Another thread about SR F&F! Meeeeep!
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Another thread about SR F&F! Meeeeep!
Maybe this is a mistake, maybe it isn't - I hope I can do it thoughtfully.
There's been lots of reference here to looking back at old posts and I've done a little of that myself, I've had quite a bumpy ride here but loads of support! I've ended up with a huge bucket of affection for the people here and a confidence that there are real feelings of closeness and a strong desire for things to go well for me. It was a bumpy ride though.
Honestly, from the bottom of my heart - being told what D was 'really' trying to do never helped, nor did being told who he was. It didn't help to be told what I was 'really' trying to do either - mostly that was just plain wrong, sorry but it was wrong.
What helped the most was encouragment for the things I started to do for me, like going to counselling. What helped was being encouraged to have the confidence to make VERY difficult decisions which at the hardest time seemed almost daily. Practical help like Minnie's links to non mainstream insurers made a difference in our situation. The most helpful thing of all was when people asked another question if something seemed odd rather than imposing their own answer and defending their view to the hilt.
Some people caught on to what I really needed when I really needed it and I think it was because they listened very carefully and ACCEPTED my perspective of my own situation, it didn't have to be a perfect perception but it's the one we all work with. Especially over the internet where friendships aren't years long and we can't SEE each other, or each other's partners - we have to respect and listen to how people view there own situation.
I might get flamed for this bit - but I think we get too wrapped up in alcoholism, it isn't ever the whole picture. We can share experience but we can't assume our experiences are the same, we can't assume outcomes will be the same, so maybe the most important part is to listen.
Unless somebody's safety is at risk I think advising they go or stay with a partner is to be far too wrapped up in someone else's affairs - nobody needs to be told that, I think what we all need is to know how to make decisions like that for ourselves.
SR has had such an impact on my life - I think on our life, it's been a good impact, many peeps round these parts really did change my life for the better, mainly by listening. There were a minority unable to hear much beyond what they thought and in amongst lots of good stuff there were times I got advice which could seriously have put D at risk, advice that was confidently given despite me saying it was the opposite to what his doc was saying. I should have learned to use the ignore button sooner, I should have learned to take what I wanted and leave the rest - but there were days I didn't manage that and on a couple of occasions what was offered as help just added to hurt.
For all the good things this place has given I'm so absolutely glad I stayed but I very nearly didn't.
I love the support I see shared here, I find the confident advice giving a little difficult sometimes - I find judgments of motive very difficult.
Overall - I took a different path, I don't share many of the beliefs held here, I didn't accept the 12 steps, I made my own decisions and the amount I've gained from SR is a testiment to the open mindedness and tolerance of the majority of members.
There's been lots of reference here to looking back at old posts and I've done a little of that myself, I've had quite a bumpy ride here but loads of support! I've ended up with a huge bucket of affection for the people here and a confidence that there are real feelings of closeness and a strong desire for things to go well for me. It was a bumpy ride though.
Honestly, from the bottom of my heart - being told what D was 'really' trying to do never helped, nor did being told who he was. It didn't help to be told what I was 'really' trying to do either - mostly that was just plain wrong, sorry but it was wrong.
What helped the most was encouragment for the things I started to do for me, like going to counselling. What helped was being encouraged to have the confidence to make VERY difficult decisions which at the hardest time seemed almost daily. Practical help like Minnie's links to non mainstream insurers made a difference in our situation. The most helpful thing of all was when people asked another question if something seemed odd rather than imposing their own answer and defending their view to the hilt.
Some people caught on to what I really needed when I really needed it and I think it was because they listened very carefully and ACCEPTED my perspective of my own situation, it didn't have to be a perfect perception but it's the one we all work with. Especially over the internet where friendships aren't years long and we can't SEE each other, or each other's partners - we have to respect and listen to how people view there own situation.
I might get flamed for this bit - but I think we get too wrapped up in alcoholism, it isn't ever the whole picture. We can share experience but we can't assume our experiences are the same, we can't assume outcomes will be the same, so maybe the most important part is to listen.
Unless somebody's safety is at risk I think advising they go or stay with a partner is to be far too wrapped up in someone else's affairs - nobody needs to be told that, I think what we all need is to know how to make decisions like that for ourselves.
SR has had such an impact on my life - I think on our life, it's been a good impact, many peeps round these parts really did change my life for the better, mainly by listening. There were a minority unable to hear much beyond what they thought and in amongst lots of good stuff there were times I got advice which could seriously have put D at risk, advice that was confidently given despite me saying it was the opposite to what his doc was saying. I should have learned to use the ignore button sooner, I should have learned to take what I wanted and leave the rest - but there were days I didn't manage that and on a couple of occasions what was offered as help just added to hurt.
