Off The Wall Question
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Martinsburg, WV
Posts: 24
Off The Wall Question
I have somewhat of an off-the-wall question.
When my wife goes out drinking (which she is tonight, but, unfortunately, that was expected, as it is her pool night), does the state in which I leave the house at bed time make a difference?
In other words, if I don't bother too much to clean up messes, is that a good thing, a bad thing, or does it really not make much of a difference?
When she's out, I usually take that time to do things on my own. I play on my computer, I let my daughter pretty much do what she wants to do (which is usually make some sort of a mess), and don't pay much attention to what the house looks like.
Obviously I don't completely ignore my daughter. I actually play with her quite a bit. I just don't stress about the fact that she's playing with something that might make a mess.
If she actually spills something all over the floor, I do clean it up. However, if she just kind of spreads her toys around the living room, I don't bother with it (this is actually the way I've always been - I figure - why clean up a mess right now if it's just going to come right back in another 20 or 30 minutes?).
Any thoughts on whether or not this might have an effect on my wife's behaviour? This is one of the few things on which she actually has never blamed her binge drinking. I'm just a little curious.
When my wife goes out drinking (which she is tonight, but, unfortunately, that was expected, as it is her pool night), does the state in which I leave the house at bed time make a difference?
In other words, if I don't bother too much to clean up messes, is that a good thing, a bad thing, or does it really not make much of a difference?
When she's out, I usually take that time to do things on my own. I play on my computer, I let my daughter pretty much do what she wants to do (which is usually make some sort of a mess), and don't pay much attention to what the house looks like.
Obviously I don't completely ignore my daughter. I actually play with her quite a bit. I just don't stress about the fact that she's playing with something that might make a mess.
If she actually spills something all over the floor, I do clean it up. However, if she just kind of spreads her toys around the living room, I don't bother with it (this is actually the way I've always been - I figure - why clean up a mess right now if it's just going to come right back in another 20 or 30 minutes?).
Any thoughts on whether or not this might have an effect on my wife's behaviour? This is one of the few things on which she actually has never blamed her binge drinking. I'm just a little curious.
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: In Search of Finding ME!
Posts: 1,246
Any thoughts on whether or not this might have an effect on my wife's behaviour?
If it's something you've always done, then I don't believe that it should make a difference if you do it now or not in relation to if she's drinking or not.
How may it affect her behaviour? The only thing that went through my mind was the idea that she may step on something, trip on something, etc. but then again - if she's drunk, well, I'd think that was her fault and not yours.
just my thoughts for whatever they are worth.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Martinsburg, WV
Posts: 24
Originally Posted by StandingStrong
I'm rather uncertain what you are asking. Maybe I'm just dense.
Yes, it's something I've always done. However, drinking is something she's pretty much always done, but that doesn't make it any easier on me to deal with that.
Originally Posted by StandingStrong
The only thing that went through my mind was the idea that she may step on something, trip on something, etc. but then again - if she's drunk, well, I'd think that was her fault and not yours.
I was actually just thinking about the effect on her mental state, though. I mean, if you were an alcoholic, and you had to come home to a mess every time you left the house, would that make you want to drink more, or would it be a subtle push toward making you think twice before leaving the house like that? For me, it would be the latter. However, I am smart enough to realize that alcoholics (nor women for that matter) do not think the same way I do.
Holding The Father's Hand
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Oregon
Posts: 96
My first thought was, how do you feel about waking up in the morning to a messy house? Are you only not cleaning up your daughter's messes or are you leaving your own messes?
I really believe we should all clean up after ourselves, but if you are cleaning up after her, the I would say don't do it. If you are only not cleaning as a reaction to her drinking, then I think maybe you need to check your motives.
Basically, I would say that you probably shouldn't do any more than you would do on a night that she isn't out drinking, but don't do any less either.
I really believe we should all clean up after ourselves, but if you are cleaning up after her, the I would say don't do it. If you are only not cleaning as a reaction to her drinking, then I think maybe you need to check your motives.
Basically, I would say that you probably shouldn't do any more than you would do on a night that she isn't out drinking, but don't do any less either.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Martinsburg, WV
Posts: 24
Originally Posted by cwohio
it probably doesn't make much difference. what has been her response in the past? are you looking to get SOME kind of reaction from her?
childlikefaith - that's a valid response. I think that's kind of what I was thinking deep in my heart as well.
