equus

I don't even know if I can put into words what I feel - dismay maybe, not aimed at any person but at how we are, how these things happen, how they go unnoticed.

How does no-one notice an 18yr old boy has started to barracade his his uni bedroom door? Didn't anyone ever call, knock or hear it being unbarracaded? He spent days with the lights off to hide he was there - why didn't even one person notice or sense someone in the dark room? He wasn't unknown, the opposite was true. Is the fact that he was surrounded by otheer 18 yr olds enough to explain that? Was it just because they were only 18 too? But then it happens in adult life, people just disappearing and we all mind our own business. It struck me again this would be hard to imagine in the shared lives of Asia - that there's something terrifyingly wrong with the way we're travelling as a culture. I think there's something wrong people don't notice and daren't ask if someone needs help. I think there's something out of place that we feel ashamed to ask for help.

I think it's horrific that finding an answer in booze, the only thing that took away the fear and pointlessness, didn't happen amongst a wealth of other choices, it wasn't picked out from an array of alternative help. It was picked out by someone alone, too ashamed and worried to seek out help (if he even considered it could be there). It got picked out because at the time IT was the only thing that did help. Why were there no people that offered help BEFORE booze was chosen? D remembers fondly a chemistry tutor who threatened to give him a good kicking if he didn't stop drinking, too little, too violent, far too bloody late - but in all those years he stood out as one person who tried. D woukd still like to track him down too and tell him he's ok.

D has been in the process of letting information out because he knows he can't get the help until he does. It would have been ideal for this process to be with someone's qualified help but they won't offer that. So he's just been doing it piece by piece upstairs.

What's struck me is knowing he'll be far from alone - in reading the things written down, over and over again I know those things were happening in a world full of people.

I don't believe we have stopped caring as a culture, I think most people do care but it strikes me we have lost courage to show it in each other's lives. I don't mean to rescue, I don't mean to take responsibility for any more than showing care, noticing and showing we notice.

What also struck me was whether I have missed just as many people, I know the old lady to one side of me but have never got to know the lady that sometimes lives the other side. At uni I didn't notice or show much care to the 'funny' eastern block students, who wore odd clothes and put cabbage leaves in their bag.

I believe we do care but something has gone wrong, I don't know how to re-find the ability to notice and the courage to show I care.

splendra

Think you just did show that you care....the hard part is finding away to show this care that actually helps something and doesn't get lost in red tape or some other form of nonsence.

One way we can help is thru our actions...humans learn alot by seeing the actions of others...

equus

Yeah - for me and mine, and that's the easy part!! But if we want to care for our own then we have to start caring about each other just as people. All our loved ones are away from us most so much of the time, and even people who have no loved ones deserve care.

I suppose what I mean is when do we start to take note of things that say something is wrong, when do we start to have the courage to show we care even if that person isn't a loved one, maybe isn't even someone we think we know?

Too many people are found dead only when smell of death is noticed, too many people get isolated from life and go unnoticed and that isn't because there are no signs that something is wrong.

gelfling

Several days ago, we were discussing what ever happened to the thought of do unto others as you would have them do unto you. The philosophy nowadays is "hooray for me and to hell with everyone else". All of this does sadden me. The tender hand offered to the helpless/homeless is long gone. If we can't see something in it for us, we turn out backs. We've forgotten that the rewards to helping those who seem lost or discouraged are to be gotten in other ways. However, we want satisfaction now. Not in a few weeks or years to come in the way of someone offering us a helping hand.

My heart aches for D knowing what he's going through and quite possibly having to relive. I just can't imagine the turmoil and emotions this may be stirring up. Glad you're there for him to hold and love and offer support.

huggers

equus

I'm doing the best I can but I think right now he'd rather have a beer!! He's never opened these doors sober, he's said there's more he wants to write but can't remember - I think he's got enough down now. He's written down that he just wants some help to get it to stop.

Part of me thinks he'll drink tonight but although the consequences of that frighten me, I don't think I've ever felt so at peace with it. If this hasn't been TOO hard he won't drink but maybe it is and he will - it shouldn't be done this way. He should have the help to do this not have to do it to get the help.

splendra

Speak these words to people in our breath is the power of life and love that is with in us in hearing people gain knowledge and also understanding

Let us recall that the simple gain wisdom while the fool gains understanding pray you to become a simple fool...

DesertEyes

Good questions, equus.

You don't :-) You start to take note of things when they are _right_. You spend 30 seconds to say hello to the neighbor you have not seen in months. Now. When things are right. You stop for 5 minutes and _listen_ when that neighbor tells you about their family. You do that for the clerk at the store, for the bus driver, for everybody who's path touches yours in your daily life.

That's all you have to do. Some of those people will slowly open up to you and become your friends. Others will just not work out, but still you will have let them know that they are not alone.

Fifteen years ago I took the time to say hello to some folks down the street. Eastern Europe immigrants. The hello's grew into 5, sometimes 10 minute chit-chats about nothing. The oldest girl, then 12, was a bit on the angry side. Dark, intense, confrontive. She took pleasure in putting ruts in my front lawn with her bicycle. I would teasingly threaten her with the garden hose. She hit the teens and bicycles and old neighbors were no longer cool :-)

She was 22 when I saw her again. A failed marriage and a baby under her arm. She cried for days, but she came to the old man with the water hose because she remembered that I would listen. She needed a job so I made some calls.

Now she's working on a college degree. She has a regular job and a car and a little apartment with a roomate. That dark, angry little 12yr old grew up to be 6ft, intensely attractive and is making waves in the L.A. scene as a super model. She also turned out to have a natural talent for art and photography. Yeah, I helped her buy her first camera and gave her a few tips.

