Question about The Golden Rule
Acting not reacting
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: My happy place
Posts: 1,788
Question about The Golden Rule
I am going through all this analyzing and theologian behavior since Dan moved out. I have decided I can call him by name, becuase I am revelaing his identity and why not? What do I have to hide?
My question this morning is about the Golden rule, we were likely all taught it in school...treat others like you would like to be treated.
Well, obviously everyone lacks in this area at one time or another. But, as a Code, I feel I did treat him how I would want to be treated, but only when enabling. The times I didnt folllow the rule, seem to be detachment....ie not giving money, asking him to leave, etc.
So, does anyone have any perspective on this or am I overanalyzing...I do that alot. I know I am doing the right thing for myself and ultimately for him, as I believe this is the way my God wants me to handle this, just gettin a little muddy in the head as I search for my best me!
My question this morning is about the Golden rule, we were likely all taught it in school...treat others like you would like to be treated.
Well, obviously everyone lacks in this area at one time or another. But, as a Code, I feel I did treat him how I would want to be treated, but only when enabling. The times I didnt folllow the rule, seem to be detachment....ie not giving money, asking him to leave, etc.
So, does anyone have any perspective on this or am I overanalyzing...I do that alot. I know I am doing the right thing for myself and ultimately for him, as I believe this is the way my God wants me to handle this, just gettin a little muddy in the head as I search for my best me!
Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Anaheim,CA
Posts: 549
WOW, I have struggled with that same question so long I think you have a window into my mind!
"Do unto others...". What a HUGE burden.
I've rewritten it a bit...my version--"do unto others as you would want done unto you"+in similar circumstances.
Do I think everyone is entitled to love, warmth and kindness? YES.
If I were addicted would I expect others to support my habit? Would that honestly be warm, loving or kind? Somewhere in my heart of hearts, I think most with addictions are like out-of-control children...down deep they're actually screaming for rules, order and what they lack the most, discipline.
And what has worked for me has been coupling the golden rule with the other order that appears - love your neighbor as yourself. I don't think we can honestly GIVE more than we HAVE.
There's my scale...me on one side, caring for myself, loving myself, treating myself as I'd want others to treat me. One the other side, them. I attempt the same, to care for them, to love them, and to treat them as I'd want to be treated...under similar circumstances.
I'm not always successful in my attempts, but that's my version.
"Do unto others...". What a HUGE burden.
I've rewritten it a bit...my version--"do unto others as you would want done unto you"+in similar circumstances.
Do I think everyone is entitled to love, warmth and kindness? YES.
If I were addicted would I expect others to support my habit? Would that honestly be warm, loving or kind? Somewhere in my heart of hearts, I think most with addictions are like out-of-control children...down deep they're actually screaming for rules, order and what they lack the most, discipline.
And what has worked for me has been coupling the golden rule with the other order that appears - love your neighbor as yourself. I don't think we can honestly GIVE more than we HAVE.
There's my scale...me on one side, caring for myself, loving myself, treating myself as I'd want others to treat me. One the other side, them. I attempt the same, to care for them, to love them, and to treat them as I'd want to be treated...under similar circumstances.
I'm not always successful in my attempts, but that's my version.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 3,054
Personally if I was harming someone I loved I would want them to ask me to leave. If I could never pay back what I borrowed I would want freinds to stop lending. I would also want to be respected and treated as an equal adult.
I think the rule holds - it's a good 'un!!
I hope I am never loved the way an alcoholic can love booze, enough that I could hurt, demoralise, embarass and dibilitate them and they'd still come back for more. I don't want to be loved at the expense of my husbands mother, father, brother and friends, I don't want the kind of love he has for me to ever come between them. I'd never want him to love me despite offering me no love in return. I would never love him like that either.
I think it just takes careful thinking about how you would really like to be treated.
I think the rule holds - it's a good 'un!!
I hope I am never loved the way an alcoholic can love booze, enough that I could hurt, demoralise, embarass and dibilitate them and they'd still come back for more. I don't want to be loved at the expense of my husbands mother, father, brother and friends, I don't want the kind of love he has for me to ever come between them. I'd never want him to love me despite offering me no love in return. I would never love him like that either.
I think it just takes careful thinking about how you would really like to be treated.
Belgian Sheepdog Adictee
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Today
Posts: 6,101
Over the years I have learned to simplify things for myself.
What has become SOP (standard operating procedure, lol) for me is really very simple.
Each day to the best of my ability, I practice thoughtfulness, kindness, and consideration to all who cross my path and I do unto others as I would have them do unto me.
As a result of this I have found I have an extreme amount of "good karma" coming my way.
I have also found that by doing this I pretty well have the 12 Steps covered, the 10 Commandments Covered, and the Golden Rule.
Alturistic??? sure, but with practice, practice, practice it does happen. Now mind you I have been practicing for over 24 years now.
Yes, I still have a bad day now and then, but heck if I didn't I wouldn't have anything to compare a good day too. rofl
And yes, I come across people that are "not nice" but I have found the best way to get back at them is just smile and be calm, most have no idea how to deal with someone who does not react to them and usually give up.
JMHO
Love and (((((to all))))),
What has become SOP (standard operating procedure, lol) for me is really very simple.
Each day to the best of my ability, I practice thoughtfulness, kindness, and consideration to all who cross my path and I do unto others as I would have them do unto me.
As a result of this I have found I have an extreme amount of "good karma" coming my way.
I have also found that by doing this I pretty well have the 12 Steps covered, the 10 Commandments Covered, and the Golden Rule.