No, it has nothing to do with any messes that she makes before she leaves. It just has to do with the messes, basically, that our daughter makes while playing around.
No, it is not really a reaction to her drinking. It's just a natural response from me. I've never been really one to clean up. I try to pick up after myself, but I have never been one to get on my hands and knees and scrub anything. Although, until I met my wife, I was perfectly happy living in somewhat of a pigsty. It never really made much difference to me. Now, though, when the floor is sticky, or there's cat litter on the floor or something like that, it bothers me.
It's a little strange.
I don't know that I'm really asking a question so much as just spitting out random, stream-of-consciousness thoughts.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Litterbox City
Posts: 5,691
I don't know that I'm really asking a question so much as just spitting out random, stream-of-consciousness thoughts
Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Where the sun always shines!
Posts: 1,625
I say if it works for you....sobeit. Nothing wrong with you doing something you want...and toys scattered around the living room isn't exactly "Children Protective Services" material.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: in the present moment
Posts: 2,060
When you said : " I mean, if you were an alcoholic, and you had to come home to a mess every time you left the house, would that be a subtle push toward making you think twice before leaving the house like that?
I wondered: are you trying to punish your wife for going out drinking?
I also wonder if you are minimizing your own feelings of anger?
When you say:"Yes, it's something I've always done. However, drinking is something she's pretty much always done, but that doesn't make it any easier on me to deal with", it sure sounds like this is deeper than mindless, stream-of-consciousness to you.
What is it you really feel and are trying to say?
I wondered: are you trying to punish your wife for going out drinking?
I also wonder if you are minimizing your own feelings of anger?
When you say:"Yes, it's something I've always done. However, drinking is something she's pretty much always done, but that doesn't make it any easier on me to deal with", it sure sounds like this is deeper than mindless, stream-of-consciousness to you.
What is it you really feel and are trying to say?
How Important Is It?
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Cyberia
Posts: 612
Originally Posted by cgdc1269
If she actually spills something all over the floor, I do clean it up. However, if she just kind of spreads her toys around the living room, I don't bother with it (this is actually the way I've always been - I figure - why clean up a mess right now if it's just going to come right back in another 20 or 30 minutes?).
Any thoughts on whether or not this might have an effect on my wife's behaviour?
Any thoughts on whether or not this might have an effect on my wife's behaviour?
Clean house or messy house, she's going to drink until she is ready to get help...
Instead of obsessing and worrying about her, how about looking at you. What are you feeling, and most importantly, what are you doing to manage your own recovery? It will be a lot better for the entire family when you get the focus off her and onto you. (which is easier said than done!)
Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 1,086
I'll answer your question with a different question:
If your wife wasn't around at all, would you clean up the house before you went to bed? In that scenario, you would be doing it for your own benefit (maybe so you didn't step on a lego in your barefeet before having your first cup of coffee....MAN! those things HURT!).
If, wifeless, you would leave your daughter's toys out and it wouldn't bother you, then I would continue doing exactly what you're doing.
As for whether it makes any difference to your wife or not, well, I'm pretty certain the answer is "not". Even if she was to blame her drinking on it, you would know that that was just another excuse.
If your wife wasn't around at all, would you clean up the house before you went to bed? In that scenario, you would be doing it for your own benefit (maybe so you didn't step on a lego in your barefeet before having your first cup of coffee....MAN! those things HURT!).
If, wifeless, you would leave your daughter's toys out and it wouldn't bother you, then I would continue doing exactly what you're doing.
As for whether it makes any difference to your wife or not, well, I'm pretty certain the answer is "not". Even if she was to blame her drinking on it, you would know that that was just another excuse.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: where the streets have no name
Posts: 1,078
Originally Posted by cgdc1269
I have somewhat of an off-the-wall question.
When my wife goes out drinking (which she is tonight, but, unfortunately, that was expected, as it is her pool night), does the state in which I leave the house at bed time make a difference?
In other words, if I don't bother too much to clean up messes, is that a good thing, a bad thing, or does it really not make much of a difference?
When she's out, I usually take that time to do things on my own. I play on my computer, I let my daughter pretty much do what she wants to do (which is usually make some sort of a mess), and don't pay much attention to what the house looks like.
