What is helping and what is enabling!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Newport Beach, CA
Posts: 3
What is helping and what is enabling!
I would like to know what is too much to do for a loved one. My 49yo sister in law who lives out of state was admitted to the hospital with a BAC of .46 and went through detox, and is now in a rehab facility. We are very thankful that she decided to go willingly to get help.
There were definite warning signs for the past several months with phone calls from her ex-husband that she had been drinkng. We felt at that time she really needed to face the consequences of her actions and there was nothing we could do.
She has been financially supported by my in-laws since her divorce 8 years ago at which time she filed for bankruptcy and financially supplemented the previous 20 years.
My wife has spent countless hours reseaching the best facilities for treatment and one that she thought my sister in law would like as an aside (location, weather and proximity to family).
So my question to all you "experienced" family members, How much is too much?
My wife flew out of state to pick her up the moment she was released from detox; on literally 2 hours notice to book plane flights to and from. My wife arrived at 2am in the morning, checked my sister in law out at noon, stopped by pharmacy for her medication, stopped by her employer and her apartment to pack a few items and to meet her kids to say goodbye and then get to the airport to fly out by 5 pm.
Her financial life is in disarray again. We are willing to support her emotionally and attend family counseling sessions to let her get herself better. The cost of the rehab is being paid for by my in-laws.
We were thinking that we should fly out of state and pack up her belongings and put them in storage. Pay the delinquent storage fees on two units she has at present; we will continue to pay storage fees until she is able to get on her feet. Beyond that we are feeling that we should not pay any of the following bills while she is in or when she leaves rehab:
apartment rent;
office rent;
car payment;
cancelled auto insurance;
various unpaid delinquent utility bills;
credit card bills.
We are not going to pay her delinquent cellphone bill even though we realize that it will cut off her link to her remaining friends, because this is a consequence.
My wife did get her medical insurance reinstated; it had lapsed two months ago, we found out. The insurance has now been paid for a year.
We truly want her to get better for her sake and are trying to live our lives and not hers. We love her and it is painful to see what she has done to herself, but it is apparent that supporting her financially didn't work.
Since she left her home state rather abruptly and she didn't have many or any clothes that fitted her, some clothes of the Mervyns variety and an inexpensive watch and toiletries have been purchased in addition to some phone cards, since she doesn't have access to her cellphone(which she wanted smuggled in). Any suggestions on whether we should continue to get her phone cards after her cellphone is deactivated would be appreciated. At this stage of recovery my wife and in-laws are the only ones who are being inconvenienced and suffering consequences. This has impacted many postive events in our life; my wife's birthday, daughter graduatating high school and leaving for college, daughter graduating middle school. In addtion, to taking care of the day to day family responsibilities; this definitely ups the stress and anxiety levels in the household
Truly I have begun to realize that alcoholism is a family disease as they say and do not want it to take its' toll on my family or my in-laws.
Thank you for your responses and help.
There were definite warning signs for the past several months with phone calls from her ex-husband that she had been drinkng. We felt at that time she really needed to face the consequences of her actions and there was nothing we could do.
She has been financially supported by my in-laws since her divorce 8 years ago at which time she filed for bankruptcy and financially supplemented the previous 20 years.
My wife has spent countless hours reseaching the best facilities for treatment and one that she thought my sister in law would like as an aside (location, weather and proximity to family).
So my question to all you "experienced" family members, How much is too much?
My wife flew out of state to pick her up the moment she was released from detox; on literally 2 hours notice to book plane flights to and from. My wife arrived at 2am in the morning, checked my sister in law out at noon, stopped by pharmacy for her medication, stopped by her employer and her apartment to pack a few items and to meet her kids to say goodbye and then get to the airport to fly out by 5 pm.
Her financial life is in disarray again. We are willing to support her emotionally and attend family counseling sessions to let her get herself better. The cost of the rehab is being paid for by my in-laws.
We were thinking that we should fly out of state and pack up her belongings and put them in storage. Pay the delinquent storage fees on two units she has at present; we will continue to pay storage fees until she is able to get on her feet. Beyond that we are feeling that we should not pay any of the following bills while she is in or when she leaves rehab:
apartment rent;
office rent;
car payment;
cancelled auto insurance;
various unpaid delinquent utility bills;
credit card bills.