When I moved out of L.A. she flew out to Hawaii to this one spot only she knew about, and made me an awesomely stunning photograph which now hangs in my apartment. All I ever did was take a few minutes to _listen_, way back when things were right.

Mike :-)

gelfling

An amazing lesson. Those few minutes with the angry child remained with her for years. You touched her heart back than and she never forgot. Thus, your reward.

susane1408

Is it just the 'busy ness' of our own lives that blinkers us to the warnings signs of problems in others lives?
A few years ago my sister stood up in my BiL's church and told how she had been an ace away from committing suicide; I sat there listening and thought "What!! how did I not know!"
It took me a while to forgive myself for not noticing something was wrong with my sister, it certainly taught me to be more observant of those who are close to me.
Courage, Yes, the courage to knock on that door and risk rejection and to realise that we just might have to give of ourselves; to really listen when we ask "How are you?"

This is a huge hurdle for D to negotiate with his history, I can appreciate your worries that he may drink and I hope he gains another victory in his fight but I'm glad you've found some peace within if he does.

equus

I agree but where did we get so worried about something which isn't exactly dangerous? There's more real danger in a night out in town, or an argument out of hand between people that know each other.

It's just become 'culturally' risky to 'intrude' into someone's life and I don't think that's healthy. It isn't an invasion to ask unless we don't listen to and respect the answer.

I know I once thought of asians as very nosey, now I realise they are the only people who know where we came from, know what our parents did for a living, know how we met, I realise that's a protection in this world. It isn't foolish, I think it makes more sense than our distance.

I know - he's had the courage to face it and what ever happens next i think it will be that courage which sees him through. What will be will be - it may be a hard road, he might make it a harder one, who doesn't sometimes? But I think his guts are what willdetermine the end result, and that he wants his life back SO much.

cwohio

i think, for me, is that during the height of the turmoil in my life i tended to isolate and therefore, "forgot" to reach out to others. i am making it a point now to connect again - we have a young couple that just moved in our neighborhood and i bought a pot of flowers and took it over and welcomed them to the neighborhood and introduced myself. these are the things that are in me, but had been buried when i got myself so wrapped up in my own little world of hurt.

good thread equus!

equus

Yeah - I know this feeling really well, but it's more than just one way - my dismay is that it isn't the cultural norm anymore to reach out to those who have withdrawn. I worry because I know how easy it is to isolate - now I wonder whether it should be that easy, or whether perhaps we need peope to ask after us and show they care.

We need to start to know each other for sure, and maybe we need to notice those we don't know too.

minnie

I've been having similar thoughts and discussions about the selfishness that seems apparent in today's society and I must admit that it gets me quite down. But, I have decided that I must keep my side of the street clean and not get to bogged down in what others are or aren't doing.

It's interesting that you should bring this up now, as I have just spent the day visiting relatives. The main reason I went (they live a couple of hours away) was that my cousin has just left her husband and is back living with her pretty disfunctional mother. From what I heard via my Mum was that her husband was controlling and manipulative and I recognised a lot of my situation in hers. We aren't particularly close, although we were as children. So I went and spent some time with her and I know now that I am the only person she knows who really understands what she has been through. She is so grateful that I spent the time and over the moon that she can come over here for a few days next week to get some breathing space. I say that not to blow my own trumpet, but just to demonstrate how my experience of the past few years has changed me. I would never have done that 2 years ago, to my shame. We can make a difference in our own world if we only take a bit of time out for others.

(((hugs))) to you and D. I can't imagine how difficult it is for him at the moment and I truly hope that he can find some catharis at the end of all of this.

Thinking of you both.

equus

I'm glad you did that!! Isn't it funny how we confess what we've done wrong with more ease than confessing when we know something was right?

D still hasn't finished!! But to be honest there's more on paper now than he's ever shared sober before - definately more than he's shared with the doc! He keeps taking a break to play with his computer.

He hasn't drank tonight but I have a feeling it will be rougher tomorrow while he's alone in the house. This has dredged up so much and I feel utterly inadequate to know how to support him dealing with it. The worst part is how it's made him feel about needing help, especially as that's far off certain.

minnie

equus - Alright, I'll rise to the challenge. I did something else I'm proud of today. Stay with me, this gets a little complicated. I was with a guy for 10 years before I started seeing the alcoholic in my life. His brother is travelling in South America with his girlfriend. My ex is in Japan visiting his wife's family and my brother has gone to join them for a week. I got an email from my bro tonight to say that ex's brother is in intensive care in Peru after collapsing on a bike ride. First thoughts heart attack, second thoughts DVT. Whatever, it's pretty serious. Ex is trying to get a flight over there, but being hampered because of needing to change in Miami and he can't cos of Wilma. I got on the phone straight away to my ex's parents, not that I could do anything, but just to let them know that I'm there to lean on. That phone call was much appreciated and made the world seem a bit smaller. Only took half an hour out of my day and made a big difference in someone elses life.

As I always say, it's a matter of perspective. Big picture thinking never gets me in trouble.

*edit* something else I did - my recent ex's new fiancee (remember that story?) emailed me to say they are still together. Instead of telling her what for, like I would have done in the past, I simply sent her the link for here and said that I will always listen in confidence. I have learned that sometimes people need to go back to learn to move on.

equus

Good on you Minnie!! I bet the phonecall did make a huge difference. I know sometimes the best of all is when someone you didn't expaect still shows they care.

The world's not all a bad place - it just scares me sometimes how much we except our ever more cut off lives. It's a way of life that seems to result in too many casualties.

I thought of lots of people I missed at uni, people I wish I'd talked to a little bit more - but I did talk to D, I knew he liked cartoons and it made a difference. Even though I didn't know it all those years inbetween he says it made a difference. Maybe I got something right too.