Who's right in this situation?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 346
Who's right in this situation?
We were at a party last night. Friends, both active A's, sat at our table and proceeded to drink themselves into oblivion. Our other friends and we watched in amazement that a person could actually drink that much and not be dead.
On our way home RAH says: She enables him to drink because she's right there by his side drinking with him. She's the enabler because she knows he has a problem.
I say: It's his disease. It's his to manage. No one's forcing booze down his throat. If she was spiking his drink and he didn't know it then she would have responsibility. It would be the same as if I drove a car without glasses and hit a tree. I can't see without glasses -- that's on me. If someone put a gun to my head and told me to drive with no glasses then they would have responsibility. Maturing into adulthood means other people stop being our life managers and we start doing it ourselves.
Who's right? Is his position the position of AA?
On our way home RAH says: She enables him to drink because she's right there by his side drinking with him. She's the enabler because she knows he has a problem.
I say: It's his disease. It's his to manage. No one's forcing booze down his throat. If she was spiking his drink and he didn't know it then she would have responsibility. It would be the same as if I drove a car without glasses and hit a tree. I can't see without glasses -- that's on me. If someone put a gun to my head and told me to drive with no glasses then they would have responsibility. Maturing into adulthood means other people stop being our life managers and we start doing it ourselves.
Who's right? Is his position the position of AA?
To Life!
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 9,293
As far as I know, AA has no outside positions.
But, I agree. He is responsible for his decisions. That includes the decision to drink himself into oblivian.
She isn't helping; that's for sure. Is it enabling? Probably. My son's a heroin addict. I'm not going to shoot heroin with him. That only models the behavior and sends the message that it's ok. So, *I* think she's sending the wrong message.
But, it is still his responsibility.
BTW: did it occure to either of you that she is an alcoholic too?
Either way, it sounds like a sick codependent relationship to me. JMHO.
Shalom!
But, I agree. He is responsible for his decisions. That includes the decision to drink himself into oblivian.
She isn't helping; that's for sure. Is it enabling? Probably. My son's a heroin addict. I'm not going to shoot heroin with him. That only models the behavior and sends the message that it's ok. So, *I* think she's sending the wrong message.
But, it is still his responsibility.
BTW: did it occure to either of you that she is an alcoholic too?
Either way, it sounds like a sick codependent relationship to me. JMHO.
Shalom!
Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 727
Lets see.I respect Rah,s beliefs,but don't share them...smile...If i go by Rah,s perceptive,if both are alcoholics,and drinking side by side,if he feels that she enabled him,that would also mean that he enabled her?Wondering why the comment was made about the gal,and not the guy also..lol.No "one" person can speak,on behalf of AA,as a whole..Life on lifes terms says that will be drinking no matter where the alcoholic goes,and no matter who does it.I cannot control anothers disease.I cannot cure it.And i didn't cause anothers disease.This disease,or even for the folks that don't believe that alcoholism is a disease,bottom line is,this all has to do with whats inside of another human being.The person themselves.Its an inside job.Being menally,phyically and spiritually sick,themselves.I can only influnce another,if they let me do this,and its agreeable to them.Can't make or influnce folks that don't "want", to do something.Thats for sure,for i tried.lol.When i stoped drinking,hub continued on.,for years.When finally i stoped taking anothers responsibility for them,and focus on what im doing and being responsible,for myself and my actions,life got better for me.In the Big Book,it tells me that i can get well regardless,of what others are doing.Whether i have a job,or no job,wife or no wife,etc,,etc..This is the truth for me,to.Change is an inside job,no matter what others are doing.
Last edited by Cap3; 07-24-2005 at 06:38 AM. Reason: adding to
Searching and tripping
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Back in my head
Posts: 1,194
If they are all sitting there and drinking themselves silly and if no one has made the admission of being an alcoholic and having a problem, why does the wife have to take the responsibility of being the enabler?
On the other hand, if she is complaining of his drinking and is worried, she's not helping him one bit by drinking in front of him, eventhough it's his problem. I think most spouses of alcoholics don't drink...the ones I know anyway. Like someone eating cheesecake in front of me and expecting me not to grab the rest of the cake and run away and eat it in a closet by myself.
The other thought I had was that RAH needs to focus on himself and not others. One of the things I've seen with my hubby in the past was his cockeyness and self-righteousness about other drinkers. Then he fell off the wagon and didn't want anyone making any comments about him.
His total attention should be on his recovery and not anyone else's drinking problems. We also made it a point to go places where there was very little alcohol or none. Exposure to the addiction is a great temptation. Even our son with 7 months recovery still refuses to go to bars or restaurants that serve alcohol. He doesn't want to take any chances because they all have that familiar odor that is the sweet essence of the bottle.
Blessings
On the other hand, if she is complaining of his drinking and is worried, she's not helping him one bit by drinking in front of him, eventhough it's his problem. I think most spouses of alcoholics don't drink...the ones I know anyway. Like someone eating cheesecake in front of me and expecting me not to grab the rest of the cake and run away and eat it in a closet by myself.
The other thought I had was that RAH needs to focus on himself and not others. One of the things I've seen with my hubby in the past was his cockeyness and self-righteousness about other drinkers. Then he fell off the wagon and didn't want anyone making any comments about him.
