Need help with kids
When Pigs Fly
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: california
Posts: 894
Need help with kids
My AH wants to start seeing the kids on a regular routine, I'm okay with this because he has agreed that it be monitored. My daughter never wants to see or talk with him again, my son (6yrs) Cries and tells me no, not unless I'm there too. I'm not ready in my recovery to do that yet, I hope I will be. My AH has said that if he has to go get a court order he will. I'm in a tuff situation. I want my children and their Dad to rebuild their relationship, I relly do. What do you think I should do? Make my kids see him? Wait untill they want to? Let the courts decide? What have any of you done? He has been out of the house about 6 weeks. Help! 
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: over the rainbow
Posts: 487
well, if you guys haven't done anything legally yet to determine that, i would tell your AH that his son does not want to see him. Cause he doesn't! And although it would be a wonderful thing for something like this to wake the AH up- don't hold your breath. but as a sober parent and the kids living at home with me, I will determine whether or not he is allowed to see them. We are pretty loose but right now i am getting to the point where i think that not seeing him or hearing from him at all on a weekend every now and then is good for me.
our children have rights too. and if they are uncomfortable with a parent then i believe we should respect that. I also tried very hard not to project my feelings of anger, hatred, or revenge onto the kids - because their relationship with their father is not my business. I only determine if his present behavior is acceptable enough for them to be around him.
I also think that even with lots of negative alcoholic behaviors their dad still loves them very much, and they show him unconditional love-which he very much needs. They may be his only salve which could open the door to him wanting to heal. Additionally, as I have made lots of behaviorial codependent adjustments (with the wonderful help of Al-Anon) my children are learning new ways as well--and I have witnessed them responding to him in very positive ways with their newly learned tools--almost like the child is the teacher to the parent- not that they are taking on the role of the adult- but they are not being "manipulated" by his actions.
i wanted to add that when he was moving out i told him and he agreed that he would not have had anything to drink 8-12 hours before he gets them, and if he has, he does not get them. i also said that i think he is an unfit parent and if he tries to jerk me around about this i will call him on it- and demand supervised visits, as well as notify all the authorities of his usage and require drug testing.....
hope this helps.
our children have rights too. and if they are uncomfortable with a parent then i believe we should respect that. I also tried very hard not to project my feelings of anger, hatred, or revenge onto the kids - because their relationship with their father is not my business. I only determine if his present behavior is acceptable enough for them to be around him.
I also think that even with lots of negative alcoholic behaviors their dad still loves them very much, and they show him unconditional love-which he very much needs. They may be his only salve which could open the door to him wanting to heal. Additionally, as I have made lots of behaviorial codependent adjustments (with the wonderful help of Al-Anon) my children are learning new ways as well--and I have witnessed them responding to him in very positive ways with their newly learned tools--almost like the child is the teacher to the parent- not that they are taking on the role of the adult- but they are not being "manipulated" by his actions.
i wanted to add that when he was moving out i told him and he agreed that he would not have had anything to drink 8-12 hours before he gets them, and if he has, he does not get them. i also said that i think he is an unfit parent and if he tries to jerk me around about this i will call him on it- and demand supervised visits, as well as notify all the authorities of his usage and require drug testing.....
hope this helps.
Last edited by escape artist; 02-25-2006 at 04:33 PM. Reason: i wanted to add
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: far from home
Posts: 12
Kermit can I ask why they dont want to see him, are they scared? I think kids need to see their father if the visits are supervised by someone you trust then I think you should give it a go, make it a really short first visit half hour or hour long and see how it goes. I cant really give to much advice but good luck.
When Pigs Fly
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: california
Posts: 894
My 6yr old says he is scared, my 15yr old, well he drove her when he shouldn't have, so there is no way that she will see him, not yet. My 3yr old does't mind. I think I'm going to try and tell my son "give it a hour if you are not having fun and feel you need the visit to end, just call." I was even thinking of giving him a timer. I do not want my children to be afraid.
