Hangin' In

In light of all the spouses and moms on here going through such tremendous heartache, I hesitated to post this for fear of it sounding so trivial. But then I thought that this board is for learning, no matter what stage we are in in our recovery, so I hope ya'll don't mind if I ask this.

Does anyone have any advice on how you discern what is just quacking and what are true words coming out of the mouths of our A's? Is 'quacking' a term used only when the A is drinking? Or can quacking just be their 'stinking alcoholic thinking' going on?

Case in point....my daughter, our A, really vented Saturday and decided to tell me, or maybe I should say BLAME me. She said that the reason she has picked the present b/f is because he criticizes her just like I've always done. It's what she knows...and bottom line was..."mama, it's your fault."

After she calmed down and apologized, her words are still ringing in my ears. Husband was there to witness all of this so I asked him what he thought. He said events earlier in the day, plus events coming up this weekend, just triggered this outburst and not to take what she says personally. Yeah right. Easier said than done. Also, she RARELY attacks him. I'm always the target. (Not having a pity party, just stating the facts here.)

Now what I have learned from this board, family counseling, Al Anon meetings and AA meetings is that alcoholics are the masters of blame. So how in the heck am I supposed to know if she's just using me as a scapegoat or if she truly feels I AM the problem? This has bothered me so much. I might add she sees me as asking her to be perfect when I expect her to wash her clothes when you can't see the floor of her room or pay her cell phone bill on time. She has always accused me of expecting her to be perfect. I've told her before that I think she has the terms 'perfect' and 'responsible' mixed up.

Sorry this got so long. I'm just confused on this. Seems like every time we have 'heated' words, I am told I am doing it all wrong. I'm sick n tired of it. And yes, I know. Check my gratitude list. I just did. I'm THANKFUL she is home and working on her sobriety. Guess I just need some words of wisdom so I can grow in my recovery and become a better Al Anoner.

Thanks for listening.

Stephanie

Hi Hangin'in,

I think that's a really good question. I know it's so easy to feed into someone telling you it's all because of you because I know part of my codependency is that I question myself a lot and always think someone else knows better. I don't know if your daughter is telling the truth or not the bottom line is you can't take responsibility for her behavior. She would love to put it all on you and it is the alcoholic thing to do. My A says that he does everything he does because I get mad at him so much. Believe me I don't have that much power and if I did I certainly wouldn't be using it to make him act like he does.

phoenix

I think it's important to remember that feelings are not facts.Even though she may genuinely feel that her problems are your fault,that doesn't mean it's true.It's common to blame others for our problems,and parents make handy targets for that blame.But at some point we are supposed to grow up and take responsiblity for ourselves.It was a revelation to me to realize that my parents are human beings who did the best they could.Too bad I was nearly 30 before I got that smart...lol.

Now I have been sober for several years and my mom and me have a great relationship.Part of making amands for me involved telling her that she was not to blame,and that I admired her as a person and as a parent.Keep encouraging your daughter to be responsible and don't get bogged down in the blame game.

phoenix

Hangin' In

A P.S. to my original post:

I realize ya'll must be saying, "Well how do WE know if you've been critical of her all your life?"

I admit I have been at times. But I also think I'm dealing with an alcoholic who sometimes doesn't want to face the music and own up to the fact that SHE is responsible for her decisions. And I also thought about saying this to her...

Ok, so YOU think I've been critical of you ALL YOUR LIFE? And if that is how you feel, then that is how you feel. Now my question to you is this:

What are you going to do about it? (My sarcastic self wants to say, "So are you going to let ME, doing it all wrong in the mothering department, affect you the rest of your life? But I won't do that....I've learned (A LITTLE) to watch my words!) But honestly, I want to say...."Ok, so you think I've screwed you up. Now my question is this. Are you going to do something about it when making your choices in men or are you just going to keep doing what you're doing, having the knowledge that is isn't in your best interest?"

Oh heck......I'm so frustrated and sick of being blamed. I remember one of the first comments from her when she first screwed up...when we caught her drinking in high school. She said, "Ya'll NEVER let me screw up!" (Another one of her "ya'll think I have to be perfect mind sets. Pfffffffft. I'm sick of them!)

Yeah honey....here we are 3 years later...and we've come to your rescue more time than I can remember. (not all drinking episodes. We've been through eating disorder also.) And you STILL have a roof over your head, $1,000's of dollars spent on counseling/treatment, college expenses paid for and a nice car to drive. Yeah...we have never let you screw up. Heck, maybe WE ARE the ones who've screwed up by not letting you fall 2 years ago. But she was away at college and we didn't have a clue what all she was in to, as far as the drinking/drug scene. Keep in mind we were dealing eating disorder and depression during all this also. Oh well......enough of my p.s.

Going to try and shut up this whining and go get to work. Afterall I do have an audit coming up Thursday!!!! Yikes! Forget the alcoholic. I'd better worry about the ACCOUNTANT!!!...

Thanks for listening.

phoenix

Oh I get it now.Good parents let their kids screw up.

Hahahahaha....QUACK!!!!

Hang in there and take care of you.

phoenix

Alongtimegone

I have been reading a book called The Four Agreements, by Don Miguel Ruiz. The enchange you had with your daughter made me think of some of the things I have been reading in it. If you have time - check it out. It may help you see things in a different light.

JT

Hangin...

Sure she will blame you...who is she going to blame? Herself???

You are either too critical or you don't care...