We are not going to pay her delinquent cellphone bill even though we realize that it will cut off her link to her remaining friends, because this is a consequence.
My wife did get her medical insurance reinstated; it had lapsed two months ago, we found out. The insurance has now been paid for a year.
We truly want her to get better for her sake and are trying to live our lives and not hers. We love her and it is painful to see what she has done to herself, but it is apparent that supporting her financially didn't work.
Since she left her home state rather abruptly and she didn't have many or any clothes that fitted her, some clothes of the Mervyns variety and an inexpensive watch and toiletries have been purchased in addition to some phone cards, since she doesn't have access to her cellphone(which she wanted smuggled in). Any suggestions on whether we should continue to get her phone cards after her cellphone is deactivated would be appreciated. At this stage of recovery my wife and in-laws are the only ones who are being inconvenienced and suffering consequences. This has impacted many postive events in our life; my wife's birthday, daughter graduatating high school and leaving for college, daughter graduating middle school. In addtion, to taking care of the day to day family responsibilities; this definitely ups the stress and anxiety levels in the household
Truly I have begun to realize that alcoholism is a family disease as they say and do not want it to take its' toll on my family or my in-laws.
Thank you for your responses and help.
grateful rca
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: atlanta, ga.
Posts: 4,671
hi i am so sorry that you are going through all of this and i will pray for your sil.
she is very blessed to have you guys as family,i am sorry that i don't think that i have enough experience to tell you what is too much but i will say that you are doing a great deal, with all the traveling and so. i can possibly understand putting her stuff in storage and i agree that paying all the other bills is not what i would think about, this is a hole that she has dug for herself. the whole ordeal is as far as i am concerned. i definitely would not worry about the cell phone or its bill.
my addict is my h and when he went off to rehab, i did purchase a few clothes and toiletries but as for a watch, he had to watch the wall if he had to know the time.
i think that the best thing for you all would be to get as much info as you can about the nature of addiction and seek out help for yourselves. you will help her more i think if you would focus more on yourselfs and this goes for your inl's too.
too much help i guess would be to take away the addicts rights to take care of them selves by doing it for them.
some one with more experience will be along shortly, hang on help is on the way. sr has helped me in so many ways, i am sure that you will find the answers and the road to peace, keep posting and reading.
she is very blessed to have you guys as family,i am sorry that i don't think that i have enough experience to tell you what is too much but i will say that you are doing a great deal, with all the traveling and so. i can possibly understand putting her stuff in storage and i agree that paying all the other bills is not what i would think about, this is a hole that she has dug for herself. the whole ordeal is as far as i am concerned. i definitely would not worry about the cell phone or its bill.
my addict is my h and when he went off to rehab, i did purchase a few clothes and toiletries but as for a watch, he had to watch the wall if he had to know the time.
i think that the best thing for you all would be to get as much info as you can about the nature of addiction and seek out help for yourselves. you will help her more i think if you would focus more on yourselfs and this goes for your inl's too.
too much help i guess would be to take away the addicts rights to take care of them selves by doing it for them.
some one with more experience will be along shortly, hang on help is on the way. sr has helped me in so many ways, i am sure that you will find the answers and the road to peace, keep posting and reading.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: WA Rainforest
Posts: 209
In my experience doing ANYTHING is too much. Except maybe some clothes but definitely nothing fancier than Mervyn's - heck I've always shopped at Goodwill myself and I'm not the one unable to keep a job.
Fact is - she's 49 years old. What would you do for any other 49 yr old? not much. Consider her to be a mere acquaintance, not family - the addict is not the person you thought you knew anyway so it's not a stretch. What would you give to any other 49yr old woman you met on the street? not a cell phone that's for sure, or med insurance, or storage fees or prescriptions.
