Do you feel bad when someone bashes an alcoholic?
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: In Harmony with Nature
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Do you feel bad when someone bashes an alcoholic?
I was just wondering what other alcoholics felt about someone telling you a story about someone they knew who was alcoholic and judging them BUT they don't know you are one? What do you say when they mention it to you? I always feel a bit awckward and then I try to stick up for the person by saying it is a disease and not something they planned. Also I mention the fact that there is no way you can stop them from drinking and they need to reach that point themselves. I usually find they have this high expectation for them to stop drinking as though it is just a matter of doing just that. Abstaining from it with no other work involved. Just like that and they are supposed to be cured. it drives me crazy since they often don't realise how much work needs to be put into staying sober. Sometimes I can't help but take it personally as though they think it is something they can control and everything will be fine. Anyhow how do you handle these encounters with people? Do you ever feel like you want to reveal you are one too or do you end up keeping it more to yourself?
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
I am very open about my alcoholism and AA recovery.
For me...it is important to have others know there is no shame
That is how I can help de stigmatize the term 'alcoholic'
I often wear AA shirts..keep my medallion in my billfold..
car bumbper sticker with the AA circle and triangle
carry an AA keychain..hand out meeting schedules..
Tearing away the dark secret of addiction is
the beginning of recovery. IMO
For me...it is important to have others know there is no shame
That is how I can help de stigmatize the term 'alcoholic'
I often wear AA shirts..keep my medallion in my billfold..
car bumbper sticker with the AA circle and triangle
carry an AA keychain..hand out meeting schedules..
Tearing away the dark secret of addiction is
the beginning of recovery. IMO
Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Fight ... WIN!!
Posts: 118
Whoa, Carol - you've got to be the bravest person I know! I was the ultimate stealth drinker and still haven't spoken of recovery to a single person in my life with the exception of you SR folks (probably why you're such a lifeline to me!).
Bliss, I've been in that position, too. If the "basher" is supposedly a friend of the person being discussed I ask them what they have done to help that person - talking to them, etc. (or what they did do to help them, if the incident is in the past). Over the last few years I've seen two people go down into heavy addiction and their denial was just about outclassed by the denial their friends showed in ignoring it, so that's kind of a curren pet peeve of mine. I'm talking about people who literally fall down drunk on the floor of the bar and their friends won't even bring up "do you think you have a problem" with them later when they sober up!
In talking to bashers, if the situation is current I also recommend this site to them so they can pass it on to their friend, hoping it will serve two purposes:
1. Get them talking about addiction with their friend by offering an easy support option
2. Hopefully get the friend over here at SR where you great folks can help 'em!
Great question, BTW - looking forward to everyone else's take on this!
Bliss, I've been in that position, too. If the "basher" is supposedly a friend of the person being discussed I ask them what they have done to help that person - talking to them, etc. (or what they did do to help them, if the incident is in the past). Over the last few years I've seen two people go down into heavy addiction and their denial was just about outclassed by the denial their friends showed in ignoring it, so that's kind of a curren pet peeve of mine. I'm talking about people who literally fall down drunk on the floor of the bar and their friends won't even bring up "do you think you have a problem" with them later when they sober up!
In talking to bashers, if the situation is current I also recommend this site to them so they can pass it on to their friend, hoping it will serve two purposes:
1. Get them talking about addiction with their friend by offering an easy support option
2. Hopefully get the friend over here at SR where you great folks can help 'em!
Great question, BTW - looking forward to everyone else's take on this!
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dancing in the Light
Posts: 61,491
That is really a sore spot for me too.
I don't talk about my alcoholism to people and I hear negative comments too. It is hurtful but I try to not take it personally.
The thing I see as being positive is that more celebrities are talking about addiction. When you see someone like Drew Barrymore or Mary Tyler Moore speaking out and saying that 'yes I'm an alcoholic, I'm not a monster and I live a very good and peaceful life', it does a bit to help break down the stereotypes that people accept.
I don't talk about my alcoholism to people and I hear negative comments too. It is hurtful but I try to not take it personally.
The thing I see as being positive is that more celebrities are talking about addiction. When you see someone like Drew Barrymore or Mary Tyler Moore speaking out and saying that 'yes I'm an alcoholic, I'm not a monster and I live a very good and peaceful life', it does a bit to help break down the stereotypes that people accept.
