Ayers1995

I AGREE I DIDN'T REALIZE TILL LATER ABOUT THE SNOW CONES YOU COULD HAVE STOPPED EVEN IF I WASN'T ALONG.
PLEASE DO NOT THROW KIDS IN MY FACE, I DON'T.

IF WE ARE NOT TOGETHER WHAT IS THERE FOR US.
YOUR NOT READY WHY?
WHAT IS IT? STOP PROCRASTINATING ABOUT WHATEVER IT IS.
WE NEED CLOSURE IF THIS IS TO BE REPAIRED

I CAN NOT DO THIS ALONE, IF WE AGREE ON COUNSELING, WE NEED TO COUNCIL TOGETHER. IN MY EYES


WE HAVE SEPARATE OPINIONS AND SOME SEPARATE PROBLEMS BUT THIS IS TRUE

YOU TOLD ME YOU WERE MOVING OUT SUNDAY AND I HELPED ALL I COULD AND DIDN'T MAKE A SCENE OR PROBLEM

I AM SAYING FRIDAY EVENING I WILL BE LOOKING FOR YOU TO COME BACK HOME. PERMANENTLY.

YOU ARE THE WORLD TO ME. I PRAY YOU DO NOT PROVE ME WRONG.
YOU HAVE PUT YOUR FOOT DOWN ON LEAVING I COMPLIED AND UNDERSTOOD FOR US, I EXPECT THE SAME FOR US NOW .


BY ALL MEANS I AM NEVER THREATENING ANYTHING, I TOLD YOU LAST NIGHT AND I MEAN I CANT BE BROKEN ANYMORE.
I AM AT MY MENTAL AND PHYSICAL LIMIT .. I AM IF YOU EVER LOVED ME YOU WILL DO THIS.

IT MAY NOT WORK BUT YOU OWE ME THIS AS I DID YOU THE TIME AWAY.


So.... What am I supposed to do?

sunshine003

ayers, you do what is best for you and your children, that is what you do. Only you know the answer as to what is best. only you know your AH. I can tell you one thing though, my therapist told me that the thing that is worst for the kids is coming and going. It is better to just STAY than to leave only to return only to leave again. You don't know what yet if he is going to change anything. at this point, from all you've said, you aren't sure if this is "it" for him or not. how could you? has he proven anything as of yet? Well, sure he has, he's proven that he won't give you guys time to work on it unless you do it his way.

You could get him back, as he is, anytime you want regardless of his threats. that is a FACT. Give yourself some time. Tell him what you want / need and then give it to yourself because he isn't going to give it to you.

Don't give into the drama of his threats. "you'll do this for me if you love me" is all I hear him saying and that's just stupid. This is not really about love, is it? If it were, then you could say if he loved you, he would stop drinking, etc.

LaTeeDa

I cannot tell you what to do. After my AH moved out (because I demanded that he move out), he tried to put pressure on me. Make up my mind, do I want him or not, do I want this marriage to work, quack, quack, quack.

Finally, I told him. You want me to make a decision right now? My decision is divorce. I do not want to make a decision yet, but if you are insisting, then that is what it is. He has not tried to pressure me since. I called his bluff. Oh, and I meant what I said and was prepared to go through with it.

I'm not saying this is what you should do, just sharing my experience.

L

denny57

What do you want to do? You did something for yourself. He is demanding you do something for him. What is he going to do for HIMSELF?

ASpouse

Odd how he doesn't mention his drinking problem? Have you made it clear that his drinking is the cause of this "riff" and you want at least a years recovery under his belt with AA and therapy before you will consider?

You must be clear as to what you want, from the sounds of your posts and his emails to you, he is confused as to what you want. Be clear, be concise and do what you say.

I have to agree with him, you could have taken the kids for snowcones, that was my first thought when I read that post "well, why didn't she just take them?". My own opinion is that you set yourself for being blamed. The kids were probably more enthused about going for the snowcones, than going with mom AND dad. Don't just blame him for disappointing the kids, in this instance you need to take some responsibility also.

sunshine003

not only that ayers, but don't let his, "i'm done if you don't come home" scare you. you were "done" when you moved out. at least you were done being treated the way you were being treated. it's hard to live by it but don't let his opinion cloud yours. don't let his reality determine yours. he doesn't mean it when he threatens and IF he does, then that's on him, not yours. you make your decisions and he makes his. you're all panicked thinking if you don't go home, he's done. let it calm you to know that simply isn't true. look at all of us here. we've all gone through what you are (i currently am) and I rarely read that someones AH really just said, "you won't come home, that's it, i'm divorcing you." and followed through with it. your AH hasn't followed through with anything, he isn't going to follow through with that either. you stay strong. stop playing the game.