What most recovering addicts seem to need is not a helping hand or a handout or a hand up or any hand at all. They need you to butt out and leave them alone. Even going to family counseling is possibly a waste of your time and emotional energy until she gets herself under some kind of control. So long as you involve yourself in her drama, she'll keep it up; so long as you keep helping her, she won't take responsibility for herself.
No one needs a cell phone! wasnt' that many years ago no one had one. Remember those days? there was no need to call someone right this very second because there wasn't the technology to support that need. Or a phone card - remember when if you didn't have the money, you just didn't make the phone call? And no one needs so much stuff that it has to go into storage to be paid for by others. A nice healthy zen detachment from belongings would be a good thing for her, and all of us, to learn.
You've got your own family to take care of - wife, daughters, self. That's enough. Your wife is suffering because her sister is an addict and addictions are family diseases. Your wife might benefit from counseling for herself - not for her sister. Al Anon or something such. You can't help your inlaws if they have decided to take financial responsibility for their daughter - that's their decision, they are adults.
I did the go pick him up from detox thing many many times. It doesnt' help. Last time ex AH was in treatment, they told me to not take him home. Let him take care of himself - get himself wherever he was going to stay, on the street if need be. They told me I was not doing him any favors by continuing to take him home every time. They say to not do anything for the addict that the person should be able to do for themselves.
Fact is - she's 49 years old. What would you do for any other 49 yr old? not much. Consider her to be a mere acquaintance, not family - the addict is not the person you thought you knew anyway so it's not a stretch. What would you give to any other 49yr old woman you met on the street? not a cell phone that's for sure, or med insurance, or storage fees or prescriptions.
What most recovering addicts seem to need is not a helping hand or a handout or a hand up or any hand at all. They need you to butt out and leave them alone. Even going to family counseling is possibly a waste of your time and emotional energy until she gets herself under some kind of control. So long as you involve yourself in her drama, she'll keep it up; so long as you keep helping her, she won't take responsibility for herself.
No one needs a cell phone! wasnt' that many years ago no one had one. Remember those days? there was no need to call someone right this very second because there wasn't the technology to support that need. Or a phone card - remember when if you didn't have the money, you just didn't make the phone call? And no one needs so much stuff that it has to go into storage to be paid for by others. A nice healthy zen detachment from belongings would be a good thing for her, and all of us, to learn.
You've got your own family to take care of - wife, daughters, self. That's enough. Your wife is suffering because her sister is an addict and addictions are family diseases. Your wife might benefit from counseling for herself - not for her sister. Al Anon or something such. You can't help your inlaws if they have decided to take financial responsibility for their daughter - that's their decision, they are adults.
I did the go pick him up from detox thing many many times. It doesnt' help. Last time ex AH was in treatment, they told me to not take him home. Let him take care of himself - get himself wherever he was going to stay, on the street if need be. They told me I was not doing him any favors by continuing to take him home every time. They say to not do anything for the addict that the person should be able to do for themselves.
grateful rca
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: atlanta, ga.
Posts: 4,671
sorry, but i think that mushroom said all the things that i wanted to say but either did not know how or was afraid to say. i think he made some really good points,
i am a recovering addict and things like the ones above is what got me to the place where i wanted to stay clean and to do what ever it took to stay that way.
my family did just that, as hard as it may have been for them, they left me alone totally and that's what worked for me.they helped me to reach my botton and today, i am truly grateful. i thought that they were being mean and cruel but today, i realize how much they must love me.
i am a recovering addict and things like the ones above is what got me to the place where i wanted to stay clean and to do what ever it took to stay that way.
my family did just that, as hard as it may have been for them, they left me alone totally and that's what worked for me.they helped me to reach my botton and today, i am truly grateful. i thought that they were being mean and cruel but today, i realize how much they must love me.
On a tear
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Volcano Country!
Posts: 3,221
What I've learned about addiction is that alcoholics and addicts are often very immature emotionally - the younger we start, the bigger the interruption in development.
My daughter asked me about this at one of her own rehabs - "How do I mature, mom?" ... my answer then is still the same - "By doing right things, even when you don't want to."
Every time I picked my kid up... every time I 'saved' her butt... I STOLE from her an opportunity to learn a lesson. Just as I cannot learn by HEARING, my kid cannot learn from HEARING... we both need to experience life in order to learn its lessons.