For all the good things this place has given I'm so absolutely glad I stayed but I very nearly didn't.
I love the support I see shared here, I find the confident advice giving a little difficult sometimes - I find judgments of motive very difficult.
Overall - I took a different path, I don't share many of the beliefs held here, I didn't accept the 12 steps, I made my own decisions and the amount I've gained from SR is a testiment to the open mindedness and tolerance of the majority of members.
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Join Date: Jan 2006
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You raise a lot of good points Equus!
After reading your post a few things came to mind. The first is that 'I' need to remember to examine my motives before I reply. I need to ask myself am I encouraging them to do what's best for them, or are my experiences tainting that?
I truly believe we all want to help each other! Some of us do this in different ways. I 'strive' (don't always succeed) to 'plant a seed', or give 'food for thought' to get others to think about what their options might be. I know I need to work on that. At least I can say now that I am aware of it.
Another thing that came to mind is that it's a struggle for me at times to not 'react' from an emotional point of view. I've done that here several times and have regretted it.
It sometimes is difficult to offer advice or suggestions as we are not living other people's lives. They are. Each situation is similiar in some respects, while being different at the same time.
I see one of the purposes of SR to be a 'safe haven' for those that might not have anyone else to share with for the moment. It's good that this place is used as a maybe a first or a supplemental step, but I don't think it should be the only tool used.
I like this post Equus. It inspired me to think - to look at my own motives and behaviors. Have to admit, I don't always like what I see coming from within me.
After reading your post a few things came to mind. The first is that 'I' need to remember to examine my motives before I reply. I need to ask myself am I encouraging them to do what's best for them, or are my experiences tainting that?
I truly believe we all want to help each other! Some of us do this in different ways. I 'strive' (don't always succeed) to 'plant a seed', or give 'food for thought' to get others to think about what their options might be. I know I need to work on that. At least I can say now that I am aware of it.
Another thing that came to mind is that it's a struggle for me at times to not 'react' from an emotional point of view. I've done that here several times and have regretted it.
It sometimes is difficult to offer advice or suggestions as we are not living other people's lives. They are. Each situation is similiar in some respects, while being different at the same time.
I see one of the purposes of SR to be a 'safe haven' for those that might not have anyone else to share with for the moment. It's good that this place is used as a maybe a first or a supplemental step, but I don't think it should be the only tool used.
I like this post Equus. It inspired me to think - to look at my own motives and behaviors. Have to admit, I don't always like what I see coming from within me.
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Another thing that came to mind is that it's a struggle for me at times to not 'react' from an emotional point of view.
the girl can't help it
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: splendraville
Posts: 5,599
(Eq)
You are a strong person. I know I maybe one of the ones who have frustrated you. You have helped me to find more compassion for my H. Sometimes I get a little lost in your post cause my menopausal mind forgets the first part of what you said and maybe remembers something in the middle while repling to something at the end...
When you first came here I think I liked to mess with your mind a little not to hurt you but, because I know you analize a lot and I know you are strong and you do remind me a little of myself when I was younger. I know I need contraversy to help me find the answer that I am looking for and if everyone just agrees with me on every point I will get bogged down and not stand up to even myself. Maybe you are a little like this too...I loved debating things with you it got my blood circulating several times and when I think of you, you always make me smile!!!!!
You are a strong person. I know I maybe one of the ones who have frustrated you. You have helped me to find more compassion for my H. Sometimes I get a little lost in your post cause my menopausal mind forgets the first part of what you said and maybe remembers something in the middle while repling to something at the end...
When you first came here I think I liked to mess with your mind a little not to hurt you but, because I know you analize a lot and I know you are strong and you do remind me a little of myself when I was younger. I know I need contraversy to help me find the answer that I am looking for and if everyone just agrees with me on every point I will get bogged down and not stand up to even myself. Maybe you are a little like this too...I loved debating things with you it got my blood circulating several times and when I think of you, you always make me smile!!!!!
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It isn't about any person - it's about what helped and what didn't. I was part of that process, I'd latch onto a response that hurt and miss 3 that gave support!! What I'm trying to say here was that I didn't do that deliberately, I did it because feeling hurt seemed so big at the time and I reacted from my emotions too. I've done a fair bit of apologising on SR because I've needed to.
I don't enjoy to argue personally, a subject is different but not about who any of us are - maybe that's because I'm not as tough as old boots, I'm as soft as poo! Things like that take longer to learn over the internet, we talk about such personal things and try to help and support each other without the histories of old friendships and the knowing which comes from being together.
