ByAThread

OK...here goes...exposing my worst moments here...this happened a couple of weeks ago, but we're just getting around to "discussing" it...I'll tell you what happened then, and give you the gist of our "talking" about it yesterday and today, and let you comment on what you think of the situation.

On his last larger drunk (I say Larger, because he quits and starts every day, but this was a binge laced with depression), I tried ignoring him. After a long while, I slipped and went into a rage...went into the "hell-hole room" he goes into when he's drunk and depressed, where he was sleeping off his latest binge. I started my verbal ranting/lecturing, which I KNOW is STOOPID and WRONG and never helps any situation. Then I got more frustrated because, being drunk, he ranted back and then ignored me. I found his empty bottle and went in and threw it at him (plastic, empty...stupid, I know, but harmless...just a wake-up call). Later I went back and asked him why he wanted to be married to me...he couldn't come up with any reason because it "wasn't a good time for him" to think about it. I then asked him for his wedding ring (childish and pointless, I know), since he couldn't tell me why he wanted to be married to me...he said he wasn't giving it to me because it is "his"...so I went over to him and tried to take it off of his finger (not hurting him at all...just trying to take it)...he wouldn't let me...I kept trying...he became angrier, and grabbed my wrist and twisted my arm HARD...it hurt, but I was so mad that I said, "Go ahead...break it...give me something to show the police!" There was a bit more yelling, and then I left him alone for whatever number of hours/days, until he came around, out of his stupor, apologized, and we went back to "playing nice".

This is our pattern when I can't control my lecturing...I rant, he rants...then we go our separate ways (in the same house) and go back to "normal", but not with any violence usually. There have been a couple other occasions over many years, where I became angry, lectured, ranted and threw little things at him...and where he's thrown a book at me, slammed a door, tried to kick open a locked door, and once I dumped kitty litter on him as he was passed out drunk, and he returned by almost pushing me down the attic stairs. He got out his gun to threaten suicide. I once asked him how to load the gun for my own (though I'd NEVER do it...HATE guns and would never kill myself!) I guess I never considered any of these episodes "violent", but a couple of them scared me (both because of MY anger and behavior, and because of the fear it created in me of HIS anger and behavior). I've always said violence would be the last straw. Now I need some input as to what constitutes "violent" behavior, and how my part in it compares to his.

So...that's the event...now to the "talking" about it, which has caused my dilemma. I have had a sore wrist for the past 2-3 weeks, since the twist and shout episode. Every time I use it in a certain way, it hurts, and I have been stewing over it for a long time. I know I behaved BADLY in that episode, and it did only harm to the situation, but I also know I didn't inflict ANY physical pain on him. But he hurt me physically, to the point of continued pain that is an annoyance daily. I finally said something last PM...he was (supposedly) sober (according to his clamis), so I said, without ANY sarcasm or nasty tone, "The next time you feel the need to inflict bodily harm on me, I wish you'd choose something other than a wrist." Well...he didn't take that comment well at all...he "went off" saying how I had "attacked" him, and how he had every right to do what he did. I started to "argue" this, pointing out that I didn't "hurt" him physically with anything I did that day, and that his anger at my bugging him was no cause for physical abuse. He continued along the lines of "just behavior" on his part. I shut up and went to sleep.

This AM I gave him the cold shoulder, and went to work. I was still stewing over the issue, and now was angry again. Then, tonight, after our neighbor left from her visit, I asked him if he was sober (dumb question, I know, but I wanted to know if we could possibly continue our "rational" discussion of the issue.) I felt I needed to tell him that I wasn't going to live in a realtionship where I feared physical violence whenever he felt "angry" or "attacked"...that although my behavior that day wasn't stellar, I wasn't going to live in a violent household, where he felt he could react that way when I hadn't hurt him physically. Well, I am fairly certain he was NOT sober, because he went off again, still sticking by his reasoning, that he has every right to hurt me physically if he is "startled" or feels "attacked". He claims I awakened him with this rant scene, which is not the case...he was laying there, eyes open, playing the depressed martyr, removing himself from the world. I ranted more over this, stating that I wasn't going to be part of a violent household...that he'd turned out more like his father than he thought (he claims his father abused him as a young man, and has blamed much of his drinking/depression on him)...that I should've told someone when it happened, and that I wouldn't let it happen again without reporting the violence. He escaped to "his room", bringing the overeating factor into play as he retreated (one of his favorite comebacks...he drinks...I eat...blah, blah, blah.)

