Just kinda thinking out loud
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,358
Just kinda thinking out loud
Today is my parent's 60th wedding anniversary!!!! Wow - that'a a long time!
I asked them what their secret was for staying together for all of these years. They said they weren't telling.
I took them out to dinner to celebrate. It was the right thing to do, and, I wanted to do it. But looking at how they interact with each other, well, let's just say that I understand more and more why I 'was' like I 'was'.
My Mom has alzheimers and the burden, for lack of a better term, for her care has all fallen on my Dad. Now I'm beginning to wonder that he may be showing signs of it too.
I honestly don't understand though how they've stayed together for so long. They are both so negative, rude to each other, yell at each other, and it seems at times like they hate each other. I would think that maybe it's just because they are getting older, they have less patience, and are bored by the same ole, same ole, day to day. But to be honest, they've always been like this, as far back as I can remember.
Although I do give them credit for having the stamina to reach 60 years of marriage, in some respects I really wonder if that's as wonderful of an achivement as some might think. Part of me tends to see it as it was 60 years of a severely unhealthy relationship. God, that's a looooong time to suffer. But, maybe that's their choice, or maybe they never knew they had a choice.
I love my parents, however I have had to severly limit my time with them for my own mental health. And yet, I feel guilty. They need help with housework desparately. It's not just messy, it's unhealthy and unsafe. Magazines and newspapers piled up in the hallway. My Mom already has enough trouble just walking. The kitchen is disgusting. The pots and pans should be replaced they are so offensive. I offered to hire a maid service to come in and do a thorough cleaning of the downstairs for them for their anniversary. My father refused it. He thought it would be too much work for him before they got there. Whatever that meant. I told them I would be there when the maids were cleaning to oversee things, and was flat out told that I'd just make a mess of things. SIGH. I dropped the issue as my father repeatedly changed the subject. I told him that I'd give him time to think on it, and I'll bring it up again.
I clean when I can, but they have let the house go so badly, I can't even keep up with it all. My brother is a couple hours away and my sister is out of state, so there's no help there.
I know that generally speaking, I shouldn't interfere with someone else's choices they make for themselves, but at what point does a child not interfere with aging parent issues? At what point is it inflicting my will (as a codie) on someone else vs. helping someone with something that they are no longer capable of doing for themselves?
I guess I'm not sure if I force the issue, do I have a right to, or, is that just another dimension of my codienss rearing it's ugly head again??
I'm stuck...don't know what the 'right' thing to do is anymore. Any input would be greatly appreciated.
I asked them what their secret was for staying together for all of these years. They said they weren't telling.
I took them out to dinner to celebrate. It was the right thing to do, and, I wanted to do it. But looking at how they interact with each other, well, let's just say that I understand more and more why I 'was' like I 'was'.
My Mom has alzheimers and the burden, for lack of a better term, for her care has all fallen on my Dad. Now I'm beginning to wonder that he may be showing signs of it too.
I honestly don't understand though how they've stayed together for so long. They are both so negative, rude to each other, yell at each other, and it seems at times like they hate each other. I would think that maybe it's just because they are getting older, they have less patience, and are bored by the same ole, same ole, day to day. But to be honest, they've always been like this, as far back as I can remember.
Although I do give them credit for having the stamina to reach 60 years of marriage, in some respects I really wonder if that's as wonderful of an achivement as some might think. Part of me tends to see it as it was 60 years of a severely unhealthy relationship. God, that's a looooong time to suffer. But, maybe that's their choice, or maybe they never knew they had a choice.
I love my parents, however I have had to severly limit my time with them for my own mental health. And yet, I feel guilty. They need help with housework desparately. It's not just messy, it's unhealthy and unsafe. Magazines and newspapers piled up in the hallway. My Mom already has enough trouble just walking. The kitchen is disgusting. The pots and pans should be replaced they are so offensive. I offered to hire a maid service to come in and do a thorough cleaning of the downstairs for them for their anniversary. My father refused it. He thought it would be too much work for him before they got there. Whatever that meant. I told them I would be there when the maids were cleaning to oversee things, and was flat out told that I'd just make a mess of things. SIGH. I dropped the issue as my father repeatedly changed the subject. I told him that I'd give him time to think on it, and I'll bring it up again.
I clean when I can, but they have let the house go so badly, I can't even keep up with it all. My brother is a couple hours away and my sister is out of state, so there's no help there.
I know that generally speaking, I shouldn't interfere with someone else's choices they make for themselves, but at what point does a child not interfere with aging parent issues? At what point is it inflicting my will (as a codie) on someone else vs. helping someone with something that they are no longer capable of doing for themselves?