Helping each other this way - with just typed words isn't easy and I don't think any of us will ever stop learning if we want to.
I don't enjoy to argue personally, a subject is different but not about who any of us are - maybe that's because I'm not as tough as old boots, I'm as soft as poo! Things like that take longer to learn over the internet, we talk about such personal things and try to help and support each other without the histories of old friendships and the knowing which comes from being together.
Helping each other this way - with just typed words isn't easy and I don't think any of us will ever stop learning if we want to.
One brief hour...
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Anywhere, USA
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Good morning ((Equus)). I see and understand your point of view completely. For me, SR has been the greatest support in that I finally found a place in which "I wasn't alone." I continue to see that repeatedly typed here by people posting for the first time, "It's nice to know I'm not alone." It is so important for us all to listen and offer as much support as we can possibly give w/o being overly judgemental. There is much hope here for all of us- whether we learn to live peacefully with the A in our life or whether or not we choose to leave. That is such a personal choice that surrounded by details and history that none of really know unless we are that person! The important thing is for everyone to realize that they do have a choice in the matter and there are ways to find happiness again.
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Green,green grass of home
Posts: 600
Hey equues,in Al-anon,we are advised to not give out advice.Of course i dont have my book here to quote this,lol.Was it really wrong for those who advised you?Hasnt all of it those who gave advise to you and those who listened hasnt it all given you insights?Through those good folks who are doing the best that they can,same as i,you have learned that giving advice was not helpful,in your case.Yet it has been very helpful to others.Folks in program have in the past given me some very harmful advice.It was harmful to me,when i followed their advice.But thats on me,not them.I chose to follow their advise.Yupper my road was made harder,more difficult because of those who believe they have the answers to my life.But i take responsibility,here,i let them,until i said no.But all in all,it made me stronger in what i believe.it helped to form me to be the person that i am today.So,all in all it was all good,and as it should be.Having now experienced this,i can say,what my needs are.To say to folks,i need someone to listen.This is my responsibility to tell folks,my needs.I learned this by not telling them my needs,lol.And yes some folks will ask for advise,nothing wrong with that.They will seek councel from others,i do at times to.its good to hear from other prescetives.But the bottom line,is what i chose to follow.I dont have to follow others advise if it makes no sence to me.If im looking for approval i will be forever lost,because im not going to get it.There are folks who still think they have the answers to my life.And yup they are going to keep telling me about it.
Live and let live.I know they dont,lol,so it doesnt bother me anymore,nor is their advise harmful to me,because i chose to not let it be harmful to me,today.I learned this from being hurt.Great lesson..I personally wont tell others to not give out advise.To each their own.Some advise has been very helpful to others,and
im not interferring in this.When i sponsor i let the other person work through their issues,using the 12 steps.Will share my es and hope.Some sponsors have taken their roll way out there.Will tell their sponces,dont do this or that.thing is that this arrangement is agreeable to these 2 folks.Who am i to say,its wrong?Im no-body.If i feel i need to agrue,with folks in what im doing,this is on me to,not them.Im aguring becaue im looking for approval,suuport,when others just dont support nor do they agree with what im doing.And thats ok.Thats on me to.Do i need support/approval for everything that im thinking,doing?This is my issue not theirs.They have a right to not support me,if they think im of track.Some folks will support others no matter what their thoughts and feeling, are about an issueWhat road one goes on,and some wont,or just cant...Its not effective for me to tell them who they should be,and what they
should do.Whats effective is to tell them my needs.Its their choice then to do as i ask,or not.
Different strokes for the many different folks.What was harmful to me,brought another insights,and was good.Im learning in this to live life on lifes terms,no longer trying to control,others,as i dont want them controling me,lol.
Live and let live.I know they dont,lol,so it doesnt bother me anymore,nor is their advise harmful to me,because i chose to not let it be harmful to me,today.I learned this from being hurt.Great lesson..I personally wont tell others to not give out advise.To each their own.Some advise has been very helpful to others,and
im not interferring in this.When i sponsor i let the other person work through their issues,using the 12 steps.Will share my es and hope.Some sponsors have taken their roll way out there.Will tell their sponces,dont do this or that.thing is that this arrangement is agreeable to these 2 folks.Who am i to say,its wrong?Im no-body.If i feel i need to agrue,with folks in what im doing,this is on me to,not them.Im aguring becaue im looking for approval,suuport,when others just dont support nor do they agree with what im doing.And thats ok.Thats on me to.Do i need support/approval for everything that im thinking,doing?This is my issue not theirs.They have a right to not support me,if they think im of track.Some folks will support others no matter what their thoughts and feeling, are about an issueWhat road one goes on,and some wont,or just cant...Its not effective for me to tell them who they should be,and what they
should do.Whats effective is to tell them my needs.Its their choice then to do as i ask,or not.
