equus

On the way back from the airport last week I told my Dad about what was happening with D. I left it up to him what he told my mum but said I trusted him not to let D get hurt - my Dad decided it was best not to tell Mum anything!! (good Man!!). I couldn't ever ask my Dad to keep a secret because he would see that as disloyal but this way it gave him the option of saying my mother might be more likely to forget and hurt someone by accident.

Anyway I thought on Tuesday night I should give him some update - hardly all good news but better than when we last spoke, so I wrote an email because he spends lots of time on the comp and my mother can't get into email.

He hadn't replied so I rang and asked him if he'd got it - he said he had on Tuesday but had been busy with the church leaflet, then added it was very worrying!

My Dad spent my childhood hating me because of my Mum's stirring - it's taken a decade to get the friendship and love we have now. Then I get to come back down to earth with a bump!!

I want to scream at him the BASICS of love - you ANSWER emails like that, you bloody answer them!!

When I emailed to say I was marrying D they got the mail and decided to reply after their holiday, I rang eventually a week later but my Mum asked if I could ring back as they were doing dinner.

Why don't they know? Why don't they know you should answer on the day when your daughter tells you she's getting married? Why doesn't my Dad KNOW he should answer an email when your daughter tells you her husband's waiting for a psychiatric referal and has lost the remainder of his job?

I know they don't know - I know my Dad wouldn't do it on purpose. I'm 34 not 12 it's stupid just to want your Dad's attention NOW not when he's finished his leaflet!

Why do I need to talk so much? I post too much here, I want a reply from my Dad. What's wrong with me that I'm still attention seeking like a snotty nosed spoilt brat?

cwohio

equus - i can kind of relate a bit. my dad was pretty quiet when i was growing up and i finally got the nerve to write and ask him to give me some insight into my mother's alcoholism when they were married and told him i was going to counseling. i wanted to get his perspective and feelings so that i could better understand myself, behaviors, etc. i put this note in his father's day card. he called me about a month and a half later asking for my sister's new address since she had moved and then added oh by the way i got your note and i didn't forget about you, i will write some things down. that was in late july and now with everything that has transpired in my life since then i would still like for him to share but so far, no response. i know what you are feeling - it is that little kid demanding attention that we didn't get.

vent away girl!!!!!

GettingBy

Hi Equus,

First off, let me tell you that I know about the family you speak of, because I was born into almost the same one! My parents rarely give prompt attention to things I see as "important." It's not that they don't care, they just see things differently than me. They respond however they feel. If something I say makes them uncomfortable, they usually don't respond. As they see it, no answer is better than an awkward or wrong answer.

So I accept them as they are. If I tell them something, I let go of my expectations of their response. It really saves us all from alot of senseless rows. Their still wonderful parents, and I know they love me to pieces... but they are just different from me, and I've learned to love them for that!

I guess the other thing I've learned is that if I really want a prompt response... I call them, or go and see them face to face. Emails can easily get lost or forgotten about so I save them for simple communication only.

Thinking of you,
Shannon

cwohio

shannon - wow - acceptance is the key here i think! bravo and i must work on that in all aspects of my life. thanks for the eye opener this morning!

bikewench

Hey... ;o)


your singing my song.. ;o)

Dont' know about you... but I keep looking cause I never got it in the first place... and that sets me up...

but.. I'm aware of it now.. so... I can take steps to either let myself down gently... check my expectations... or don't even look there in the first place...

I always have to remind myself that my parents suffer from the same disease I do... and they didn't get the help I got... so..

I know now where to go for my love and my validation...
and I try to love my parents regardless... cause that helps me.. ;o)

but... there is no denying the inner child pain..

I just have to learn to parent myself... better...

you just keep doing what your doing Equus...

equus

I know it wasn't on purpose - it was just a rant, at myself mostly.

My Dad is lovely (now) face to face, as a kid he believed everything my Mum said and from the age of around 3 he thought I was the spawn of satan sent to destroy the family! It's taken so many years to get the relationship I now have with him - it took years to forgive him and realise he was just scared I really was trying to destroy the family, he thougt it was his job to discipline that out of me.

Apart from rare cooked up excuses (like a lift back from teh airport) I can't see my Dad alone and when my Mum's there if she isn't center of attention the whole time she starts doing stuff - like saying we're ignoring her or doing something wicked just to cry an apology and be forgiven. There's no way I'd discuss any of this in her earshot!! I wouldn't have told my Dad if I hadn't been 99% sure he wouldn't either (and he won't - my Dad would die rather than break his word).

