equus

I was thinking about obsession - casting back through my life, wondering if I've always had a tendency to be obsessed.

As a child I wanted to ride and finding means to learn took most of my efforts and thought for around 6 years. As a young adult I became a groom - then I started to really learn to ride. Again it absorbed most of my waking time. At uni years later I'd get caught in an idea and took pleasure in all the periodicals I could raid to quench my curiosity - I didn't care much if I missed lectures as long as I could chase what I'd started to 'get'. After uni I worked in applied behavioural analysis with autistic children, I worked as a team leader under a consultant, often divising programmes and working on teaching styles. The fascination of deconstructing intelligence and understanding into bite sized chunks to teach absorbed most of my waking moments. And so it goes on, ideas, new things nearly all have a single center - to learn harder, quench curiosity, chase understanding, catch a snowflake of inter-connections and feel it.

Uhmmmmmm.......

When I'm told what a word means I go and look - I just do, it often surprises me the words I use without knowing what they mean, or thinking I do when I don't.

So chasing, catching, feeling, being absorbed isn't obsession UNLESS the idea is fixed, or feeling unwanted, UNLESS it is unreasonable, UNLESS it is compulsive.

That's a different measure, there's freedom to feel and think, to worry (although mostly I'd agree that's unwise), to even allow ourselves to be absorbed in our own learning - whatever learning we choose (lord knows I go where something seems useful or catches my eye!).

Would that make the warning of obsession fixedness, not wanting the thoughts and feelings, unless it has become unreasonable - or unless it's out of control.

I like that! I'm free to chase my own thoughts but I feel like I know what to watch for.

Jazzman

Equus - You truly are a very deep thinker and a master at articulating your thoughts. I wish I we're half as smart as you. The effort you spend on analyzing certain topics must be exhausting. I applaud your seemingly endless supply of brain energy.

equus

OI!!! Don't do yourself down - I was a sh!t shovelling groom for years, prior to that had done time as a regular urchin smoking ciggies while sat on roadside curbs or scaring the bjazus out of drivers by bonnet slapping!!

I like 'stuff', I look at something that appears to be a brick wall and I like figuring how to get past it. It's practice not talent - just like the horses, figuring stuff out means trying again and again till you crack it then realising the awesome amount not yet known and begining all over.

All you have to do is enjoy your own curiosity, be less afraid of failure than never having tried and not to believe what you're told you can't do until you've given it the try you wanted to.

One thing I found helpful was to look at history. I don't know about the USA but here in blighty 'arrogance' or 'over confidence' is like a cardinal sin - it angers people more than reality can explain. So I reckon we're brought up to never think out of line or dare to imagine we can exceed the expectations of others. BUT when you look at those in history who have succeeded they seem to do so by both having the confidence to act together with teh humility to learn and keep learning. Imagine the arrogance of Ghandi to think he could first change South Africa then his home country India? And yet it never took his humility to learn.

I don't dream of changing much except my small corner but I'll be damned if I should cower out of fear of thought itself, or expression, or the few who are driven to rage by their own perception of arrogance.

Ideas are made to be shared - mine, your's, their's, our's, that's how we evolved and made civilisation.

Stop hiding Jazzman - I can spot a thinker at twenty paces, I've got x-ray vision!!!

Jazzman

Great! Minnie can read my mind and you have x-ray vision... I give up, NOT!

Ok, I need to tell where I’m going with this. I worked for UK owned Telecom Company for 5 years and it was a very interesting mix of Brits and Americans in a corporate culture based in the US, that was a subsidiary of a corporate culture based in the UK, (parent company). I was always curious about the different mindsets I observed between the two cultures. Americans seem to be more of a "roll your sleeves up" and get the job done with out spending too much time worrying about minor details. The Brits seemed to be the detail oriented thinkers and would spend way too much time worrying about the details, (my perception mind you, and might very well be totally wrong). We Americans would always be amazed at the Brits intellectual tenacity over details "WE" considered minor. We coined the phrase "British analysis paralysis" and figured it was simply a cultural difference between our two cultures.

I would love to hear your thoughts on my theory. (notice the use of the word theory, and NOT the word facts) Basically, would you consider this a cultural difference, or maybe just and individual difference?

Hey Minnie - chime here if you like, would love the hear your opinion as well.

reader

Equus, too am a horse lover and owner that is a healthy "obsession". I love your deep observations. I was a philosophy major in college so I enjoy your mindset. Jazzman u are very bright also. I love they intelligent exchanges, I don't get much of it in the backwards wood country. I like your suggestion Equus about allowing natural curiosity to encourage learning. Isn't that what recovery is all about learning from our past mistakes and avoiding our "unhealthy" obsessions. Take Care, Kerry

equus

It's me down to a tee!! I think your theory rocks but it depends where it's applied.

I won't give up my pedantic nature in a hurry because it reminds me not to jump to conclusions too quickly - it also reminds me I don't have to have a full solution but I need to be aware what I've got is only a part.

For example (something often discussed here) the causes of alcoholism. My pedantic nature sees threads - multiple threads. Genetic? Yes but not entirely. Choice? Yes, but maybe a choice made from a different physical and/or mental basis. Social? Yes, but our perception of our surroundings is dependent on some areas of physical make up of the brain, so social can rarely ever be extracted in isolation.

Then my inclination for detail pulls at another thread, a tiny detail but one which could prove to be crucial in understanding. What if 'Alcohol Dependancy' is actually two different disorders (ie the label covers 2 or more distinct groups)? That's often how diagnosis goes 'consumption' once covered just about anything that made a person cough! then came TB, Cancer, etc - they found distinct groups within what was first thought to be an homogenus group labelllde as having 'consumption'. This happens in nearly all diagnostic groups over large periods of time.