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: CA
Posts: 307
Hi Bliss71,
I have come to accept that the world outside of AA does not understand alcoholism and live anonymously in the work world. I attend many AA meetings and am very open about my past within AA. It is a sad fact that most of the world will judge us and I think that Bill and Bob knew that when they named the fellowship "anonymous".
I think it depends on your situation. Professionally, I need to keep it to myself and have to tolerate the slights I hear against alcoholics. I know that my real life is not there, but in AA and with others in the program.
I'm all right with that, too.
Jup.
I have come to accept that the world outside of AA does not understand alcoholism and live anonymously in the work world. I attend many AA meetings and am very open about my past within AA. It is a sad fact that most of the world will judge us and I think that Bill and Bob knew that when they named the fellowship "anonymous".
I think it depends on your situation. Professionally, I need to keep it to myself and have to tolerate the slights I hear against alcoholics. I know that my real life is not there, but in AA and with others in the program.
I'm all right with that, too.
Jup.
JUST DO IT!!
Join Date: Apr 2005
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ESH
My name is Vic and I am an addict! Probably damn lucky to be here clean, that is the truth. Most of us didn't get to NA/AA/PROGRAM on our best days, and yet today some of our days are the best days. I tend to think that most of the outside people do understand that we are physically and mentally different than other people. I also IMO think that most of the people are just trying to help us to see that we are different.
Through the process of recovery, and that is all that it truly is, everyone is allowed to have there own opinions. That doesn't mean that it is right or wrong, it just is. Most of the courts today, seem to realize that WE are people who truly need help!....I don't think that it is necessarily judging us as it is that they just don't understand. The same is true for us. We can not understand how someone can go to the bar and just have one or two drinks. That doesn't make sense to us, are we then judging them from the way that we are? NO. So for them to see us, drinking to oblivion, do they judge us? Maybe, but it really doesn't' matter what other people think. All we need to do is focus on ourselves, and when we do that, it seems that we are not all caught up in what other people think.
So in recovery we learn to accept that everyone has an opinion, it is not up to us to decide if people are judging that in itself IMO is judging the judging.
Love Vic
My name is Vic and I am an addict! Probably damn lucky to be here clean, that is the truth. Most of us didn't get to NA/AA/PROGRAM on our best days, and yet today some of our days are the best days. I tend to think that most of the outside people do understand that we are physically and mentally different than other people. I also IMO think that most of the people are just trying to help us to see that we are different.
Through the process of recovery, and that is all that it truly is, everyone is allowed to have there own opinions. That doesn't mean that it is right or wrong, it just is. Most of the courts today, seem to realize that WE are people who truly need help!....I don't think that it is necessarily judging us as it is that they just don't understand. The same is true for us. We can not understand how someone can go to the bar and just have one or two drinks. That doesn't make sense to us, are we then judging them from the way that we are? NO. So for them to see us, drinking to oblivion, do they judge us? Maybe, but it really doesn't' matter what other people think. All we need to do is focus on ourselves, and when we do that, it seems that we are not all caught up in what other people think.
So in recovery we learn to accept that everyone has an opinion, it is not up to us to decide if people are judging that in itself IMO is judging the judging.
Love Vic
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Somwhere over the rainbow
Posts: 1,175
Originally Posted by Bliss71
I was just wondering what other alcoholics felt about someone telling you a story about someone they knew who was alcoholic and judging them BUT they don't know you are one? What do you say when they mention it to you? ... Do you ever feel like you want to reveal you are one too or do you end up keeping it more to yourself?
Do I feel like telling an insensitive and opinionated person about my own alcoholism... no, I would share it with the person that they are ridiculing and try to offer them some hope of a better life being possible. Why would I bother to open myself up to someone that is obviously judgmental and negative. I would point out some of the more famous alcoholics who did overcome it... that would be the most I'd do.
Peace, Levi
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: in the present moment
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For me, whenever I hear another person speak derogatorily about anyone else, either writing them off as hopeless, or evil, or permanently maligned in ANY way because of their behaviour, I am presented with a choice in that present moment.