I guess I'm not sure if I force the issue, do I have a right to, or, is that just another dimension of my codienss rearing it's ugly head again??
I'm stuck...don't know what the 'right' thing to do is anymore. Any input would be greatly appreciated.
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Today
Posts: 6,101
We use to call my parents The Bickersons. That was an old Radio Show with Don Ameche and I can't remember the gal's name, but they fought about everything.
Mom and Dad the same way. It wasn't until they got older tho, that my sister and I started to realize that this was their way. They did indeed love each other to the max. Their fighting stimulated each other to 'keep going' so to speak.
When my Dad passed in Oct. of 2000, my mother, without realizing it started her own 'downhill' decline. Oh we tried, how we tried, but you could see it happening, and in Feb 2004 she too passed and I'm sure is now again happy cause she is with Dad.
Their way was not my way. The last years of Dad's life, he was getting sicker and sicker, but she she took care of him, and got people in to help, and fought with doctors, and the HMO, etc. But would not do it for herself.
When daddy passed they had been married 56 years. Their fighting with each other, and their bigotry, and their very opinionated statement are what made THEM happy. So be it.
As to your parents situation, yes do bring it up again, and again if need be. Might I suggest that you check with your mom's Dr. and see if he will order some 'home assistance." With most insurance including Medicare, 'home assistance if ordered by a licensed physician" is paid for. Also because of thier age and infirmities you might want to check with your State's Elderly Programs. A Social Worker can do a lot to get them some assistance (yes including keeping the house clean, laundry, helping with the shopping, helping with the meals, bathing, etc). The SW will usually be very familiar on how to get around red tape, and not be put on hold to wait with some agency, lol.
Just some suggestions. I did home health care thru an agency until I decided to go "private home care of the terminally ill and totally incapacitated" because I kept getting so many calls from referring Doctors.
JMHO. God Blesd your folks for 60 years of marriage!!!!!
Love and (((((to all))))),
Mom and Dad the same way. It wasn't until they got older tho, that my sister and I started to realize that this was their way. They did indeed love each other to the max. Their fighting stimulated each other to 'keep going' so to speak.
When my Dad passed in Oct. of 2000, my mother, without realizing it started her own 'downhill' decline. Oh we tried, how we tried, but you could see it happening, and in Feb 2004 she too passed and I'm sure is now again happy cause she is with Dad.
Their way was not my way. The last years of Dad's life, he was getting sicker and sicker, but she she took care of him, and got people in to help, and fought with doctors, and the HMO, etc. But would not do it for herself.
When daddy passed they had been married 56 years. Their fighting with each other, and their bigotry, and their very opinionated statement are what made THEM happy. So be it.
As to your parents situation, yes do bring it up again, and again if need be. Might I suggest that you check with your mom's Dr. and see if he will order some 'home assistance." With most insurance including Medicare, 'home assistance if ordered by a licensed physician" is paid for. Also because of thier age and infirmities you might want to check with your State's Elderly Programs. A Social Worker can do a lot to get them some assistance (yes including keeping the house clean, laundry, helping with the shopping, helping with the meals, bathing, etc). The SW will usually be very familiar on how to get around red tape, and not be put on hold to wait with some agency, lol.
Just some suggestions. I did home health care thru an agency until I decided to go "private home care of the terminally ill and totally incapacitated" because I kept getting so many calls from referring Doctors.
JMHO. God Blesd your folks for 60 years of marriage!!!!!
Love and (((((to all))))),
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 3,054
I would say get involved but look after your own mental health while you do it.
If I took out all the personal aspects of your post it leaves an elderly man caring for a seriously (and distressingly) ill spouse - however independent he may 'feel' he should be eventually he will need help.
Re the more personal issues I think it might help to try and see his perspective before trying to persaude him to yours. Perhaps he feels ashamed therefore would have to work very hard before the house was seen by a cleaner? Ask him how he sees it and LISTEN (something that's hard for me when I want to move things along to MY bit/suggestion/view). Look for compromise so that you can best use the time you have, perhaps working with him to shift some of the backlog BEFORE a cleaner makes ONE trial visit - at least that gets them through the door!