Different strokes for the many different folks.What was harmful to me,brought another insights,and was good.Im learning in this to live life on lifes terms,no longer trying to control,others,as i dont want them controling me,lol.
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GH - You have a really strong sense of live and let live - when it comes to people I agree but not always with how we act. Some actions are best left to go quietly mouldy - for example reacting with anger to a single response and ignoring many other helpful ones. (Something I was a little slow to learn!). I have a philosophy of trying to treat others as I'd like to be treated - I'd like this kind of feedback after the storm so I offered it here.
In my opinion some advice did have real risk attached but that was the exception not the norm. It's not always easy to understand somebody else's position and 8 months ago my position was hard, no I wasn't that sure of myself and yep I probably did need support - not approval from everyone, not a demand everyone answer every thread, just some support when they did. I'm saying that because it's what I remember - I can't claim I stood each day squarely on my own feet, some days I was just plain scared and confused. Things have changed a lot since then but I do remember.
It's so hard to describe - but I think it matters because I can identify when I see the same thing sometimes, just because I got through and stayed for all the good that's here it doesn't mean forgetting that sometimes that was a close thing.
In my opinion some advice did have real risk attached but that was the exception not the norm. It's not always easy to understand somebody else's position and 8 months ago my position was hard, no I wasn't that sure of myself and yep I probably did need support - not approval from everyone, not a demand everyone answer every thread, just some support when they did. I'm saying that because it's what I remember - I can't claim I stood each day squarely on my own feet, some days I was just plain scared and confused. Things have changed a lot since then but I do remember.
It's so hard to describe - but I think it matters because I can identify when I see the same thing sometimes, just because I got through and stayed for all the good that's here it doesn't mean forgetting that sometimes that was a close thing.
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Join Date: Apr 2006
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Hi again equus,please know that i do understand.It took me months,to get over,the issue im referring to in my own case here.To treat others as i want to be treated.I cant conrol others to do,this with with me,or anyone in their lives.All i can do,is be the example.It was through being mistreated by others,that i learned i dont want me doing this to them.It was through folks who think they have the answers to my life,that today i can sit back,guide another through the 12 steps,and let them decide what to do.Because i know i sure dont have their answers to their lives.I dont know God,s plan for them.I know this because of the way folks treated me in my past,that painful experience.I think if i hadnt gone through this,that i too,would be one who would blab,all kinds of opinions/advise at others on what to do,and what not to do.Now these good folks from my past,i did go to them telling them all the hurt they put me through.Ya know what?They still stand by what they were teaching me,and in the awful manner that they teach?So where does this leave me?It leaves me to let go,and to live and let live.Their teachings has been helpful to others,so,,just not my cup of tea.The be-littling of another human being,which they do,is defentially not my cup of tea.Burning myself over it,never changed anyone.So i stoped.It really is by Gods, grace,that ive come through that stuff.But im stronger today for it all,through God,s grace,only.I really would have rather it had been different,and that they had been different,at the time.But hey it all ended great for me.I cant blame others,for my choices.I chose,at that time to listen,follow,allow others to treat me badly.Until i put an end to it all.I learned for the first time to say,no,more,and let them go.What a great lesson for me.And in learning this,i learn to be that example that i want to see in others.To be this myself.Today i have compassion,understanding,love,for others,because i was given none at that painful time in my life.
Im thinking here that my experience is another example of how bad things,can make good things happen?Or is that just my ego,again,lol.
Thanks for letting me share,its been healing for me.
Im thinking here that my experience is another example of how bad things,can make good things happen?Or is that just my ego,again,lol.
Thanks for letting me share,its been healing for me.
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Posts: 261
This is a great healing thread for me. I need to apply what I learn in al-anon. Not to give advice, which I cant right now.. my own situation is one of the newer ones trying to get through...I'm most greatful to see your experiences and how you handle them and go from their. Take what you can and leave the rest.... this is a great phrase I try to keep with me even in my work enviroment. Our higher power beliefs and actions may all be different, but that is how we handle our own situations.
I personally love to read the stuff going on in your lives and how you are managing to live with your alcholic. That is where I am picking p some of the best stuff ever.
I thank my GOD for stumbling into this forum. After reading some of this stuff this morning.... my horrible night last night didnt seem so bad.
thanks again for posting... all of you.