His total attention should be on his recovery and not anyone else's drinking problems. We also made it a point to go places where there was very little alcohol or none. Exposure to the addiction is a great temptation. Even our son with 7 months recovery still refuses to go to bars or restaurants that serve alcohol. He doesn't want to take any chances because they all have that familiar odor that is the sweet essence of the bottle.
Blessings
Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sussex, NJ
Posts: 1,331
To me an "enabler" is one who makes it easy for the A to continue his/her life virtually problem free. For example:
Waking him/her up to get to work on time.
Making sure he/she has money.
Making sure clothes are clean and he/she looks presentable.
Someone who drinks with an A is just that .... a drinking buddy (be it husband/wife/friend etc)
An enabler helps the alcoholic by making sure their life from the outside looks quite normal.
What happens to the enabler is that they begin to live/breathe and do everything for the Alcoholic and neglect themselves and that is where all enablers get into trouble.
So no, the wife was not enabling her husband to drink ...... she was simply being his drinking buddy and I guess having a good time? But on the other hand she may be an enabler also. It's hard to say. He, the husband, may also be an enabler if she is an alcoholic also. Their disease feeds off each other.
Waking him/her up to get to work on time.
Making sure he/she has money.
Making sure clothes are clean and he/she looks presentable.
Someone who drinks with an A is just that .... a drinking buddy (be it husband/wife/friend etc)
An enabler helps the alcoholic by making sure their life from the outside looks quite normal.
What happens to the enabler is that they begin to live/breathe and do everything for the Alcoholic and neglect themselves and that is where all enablers get into trouble.
So no, the wife was not enabling her husband to drink ...... she was simply being his drinking buddy and I guess having a good time? But on the other hand she may be an enabler also. It's hard to say. He, the husband, may also be an enabler if she is an alcoholic also. Their disease feeds off each other.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,579
Originally Posted by Beautiful
We were at a party last night. Friends, both active A's, sat at our table and proceeded to drink themselves into oblivion. Our other friends and we watched in amazement that a person could actually drink that much and not be dead.
On our way home RAH says: She enables him to drink because she's right there by his side drinking with him. She's the enabler because she knows he has a problem.
I say: It's his disease. It's his to manage. No one's forcing booze down his throat. If she was spiking his drink and he didn't know it then she would have responsibility.
On our way home RAH says: She enables him to drink because she's right there by his side drinking with him. She's the enabler because she knows he has a problem.
I say: It's his disease. It's his to manage. No one's forcing booze down his throat. If she was spiking his drink and he didn't know it then she would have responsibility.
Yes; I agree with what you said. Does your RAH call the husband an enabler, too for the same reasons?
I shouldn't even go here; but what was HIS response if/when you told HIM not to drink when he was active..................chances are I can guess the answer.
Live, and let live..........
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 346
It is probably the first experience that we have had with this couple socially in quite a long time. My RAH and his ex and this couple were quite tight drinking buddies for a long time but that's before RAH quite drinking and almost 11 years ago. I think they are both A's.
It looks to me like a double edge sword. I think that RAH was making an observation -- also they have a brand new sports car and are active while RAH is sober and we are struggling. I am glad that he said what he said because it gave us time to share communication and not judgment. Also, RAH did eventually leave the table when they started drinking wine by the 16oz tumblers and sought out our other friends.
So, I guess it was a good experience, yet a reminder for RAH that he is one drink away from the lunacy we saw across from us. Also a great example for me to see just how far we've come.
It looks to me like a double edge sword. I think that RAH was making an observation -- also they have a brand new sports car and are active while RAH is sober and we are struggling. I am glad that he said what he said because it gave us time to share communication and not judgment. Also, RAH did eventually leave the table when they started drinking wine by the 16oz tumblers and sought out our other friends.
So, I guess it was a good experience, yet a reminder for RAH that he is one drink away from the lunacy we saw across from us. Also a great example for me to see just how far we've come.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: DooDooville, USA
Posts: 453
Yeah, that is a good "measuring tool" to show you how far you have come, both of you and be PROUD of that!! Good for you.
My xabf wouldn't drink around me because I don't drink. I love to dance and I go to dance clubs alot and just drink water with lemon and dance. He liked going with me to those because, since I didn't drink, he "felt more safe" not drinking in a club.
It was when he wasn't with me, that he would drink. Me, personally, if I had an AH and he was trying to quit or knowing that he had a problem with it,.......I wouldn't drink in front of him at all. I would think that it would be just a huge temptation and that they'd rationalize and say "Ah, one or two won't kill me. I feel stupid for not drinking, too".
If he really wanted to quit, he'd do it, whether or not she kept her's up. BUT, that would be very hard on their marriage, I would think.
My xabf wouldn't drink around me because I don't drink. I love to dance and I go to dance clubs alot and just drink water with lemon and dance. He liked going with me to those because, since I didn't drink, he "felt more safe" not drinking in a club.
It was when he wasn't with me, that he would drink. Me, personally, if I had an AH and he was trying to quit or knowing that he had a problem with it,.......I wouldn't drink in front of him at all. I would think that it would be just a huge temptation and that they'd rationalize and say "Ah, one or two won't kill me. I feel stupid for not drinking, too".
If he really wanted to quit, he'd do it, whether or not she kept her's up. BUT, that would be very hard on their marriage, I would think.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