I have found that it doesnt work for me to have a "blanket" policy of any kind, be it full disclosure of my personal struggles in any department that applies to the topic, or, retreat into silence (passive neutrality).
Generally, however, I find that when someone is berating (bashing) someone else, "it" has become THEIR problem, since they are suffering negative reactions to "it".
And, I have no "blanket" policy on how I approach people who suffer. Sometimes, I am compassionate, and tell them I can relate to what THEY are feeling, and offfer what has worked for me in a similar situation.
Sometimes, (based on knowing my own sensitivities to certain kinds of talk) I view them as too emotionally toxic themselves for me to engage with in that momement, and I establish a firm psychic boundary, trusting that they will eventually figure things out for themselves (which to me, is fear-based angry judgementalism) without my direction or input. I let the situation go to the HP of all concerned.
And, there ARE times that I feel inner-directed to speak about my own struggles with addiction, offering the person a viewpoint of hope for change. And, I let the situation go to the HP of all concerned again.
Change IS possible. In fact, life IS change. So, the person they are bashing today just may turn out to be a great gift to humanity another day.
I have found that it doesnt work for me to have a "blanket" policy of any kind, be it full disclosure of my personal struggles in any department that applies to the topic, or, retreat into silence (passive neutrality).
Generally, however, I find that when someone is berating (bashing) someone else, "it" has become THEIR problem, since they are suffering negative reactions to "it".
And, I have no "blanket" policy on how I approach people who suffer. Sometimes, I am compassionate, and tell them I can relate to what THEY are feeling, and offfer what has worked for me in a similar situation.
Sometimes, (based on knowing my own sensitivities to certain kinds of talk) I view them as too emotionally toxic themselves for me to engage with in that momement, and I establish a firm psychic boundary, trusting that they will eventually figure things out for themselves (which to me, is fear-based angry judgementalism) without my direction or input. I let the situation go to the HP of all concerned.
And, there ARE times that I feel inner-directed to speak about my own struggles with addiction, offering the person a viewpoint of hope for change. And, I let the situation go to the HP of all concerned again.
Change IS possible. In fact, life IS change. So, the person they are bashing today just may turn out to be a great gift to humanity another day.
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
Anonymity was mentioned...to clarify for those not in AA...
The AA 12 Traditions...
Eleven—Our public relations policy is based on attraction rather than promotion; we need always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio and films.
Twelve—Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our Traditions, ever reminding us to place principles before personalities.
Obviously..some of our better known members do not follow eleven..that is their choice.
And..ESH means experience strength and hope
The AA 12 Traditions...
Eleven—Our public relations policy is based on attraction rather than promotion; we need always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio and films.
Twelve—Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our Traditions, ever reminding us to place principles before personalities.
Obviously..some of our better known members do not follow eleven..that is their choice.
And..ESH means experience strength and hope
Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 859
Depends on my mood for this one, I have in the last 20 days admitted to being an alcoholic and I have never hid the fact that I am an addict. So I am very open to sayin "Hey! Its a disease " etc.
With me though, I can throw in a twist............4 years ago, I weighed in at over 300 lbs. (I am 5'6" tall) I was heavy all of my life, Obesity (like addiction) is a Disease. So I can look at a person and make a comparison. I had bariatric surgery, it saved my life, I am now at a comfortable size 10-12 compared to a W26-28. So it REALLY floors (and makes people think) When I look at them and tell them I am not only an addict/alcoholic, but I also have suffered obesity. I let them know, the whole reason I am sharing is because, a disease is a disease no matter rather it is alcoholism, obesity, or cancer, and to treat someone badly because of it is just plain wrong......I mean really......would you down someone for having cancer??? I think not.
Liss
With me though, I can throw in a twist............4 years ago, I weighed in at over 300 lbs. (I am 5'6" tall) I was heavy all of my life, Obesity (like addiction) is a Disease. So I can look at a person and make a comparison. I had bariatric surgery, it saved my life, I am now at a comfortable size 10-12 compared to a W26-28. So it REALLY floors (and makes people think) When I look at them and tell them I am not only an addict/alcoholic, but I also have suffered obesity. I let them know, the whole reason I am sharing is because, a disease is a disease no matter rather it is alcoholism, obesity, or cancer, and to treat someone badly because of it is just plain wrong......I mean really......would you down someone for having cancer??? I think not.