Now either that can paralyse me - stop reading, stop thinking (YUK!!) or it can liberate me. Knowing enough to know it's beyond complex I change my expectations of what I will get from reading. What matters isn't to find a right or wrong answer but to utalise information to guide a 'most likely guess'. To allow myself to think in terms of multiple probabilities rather than absolutes. Then comes the important part - action. In this example my action is to be able to better understand why alcoholics SHOULD be seen as individuals, and on occasion to be able to argue that case here. It also allows me to be cautious in judgement - even without religion I can maintain the sentiment of 'There but for the grace of god go I'. It allows me sound argument to say to my husband to neither ignore the choices he's made because they will have played a part OR to entirely blame himself as other things have played a part too.

I'm just about to enter the fight with a pschiatric team re them refusing his referal. He's an electronics engineer, he fixes my computer, I'm an advocate for a living - I fight the system! My pedantic nature made me look deeper, deep enough that I believe I have what I need not to be overwhelmed by a psychiatric team!!

However I do think our culture is too static, with people paralysed by fear of failure - if they look to details just to avoid action or to make sure they cannot fail then it is JUST a delay. If you look for the same details to make increasingly precise guesses, you can act confidently without having to believe you know everything.

I think people over here are terrified of being wrong (some people - I think too many).

Edit - anyone else ever find they swap words like hear and here when they type? I never do it with handwriting!!

equus

Reader I'm jealous!! I've thought for a year or two now that I might like philosophy but I get lazy and never buy any philosophy books!! I would sort of like to do a course rather than read dry. Off course then I probably wouldn't keep to the course but it'd help to get started!

Jazzman

Equus - OK, now I'm REALLY going to tell you where I'm going with this. You have quoted Gandhi before in previous posts. I'm curious, do you meditate? The reason I ask is because years ago I was introduced to a book about Transcendental Meditation. We’re talking "teens" years ago. The curious bloke I am, I read it and practiced the techniques. The whole goal is to stop your minds "internal dialogue", (constant voice in your head of an ever continuous consious thought process) in an effort to basically give your brain a rest. Never kept up with it because I have another technique I put in practice almost on a daily. When I play my guitar my "internal dialogue" stops. I concentrate on the music only and most of playing an instrument is "muscle memory" anyway. My brain basically takes a breather of everything else that has been or is on my mind. I have often told people that playing my guitar is therapeutic because it stops my internal dialogue, (get funny looks when I say that).

Since you say (loose quote) "It's me down to a tee!", I'm wondering if you ever stop your "internal dialogue" to give your brain a rest from time to time?

equus

I watch junk telly!! Mind off, and I often fall asleep!

Although it's funny that you should mention meditation - I recently read a book by the Dalai Lama and he suggests it as a discipline. I'm toying with the idea....

I think one thing is that I quite like me, I've been told more than once I think too much but I'm not aware of that causing me a problem. The bits about me I want to change are things like jealousy and hanging onto fairness in a world that isn't! I also would like to be a little less hot headed when my buttons get pushed! being less hot headed is probably why I'm thinking about meditation.

Jazzman

Also an excellent techique!! LOL!!!
But in my experience, not nearly as effective....

splendra

equus-

As one who has been told over and over that I think too much I am telling you that you think too much...

equus

But - I like me that way! I change the bits I don't like not the ones I do. Believe it or not it has given me the most pleasure through my life and it's taken me these decades to learn it ain't a crime.

Too much by what standard? By my own the journey has just begun.....

Cynay

Eqqus take a bow!!!:bravo

Im always told I think too much or when I express a thought... just comes from no where I get looks like ..

Where did you come up with that.... *shrugs*

When they talk about thinking inside the box I get confused.... did not know there was a box and just as sure know I dont want to find it.

Jazzman

Splendra, Can't blame me for tryin' right?

equus

I think I'm missing a point here?? Trying what? I thought we were just swapping ideas? Me confuddled.....

splendra

I do not know what jazzman meant... over the years though I have began to see some patterns of obsessive thought in me and have begun to start ignoring them...it leaves room for other things such as creativity, peace, joy. I look for thoughts that have a bottom line if they don't have one I leave them alone. Bottom line.....

The silence is good....

Jazzman

My point does not have so much to do with thinking too much or over analyzing or thinking out side of the box. I stumbled on to what I have found to be a very effective way to stop my "internal dialouge" and have really come to appreciate the benefits I get from it. Just trying to share w/ my buds... I like the way splendra puts it, the silence is good.

equus

I think that's the thing - people are different and that has to be okay because life is sometimes a team sport (hence so many ruddy groups for everything), we need to borrow each others thinking sometimes.

It can be a murky line between healthy interest and obsession, murky enough that I looked! But a bit like D with his drinking if I did a cost benefit analysis I sure as hell wouldn't give up my way of thinking.

I've always been this way but I hid or didn't turn up at school, I learned young it's not popular! I could see why bullying would be unpopular, or name calling, or sneaking behind a friends back but not curiosity - I was hiding something I wasn't ACTUALLY ashamed of. It took me years to learn I'm allowed and can even be free to enjoy it openly.

I'm not prescribing it but I think it's worth a go for fun, for me it's the substance of existance - I suppose my purpose to be, I enjoy it. I know I piggy back off those that went before, I know time will make the best of my thoughts foolish, but it feels so much a part of being a human being. It's the butter, milk, pepper and salt in the mash potato of life!

splendra

Don't let always put you in a box with a lock on it... if you argue in favor of your limitations they will be yours to keep. said wraped in a hug.....let the only thing you always do be breathing in life....

equus

It doesn't - more an observation that it's nothing new - scroll up, I am contemplating meditation...

I hope I change through all life but changing things that I genuinely don't like - not for social pressure.