recently is for me to give my bf specific examples of things I need...
For me - I've had to spell out that I would like flowers, x times per year..
I've given him a list of things I consider to be romantic and little gifts he can give me..he is slowly catching on which is great that he is willing.
My bf hasn't quite opened up as yet as to things he wants..today he is pretty happy with our relationship.
So maybe to open up the communication with your husband, can you ask him to give specifics as to what he is looking for? and then you can negotiate.
So..Physical intimatcy...kissing, hand holding, hugging, massages, sex? how often is he looking for these types..It doesn't just have to be intercourse.
Emotional intimacy - again he needs to be more specific..
I tend to get alot of my emotional needs met through Alanon and my sponsor..I did notice that my bf does want me to come to him..I just tend to be reactive so sometimes it's easier for me to go to my sponsor first and then my bf..I also have changed my expectation of the type of emotional support I can get through my bf..He's not a female so I have to kind of lay it on the line for him.But we are both trying..I'm trying not to put walls up and he is trying to be a more active listener - rather then fix my problems.
I really like Harville Hendix "Getting the Love that you Want'... He has some Imago therapists that do couples therapy. Check out the website and see if there is a workshop near you.
http://www.imagorelationships.org/
On a tear
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Volcano Country!
Posts: 3,221
C'mon... 4 kids? Yeah, I think it is perfectly within the range of "normal" to say that I would be only sporadic with being able to provide "enough" love, emotional and physical attention to another person if I were caring for four children.
And to put that responsibility on YOU does seem to indicate "neediness" in my book. But I am no expert, and would probably be running for a marriage counselor.... if I could fit him in.
I wish you well.
PS - I don't know what "full recovery" for ACOA is.... as a child of alcoholics, I see my recovery in phases of increasingly "better".... and I don't like to limit how much better that can get!
And to put that responsibility on YOU does seem to indicate "neediness" in my book. But I am no expert, and would probably be running for a marriage counselor.... if I could fit him in.
I wish you well.
PS - I don't know what "full recovery" for ACOA is.... as a child of alcoholics, I see my recovery in phases of increasingly "better".... and I don't like to limit how much better that can get!
Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 1,086
I agree with BigSis in that I don't know what 'full recovery' is.
I think we are constantly changing throughout our lives, and since we're always changing, "recovery" becomes a moving target. I would say that at some point, practicing all the things we know to be healthy behaviors feels like a natural behavior rather than making us uncomfortable - but I don't know if that's really 'recovered' or just, as DesertEyes said, unlearning old behaviors (we may very well be replacing them with equally destructive ones..which is why I say I don't know if we ever 'fully' recover, or if we just keep shooting for that same goal and hopefully get better at hitting the goal as we go along).
Marriage counselling did my husband and I a LOT of good with dealing with similar issues, but that, of course, means he's willing to go, and also means both of you have to be willing to own up to your part of the situation. Or as my counsellor used to say "And how do YOU participate in this". A problem in a relationship can never be just one person's problem, both people contribute in some way.
I wish you much luck.
I think we are constantly changing throughout our lives, and since we're always changing, "recovery" becomes a moving target. I would say that at some point, practicing all the things we know to be healthy behaviors feels like a natural behavior rather than making us uncomfortable - but I don't know if that's really 'recovered' or just, as DesertEyes said, unlearning old behaviors (we may very well be replacing them with equally destructive ones..which is why I say I don't know if we ever 'fully' recover, or if we just keep shooting for that same goal and hopefully get better at hitting the goal as we go along).
Marriage counselling did my husband and I a LOT of good with dealing with similar issues, but that, of course, means he's willing to go, and also means both of you have to be willing to own up to your part of the situation. Or as my counsellor used to say "And how do YOU participate in this". A problem in a relationship can never be just one person's problem, both people contribute in some way.
I wish you much luck.
fairyprincess
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: South Jordan, UT
Posts: 25
thank you guys for the opionions...to BigSis...I feel I've come a long way since the discovery of ACOA. I'm sure I get a lot of my needs met through my children...unconditional love and all of that...I feel comfortable and content in my marraige...I seem to have all I need aside from the not meeting expectations of my husband and causing disappointment and frustration. I think sometimes I'm blind and can't see that I'm not emotionally close enough, physically we have sex every other day it seems...intimacy??? What does that even mean??? I feel like I am a pretty balanced emotional empathetic and caring person...how come I don't seem to reflect that?? Is it even healthy to be that close to someone? What about personal boundries...I have to have some space, doesn't everyone, even "normal" people??
Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 1,086
Yes, you should have your own space and your own boundaries. My marriage counsellor likened it to overlapping circles. There's the circle of you, the circle of him, and a place of overlap that is "us". But the majority of the 'you' circle should not be in that overlapping place.
Setting boundaries is definitely a healthy thing, although people who are not used to others setting boundaries often perceive it as being pushed away or aggressive. Is your husband's background similar to yours (eg is he a child of alcoholics or other badly dysfunctional family situation)?
Setting boundaries is definitely a healthy thing, although people who are not used to others setting boundaries often perceive it as being pushed away or aggressive. Is your husband's background similar to yours (eg is he a child of alcoholics or other badly dysfunctional family situation)?
Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 689
This is a really interesting question for me tonight. In the last few days, I feel like I have had a lapse -- in other words, I've experienced some heavy-duty pain and the tools I thought I'd been developing throughout my recovery seemed to be AWOL and I felt hurled back in time. I think I was asking this very question of myself.
But at the same time, I realized that as bad as I was feeling, I didn't go to as dark a place as I have in the past during my darkest times. The net below me was a lot higher off the ground.
So in a round about way, I think I'm saying that while I too don't know what full recovery is, I am hopeful that a have made a full recovery from the worst places that I used to go to emotionally when in pain.
gf
But at the same time, I realized that as bad as I was feeling, I didn't go to as dark a place as I have in the past during my darkest times. The net below me was a lot higher off the ground.
So in a round about way, I think I'm saying that while I too don't know what full recovery is, I am hopeful that a have made a full recovery from the worst places that I used to go to emotionally when in pain.
gf
fairyprincess
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: South Jordan, UT
Posts: 25
He seems to have lived in Mr. Roger's neighborhood. However, he has some issues that I don't understand. He gets so frustrated with family...parents, siblings, even our children and his way of dealing is to stay away from it. I am wondering about co-dependency of some sort...I feel he believes we should be able to fulfill all of each other's basic needs....how much responsibility does one take for fulfilling their own needs and is this co-dependency???
fairyprincess
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: South Jordan, UT
Posts: 25
I care about my husband, I love my husband enough to want him to have all he deserves. I am trying to be real in saying that I don't think I will ever fill that bill compleatly....he says that is selfishness, if I loved him I would do whatever it takes ie research and counseling to be able to fill the bill....what do ya all have to say to this??
Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 1,086
The "if you really loved me you'd..." line is not a good sign. If he really loved you, he would accept you as you are, not try to change you. That is true love.
And it is completely unrealistic to expect that one person could fulfill every single one of our needs. I mean, my husband wouldn't want to sit and discuss "feminine hygiene" issues with me. That need gets fulfilled by other women I know.
The hardest issues to overcome in most relationships are needs conflicts, where each person needs something that is exactly opposed to what the other needs, such as if you need time alone and he needs one-on-one time with you. Those 'needs conflicts' become very sticky, and the best I've been able to do in those situations is to acknowledge that sometimes my husband and I aren't going to be able to meet each other's needs.
Sounds like maybe your husband isn't quite understanding that. A good marriage counsellor can explain it to him in a non-confrontational way that he will understand (I didn't understand it or accept it until 2 years of marriage counselling had passed. But those were 2 of the best spent years of my life.)
And it is completely unrealistic to expect that one person could fulfill every single one of our needs. I mean, my husband wouldn't want to sit and discuss "feminine hygiene" issues with me. That need gets fulfilled by other women I know.
The hardest issues to overcome in most relationships are needs conflicts, where each person needs something that is exactly opposed to what the other needs, such as if you need time alone and he needs one-on-one time with you. Those 'needs conflicts' become very sticky, and the best I've been able to do in those situations is to acknowledge that sometimes my husband and I aren't going to be able to meet each other's needs.
Sounds like maybe your husband isn't quite understanding that. A good marriage counsellor can explain it to him in a non-confrontational way that he will understand (I didn't understand it or accept it until 2 years of marriage counselling had passed. But those were 2 of the best spent years of my life.)