I also wondered if the email was lost which was why I rang but after a couple of minutes my Mum picked up too. It was long enough to know he got it though - and for me to ask him to reply (which he still hasn't done!).

BLAH!! I know things are the way they are - I'm just mad at myself for wanting or thinking he'd get back!

Cwohio - yep, that sounds about right! Does it EVER get any easier? - Sorry, I know the answer to that, it's already easier than it used to be!

cwohio

yep - bikewench made some good points too - i really don't let it bother me that much but i can still use some work in that area. thanks for this post - ESH is a good thing!

TexasGirl

Hi Equus -- Shannon said some great things, but I want to contribute from another view point. I'm one of those people...if something makes me uncomfortable or I don't know what to say, I just don't say it. I hate that I do that, but I try to avoid my own discomfort. I don't guess I've ever been in a situation exactly like yours, but for example, if I know someone who has recently lost a loved one, I want so bad to make everything better for them and bake them something nice, but I am too scared that I won't say the right thing, so I just don't go visit. It's taking the easy way out. This doesn't change your dad, but maybe it gives you insight into what he is thinking.

equus

That's the truth - and I've done the same many times. You're right it may well be that, and that I can understand because of my own mistakes.

I know my Dad has a good heart - I just had a brief tantrum!! *Gets out of pram and picks up scattered toys*

FormerDoormat

I think they know. They probably just don't know how to handle situations that make them worry or uncomfortable. So they do nothing and hope the issue resolves itself. It's their own form of denial.

And it's NOT stupid to want your Dad's attention "now" when you're going through a difficult time. It's a pattern that was established when we were children--something would upset us and we'd run to our parents for support, guidance, and protection. It's a pattern that continues well into adulthood.

Whenever I'm confused, hurt, embarrassed, scared, or feeling lost, I still run to my mom and, until recently, my dad (I miss him so). The difference is that now that I'm an adult, I realize that they're only human and they can't always know what I need. So, when that happens, I try not to hold it against them, I simply ask for what I need.

Why don't you pick up the phone and tell your dad you need a shoulder to lean on?

minnie

Oh, she's clever! I forgot about that lesson I've learned. I have always been a tough cookie - I had to be when I was young. My Mum was very ill with PND after my brother was born and I learned not to rock the boat or make any emotional "demands". As I got older, it never occurred to me to reach out for help as I thought I should be able to solve my problems alone. So I didn't ask for what I needed. Guess what? I never GOT what I needed either. Things are very different within my family now and I am forever grateful to the person who reminded me to ask.

equus

I did that yesterday - we had enough time for me to tell him I wanted him to answer the email before my Mum came on the phone. I can't ring him up and talk to him because my Mum's always there.

Anyway to be honest right now I don't really want to spare the energy - my best mate is home from holiday and she does talk to me.

Yesterday D decided to tackle town alone. It took him half the day to get out the house but he did - he went and got signed on for unemployment. I had a lovely surprising phonecall with him saying he was going to walk round town and all the fear was going. An hour later I had an very strange phonecall with descriptions of how people were smiling back and him taking off his sunglasses to see if it made a difference - he said it did. He was still sober - then I had the last really weird phonecall (still sober) - then nothing till he came home at 9pm plastered!!

So what to do today? Nothing? Go and beg the docs? Try and ask D - but he's curled up like a peanut shaking? Get mad? Get sad? Or ring in work book a days A/L and try and think while I post here - I chose the last one!

When he came home he said he had to grab fear by the throat, that it was an epiphany, that I lived in a beautiful world full of good people, that he drank because he was so terrified to go in the pub, that he was sorry, that he wants the help, that he's scared because he'll have to look at himself and he hates himself - oh and that he thinks it'll all be ok now because he knows people smile at him and he likes the city.

He's addicted to alcohol, with enough actions and sober time to show he's trying to stay sober, at the same time he's going nuts and waiting for help.

Any answers?

minnie

(((equus)))

You and I know that this is more than just the alcohol. All the things he said to you scream self-medication to me.

I have to be honest and say that if I were in your situation, I would be on the phone getting him help. This is not a question of enabling - that would be doing something the he could do for himself. Can he do this for himself? Doesn't sound like it.