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Join Date: Jan 2006
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I did not have your problem. In fact, almost the opposite. My children were angry at me for making him leave. They desperately wanted to see him and I had to set the ground rules about not drinking around them, etc. I do know that counseling helped, for them. They understand a little bit more about addiction now and how he loves them even though his behaviors were sometimes not very indicative of that. Also, I make sure they know that they can call me anytime, day or night, and I will come get them if they want me to, for any reason. I also worked very hard at not letting my anger towards him spill over onto them.
Good luck, you are in a tough situation.
L
Good luck, you are in a tough situation.
L
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Shampoohorn City
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Originally Posted by kermit
My 6yr old says he is scared, my 15yr old, well he drove her when he shouldn't have, so there is no way that she will see him, not yet. My 3yr old does't mind. I think I'm going to try and tell my son "give it a hour if you are not having fun and feel you need the visit to end, just call." I was even thinking of giving him a timer. I do not want my children to be afraid.
Your 15 year old wishes should be considered by him, they would be by a court. When she is ready she will see him, he is just going to have to deal with that, and the courts would say the samething. Why is your 6 year old scared? Yelling and "normal" eractic behavior of an addict? Have you told him any of this yet, that is where I started w/ my husband, he is in recovery right now and he understands that he created a rift btwn himself and my oldest, he is working on building that relationship, but it takes time.
I would, if you can/want, do the park, or the mall or whatever is in your neck of the woods with him & the kids, if you can stand it, otherwise, if you can't and you don't want him to have unsupervised visitation, I would tell him you will begin court proceedings/mediator to work out the time. You have to do what is best for you and for your kids, as you know, and he needs to do what is best for them too. Whatever that may be. Sorry you are going through this... stay strong and take care of you.
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: In Search of Finding ME!
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I don't recall your entire story Kermit so I apologize for that. However, from reading this thread and from what I can recall, I really would advise against pushing the kids to go see their father. This is a man that they fear and he makes them uncomfortable. If it was not their father, you would not put them into a situation such as this with anyone that they feared, felt uncomfortable with, and did not wish to see.
If your ah wants to get a court order, I'd allow him to do so. I'd also think about getting your kids into alateen and also to a counselor. Perhaps this way as well, if supervised visitations are given, they will be with a court ordered liason.
On a side note, it is not your responsibility to make sure that they have a good relationship with their father - it is his! If he wants that with them, it is up to him to make it happen and make amends to them. This is not about you and/or your giving them permission to see their father - it's about him being responsible and proving himself.
I am sorry if I am out of line. As I said, I dont recall your entire situation. But I do know that my kids have seen some damage due to their own A father and I would never force them to be put in a situation with them that makes them fearful and uncomfortable. It's not my job to make sure that they have a relationship with him, it's his. There have been times that my children didn't want to go see their father and I didn't make them go.
I occassionally read the Children of Alcoholics forum and I see the damage that's been done. I know as well that the damage I caused between my oldest son and myself due to my reactions w/ ah have been the making of my own downfall. I don't make him come see me - I simply encourage it and hope that he will allow me to make amends to him. I want him to come see me because he wants too - not because he is made too or feels that he should. It's my responsibility to fix that - not ah's. I'm being held responsible for the damage that I caused. And on that note, I believe that your ah should as well.
(For the record, my son tells me that he lives with ah because he doesn't want ah to be alone. I believe in my heart and from little things that son has said, it is because of my own actions in reacting to ah) Regardless......it's my job as a parent to make amends to him - just as it's ah's responsibility to make the amends to the younger two that live with me.
I don't believe in forcing a child into a situation they feel uncomfortable in. They didn't have a choice when ah lived here - they have a choice now.
Sorry to have rambled, I guess I just really feel badly that your kids fear their father and are uncomfortable and may possibly be made to be put in a situation like that - whether by you, the courts, or whoever.
Addictions hurts and affects everyone so badly. It just breaks my heart sometimes.
I know that we are not supposed to advise others. I know that I should edit this post. I just really feel badly for the situation you are in - but also feel very badly for your children.
My heart goes out to you no matter what decision you make - as you are in a very hard situation.