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Arizona
Posts: 928
It seems to me that your husband has unrealistic expectations of relationships..
No one can EVER fulfill all your needs all the time. That's kind of what OUR recovery is about, learning how to reparent or fulfill our needs ourselves...
I think your instincts are correct about his codependency..But you can't help him - he's got to be in a place to look at his part when he's ready.
My current relationship is with someone who could qualify for Alanon..According to him his family is healthy and he has no issues...
But as we go to premarital counselling, he is starting to see that some of his behaviors (tendancy to be a workaholic, his neediness) might be an issue..
All I can say is that a good therapist might be good for both of you.
No one can EVER fulfill all your needs all the time. That's kind of what OUR recovery is about, learning how to reparent or fulfill our needs ourselves...
I think your instincts are correct about his codependency..But you can't help him - he's got to be in a place to look at his part when he's ready.
My current relationship is with someone who could qualify for Alanon..According to him his family is healthy and he has no issues...
But as we go to premarital counselling, he is starting to see that some of his behaviors (tendancy to be a workaholic, his neediness) might be an issue..
All I can say is that a good therapist might be good for both of you.
fairyprincess
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: South Jordan, UT
Posts: 25
Thank you to all of you for your comments. It reinforces to me that there are two of us in this relationship and so I have stood up and said we go to counseling together or I don't go. Now I'm waiting for an answer to weather he wants to put himself in the situation of being taken advantage of again. He sees all of my issues as using him and not appreciating what he has to offer when so many would. He feels I don't love him or I wouldn't behave like I do sometimes...he doesn't understand the nature of the beast. He feels like I am using these things as a way to excuse my behavior and not change. I feel like I'm identifying and trying to understand why I do the things I do. That doesn't "excuse" my behavior, it just makes it more understandable...He thinks it's a cop out. That makes me just plain mad. So marraige counseling or nothing...is that a fair option??
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Arizona
Posts: 928
while I agree that marriage counselling would be beneficial - it also sounds like there might be some additional work that can be done on you.
Which like it was mentioned above - either Alanon or an individual therapist could work.
My bf and I have one therapist for our premaritial counselling and I am seeing another therapist separately for some issues that I want to work on...
I don't think it has to be mutually exclusive..you can still work on you.
Which like it was mentioned above - either Alanon or an individual therapist could work.
My bf and I have one therapist for our premaritial counselling and I am seeing another therapist separately for some issues that I want to work on...
I don't think it has to be mutually exclusive..you can still work on you.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 1,086
We did marriage counselling for 2 years. I've been in my own individual therapy for 19 years off and on, and for the last 3 years straight.
Oftentimes doing individual in addition to couples therapy can help more than just doing the couples thing. That being said, you would have to WANT to do the individual thing because YOU want to, not because he's saying it's all your problem.
It takes two to tango, but it only takes one to stop the dance.
Oftentimes doing individual in addition to couples therapy can help more than just doing the couples thing. That being said, you would have to WANT to do the individual thing because YOU want to, not because he's saying it's all your problem.
It takes two to tango, but it only takes one to stop the dance.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,812
OK.... please remember to take what you can use and disregard the rest.
I have to say upfront that your situation and what you have described is a "trigger" for me, so If Im way off base just say so.... I will not be offended.
If Im understanding this correctly he is telling you that you are not meeting his emotional, physical expectations. That he feels this is your issue and that he has no part, therefore he has no reason for marriage counceling ... you are the one that needs it. Do I understand that he brings up what he thinks are you failings all the time and projects that you must not really love him since you are unwilling to give him or change to meet his expectations????
Tell me how long has this been going on. Has he always felt this way or is it something fairly new say in the last year or so?
The reason this is a trigger for me is because I have had a relationship that sounded alot like yours, I was beating my head against the wall trying to "be" everything he was telling me he needed etc.... If he complained he wanted sex 3 times a week and I adjusted, then he complained that he wanted sex to have deeper meaning, if I did that and tossed in romance then he said he felt that I was faking it and he wanted me to "want" to be there.... you get the point, nothing I could/would do was ever enough and I started resenting him and our relationship.