Obviously I don't completely ignore my daughter. I actually play with her quite a bit. I just don't stress about the fact that she's playing with something that might make a mess.
If she actually spills something all over the floor, I do clean it up. However, if she just kind of spreads her toys around the living room, I don't bother with it (this is actually the way I've always been - I figure - why clean up a mess right now if it's just going to come right back in another 20 or 30 minutes?).
Any thoughts on whether or not this might have an effect on my wife's behaviour? This is one of the few things on which she actually has never blamed her binge drinking. I'm just a little curious.
When my wife goes out drinking (which she is tonight, but, unfortunately, that was expected, as it is her pool night), does the state in which I leave the house at bed time make a difference?
In other words, if I don't bother too much to clean up messes, is that a good thing, a bad thing, or does it really not make much of a difference?
When she's out, I usually take that time to do things on my own. I play on my computer, I let my daughter pretty much do what she wants to do (which is usually make some sort of a mess), and don't pay much attention to what the house looks like.
Obviously I don't completely ignore my daughter. I actually play with her quite a bit. I just don't stress about the fact that she's playing with something that might make a mess.
If she actually spills something all over the floor, I do clean it up. However, if she just kind of spreads her toys around the living room, I don't bother with it (this is actually the way I've always been - I figure - why clean up a mess right now if it's just going to come right back in another 20 or 30 minutes?).
Any thoughts on whether or not this might have an effect on my wife's behaviour? This is one of the few things on which she actually has never blamed her binge drinking. I'm just a little curious.
I was my AW's caretaker also. I thought i'd get to her heart by cleaning after her, doing the laundry, reorganizing her closet. Well, when she saw the great job I'd done on her wardrobe she smiled a big smile, said thank you, and realized even moreso what a great enabler I was and how I provide her with a nice base camp from which to base her drinking.
I stopped my behavior a long time ago. We split physically. Sadly, it is when the pain of using exceeds the pleasure, that the motivation for recovery surfaces.
Only you can decide what/how much you want to do and for how long. To cease enabling/caretaking is actually the more loving thing to do as it has a chance of inducing recovery. On another note, place your daughter FIRST, as I do mine. If your wife does not/cannot function as a mother, you may consider keeping a video diary of her repeated drunkedness to use in case you decide to get custodial rights. Alcoholism can be difficult to prove without DUI's or related events, thus a video diary might be very helpful.
I know of a woman that gave up being an enabled/caretaker, took the kids and left her AH. He subsequently got fired from multiple jobs and decided to get sober when faced with the very real probability of losing his children and family. Been sober and functioning well for 7 years.
My blessings to you.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: ohio
Posts: 367
If you are trying to control the fact of her going out....it's senseless. She's going out, whether she comes home to a clean house or dirty. If you are wondering if she would have a different attitude, upon returning home to a clean house rather than a messy one, I'd have to say.....definately. I don't know how old your daughter is, but for your own satisfation, could you clean up the mess with her, before bedtime? I'm not an alcoholic or addict, but I do know that when I return home and the house is messy, when I left it clean, I'm not happy!
This is a strange question, I guess. But that doesn't make it bad. Just remember, your wife is going to go out, whether she comes home to clean or tornado. She just may be alittle easier to live with, in the morning, if she comes home to clean.
This is a strange question, I guess. But that doesn't make it bad. Just remember, your wife is going to go out, whether she comes home to clean or tornado. She just may be alittle easier to live with, in the morning, if she comes home to clean.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 782
Originally Posted by cgdc1269
I was actually just thinking about the effect on her mental state, though. I mean, if you were an alcoholic, and you had to come home to a mess every time you left the house, would that make you want to drink more, or would it be a subtle push toward making you think twice before leaving the house like that? For me, it would be the latter. However, I am smart enough to realize that alcoholics (nor women for that matter) do not think the same way I do.
Thanks
Its_me_jen
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Salina, Ks
Posts: 8,547
Okay - this is a bit off the wall - but hey I can relate to that.
I'm not really sure what you're question is but here's my answer.
Drunk or not - I wouldn't be happy about coming home to a house that's a wreck. BUT - whether or not you clean it up has nothing to do with her drinking. Absolutely nothing.
I'm not really sure what you're question is but here's my answer.