sunshine003

I agree with Judy as well. You can't say, "i've told him but....." because if you told him and lived by it, there isn'ta but. You do need to be clear as to what you want. You should be making your moving back home a subject you guys do not discuss until you seem some progress, some REAL progress. when he brings it up, you STOP the conversation. he'll pitch a fit, get aggravated, etc. but big deal, you just walk away if he keeps going. it own't be long and he'll get it and see that you mean buisness.

remember, you left for a reason. also remember that right now, and I"m not saying you're oding this but I sure caught myself doing it, it probably feels good to have him begging for once. are you sure you aren't encouraging it?

Ayers1995

I agree Aspouse, I did tell the kids that we would come back after dinner for the snow cones.

I have been clear to what I want, what sparked that email was him asking for advice for his counseling appt today, and I told him to go in with an open mind. That I could see that he is trying to change, not drinking and participating with the kids.. I can see all these things while not being in the house. That I was just not ready for that.. That I was not playing games with him, and that he is the only one that has mentioned divorce or lawyers..... It was a very supportive email that I sent him and I got this in return. Now I've gotten one saying how embarrasing this all is and that he can't even look people in the eye because he's a failure to me!

ASpouse

Oh my word, I loved it when my husband begged, I felt such POWER! But then I got cocky and that backfired on me also. It's all part of the dance and I love to dance so this being non-codependent is very hard for me, however, on the flip side, it's much more peaceful where I am today. Power isn't all it's made out to be and one must be very brave and very smart to have any kind of power. Sorry ..... got off on a tangent here thinking out loud!

ASpouse

Ayers, he is asking you for advice and "tips" to keep you hooked and reeling you in, slowly.

C'mon, what kind of advice does someone need for a counselling appointment? Think about it?

No contact Ayers, that is what you need to do for awhile. Set up clear visitation with the kids and THATS IT! Maybe that will help you.

Poor baby .... he's embarrassed and ashamed to look people in the eye? Excuse me, but does this sound OK to you? Are you buying into this load of BS?

sunshine003

then if you've been clear and told hiim what you want, need then why is this still happening? why is he so confused? and why are you guys continuing to discuss it? see, you're discussing it just as much as he is. you aren't stopping it before it starts. you're getting sucked in and reacting. you need to be able to STOP before reacting. You know what I do? when I get that feeling, I come here FIRST. If I can't make it here first, I tell myself i"m going to go on with my evening and deal with it later, tomorrow, whenever. I give myself some space from it so I'm not thinking with emotions. It's hard and I catch myself slipping from time to time. But I have my boundarys in place now and I catch myself slipping and am able to stop it.

ayers, you moved out but have you truly been keeping your problems in your focus? it's so hard to do. I know, believe me I know. But since you've been gone, even now, it's all about him. what about you?

minnie

Ayers, you have said a number of times that you wanted space. May I ask how you are hoping to achieve that when you are responding to his e-mails, which are by definition invading your space?

We speak a lot here about going by the actions not the words of alcoholics. But the same goes for us too.

The hardest thing I have ever had to do in my life was maintain my boundaries when my ex was launching attack after attack on them. It was far harder than leaving him in the first place. Most people I know don't come close to even testing my boundaries, let alone try and demolish them on a daily basis. But with R, it probably took a good 10 goes at standing up to him before he got the message. And then he changed tactic, but that's for another time. 10 times? Actually it was probably more like 30 - and I am seriously not exaggerating. And I can honestly say that my boundaries were clear and the consequences happened immediately i.e. I will not speak about personal matters during a business conversation. If you do that, I will hang up the phone. You know what he would do? Ring me back to try again. So I would hang up again. And he would try again. In the end, I switched all my phones off, bar the cell phone that I got that he still doesn't have the number of. And then give me grief for hanging up on me!! Hello!! I gave you fair warning!

This is the hardest bit, Ayers. If he is serious about recovery, he will get on and do it. If he's not, he'll continue these stupid games. Either way, you will know.

Just step out of it for a bit.

Ayers1995

I keep telling him that we need to work on ourselves. He needs to work on HIM and me, ME. I haven't emailed him at all lately, I was trying to be supportive with the one I did send, b/c he already told me yesterday that he was going to tell her he won't see her again. I think he needs to. I knew that she was going to tell him I shouldn't move back, so I was again trying to prepare him for that in this visit.