Now I realize (especially after typing this all out) that my behavior is sometimes irrational, and driven by anger. And I know it's never good to talk to a drunk. But my question is...am I minimizing my own behavior by saying it's non-violent? Am I supposed to put up with his violent behavior, no matter when it is delivered, or for what reasons? It seems ridiculous to even be asking or considering which of our bad behavior is worse, but I want to know what you guys think as far as the violence issue goes. I know that I am really, REALLY going to work much harder on just LEAVING HIM ALONE when he is drinking. I know I'm going to try REALLY hard to control my feelings of anger, and not act upon them. But I want to know what you would do about the physical stuff. I know there are folks who get beaten...really BEATEN...and that this is nothing in comparison. But not having been raised around violence, and not having experienced much from him, or ever expressing my own anger violently before doing it towards him, I have no guage for it. My own violent anger scares me, as does his. I know it's all part of the cycle of drinking and reacting, but I don't think it's acceptable, from either of us.

So...as I crawl into my embarassed hole, after having exposed the raw truth to you all about what happens at our house sometimes, I'll wait anxiously for your replies. YIKES!

Thanks for being gentle!
Barb

splendra

I wanna say leave him alone when he is drinking and also get help for yourself...

cwohio

definitely detach - i know i had to physically leave the house when arguments started (which didn't happen that often thank God) because i knew i wasn't strong enough in my recovery to just detach while still in the house - i just couldn't ignore the disease talking to me. there wasn't physical stuff going on so i can't address that question. your anger has obviously built to an unacceptable level and will continue if you don't get help for yourself.

JessicaNAJ

I agree with the others. It is not healthy for you to let things get out of control. BTDT....I finally made my mind up that, it just wasn't worth it and actually got pretty good at ignoring his "rants".

mythreesons

Alcoholism is frustrating, it hurts, it is not about us, but it sure feels like it sometimes. I believe now that whenever I "attacked" my husband through ranting and raving, it was my desperate sadness and frustration looking for a "better reason" than his alcoholism to "leave him alone" for good. It is dangerous behavior, I hope you find a better way to take care of yourself when he goes into his hell-hole. Try REALLY, REALLY hard not to follow him.

velvet

You realize that you cannot argue with a drunk person. They can't respond the way you want..and you know this...then it just makes you more mad..then they get mad...what a cycle...Step out of it..get yourself some help, learn how to deal with it. Maybe he will see your change and want to change. You take the first step, for your own good.

Ann

Any physical behaviour when you or he are out of control is very dangerous and can inflict more harm than originally intended. What concerns me is that you both seem to have an anger management issue...and a gun in the house.

It sounds like a toxic combination and perhaps you both could benefit from some anger management counselling.

Hugs
Ann

Jazzman

This is unacceptable, irrational, argumentative and violent behavior on both parts. Are there children in your home?

Live

Battery by law is defined as touching someone in an angry manner. So, legally, trying to remove the ring is battery. Twisting your arm is battery. Likely if the police were called you would both be arrested. Believe me on this one, been there, done that. So, you both go to jail for the night until someone bonds you out in the morning. And then you have fines and misdeamenors on your record. And I have one word to say: resentments.

So, this isn't a happy scenario for either one of you. These are the dance steps the two of you have learned. Help comes in learning a new dance. Lots of wise, wise folks here to help with that.