Too rich or too poor.

Mom is too strict or mom walked out.

Parents are too rigid or parents are partiers and bad examples.

Take your pick!!

100 % Pure pedigreed quacking. It is so typical and predictable that I would not give it one moment of your time worrying.

We do the best we know how to do....when we know better we do better!

Hugs,
JT

sugar52

dear hangin,
i think i hear mother torture. i hope you're not buying into it. if she's working on recovery, it's gonna take time. you work on yours with a vengeence,(sp)
apparently she is wrestling with accountability to herself and stuck in a adolesent phase. addicts and a's are often very immature for their age, usually stuck at the age they start abusing from what i'm told.
she's knocking at your boundaries trying to hold the relationship where she needs it, not where you are taking it to. sounds like she should be very grateful for the loving family support she has been blessed with , SOME DAY !
my kids always go after me and rip me heartlessly about how it's all my fault. blah, blah, blah!!
point of note, they never critisized their fathers(a's), of course their father's didn't parent much, and hardly ever disciplined.
you are a constant and stable presence in her life. she challenges your every thought, but that's growing up and recovery mixed in. i for one would stay right out of her choices, detach, and just smile and work on the respect factor that she seems to be battling with. don't think that i'm telling you to take verbal abuse from her either, but tell her how you feel, when emotions aren't running high.
hangin, i think your a great mom, and try not to give her struggles too much power. the real world is new to her if she's working on recovery. vent away, and all of us mom's unite for solidarity.hugs from sugar
ps where are all those mom's, jt, smoke, anns,?

journeygal

I wanted to post from a daughter's point of view and I hope not to ruffle any feathers.

Your daughter probably feels that you were critical, and if you're a codependent, you may have been. (I'm not saying you were, it's just that us codep. tend to be a little critical...) My mother has always been very critical of me. I in turn spent 7 years with someone who was also very critical of me. It was what I knew and what I was attracted to. After him, I met and married my husband. And guess what? I turned out to be the critical one - critical of everything he would do, say, whatever. I was repeating the same patterns that I grew up with.

Now, I've struggled with these feelings about my mom and I finally got to the point where I had to accept my mom and her ways and not let the past keep dictating my future choices and behaviors. And, as angry as I've been with my mom at times, I know she did the best she could, with trying to raise me and my brother while dealing with an alcoholic husband.

I agree that it is quacking, to the extent that she would rather blame you instead of taking responsiblity for her own actions. At some point she will have to decide that using her upbringing as an excuse for her choices and decisions is not an acceptable way for her to live her life.

Try not to lose sleep over what she said. You love and care for your daughter and all you've done is support her and try to raise her to be a responsible adult.

I hope I didn't offend, I just wanted to give a slightly different point of view. I have great respect for all you moms, as I do for my own.

JT

JG,

I agree with you. As a mom there are no awards out there for mother of the year for me. Being a codependent crippled me in my younger years. In recovery I have had to learn to forgive my past flaws and make amends by doing better today.

The second part of your post is the most important. It IS the daughters respnsilbilty to get on with it and stop blaming. Easier said than done I am sure.

Hugs,
JT

Ann

Hangin'In

I am bilingually fluent in "Quackese" and she is quacking.

It's not "what" they say, it's "how" they say it that makes it quacking. Whether or not she has a valid issue, the way she addresses it is quacking. If she asked you to sit and discuss something that had been troubling her, that is not quacking.

They can say "I Love You" and it can be quacking, if their motives are all wrong. The same words spoken differently would not be quacking.

Also, as a "fellow mom", I just have to say that we have done the best we could, we are not perfect, and we did it with love in our hearts. So if it wasn't quite suitable for them....well too bad. Fire me!

Sending hugs, Hangin'In, just because I know that you are a great mom!!!!

Josie

Hangin,
My 21 year old doesn't come out and
say what he is really thinking, but it's
quite obvious to me. He makes these
snide remarks, and I can see he resents
the hell out of me at times. Yesterday he said something smart and I said "you can disown me at anytime, and I will have no problem with it." I think we have a
little communication problem, but I
don't care to discuss it with him. I
went through a spell of blaming my
parents in my 20's-this too shall pass-
I think!!!!

Hugs,

Hangin' In

Thanks to ALL of you who responded and helped me to understand this a little better.

I do know it takes 2 to tango, as they say, so I know I need to take a good look at myself and my behavior also. And I will try to not get into that 'blame game' with her, also. Good grief, you think you are armed with all your good Al Anon info and then, BAM, they hit you between the eyes and you just kind of zone out or something... (Hey, wait a minute. I think my state of mind could be considered 'zoned out' all the time. I like to call it 'dingbat attacks'. The problem is they are coming more often and closer and closer together. I think I'll blame my daughter for that...lol)

So could you please pass me that book on "Quackese". I think I need to brush up on it...smiles. And you do not know how many times I've thought, "Honey, you don't like how I mother? Well you are free to go find you a better one!"

BUT GALS, DID YOU SEE IT? Phoenix actually is a testimony to the fact that they CAN grow up, GET SOBER and see that mama wasn't so bad after!!!! AHHHHHHHH, THERE IS HOPE! (Phoenix, surely you wouldn't mind if I sent my daughter to live with you a while, would you? I thinking if she has close contact with you some of that 'good thinkin' might rub off on her....smiles.)

Ok, I've vented a little and now I feel better. Thank you guys. You probably just saved me a $90 counseling fee...