Liss
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Today
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I too, like Carol am very open about my alcoholism. It's to the point now I actuallly have friends of friends referred to me when they are having a problem or someone in their family is, rofl.
I too, have "Easy Does It" and "One Day At A Time" on my car. I have my 25 year medallion on the cover of Checkbook, and another one on my key chain. I keep "extra" recovery literature in my car, so I can hand it to someone at a moment's notice. It is no longer a DARK SECRET for this alkie. lol
A good example was yesterday morning. I had an appt. with my Dr. My Dr is one of several in a great little Clinic here. Anyway, after my appt. I was talking with one of the nurses and she said to me "I would never have known you are an alcoholic, you don't act like one. All the ones I know that aren't drinking are still the same way they were, just with no alcohol in them."
That openning gave me a chance to talk about recovery. The difference between just NOT DRINKING and WORKING ON ONE'S SELF. I heard some "judgement" in her voice, but she also acknowledged that not having experienced addiction herself, she could not understand the ramifications of it.
Now to your question: "What do you say when they mention it to you?"
First I always tell them I am a Sober Alcoholic. Then I briefly explain, that the person "has to want" sobriety and that sometimes takes time. Sometimes the person will come back with a statement about "will power." I then quietly explain that is has nothing to do with "will power" that it is a physical craving that can and does become so overpowering that the only thing the person can do is pick up a drink. I usually try and explain that until the individual gets sick and tired of all the chaos in their own life, they will probably do nothing about their drinking and/or using.
By not developing an attitude and remaining calm and just offering information based on my E S & H I usually end up with a positive response from the other person.
However, if its just a conversation that I am 'over hearing' (eavesdropping so to speak, lmao) I stay out of it and go on about my business.
I know annoynimity is a personal choice for all of us. I just figured from early on in sobriety, that everyone who ever knew me, knew I was a full blown alcoholic, so I had no problem with letting the world know I was now SOBER and doing something about my life. roflmao But, that's just me........each and every one of us has to decide what we are most comfortable with.
JMHO
Hang in there Bliss, its DOES GET BETTER AND BETTER!!!!!!
Love and (((((to all))))),
I too, have "Easy Does It" and "One Day At A Time" on my car. I have my 25 year medallion on the cover of Checkbook, and another one on my key chain. I keep "extra" recovery literature in my car, so I can hand it to someone at a moment's notice. It is no longer a DARK SECRET for this alkie. lol
A good example was yesterday morning. I had an appt. with my Dr. My Dr is one of several in a great little Clinic here. Anyway, after my appt. I was talking with one of the nurses and she said to me "I would never have known you are an alcoholic, you don't act like one. All the ones I know that aren't drinking are still the same way they were, just with no alcohol in them."
That openning gave me a chance to talk about recovery. The difference between just NOT DRINKING and WORKING ON ONE'S SELF. I heard some "judgement" in her voice, but she also acknowledged that not having experienced addiction herself, she could not understand the ramifications of it.
Now to your question: "What do you say when they mention it to you?"
First I always tell them I am a Sober Alcoholic. Then I briefly explain, that the person "has to want" sobriety and that sometimes takes time. Sometimes the person will come back with a statement about "will power." I then quietly explain that is has nothing to do with "will power" that it is a physical craving that can and does become so overpowering that the only thing the person can do is pick up a drink. I usually try and explain that until the individual gets sick and tired of all the chaos in their own life, they will probably do nothing about their drinking and/or using.
By not developing an attitude and remaining calm and just offering information based on my E S & H I usually end up with a positive response from the other person.
However, if its just a conversation that I am 'over hearing' (eavesdropping so to speak, lmao) I stay out of it and go on about my business.
I know annoynimity is a personal choice for all of us. I just figured from early on in sobriety, that everyone who ever knew me, knew I was a full blown alcoholic, so I had no problem with letting the world know I was now SOBER and doing something about my life. roflmao But, that's just me........each and every one of us has to decide what we are most comfortable with.
JMHO
Hang in there Bliss, its DOES GET BETTER AND BETTER!!!!!!
Love and (((((to all))))),
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