As a mom, I can tell you I STILL have trouble turning off the "help" button. But I do it better than I used to. What helped me was Alanon, and learning that all my "helping" was building up something nasty in me... expectations. And those expectations, when they were not met ... ended up in being some damned big resentments.
I think your wife should tread carefully... and everyone should decide for themselves how much they are "doing" with really NO expectation of anything from her... no sobriety expectations ... no payback expectations ... no gratitude expectations.
That might clarify for you what you can and cannot do....
((((Muffinman))))
My daughter asked me about this at one of her own rehabs - "How do I mature, mom?" ... my answer then is still the same - "By doing right things, even when you don't want to."
Every time I picked my kid up... every time I 'saved' her butt... I STOLE from her an opportunity to learn a lesson. Just as I cannot learn by HEARING, my kid cannot learn from HEARING... we both need to experience life in order to learn its lessons.
As a mom, I can tell you I STILL have trouble turning off the "help" button. But I do it better than I used to. What helped me was Alanon, and learning that all my "helping" was building up something nasty in me... expectations. And those expectations, when they were not met ... ended up in being some damned big resentments.
I think your wife should tread carefully... and everyone should decide for themselves how much they are "doing" with really NO expectation of anything from her... no sobriety expectations ... no payback expectations ... no gratitude expectations.
That might clarify for you what you can and cannot do....
((((Muffinman))))
How Important Is It?
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Cyberia
Posts: 612
Dear Muffinman -
There have been some great responses to your post, but I wanted to add my thoughts.
First, I am sorry for the pain and stress that is being caused in your family by an alcoholic. Since alcoholism is a family disease, the things you do actually make a difference to what happens with the alcoholic.
Please do not put one cent into financially supporting your alcholic sister-in-law.
I am not saying this to be cruel or cold. Actually, as painful as it will be for her to lose all her belongings, cell phone, etc... the thing she desperately needs right now is for her loved ones to stop ennabling her. As long as her loved ones keep rescuing her, why should she change? She knows that her family members will always be there with a safety net.
What I am suggesting (stop ennabling her) is so difficult that loved ones need support in order to set healthy boundaries. Your wife would find a huge amount of support and healing by attending Al-anon meetings. She will learn that the very best thing she can do for her alcoholic sister is to stop ennabling her.
It's very easy for a stranger to say: "stop ennabling her", but it's extremely hard for a loved one to set those boundaries (I know this from experience and I struggle with it myself). That is why we need a support program for us - to give is the strength to do what needs to be done.
God bless. Keep coming back and let us know how things go.
Is there any chance your wife could post here? Since it is her sister, your wife is probably in need of emotional support right now.
There have been some great responses to your post, but I wanted to add my thoughts.
First, I am sorry for the pain and stress that is being caused in your family by an alcoholic. Since alcoholism is a family disease, the things you do actually make a difference to what happens with the alcoholic.
Please do not put one cent into financially supporting your alcholic sister-in-law.
I am not saying this to be cruel or cold. Actually, as painful as it will be for her to lose all her belongings, cell phone, etc... the thing she desperately needs right now is for her loved ones to stop ennabling her. As long as her loved ones keep rescuing her, why should she change? She knows that her family members will always be there with a safety net.
What I am suggesting (stop ennabling her) is so difficult that loved ones need support in order to set healthy boundaries. Your wife would find a huge amount of support and healing by attending Al-anon meetings. She will learn that the very best thing she can do for her alcoholic sister is to stop ennabling her.
It's very easy for a stranger to say: "stop ennabling her", but it's extremely hard for a loved one to set those boundaries (I know this from experience and I struggle with it myself). That is why we need a support program for us - to give is the strength to do what needs to be done.
God bless. Keep coming back and let us know how things go.
Is there any chance your wife could post here? Since it is her sister, your wife is probably in need of emotional support right now.
Honk if you're a codie!