Drunk or not - I wouldn't be happy about coming home to a house that's a wreck. BUT - whether or not you clean it up has nothing to do with her drinking. Absolutely nothing.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,579
When I read this, I thought of our situation a few years ago (even now in a different way).
My attitude has always been the same that you describe yours....clean enough to be healthy but the "mess" of living is something I don't sweat......I would much prefer to be involves with People than concern myself if things where "out of place", a little dusty, etc.etc. I am the oldest of five and that and my general nature just have lead me to always be that way. Didn't really bug my AH when we didn't have kids (or when he helped with them) or before his drinking increased.......according to him BECAUSE of these things, kids having friends over and needing driven around to their "stuff", etc. Actually, as the alcoholism chaos increased....it DID get messier,etc....AH quit helping and also got more wanting everything controlled and predictable as it was becoming the opposite. He and I were always that he was tidier but it wasn't a problem....we accepted that about each other and respected those differences. (Worked fine for abou 20 yrs or so...haha until teenagers and alcohol).
I never left a mess "out of spite" but my reaction was that I only can do so much..........my first priority is on the personal level. If/when a choice regarding something I personally feel is of more value for me and/or our children (or him when he lived here) it will always take more presidence over cleaning for me. There is only so much of me to go around......but I will take all the help I can get! The chores always wait..
ha. But, on the other hand, I often have people drop in to visit, lots of my childrens' friends came over (and some still do even when my own kids are not here) because they felt comfortable. I personally think that is more important than scrubbing and polishing and having a spotless house with no one in it. JMO
I know that "sense of relief" when the kids and I were "off high alert" when AH had golf league. We were always tired and after awhile I lost the will to clean up "for him" because it never will be good enough while he is active and looking for it not to be.
Leaving a mess out of resentment is just as wrong..MO.
OK.......I would say moderation is always the key. (So is the age of your child......young ones ARE high-maintenance, but their messes are smaller,too and just clutter so I don't have a problem with that.) If your daughter is old enough to help..maybe have her do a quick pick-up with you. JMO
Glad you and your daughter are enjoying your time together.
My attitude has always been the same that you describe yours....clean enough to be healthy but the "mess" of living is something I don't sweat......I would much prefer to be involves with People than concern myself if things where "out of place", a little dusty, etc.etc. I am the oldest of five and that and my general nature just have lead me to always be that way. Didn't really bug my AH when we didn't have kids (or when he helped with them) or before his drinking increased.......according to him BECAUSE of these things, kids having friends over and needing driven around to their "stuff", etc. Actually, as the alcoholism chaos increased....it DID get messier,etc....AH quit helping and also got more wanting everything controlled and predictable as it was becoming the opposite. He and I were always that he was tidier but it wasn't a problem....we accepted that about each other and respected those differences. (Worked fine for abou 20 yrs or so...haha until teenagers and alcohol).
I never left a mess "out of spite" but my reaction was that I only can do so much..........my first priority is on the personal level. If/when a choice regarding something I personally feel is of more value for me and/or our children (or him when he lived here) it will always take more presidence over cleaning for me. There is only so much of me to go around......but I will take all the help I can get! The chores always wait..
ha. But, on the other hand, I often have people drop in to visit, lots of my childrens' friends came over (and some still do even when my own kids are not here) because they felt comfortable. I personally think that is more important than scrubbing and polishing and having a spotless house with no one in it. JMO I know that "sense of relief" when the kids and I were "off high alert" when AH had golf league. We were always tired and after awhile I lost the will to clean up "for him" because it never will be good enough while he is active and looking for it not to be.
Leaving a mess out of resentment is just as wrong..MO.
OK.......I would say moderation is always the key. (So is the age of your child......young ones ARE high-maintenance, but their messes are smaller,too and just clutter so I don't have a problem with that.) If your daughter is old enough to help..maybe have her do a quick pick-up with you. JMO
Glad you and your daughter are enjoying your time together.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Martinsburg, WV
Posts: 24
There are a lot of good points in this topic, and I would like to thank everyone that's responded so far.
First of all, I would like to say that I do understand that I can't control her drinking, and that nothing I do really makes it better or worse.