I think by the time I had lived with my alcoholic for awhile I was crazier than he was.
And I am not going to admit at this time all the crazy stuff I did. It didn't do any good though. Especially for me.

good luck and compassion,
live

Ameliorater

I'm new at this too so please excuse me if i say anything wrong. As we say in progrom take what you like and leave the rest.
I'd never tell anyone to leave their mate because I coun't be there with them at 3am when the lonlyness hits and their alone. That said, after reading your thred I'd have to say what your experencing is the onset of violence. I've only heard one side of the story but if half of what you wrote is true with his drinking it's only going to get worse. One thing I feel safe in saying is that life dosn't let any of us tred water for very long.... Things don't saty the same. Everything changes. And that being the case we should direct the change, (with God's help) reather then continuing to go through the change.
I don't know if you believe in a higher power but if that's an option it might be a good first step. Then do something, anything, you can to get some help. You'll be in my prays

Zoey

I feel you should leave him alone, I know we hate it and get angry, but sounds like he has never been violent unless you start it.
We need help with anger, can you go to lots of meetings or to a counselor???

I am concerned about your wrist. i once thought I had just brused myself in the rib area, but I had broke a rib, please don't neglect that wrist.
Sorry for the problems, but we just cannot fix them. HUGS

ladybug little

as most said before i, leave him alone. seek help whether through al-anon, counseling, posting here, whatever. jazzman asked an excellant question, are there kids at home? i'll be praying for the both of you.

love and prayers,
ladybug little

ritabee

When my A drinks he feels entitled to go online and try to pick up women on *****. He knows how I feel about this yet he does it anyways. One night after drinking many, many beers he fell asleep for about an hour. Then he woke up and saw me in the living room with my laptop on my lap. I was at a game site and he could have seen that had he chose to look. However he flung accusations at me and I felt the need to follow him back into the bedroom to tell him that I don't do what HE does.

He told me to get out of his face and I VERY LIGHTLY tapped him on the side of his temple. The result was a staggering blow to my jaw, with me spending the night in the emergency room and him spending 5 days in jail. He has been out of the house ever since and our lives have been turned upside down.

If I had it to do all over again, yes I would still call 9-1-1 however I would never have taken the bait and just overlooked his accusations. I am in Al-anon now and am learning to detatch from the drinking. I can now see how my actions made things worse (and they were bad enough to begin with). I no longer accuse him of drinking even though I can hear it in his voice over the phone. I refuse to give him another reason to blame me for his disease. If he wants to fight he's going to have to find another sparring partner because I don't play that game any more.

The good thing that has come out of this is that he has to attend alcohol and anger management counseling. He is sober more days than he is drunk. I have no expectations but a very cautious hope. While I don't blame myself for him hitting me, I can't ignore my part in the drama that unfolded. I never feel very good about myself either when I lose my temper with him so I'm trying not to let that happen again.

ByAThread

No kids (I may be dumb, but I'm not STUPID!)...just pets...he's kicked one of our dogs...I didn't start that one...I know my anger is out of control, and that scares me...I know I need to walk away from him...knowing doesn't always help me do what's right...I go to Alanon...I come here...I talk to friends...I am tired of him always needing the help and us always focusing on getting HIM the help he needs...think it's time to make that long put-off appointment for ME...I often neglect my own health matters (physical and mental) in order to take care of his, and that's way wrong...I never thought I'd become this, and I don't like it...I don't think it's just me provoking him every time, but I take responsibility for my part in the game...I'm working on that...feeling low, and (now) guilty...guess when you expose the darkest parts of your life, you have to expect to hear some criticism...going to bed...he's having no trouble sleeping right now, so why should I be up feeling bad? Thanks for listening.

Live

AHHHHHH, I think you all ready felt bad enough, no one here meant to step on your toes. I just had an idea. Have you ever gone to relationships in recovery and read the definition of a healthy relationship? I think you would like what it has. Alot.
hugs,
live

sarah25

OK, so leave him alone when he's drunk, but mine follows me around the house and if I don't talk about what HE wnats to talk about or look at him the right way or agree with everything he says then it's trouble, what do you do if they are like that? He won't leave ME alone, even if I try to go to bed....he'll follow me and lie on the bed and antagonise me.
Don't be ashamed for being angry, everyone loses it every ow and then, esp. when you're living with the crap we all are. I'm in a bad mood today, sorry, after last night I would LOVE to dump the kitty litter over his head! Sorry, full of anger myself today so probably shouldn't be replying to your post since I have a ton of stuff I'd like to do to my A right now! But I feel for you, and your anger, and the 'returning to normailty' for short periods, think we all do that, hoping hoping hoping. (((hugs)))

Webbiecat

I know that you are hurting, and may feel like you are being kicked when you are down.