Karen
I personally love to read the stuff going on in your lives and how you are managing to live with your alcholic. That is where I am picking p some of the best stuff ever.
I thank my GOD for stumbling into this forum. After reading some of this stuff this morning.... my horrible night last night didnt seem so bad.
thanks again for posting... all of you.
Karen
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Orlando, FL
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Hi Eq,
When I first came on here I was seeking just that, advice. I hadn't gotten a sponsor and God forbid I ask for advice at Al-Anon. ( I was banged in the head with that one....didn't understand the format of the meetings....) Anywho, as they say, take what you want and leave the rest. I too can understand staring at some bad advice, forgetting to read the rest. But I guess that's up to us.
I sometimes wonder if I've traded my codependent relationship on how to fix my AB with a codependent relationship on how to fix people on SR! :-)
Nobody being likes "told" what to do, but I'll tell ya.....if my post actually says, "your opinion please" or "Please tell me what to do!" I know that I'll be in for it. And sometimes that's what I need. Basically being told to kick myself in the caboose! lol
I understand what you mean about this being an internet thing......it's so hard to determine everyone's true emotions. But I know that if I stick a piece of something out there in cyberland it's with my heart and from my experiences, if that's what's asked.
Some people caught on to what I really needed when I really needed it and I think it was because they listened very carefully and ACCEPTED my perspective of my own situation
This part really got me. You are 100% correct. We should all try to gain the other's perspective before hitting that keyboard. I'm going to remember this line. Thanks.
xoxoxo
When I first came on here I was seeking just that, advice. I hadn't gotten a sponsor and God forbid I ask for advice at Al-Anon. ( I was banged in the head with that one....didn't understand the format of the meetings....) Anywho, as they say, take what you want and leave the rest. I too can understand staring at some bad advice, forgetting to read the rest. But I guess that's up to us.
I sometimes wonder if I've traded my codependent relationship on how to fix my AB with a codependent relationship on how to fix people on SR! :-)
Nobody being likes "told" what to do, but I'll tell ya.....if my post actually says, "your opinion please" or "Please tell me what to do!" I know that I'll be in for it. And sometimes that's what I need. Basically being told to kick myself in the caboose! lol
I understand what you mean about this being an internet thing......it's so hard to determine everyone's true emotions. But I know that if I stick a piece of something out there in cyberland it's with my heart and from my experiences, if that's what's asked.
Some people caught on to what I really needed when I really needed it and I think it was because they listened very carefully and ACCEPTED my perspective of my own situation
This part really got me. You are 100% correct. We should all try to gain the other's perspective before hitting that keyboard. I'm going to remember this line. Thanks.
xoxoxo
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Some people caught on to what I really needed when I really needed it and I think it was because they listened very carefully and ACCEPTED my perspective of my own situation
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Great thread eqqus, thanx for starting it.
The only people qualified to give advice are "professionals". Doctors, lawyers, nurses, etc. This board does have professionals, and they have forums of their own. The rest of us are just experienced amateurs. Any advice or direction that is given by amateurs is simply a bit of ego getting out of control. As an amateur all that I can give is my experience, from which others may draw strength and hope.
If I am given amateur advice then it is up to _me_ to decide whether I will react emotionally or simply move on to the next poster. If I react emotionally then what I have found is an opportunity to examine my own sensitivity, and determine if perhaps _my_ ego is in need of an adjustment.
Mike :-)
The only people qualified to give advice are "professionals". Doctors, lawyers, nurses, etc. This board does have professionals, and they have forums of their own. The rest of us are just experienced amateurs. Any advice or direction that is given by amateurs is simply a bit of ego getting out of control. As an amateur all that I can give is my experience, from which others may draw strength and hope.
If I am given amateur advice then it is up to _me_ to decide whether I will react emotionally or simply move on to the next poster. If I react emotionally then what I have found is an opportunity to examine my own sensitivity, and determine if perhaps _my_ ego is in need of an adjustment.
Mike :-)
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Originally Posted by equus
Unless somebody's safety is at risk I think advising they go or stay with a partner is to be far too wrapped up in someone else's affairs - nobody needs to be told that, I think what we all need is to know how to make decisions like that for ourselves.
Sorry if I went OT. lol I just kept goint there.
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Join Date: Mar 2006
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Thanks for starting this thread equus. I try to keep my posts positive because that's how I try to live my life. Not everybody chooses to see or do things the same way I choose to and that's okay. I take what I can use and leave the rest. It's important to remember that everyone here is only human and just expessing their own opinions. It may not be perfect but I still think this forum is the best thing available when it comes to information and support for the things we are going through. I'm very grateful it's here and for all the people who keep it going.
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