Secondly, I would like to say that it really was more like stream-of-consciousness thinking. I really don't leave it a mess out of spite or anything like that. It just so happened that I looked around the house while I was surfing these forums, and noticed a lot of clutter. I was curious what anyone thought about that.
I have seen some great points either way (which is kind of what was going on in my mind when I posed the question). First of all, I have seen people say that, to clean up the house, which is out of the ordinary for me, would be a step toward enabling her (which is bad). I have also seen people say that leaving a mess is not good for her general mental state (not really talking about her alcoholism here, but her general mental state). That is also bad. So, I suppose I am still stuck weighing the positives against the negatives.
I think what I was really trying to get at, as I am new to this whole recovery process, was to find out whether the majority of people thought I was enabling my wife by going out of my usual routine to try to pick up the messes that had been made while she was gone.
Pick-a-name - That was really some insightful wisdom you imparted. You summed up essentially what I was thinking, but obviously couldn't really put into words last night.
Also - for everyone that's asked this question, my daughter is a little over 2-1/2. She's big enough to make big messes (like taking the tea jug out of the refrigerator, and subsequently tipping it on its side so that half of the tea spills on the kitchen floor), but still not quite big enough to help clean up those types of messes. She is pretty good at picking up her clutter, but it doesn't happen very often in the evening time.
About 2 or 3 months ago, she got to a point where she wouldn't lie down and go to sleep when we told her to anymore. If we try to put her into her bed, she gets right back out of it, screaming and crying the whole time. We tried tough love, but she won out, unfortunately.
So, in the evening time, she falls asleep when she gets tired. Until then, she's moving a mile-a-minute. Consequently, she doesn't pick up her clutter during the evenings.
Again, though, I just want to re-iterate that I am not leaving the clutter out of spite. I am simply not a person who cleans. I never have been. If I know where everything is on the floor (or at my desk at work), then it doesn't matter whether or not it gets picked up. I only start to clean when I start to lose things.
Again, thank you all for your responses. Being new to all of this, I am still having a lot of trouble wrapping my head around the whole detachment issue. I am trying very hard to not enable my wife, while also trying to start living my own life again.
First of all, I would like to say that I do understand that I can't control her drinking, and that nothing I do really makes it better or worse.
Secondly, I would like to say that it really was more like stream-of-consciousness thinking. I really don't leave it a mess out of spite or anything like that. It just so happened that I looked around the house while I was surfing these forums, and noticed a lot of clutter. I was curious what anyone thought about that.
I have seen some great points either way (which is kind of what was going on in my mind when I posed the question). First of all, I have seen people say that, to clean up the house, which is out of the ordinary for me, would be a step toward enabling her (which is bad). I have also seen people say that leaving a mess is not good for her general mental state (not really talking about her alcoholism here, but her general mental state). That is also bad. So, I suppose I am still stuck weighing the positives against the negatives.
I think what I was really trying to get at, as I am new to this whole recovery process, was to find out whether the majority of people thought I was enabling my wife by going out of my usual routine to try to pick up the messes that had been made while she was gone.
Pick-a-name - That was really some insightful wisdom you imparted. You summed up essentially what I was thinking, but obviously couldn't really put into words last night.
Also - for everyone that's asked this question, my daughter is a little over 2-1/2. She's big enough to make big messes (like taking the tea jug out of the refrigerator, and subsequently tipping it on its side so that half of the tea spills on the kitchen floor), but still not quite big enough to help clean up those types of messes. She is pretty good at picking up her clutter, but it doesn't happen very often in the evening time.
About 2 or 3 months ago, she got to a point where she wouldn't lie down and go to sleep when we told her to anymore. If we try to put her into her bed, she gets right back out of it, screaming and crying the whole time. We tried tough love, but she won out, unfortunately.
So, in the evening time, she falls asleep when she gets tired. Until then, she's moving a mile-a-minute. Consequently, she doesn't pick up her clutter during the evenings.
Again, though, I just want to re-iterate that I am not leaving the clutter out of spite. I am simply not a person who cleans. I never have been. If I know where everything is on the floor (or at my desk at work), then it doesn't matter whether or not it gets picked up. I only start to clean when I start to lose things.
Again, thank you all for your responses. Being new to all of this, I am still having a lot of trouble wrapping my head around the whole detachment issue. I am trying very hard to not enable my wife, while also trying to start living my own life again.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
