equus

Blah!! I think people bang on far too much about self love! When we say we need it in order to love by default we suggest their are those incapable of love - love is a verb not a flippin' silk robe or complex philosophy! Love is also flamin' complicated and by the time we do figure out what 'self' is then what 'love' is we'd be too flamin' near the grave to make much use of sticking them together!!

When it comes to valuing myself I think of it like breathing - it needs an in and out. If I accept value, potential and worth in all human beings, then equally I know I am human therefore also precious. (A breath out, a breath in). If I doubt my own worth, will I be tempted to think I am lower than other humans or more likely to begin to see 'some' people's worth as less? (A breath in, a breath out). If I see others as worthless than me then I do something I feel ashamed of won't some part of me question my own worth? (breath out breath in).

In this sense I can see that valuing self is needed to value others but I can also notice it's a less than perfect process and that whether you begin with breathing in or out - the important part is to understand one isn't a fat lot of use without the other!!

Is my self worth always tickatiboo? No, but I know to see other's worth I need to see my own and that neither will ever be perfect - just a work in progress.

Is my view of other's worth perfect? No, but as I appreciate more the value and more importantly POTENTIAL, in each human being, as I learn to judge behaviour more than people my own self worth grows.

escape artist

well if a verb is an action word then you must be talking about sex. i think self love is another way to say "self acceptance". which sounds pretty much like what you are trying to say in your diatribe. words words words, we get so caught up and lost in the words of what we are really trying to convey. probably better to look at good art.

Live

I think you make sense Equus. I do not think your post is a diatribe. I do not think love=sex. I KNOW love does not = sex. I am loved by several people. And I love several people.

My husband's back is really hurting. When I went to the pharmacy to get things for him, like pain medication, and raspberry sorbet, and a little spirits to cream his coffee with in the morning. That was love. I could have sex with him. But that would not be love, he is in pain.

I love other guy friends and I tell them so. We enjoy each other's personalities, accept and appreciate one another. That is love. I could have sex with some of them but I don't because that would not be love.

My diatribe,
live

gelfling

I can really relate to this. I'm still learning to "love" myself. But I feel I am totally capable of loving others unconditionally. Guess that makes me bass-ackwards???

LaTeeDa

I think what I consider "self love" is really just being comfortable in my own skin. Not worrying so much about what I "should" or "shouldn't" be, do, feel, etc. I don't know if calling it *love* puts some people off, but it's really just being happy with who I am. If I am not, then love or compassion for someone else is just not as sincere.

JMO,
L

minnie

I always thought that was the essence of the "need to love yourself before you love another" statement. Perhaps "value" and "love" have become synonymous - I do believe that "love" is a totally overused word nowadays and used sloppily as shorthand.

equus

Heheheheh - I'm not but that demonstrates pretty clearly why I think self 'love' often gets confused - it means different things to different people so while some folk claim abundant self love others still try to figure out what the hell it should mean.

When I talk about love as a verb to me it's the acts of genuine affection from one person to another - that doesn't equal sex alone! A heart felt smile to someone I've never met is an act of love, what makes it real is the worth that I might see in that stranger - my pleasure in them. If I'm meeting a teenager I remind myself beforehand of all the potential youth has, for all I know I might be meeting the most incredible person I'll ever come across, certainly I'll meet someone unique who will have something priceless to teach me - that changes the way I approach the whole thing. Would I rather see a beautiful work of art or meet that person? The answer's easy for me - I'd rather meet the teenager.

That's what I meant about breathing and it being 'in -out' or 'out-in' while I acknowledge and look forward to meeting someone new, naturally it's human worth my mind rests on - I am human so every positive thought I hold includes me.

It's harder when I'm meeting a manager or director for the first time, I can have lots of preconcieved ideas about their way of life, whether their career holds more importance than the people in their care. What I notice then as my view of their worth fluctuates is I'm making worth conditional, naturally that makes my worth conditional.

What it means in action is how I treat someone else AND myself. The more I appreciate worth the more caring my behaviour, as I would genuinely care that someone else isn't tired or distressed - if it is based on worth then naturally I pay attention to take time to sleep and be rested myself. If it's based on potential then even more so it seems absolutely RIGHT to take care of myself.

If the care I show to others becomes more based on my up and down emotions then when I do something I know is wrong it's easier to be tempted to reduce my own self worth - if I've been angry and acted to cause harm am I still worth caring for? I'm only a human being so if 'they' are not worth caring for because 'they' have caused harm - equally I am not. But if 'they' remain worthwhile then so as a person am I.

I suppose I look at value because it's simpler to me and when that real value to me is there the actions that I believe are loving come naturally, when I lose it actions that are not loving come naturally - both to myself and others.

Hopefully - this is a bit clearer, I'm certainly not talking about sex - making love maybe, but not just sex!!

Out of interest Escape - why did you dig down to page 2 - read through the whole thing and reply if you thought it was a diatribe? I could understand if it was bumped and getting on your nerves but I'm just flaming curious as it had headed south!!

Either way I'm sorry my way of putting things is a bit odd, it can be hard to really try and say what I mean without sometimes using different language. I tend to remember different people that helped me and their phrases that helped me understand sometimes come to mind - for half of them english wasn't a first language!!

Zoey

What you wrote, sounds right to me, equus.

equus

Like breathing I don't think it matters so much which comes first - some people I think learn to value themselves through seeing worth in others and some people value others through seeing value in themselves. I also don't think of it as an on off affair, rather that it comes in degrees, a person may heve a little or a lot.

I know I see value in myself - I know it tends to equal the worth I give others but neither has reached it's full potential. Like breathing to get one to grow I need to let the other grow.

I think ALL people have some love and compassion, I think where we struggle is to keep it consistant through life and especially through strong emotions - both with ourselves and others.

I also think it's easily confused with attachment, something I'm just begining to learn. just as there is a difference between loving another and being attached, there is a difference between loving myself and being attached. That's simply because they aren't the same thing - that has really hit home to me in the last weeks.