You are both in my thoughts - I'm not sure I could cope in your situation.

Love

M
xxx

equus

I know he's safe right now - I'm here not going to work. I want to see if he perks up a bit because he often does then figure out the answer to the question above. Last night he said he wanted me to go to his doc alone and ask them to help because he thought I could do it better alone, but his doc is part time and not back till Monday. I could try another doc but I don't really know what happened yet. I don't know if another doc will take me seriously - when he rang yesterday it was odd right from the start but I thought it was maybe a good surprise kind of odd. D was being D trying to fix it himself rather than wait and the first call sounded like he might actually be doing that (I think because he thought that!).

How do I explain it's all wrong? The details he goes into about each person he's passing - him describing their clothes and experimenting taking his sunglasses off. By the last phonecall I just asked him to come home because I thought he'd go with anybody, he was trying to talk to people, I thought he'd get mugged but he was so sure it was a miracle and he had to keep going. Then I had 3 hours with his phone ringing out, I knew most likely he was drinking - THAT'S FEAR! I think I will go to the docs and beg, doing it isn't going to feel any more wrong than not doing it and doing it is safer!

When it comes to coping I just am - my worry, fear all of it isn't killing me - it's survivable.

minnie

Hon, his thinking is just so far from rational in the way you describe it. I'm don't want to scare you any more than you already are and it doesn't seem that he's in any immediate danger of harm. Luckily for him, you are around to make sure that doesn't happen.

If you don't get any joy from the docs, you could try MIND and see if they have any suggestions.

equus

He has perked up a bit and definately doesn't want me to go to the docs! He wants to write a letter instead so his doc will get it first thing Monday am. I'm here for the next 3 days and will probably book Monday off. He wants to go back to APAS and I've said I'll go with him today.

Things trigger this - inbetween he is much better, me missing a call home triggered it when I was in Portugal, him being alone it town, signing on triggered it yesterday.

So far I've held first regard to his wishes re docs, counselling, etc and I think that's built the trust and confidence in him to get him to access help. Right now - this morning I won't break that (yet). I'll go with him to APAS instead and give him the chance to write his letter in his own words. I will ring MIND when I get chance though and I may change my mind re the docs.

It might be wrong but it's the best decision I can make at the moment.

Thanks so much for chatting to me Minnie!! It made a big difference, especially while waiting to see if he would rally himself a little.

minnie

I don't think there is a right or wrong, and anyway, who am I to judge? My only concern is about whether this is an alcohol thing or something else.

Hang in there. And I know I don't have to tell you this, but post as much as you need. You're not on your own.

equus

Thanks minnie! It does make a huge difference!

It's both, he's dealing with both at once - they don't cancel each other out but I wish they did. For me it's always a case of trying to give maximum independence to him re the alcohol but enough support for whatever's happening mental health wise. If he wasn't addicted to alcohol he probably wouldn't drink when he's dotty. I also think he shown enough effort to be safe saying if he wasn't going dotty he wouldn't drink. Then there's the info the alcohol counsellor passed on that they think the alcohol aggrevates some psychiatric psychosis (loss of reality NOT violence) that he otherwise controls himself. I'll be honest - it isn't a barrel of laughs right now.

He's got passed his panic early this morning - he's having a chat with his Mum now on the phone. He's so loved and I hope that makes some difference, I hope he can feel it.

susane1408

Damn, I missed this earlier.
Equus I'm so sorry D's having a hard time right now, you take care you don't get too exhausted physically and emotionally. I know it's hard.
I feel Minnie is on the button with the self medication thoughts. D probably wouldn't have drunk if he hadn't got too wired about what was going on inside his head. It must be so difficult for a super-intelligent person like D to cope with this illness; and difficult for you too. You must feel like you're wading through deep mud, well I know that's how I felt anyway.
I also felt like taking some of the medical experts by the throat and shouting "do something NOW" Not a good idea but it would have made me feel better.
Wish I could hug you and tell you everything is going to be alright, like my mum did when I was small; wish I could make everything better. I had a bit of a cry when I read your posts, in a small way I know what you are going through. Stay strong my dear but have a good cry too when you need it.
I'm so glad you have your nursey mate to lean on, we all need those kind of mates.
Susane

cwohio

(((equus))) - i can't imagine how you must be feeling at this point. you are so blessed to have each other!

big hugs coming your way across the pond!!!