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: State of Codependency
Posts: 121
Dear Muffinman,
This is from Al-Anon literature "Courage To Change" Page 18
When I heard that the best way to help an alcoholic was to focus on myself, I thought Al-Anon was a heartless place where I would be forced to stop caring about my loved ones. I had decided never to return, but someone shared a thought that changed my mind. He said that although the desire to help another person can be well-motivated and compassionate, our old ways of "helping" don't necessarily help. Al-Anon offers a new way to help.
I examined my version of helping the alcoholic. I saw that when I covered her bad checks or made excuses for her, I kept her from facing the consequences of her actions. I actually was depriving her of opportunities to want to change.
I also had to consider why I felt so desperate unless I was helping. When I took a look at my motives, I found that it was MY anxiety I didn't want to face.
Today's Reminder
Is the help I offer truly loving or do I have other motives? Am I trying to change another person or get them to do what I want?
My best hope for helping those I love really does begin when I focus on myself.
"In Al-Anon we learn:
Not to create a crisis;
and not to prevent a crisis if it is in the natural course of events."
I am the daughter, sister, mother, niece, ex-wife, sister-in-law of addicts/alcoholics. What I have learned is that my "helping" was really hurting them. I now have put the focus on myself. Please keep posting and it would be great if your wife read these too. Good luck
This is from Al-Anon literature "Courage To Change" Page 18
When I heard that the best way to help an alcoholic was to focus on myself, I thought Al-Anon was a heartless place where I would be forced to stop caring about my loved ones. I had decided never to return, but someone shared a thought that changed my mind. He said that although the desire to help another person can be well-motivated and compassionate, our old ways of "helping" don't necessarily help. Al-Anon offers a new way to help.
I examined my version of helping the alcoholic. I saw that when I covered her bad checks or made excuses for her, I kept her from facing the consequences of her actions. I actually was depriving her of opportunities to want to change.
I also had to consider why I felt so desperate unless I was helping. When I took a look at my motives, I found that it was MY anxiety I didn't want to face.
Today's Reminder
Is the help I offer truly loving or do I have other motives? Am I trying to change another person or get them to do what I want?
My best hope for helping those I love really does begin when I focus on myself.
"In Al-Anon we learn:
Not to create a crisis;
and not to prevent a crisis if it is in the natural course of events."
I am the daughter, sister, mother, niece, ex-wife, sister-in-law of addicts/alcoholics. What I have learned is that my "helping" was really hurting them. I now have put the focus on myself. Please keep posting and it would be great if your wife read these too. Good luck
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Newport Beach, CA
Posts: 3
Thank you ALL very much for your posts. I appreciate your honesty and brutal honesty. It is exactly what is needed, I don't want anything sugar-coated at all.
I appreciate the time and support you all have spent to respond to me a stranger, who is definitely in needs of resources and tools.
Sometimes when you hear "enabling" it sounds trite or cliche, but I truly have gotten the sense from all of you who have gone down this road.
I would be grateful for any other comments.
Thank you
I appreciate the time and support you all have spent to respond to me a stranger, who is definitely in needs of resources and tools.
Sometimes when you hear "enabling" it sounds trite or cliche, but I truly have gotten the sense from all of you who have gone down this road.
I would be grateful for any other comments.
Thank you
Occasional poor taste poster
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,542
Welcome to SR M-man. I found this post to be one of the most valuable and I can tell you from experience it will produce results. Both from the addicts and loved ones perspective.
10 Ways Family Members Can Help a Loved One with a Drug or Alcohol Problem
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ad.php?t=89886
10 Ways Family Members Can Help a Loved One with a Drug or Alcohol Problem
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ad.php?t=89886
Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: CA
Posts: 10,681
Hello Muffinman,
I helped my son for 10 years and it didn't do an ounce of good. Nothing changed. He kept repeating the same mistakes over and over again. His alcoholism got progressively worse and finally it dawned on me that I needed help. He was killing himself and nothing I did worked.
In the past 4 years I have jumped in twice to help him. Both times he was suicidal and I had him 5150'd for mental health treatment. The last time was just a week ago. He is back home and can't pay his rent or his bills. I will not pay them for him. His cell phone is broken and I will not pay to have it fixed. He will be without a phone. He was just sober for 7 months and started drinking again. He lost his job due to his drinking so he needs to pay the consequences of his choices.