One thing I'm I really believe is that he's going to be very distressed, as a healthy adult do you remember my sheer distress at D's odd behaviour? He's not going to know what he should tolerate from her and where the lines are, he doesn't know how fast it will get worse, he won't always know what is her and what is alzheimers, he won't always know if he should or how he can keep her safe. Under that kind of stress I reckon most people would show real cracks so although keeping an eye on it is good I wouldn't be quick to think his problems are alzheimers. To give you an example in a session with D's GP hospitalisation was suggested as the next step, we got chnace to ask any questions etc etc. By the time I got out I'd forgotten most of what said except that hospital was the next step - I hadn't even thought to ask what would actually happen, would it be forced? How long? Who would make the decision and when? Was there a place? ALL the important questions and NONE of them came to mind. Details like the name of the place went in and out my head like wind through a sieve!! If I had been 60+ I think most people would have been concerned whether I had alzheimers!! I remember posting here about how the house had got dirtier and dirtier while I dealt with only the biggest things of the day, or just sat and didn't do it because it didn't seem to matter.
To know there's going to be no 'cure' is something I didn't have to face, I only had to live with MH problems for a short time, but in that time I lost count of how many times I posted that it was as bad if not worse than the drinking.
They will need support - anyone who suggests you knowing that is sickness probably needs more help than they do!
If I took out all the personal aspects of your post it leaves an elderly man caring for a seriously (and distressingly) ill spouse - however independent he may 'feel' he should be eventually he will need help.
Re the more personal issues I think it might help to try and see his perspective before trying to persaude him to yours. Perhaps he feels ashamed therefore would have to work very hard before the house was seen by a cleaner? Ask him how he sees it and LISTEN (something that's hard for me when I want to move things along to MY bit/suggestion/view). Look for compromise so that you can best use the time you have, perhaps working with him to shift some of the backlog BEFORE a cleaner makes ONE trial visit - at least that gets them through the door!
One thing I'm I really believe is that he's going to be very distressed, as a healthy adult do you remember my sheer distress at D's odd behaviour? He's not going to know what he should tolerate from her and where the lines are, he doesn't know how fast it will get worse, he won't always know what is her and what is alzheimers, he won't always know if he should or how he can keep her safe. Under that kind of stress I reckon most people would show real cracks so although keeping an eye on it is good I wouldn't be quick to think his problems are alzheimers. To give you an example in a session with D's GP hospitalisation was suggested as the next step, we got chnace to ask any questions etc etc. By the time I got out I'd forgotten most of what said except that hospital was the next step - I hadn't even thought to ask what would actually happen, would it be forced? How long? Who would make the decision and when? Was there a place? ALL the important questions and NONE of them came to mind. Details like the name of the place went in and out my head like wind through a sieve!! If I had been 60+ I think most people would have been concerned whether I had alzheimers!! I remember posting here about how the house had got dirtier and dirtier while I dealt with only the biggest things of the day, or just sat and didn't do it because it didn't seem to matter.
To know there's going to be no 'cure' is something I didn't have to face, I only had to live with MH problems for a short time, but in that time I lost count of how many times I posted that it was as bad if not worse than the drinking.
They will need support - anyone who suggests you knowing that is sickness probably needs more help than they do!
Alcohol is a cruel mistress!!!
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: crownpoint newyork
Posts: 820
ICU, my in-laws were like that too, and my MIL loved to stir the pot. It was insane to watch them. I have cared for elderly folks when I was nursing so what i suggest is that u call your county social services. If u don't want to be the "badguy" with your parents they will stop by really casually and access the situation. Their are people they call homemakers who pretty much will clean, organize, run errands. Than their are CNA who are certified, they can do alot of household work and can assist with bathing. We having visiting nurses who our LPN's and RN's. Alot of info but there are so many options. Is ur Mom on any of the new meds because they can really help those with alzheimers. I would not suggest going it alone. I cared for my grandmother until her dying day with no help from other family and burnout doesn't even beginning to describe it. Before they become real infirm I would get some help in place. Just my opinion, but as a nurse I wanted to throw out some ideas.
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Join Date: Jan 2006
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I'm on my way out the door as my Dad is going for an all day stress test and I need to spend the day with my Mom; she can't be left alone. I guess I'll have an opportunity to clean while I'm there.
Just wanted to say thanks for the input, and I'll read the replies in depth and respond tonight when I get back.
Just wanted to say thanks for the input, and I'll read the replies in depth and respond tonight when I get back.
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,358
Thank you Laurie, Equus, and Reader for your input. You have given me much to think about.
I walked a day in my father's shoes yesterday as I stayed with my Mom, and cleaned just 'one' room of their house while my Dad was having his stress test. I was totally exhausted by the time I got home, so I can only imagine what toll it must take on him day after day, week after week, etc.
Recently I've taken a walk down memory lane and dealt with some childhood issues that kept me pretty much out of their lives while I sorted through some lingering emotions. Although we did get together for mother's day and it went pretty well.