In hindsight and after the relationship ended, I found that I was not the problem at all.... the problem is he was "comfortable" in our relationship and bored... he was "talking" to a female friend of his that was also having issues and they were having an emotional affair. He was "looking" for reasons and I think she was too. Im not saying that he ment any of it to happen but he was not or did not understand that his reactions to me were a direct result of his emotional affair and what he thought was the grass being greener on the other side.
As for my part, I got steadly more resentful, I would advoid him after awhile only because I knew and could see in his eyes I was failing him and after so long of trying to figure out who to be (yea codi) and then trying to be that person only to be told again Im doing it wrong... well we know what happens, instead of stopping and trying to figure out the "real" issue and communicate with him I became more withdrawn.
Needless to say the relationship ended, he had the chance to find out if the grass was greener and their relationship only lasted another 6 months. It was over a year later that we actually talked and this all came to light of course by then there was nothing to save.
I dont want to scare you... and I may be way off base..... just thought I would throw out my experience with trying to be who Im not and the results.
I have to say upfront that your situation and what you have described is a "trigger" for me, so If Im way off base just say so.... I will not be offended.
If Im understanding this correctly he is telling you that you are not meeting his emotional, physical expectations. That he feels this is your issue and that he has no part, therefore he has no reason for marriage counceling ... you are the one that needs it. Do I understand that he brings up what he thinks are you failings all the time and projects that you must not really love him since you are unwilling to give him or change to meet his expectations????
Tell me how long has this been going on. Has he always felt this way or is it something fairly new say in the last year or so?
The reason this is a trigger for me is because I have had a relationship that sounded alot like yours, I was beating my head against the wall trying to "be" everything he was telling me he needed etc.... If he complained he wanted sex 3 times a week and I adjusted, then he complained that he wanted sex to have deeper meaning, if I did that and tossed in romance then he said he felt that I was faking it and he wanted me to "want" to be there.... you get the point, nothing I could/would do was ever enough and I started resenting him and our relationship.
In hindsight and after the relationship ended, I found that I was not the problem at all.... the problem is he was "comfortable" in our relationship and bored... he was "talking" to a female friend of his that was also having issues and they were having an emotional affair. He was "looking" for reasons and I think she was too. Im not saying that he ment any of it to happen but he was not or did not understand that his reactions to me were a direct result of his emotional affair and what he thought was the grass being greener on the other side.
As for my part, I got steadly more resentful, I would advoid him after awhile only because I knew and could see in his eyes I was failing him and after so long of trying to figure out who to be (yea codi) and then trying to be that person only to be told again Im doing it wrong... well we know what happens, instead of stopping and trying to figure out the "real" issue and communicate with him I became more withdrawn.
Needless to say the relationship ended, he had the chance to find out if the grass was greener and their relationship only lasted another 6 months. It was over a year later that we actually talked and this all came to light of course by then there was nothing to save.
I dont want to scare you... and I may be way off base..... just thought I would throw out my experience with trying to be who Im not and the results.
fairyprincess
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: South Jordan, UT
Posts: 25
Well cynay, that seems to sum it up pretty nicely. I don't think he is having an emotional affair...I think he wants all from me and feels that he deserves the best because he works so hard to be all of this to me and is not getting it reciprocated. So I said basically you are getting upset with me because you give me more than I need or ask for and I don't give you all of it back in return. First of all what do you do with the extra??? And I do resent a lot because I can never seem to "get it all right" So of course I do not really WANT to give him all of me in every aspect because to me that is conditional love. We have always talked of having that 20 percent of marraiges, not the 80...I have tried to follow the steps outlined but never seem to get there...my brother says there will always be something else to work on and you have to be happy with what you have today and be willing to work on tomorrow. My husband seems to want it all now and can't figure out why it is so hard for me to just do it. So his conclusion is that I don't love him. I do in that warm safe happy real way. Not a grand passion, he does not consume my thoughts and I am not always thinking of ways to make him happy or what nice things I can do for him....I take care of the home front and of him in many unnessesary ways....so what is love anyway?? And I do intend on seeking more counseling regardless because I am always curious and willing to lean more about myself, but I challenged him to go to marraige counseling because I feel he is being a bit unrealistic and he says he is always willing to do anything so this is his chance. I think we may discover wonderful things about ourselves and each other. At this point I can't communicate because no matter what I say, what he hears is that I don't love him and never did....sometimes it makes me even wonder.
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