This is the first year I have actually seen him want to quit drinking. I believe it is because he is tired of working though his own consequences. Jail for a DUI, homeless, job losses, relationship problems, mental hospitals, medical issues, family members insisting on no contact, etc.. "Sick and tired" are motivating him to make changes. He is willing to get counseling now. That's a first for him.
I probably break the rules in a few ways.
I will give him food if he is hungry.
I pay his co-pay for medication only.
I also pay for his medical insurance. It gives me peace of mind. I got it last year when he was showing signs of liver disease. I do not want to be in a situation where he needs treatment and can't get it. I also want him to have mental health and addiction treatment available to him.
These are the things I don't do.
Pay his rent
Pay his bills
Give him money
Let him live with me
Bail him out of jail
Pay for a lawyer
Help him get a car
Pay his car insurance
Pay his tickets
Lie for him
Communicate with others for him
Give him rides to run his errands
I stay away from him when he is drinking. I keep verbal communication open if he treats me respectfully. I hang up on him if he doesn't. I don't let him dump his problems on me. I'm not his trash can. I will talk to him if he is taking responsibility for his problems and working toward a solution.
I try to treat him with respect. I don't always succeed, but I try.
There is no guarantee that they will seek recovery when we don't enable, but it gives them a better chance. I got just as sick as my son was and there was a point when we were both going under. I had to make a choice to let go and survive myself. I couldn't save him, but I could save myself. Even with that I still start going under in a crisis and need all the support I can get to get my boundaries back in place and my emotions stable. I forgot everything I learned last week and had to rely on others to help me remember. We can relapse just as hard and just as fast as they do.
Here is a link that will help.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...rsonality.html
I helped my son for 10 years and it didn't do an ounce of good. Nothing changed. He kept repeating the same mistakes over and over again. His alcoholism got progressively worse and finally it dawned on me that I needed help. He was killing himself and nothing I did worked.
In the past 4 years I have jumped in twice to help him. Both times he was suicidal and I had him 5150'd for mental health treatment. The last time was just a week ago. He is back home and can't pay his rent or his bills. I will not pay them for him. His cell phone is broken and I will not pay to have it fixed. He will be without a phone. He was just sober for 7 months and started drinking again. He lost his job due to his drinking so he needs to pay the consequences of his choices.
This is the first year I have actually seen him want to quit drinking. I believe it is because he is tired of working though his own consequences. Jail for a DUI, homeless, job losses, relationship problems, mental hospitals, medical issues, family members insisting on no contact, etc.. "Sick and tired" are motivating him to make changes. He is willing to get counseling now. That's a first for him.
I probably break the rules in a few ways.
I will give him food if he is hungry.
I pay his co-pay for medication only.
I also pay for his medical insurance. It gives me peace of mind. I got it last year when he was showing signs of liver disease. I do not want to be in a situation where he needs treatment and can't get it. I also want him to have mental health and addiction treatment available to him.
These are the things I don't do.
Pay his rent
Pay his bills
Give him money
Let him live with me
Bail him out of jail
Pay for a lawyer
Help him get a car
Pay his car insurance
Pay his tickets
Lie for him
Communicate with others for him
Give him rides to run his errands
I stay away from him when he is drinking. I keep verbal communication open if he treats me respectfully. I hang up on him if he doesn't. I don't let him dump his problems on me. I'm not his trash can. I will talk to him if he is taking responsibility for his problems and working toward a solution.
I try to treat him with respect. I don't always succeed, but I try.
There is no guarantee that they will seek recovery when we don't enable, but it gives them a better chance. I got just as sick as my son was and there was a point when we were both going under. I had to make a choice to let go and survive myself. I couldn't save him, but I could save myself. Even with that I still start going under in a crisis and need all the support I can get to get my boundaries back in place and my emotions stable. I forgot everything I learned last week and had to rely on others to help me remember. We can relapse just as hard and just as fast as they do.
Here is a link that will help.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...rsonality.html
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