Being at their house was a day full of triggers for me. Every room I went through brought back some unpleasant memories. Although, with all the work I have done with this issue, I didn't 'react' emotionally like I used to. I guess I've done my work successfully. I'm glad I have just a little resentment left when compared to how much I resented them just a short time ago.
I can now see, and truly believe they did the best they could with the knowledge that they had. I'm not saying they were right, or I agreed with them, but, I can forgive.
Getting back to the main topic, I'm not sure how I'm going to step in while preserving their dignity, not overstepping my bounds, etc. They really do need help. My father is still dead set against having a cleaning service come in. I'll just have to do it myself, one room at a time per week. It's that bad! Additionally, if my Dad won't let a cleaning service come in, he certainly won't let a health aid come in. This is my issue. Help is needed, they won't allow outsiders to come in, so, in my mind, I have to do it.
I was just concerned that in my 'codieness' I would go in there, take control, knowing what is best for them, and all that that implies. As of yesterday, I realize this is not a codie issue.....although it shares similar characteristics. My parents need of help is not really due to any actions on their own as in alcoholism, but rather just a component of the aging process. There's a difference! I needed to be clear on that.
Thanks for letting me ramble on this kinda of OT. It's helping me to better sort through what I should and shouldn't do.
I walked a day in my father's shoes yesterday as I stayed with my Mom, and cleaned just 'one' room of their house while my Dad was having his stress test. I was totally exhausted by the time I got home, so I can only imagine what toll it must take on him day after day, week after week, etc.
Recently I've taken a walk down memory lane and dealt with some childhood issues that kept me pretty much out of their lives while I sorted through some lingering emotions. Although we did get together for mother's day and it went pretty well.
Being at their house was a day full of triggers for me. Every room I went through brought back some unpleasant memories. Although, with all the work I have done with this issue, I didn't 'react' emotionally like I used to. I guess I've done my work successfully. I'm glad I have just a little resentment left when compared to how much I resented them just a short time ago.
I can now see, and truly believe they did the best they could with the knowledge that they had. I'm not saying they were right, or I agreed with them, but, I can forgive.
Getting back to the main topic, I'm not sure how I'm going to step in while preserving their dignity, not overstepping my bounds, etc. They really do need help. My father is still dead set against having a cleaning service come in. I'll just have to do it myself, one room at a time per week. It's that bad! Additionally, if my Dad won't let a cleaning service come in, he certainly won't let a health aid come in. This is my issue. Help is needed, they won't allow outsiders to come in, so, in my mind, I have to do it.
I was just concerned that in my 'codieness' I would go in there, take control, knowing what is best for them, and all that that implies. As of yesterday, I realize this is not a codie issue.....although it shares similar characteristics. My parents need of help is not really due to any actions on their own as in alcoholism, but rather just a component of the aging process. There's a difference! I needed to be clear on that.
Thanks for letting me ramble on this kinda of OT. It's helping me to better sort through what I should and shouldn't do.
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Join Date: Jan 2006
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Equus,
BTW, I thought of you and D yesterday! I was in the backyard at my parent's house looking at all of the flowers, rose bushes, peonies, etc.
Tucked inside one of the rose bushes was a robin's next with three baby birds in it. One was sleeping and the other two had their pointed yellow-orange beaks open, waiting to be fed.
Luckily I brought my camera and snapped a few shots. It's doubtful how the pix will turn out as all I had was a disposable camera, but, more importantly, I enjoyed the moment! That's when I thought of you and D and all the cool pix you shared with us here. Kinda felt like you two were right there with me somehow.
BTW, I thought of you and D yesterday! I was in the backyard at my parent's house looking at all of the flowers, rose bushes, peonies, etc.
Tucked inside one of the rose bushes was a robin's next with three baby birds in it. One was sleeping and the other two had their pointed yellow-orange beaks open, waiting to be fed.
Luckily I brought my camera and snapped a few shots. It's doubtful how the pix will turn out as all I had was a disposable camera, but, more importantly, I enjoyed the moment! That's when I thought of you and D and all the cool pix you shared with us here. Kinda felt like you two were right there with me somehow.
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Lake Luzerne
Posts: 1,786
In 1993, I was nursing in another hospital. I was pasing a room and saw this beautiful bouqet of lavendar roses. I backed up and went in the room. I took a wiff and they were the prettiest roses I had ever seen. The elderly lady in the bed said, "aren't they lovely?" I said they were and asked her who had sent them. She said her husband brought them to her to celebrate their 70th wedding anniversary. I said 70th!, wow, that's great, congradulations! I asked her what was her secret? She said, she wouldn't tell. She said, may I ask you a question? I said "sure". She said , tell me the truth, do you thinkit will last? We both laughed, and I think she answered my question.
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