I may like the begging and pleading, but in reality when he is around and talking to me I just shut down. I curl up into a ball and just listen.....when he's done... I say...I'm not ready to move back home. I am just now starting to eat again.. and stop shaking all day long. I haven't even had the da*n peace to try and sort out how I feel. He wants to help with 'my' problems. He says his are fixed...(no more drinking)...etc...

sunshine003

well, it isn't up to you to make sense of this for him. it isn't up to you to see to it that he goes to the counselor or to prepare him for the visit. you cannot control if he goes, how he responds to what she says, etc.

he is a big boy ayers. he will be just fine, I assure you, he will be. You will be too, if you give yourself a chance. something will work out, I promise you that too.

ASpouse

First off, why are you telling him anything and how many times are you going to repeat the same thing over and over? He's not listening.

So you think he needs to go to counselling and you don't want him to stop? Excuse me Ayers, does this sound right to you? You moved out and you are still telling him what to do ........ STOP IT! If he goes, he goes. If he doesn't Oh Well.

Why are you trying to prepare and soften the blow for him for whatever his counsellor tells him? Is your husband a grown up or is he a child that still has not learned how to accept the consequences of his actions? How do you know the counsellor was going to tell him that? Is she a friend of yours? Is she your counsellor?

Everything you are saying is so enabling and codependent I'm surprised you don't see it yourself when you go back and read your own posts.

You are perpetuating this circumstance ...... STOP IT! Get off and hop aboard the Reality Bus with Minnie, Me, Sunshine and the rest.

minnie

I'm going to say this again - you asked for space, he won't give it to you. Ergo, he does not respect you. I would say he still has some work to do.

But that's by the by. It doesn't matter what you think he needs - that's for him to figure out. I know you want someone else to validate your thinking and do some of the tough stuff for you - heck, I know now that the only reason I arranged couples counselling for R and I was so that I could leave and someone else could deal with the wreckage. It didn't quite work out like that, but that's knowledge after the event.

Instead of telling him, why not show him? I can't believe that you can work on yourself amidst all this drama. So, cut out the drama. When he starts talking, leave the room. When he e-mails, don't reply. When the conversation on the phone drifts from the topic of the kids, tell him you will only talk about the kids and if he continues, hang up.

He is not going to do what you want. He has a different agenda. It's YOU that has to do what YOU want.

Hon, I know I'm being pretty straight with you here. I hope you can understand that I have been there. I understand what it's like. I also understand the freedom that comes from getting some perspective on the situation. For me, I left. It is not my goal to convince everyone else to leave - I just want people to make real choices, rather than be manipulated into following the choices of someone else.

LaTeeDa

I may sound harsh, but you are still dancing the dance. You may not be living with him, but the dance goes on.

denny57

Is telling him any of this changing anything? I sent my AH one final email reply and that WAS IT. It looks like you are still trying to manipulate his actions, "I think he needs to." I'd agree with the others who say keep the contact down to the minimum - about the kids - and otherwise keep the focus on you. Good luck.

sunshine003

ayers, I was trying to say exactly what judy was saying. only, she says it better than me, LOL.

I know this is hard. I've experienced the not being able to eat, sleep, the shakey stuff, etc. It will go away if you'll do what you need to do for yourself. I PROMISE you that your ah is NOT going anywhere. He is threatening you and trying to get his way. As ASpouse said, stop doing this, you are perpetuating the circumstance. If you'd look at what you're doing to ADD to this drama, you could turn it around and start working on YOU and you'll start feeling better.

You cannot control what he is going to do. If he goes out, gets drunk and tells you he's done, then guess what? He was never going to change anyway. If he starts showing you some real progress, SHOWING you, not telling you, then MAYBE you can open the door slowly to start discussing things. But you're never going to know if you don't give it a try. First step is taking control of YOUR life, you can do it. You run your show, not him. who cares if it makes him feel bad? we're done worrying about his reality remember? YOU have one of those also.

denny57

This makes me uneasy, because it sets up an expectation that things will go a certain way if ayers just hangs in there, or practices tough love, etc. I asked my AH for a separation. He still has not admitted he has a problem. And he filed for divorce even though he claimed he didn't want one. It happens. So it's important to do what you do knowing ALL the possible outcomes. That is why it took me so long to make the decision I did - I knew this could be the outcome and was finally ready to face that if it happened. Choices and consequences.

All in all, I still feel it's for the best. Both my AH and I have to do what is best for each of us at this point. I have to accept that he is doing what he thinks and feels is best for him. Not easy, but it has been worth it.