If your ah wants to get a court order, I'd allow him to do so. I'd also think about getting your kids into alateen and also to a counselor. Perhaps this way as well, if supervised visitations are given, they will be with a court ordered liason.
On a side note, it is not your responsibility to make sure that they have a good relationship with their father - it is his! If he wants that with them, it is up to him to make it happen and make amends to them. This is not about you and/or your giving them permission to see their father - it's about him being responsible and proving himself.
I am sorry if I am out of line. As I said, I dont recall your entire situation. But I do know that my kids have seen some damage due to their own A father and I would never force them to be put in a situation with them that makes them fearful and uncomfortable. It's not my job to make sure that they have a relationship with him, it's his. There have been times that my children didn't want to go see their father and I didn't make them go.
I occassionally read the Children of Alcoholics forum and I see the damage that's been done. I know as well that the damage I caused between my oldest son and myself due to my reactions w/ ah have been the making of my own downfall. I don't make him come see me - I simply encourage it and hope that he will allow me to make amends to him. I want him to come see me because he wants too - not because he is made too or feels that he should. It's my responsibility to fix that - not ah's. I'm being held responsible for the damage that I caused. And on that note, I believe that your ah should as well.
(For the record, my son tells me that he lives with ah because he doesn't want ah to be alone. I believe in my heart and from little things that son has said, it is because of my own actions in reacting to ah) Regardless......it's my job as a parent to make amends to him - just as it's ah's responsibility to make the amends to the younger two that live with me.
I don't believe in forcing a child into a situation they feel uncomfortable in. They didn't have a choice when ah lived here - they have a choice now.
Sorry to have rambled, I guess I just really feel badly that your kids fear their father and are uncomfortable and may possibly be made to be put in a situation like that - whether by you, the courts, or whoever.
Addictions hurts and affects everyone so badly. It just breaks my heart sometimes.
I know that we are not supposed to advise others. I know that I should edit this post. I just really feel badly for the situation you are in - but also feel very badly for your children.
My heart goes out to you no matter what decision you make - as you are in a very hard situation.
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Join Date: Apr 2004
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Kermit, I would suggest for your own sanity and the welfare of your children to go to court and get the supervised visitation set up legally. While doing this, in California, I know for sure the court will assign an "Guardian Ad Lideum" (sp?) for the children. In essence their own attorney. This person will be experienced in just such instances and will talk with the children, will note the children's concerns and be "on the side of the children."
I also agree that suggest to your 15yr old to try Alateen, and to get all the children into counseling.
And I too believe that it is up to you AH to rebuild his relationship with his children, not for you to "force" or "insist" that they go for a visit. He has to earn their trust again.
Personally, right now "what he wants" unless it is to be sober more than anything in the world, is of little consequence. Your children have been traumatized and they need to be taken care of, not his whims and wants.
JMO but I say let the courts decide.
Love and (((((to all))))),
I also agree that suggest to your 15yr old to try Alateen, and to get all the children into counseling.
And I too believe that it is up to you AH to rebuild his relationship with his children, not for you to "force" or "insist" that they go for a visit. He has to earn their trust again.
Personally, right now "what he wants" unless it is to be sober more than anything in the world, is of little consequence. Your children have been traumatized and they need to be taken care of, not his whims and wants.
JMO but I say let the courts decide.
Love and (((((to all))))),
Searching and tripping
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Back in my head
Posts: 1,194
Just a thought...Would you consider taking your children to a doctor who would document their reactions to visitation rights? Say for instance, your 6 year olds fear of his father and your 15 year olds resentment of him driving drunk with her. Something like this would hold a lot of water in court. Just looking to document issues that you're having now.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: plant city florida
Posts: 23
hello from one mother to another you need to get cudosty of your kids before he does when me and my ex split i had the kids he took them for a visit and never returned them i had to go to court to get them back. i hope this helps linda
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: England
Posts: 3,410
Kermit, I don't have kids, but I do remember reading an interesting article on documenting everything when you separate from an alcoholic. Hope it helps.