In the scenario you described, YOU started the violence. You threw the bottle at him, and you tried to forcibly take the ring off his finger. He did nothing until you got angrier, and then he grabbed your wrist and twisted it to stop you. And now you are claiming to be the victim? I'm sorry, but I just don't see it in this case.

You know that you need to leave him alone when he is drunk, and you are angry. It doesn't do either of you any good. You need to work on your anger, for your own sake. It sounds like it's eating you alive.

equus

I think once people start trying to win arguments with physical force it gets wrong and scarey, mostly because it does tend to escalate.

Before you think I'm standing any taller I've pushed D up the wall years ago and only months ago emptied a pint of beer over his head!! I'm glad I felt like you - it made me do something about it. I owned my behaviour, I apologised for my behaviour unconditionally, I regained my self respect by starting over respecting my own beliefs. I know what I believe is right and wrong so if I can't respect that in how I act then I'm not respecting self. The upside is I can begin to fully respect myself whenever I choose.

About a fortnight later the same situation arose - EXCEPT before I spoke to him I reminded myself WHO I would be dis-respecting if I behaved in a way I find disgusting. That night was incredible - a storm of frustration blew from D, RIGHT OVER MY HEAD!! The next day I felt so different from the beer chucking night, I was okay, inside and out. It had a big impact on D too - it was a turning point.

Take care of yourself, forgive yourself or it'll be hard to forgive others and do whatever you have to do to help YOU respect your own beliefs.

Cap3

Hi ByAThread,you are no longer all alone.I can relate.Had that burning 'rage" inside of me for years.Anger that is pent up,and builds up inside,grows,and grows and becomes rage,i was told.looking back on those days,i like you felt that my rage was just a slip.Or id tell myself,well hells bells you would have rage to if you were me.I justified it.Thing is though that anger/rage keeps growing,until thinking,and actions change.Rage is uncontrolable.,when letting anger get this far.Lucky that you only grab the plastic bottle....this time.Although he wasnt hurt...this time...its not the item that thrown,its whats in your mind as your throwing it....This is the issue..I too felt that it was all about...him...it was only all about him,becuase i always had my focus on him,or others,so i made it all about them.
For recovery i needed to be tough on myself,,and DO something about this..Own all that im feeling.No excuses..its not about anyone else here.These are my thoughts/feelings,,that i get myself into this rage.I do this to myself.No one peaves me of,without my own permission.I am the problem.And there are a host of solutions.Looking back i was like a child,not getting her own way.Throwing tantrums.I want,i want,i want...Living,Life on lifes terms,i never up until i came to recovery,ever lived that way.Always finding faults,with life,and its folks.Always trying to change something.In recovery programs is where i found the solution.Learning,about,Tolerance.Acceptance,of others.Letting go,of my self-will run riot.Step 2.Came to believe that a Power greater than myself will---restore me to sanity...It was when i came to steps 4-5 i got into the root and causes of my anger/rages.It was when i came to steps 6-9,that i was finally set free from all that "stuff"..And continuing onto steps 10-12,everyday.
A new way to live.
New thoughts
New feelings,
New relationship with God,
Helping others,getting out of myself.This is what changed my life,and me inside.
If i had waited until others changed before i decided to change,i dont know what would have happened.recovery is about me.Today i no longer have that dreadful fear,if another will be hurt by my actions.Rage is serious business.I needed to take it very,very seriously,and get help.There is hope.There is help.Help is there when you decide you have had enough of your own behaviour,just like i have.And DO something before it gets worse.Taking care of MY part in it all,My responsibility,in it,and cleaning my side of all the issues.
Whether he sleeps,is in a stupor,never calls or whatever.its not about him.Its about you,and your recovery.You own your rage.he owns his rage.
Let peace begin with you.
Thanks for letting me share,
My prayers are with you both,
God Bless,and take care!!!

CatsTail

Hi,
By your actions you are as much a part of the problem as he is.

The police would not be on your side on this one.

It's time for some big time help for YOU and never mind him.

Maybe some anger management counselling?

Ngaire