http://www.empoweredrecovery.com/art...ocujournal.htm
http://www.empoweredrecovery.com/art...ocujournal.htm
Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,579
My children are older, but it is just a different twist on the whole, sad situation. I am lucky that they are now young adults, so in the eyes of the court, can not be forced to visit,etc.......but of course it is still a very difficult and heart-breaking experience for us all. (When my AH sent divorce papers, my teenage daughter called his lawyer that day and told him she would NOT be spending any court-ordered time with him, that he is an alcoholic and she is afraid of him. She then told this to AH. Evidently she also told him he had better talk to his lawyer about this because if forced, she would run away instead; and I am sure she would have. Husband left it to her discretion,to his credit, esp. if he wants any relationship with her at all..which he desperately does.) Also; they can come and go on their own. I am trying my best to stay out of things, either way (with my own guilt/compassion and anger).
AH also got us each cell phones. He and the kids can deal directly that way so they can ignore his calls, get his messages, call him 24/7 if they want and I can stay completely out of it.........(it is hard for me,sometimes) but so much better for all of us; especially them. That is the most important part.
AH is pretty good about it,too although I notice he tries to blame me (my opinion) when they will not see/talk to him or mention it in a pathetic way that in the past would cause me to nudge them into seeing him.......I am trying hard to stay off that ride. We have had a few weeks of that lately. So far, so good for just saying "ohhh" and leaving it at that and not taking the "bait".
I am sorry you are in this position. I know what it is for them to be afraid of their own father.......I feel that way about him myself sometimes and feel that "for" them. The unpredictability and the potential to be hurt emotionally..by the bad OR good......it's hard; as we all know. Physical safety adds another dimension, and I am sure your daughter still deeply effected by that on more than a few levels. Especially since they are still active. Why wouldn't they expect it to happen again...or something worse.
You have received lots of good advice by more seasoned sources than me. Here is a thought I will throw out..maybe someone has tried this and can comment. Perhaps if one of them wants to see him, (or all) you could take them to McDonald's etc,etc and meet him there and they could eat, spend time together, and you could just go eat,read, etc and another part of the place. It would be fairly short, they could "visit", it's public so he would probably be on "good behavior" esp. with you within view and it might be reassuring for the kids that you are there if they get uncomfortable and want to leave. Also, you don't have to worry about him driving them. He could see them but you are still close enough to provide them with security.
Just an idea.
Best of luck to you in this and other difficult dilemmas. Sending you a hug and I will keep you all in my prayers.
AH also got us each cell phones. He and the kids can deal directly that way so they can ignore his calls, get his messages, call him 24/7 if they want and I can stay completely out of it.........(it is hard for me,sometimes) but so much better for all of us; especially them. That is the most important part.
AH is pretty good about it,too although I notice he tries to blame me (my opinion) when they will not see/talk to him or mention it in a pathetic way that in the past would cause me to nudge them into seeing him.......I am trying hard to stay off that ride. We have had a few weeks of that lately. So far, so good for just saying "ohhh" and leaving it at that and not taking the "bait".
I am sorry you are in this position. I know what it is for them to be afraid of their own father.......I feel that way about him myself sometimes and feel that "for" them. The unpredictability and the potential to be hurt emotionally..by the bad OR good......it's hard; as we all know. Physical safety adds another dimension, and I am sure your daughter still deeply effected by that on more than a few levels. Especially since they are still active. Why wouldn't they expect it to happen again...or something worse.
You have received lots of good advice by more seasoned sources than me. Here is a thought I will throw out..maybe someone has tried this and can comment. Perhaps if one of them wants to see him, (or all) you could take them to McDonald's etc,etc and meet him there and they could eat, spend time together, and you could just go eat,read, etc and another part of the place. It would be fairly short, they could "visit", it's public so he would probably be on "good behavior" esp. with you within view and it might be reassuring for the kids that you are there if they get uncomfortable and want to leave. Also, you don't have to worry about him driving them. He could see them but you are still close enough to provide them with security.
Just an idea.
Best of luck to you in this and other difficult dilemmas. Sending you a hug and I will keep you all in my prayers.
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