Alturistic??? sure, but with practice, practice, practice it does happen. Now mind you I have been practicing for over 24 years now.
Yes, I still have a bad day now and then, but heck if I didn't I wouldn't have anything to compare a good day too. rofl
And yes, I come across people that are "not nice" but I have found the best way to get back at them is just smile and be calm, most have no idea how to deal with someone who does not react to them and usually give up.
JMHO
Love and (((((to all))))),
To Life!
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 9,293
"But, as a Code, I feel I did treat him how I would want to be treated, but only when enabling. The times I didnt folllow the rule, seem to be detachment....ie not giving money, asking him to leave, etc. "
I don't think enabling is treating him as you would want to be treated. Just a perspective here, but, I do not want to be treated with such disrespect. Because enabling me means trying to *fix* me. To make it all better. To not allow me to feel the consequences of my actions. To infantilize me. And possibly to kill me. We CAN enable them right into the grave, as Jon points out. And it's true!
What you say is NOT following the Golden Rule, I say is. For example, detachment with LOVE. If I love someone, I am following the Rule. I, in turn, want to be loved. And that love is a love that treats me as a responsible adult, capable of making my own decisions and dealing with the consequences of those decisions.
To intervene with my decisions is insulting. It is not love; it is controlling. Trying to control me and my actions is not love. Just the opposite.
Detachment with love means you accept who I am. Acceptance is loving. And if you accept who I am, you can still love me, dispite my faults. As a child of G*D.
To me, that IS the Golden Rule.
You don't have to like what I do. You can seperate my being from my behaviors. Just as you would want me to deal with your behaviors that are not kind. To seperate them from *you* the person. The child of G*D.
So, to me, detachment with love is following the Golden Rule; enabling is not. Detachment is loving; enabling is controlling.
Does this make sense?
Shalom!
I don't think enabling is treating him as you would want to be treated. Just a perspective here, but, I do not want to be treated with such disrespect. Because enabling me means trying to *fix* me. To make it all better. To not allow me to feel the consequences of my actions. To infantilize me. And possibly to kill me. We CAN enable them right into the grave, as Jon points out. And it's true!
What you say is NOT following the Golden Rule, I say is. For example, detachment with LOVE. If I love someone, I am following the Rule. I, in turn, want to be loved. And that love is a love that treats me as a responsible adult, capable of making my own decisions and dealing with the consequences of those decisions.
To intervene with my decisions is insulting. It is not love; it is controlling. Trying to control me and my actions is not love. Just the opposite.
Detachment with love means you accept who I am. Acceptance is loving. And if you accept who I am, you can still love me, dispite my faults. As a child of G*D.
To me, that IS the Golden Rule.
You don't have to like what I do. You can seperate my being from my behaviors. Just as you would want me to deal with your behaviors that are not kind. To seperate them from *you* the person. The child of G*D.
So, to me, detachment with love is following the Golden Rule; enabling is not. Detachment is loving; enabling is controlling.
Does this make sense?
Shalom!
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: England
Posts: 3,410
All the replies!! Everyone has said a variation on the same thing. To love someone is to let them be an adult and support them in their growth. Enabling isn't love.
Look what you made me do! Guess I did have something to add.
Look what you made me do! Guess I did have something to add.
1000 Post Club
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Recoveryville, USA
Posts: 1,297
I agree with you all, too....my comment would be towards breaking his anonymity...you have nothing to hide, so you can tell us your name if you like, however, "outing" someone else is different.
I try to respect someone who suffers from a disease that is wrought with shame and disgust in today's society.
Just my opinion, of course.
I try to respect someone who suffers from a disease that is wrought with shame and disgust in today's society.
Just my opinion, of course.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Still trying to figure it out
Posts: 7
so there
I totally know how you feel about the Golden Rule. I highly believe in it but unfortuantely, not everyone goes by the same rule. I also gave my ex everything and more, hoping to get just alittle bit in return. Just make sure not to let your gaurd completely down and know what you are worth and what is right for you!
Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Parker, CO
Posts: 495
I would find myself dong the same thing you are doing after I made my AH leave the home. He would not complete alcohol rehab and I told him he couldn't come back. Now, he's been sober for 12 days.
Sometimes for hte alcoholic, not being there to break their every fall is a good thing, teaches them the consequences of their actions, etc.
Sometimes for hte alcoholic, not being there to break their every fall is a good thing, teaches them the consequences of their actions, etc.
Don't get undies in a bunch
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: South Shore MA
Posts: 7,120
In Proverbs it says spare the rod, spoil the child.
Well not just a child can get spoiled when we leave out correction from life.
It also says... a father that doesn't give rebuke to his child, hates his child.
In other words... even though we may not like doing something because it may bring pain or heart ache, we would do it because it is what is needed and is the best thing to do.
If you were walking towards a huge hole in the ground, would you want me to point it out for you so you wouldn't fall in? That isn't being codie, it is being helpful. Now if you ignore the warning, letting you fall in would be the helpful thing. You would learn from your own mistakes.
Doing what is best for others is doing what the golden rule says.
I would want others doing what is best for me so I should do what is best for them.
Well not just a child can get spoiled when we leave out correction from life.
It also says... a father that doesn't give rebuke to his child, hates his child.
In other words... even though we may not like doing something because it may bring pain or heart ache, we would do it because it is what is needed and is the best thing to do.
If you were walking towards a huge hole in the ground, would you want me to point it out for you so you wouldn't fall in? That isn't being codie, it is being helpful. Now if you ignore the warning, letting you fall in would be the helpful thing. You would learn from your own mistakes.
Doing what is best for others is doing what the golden rule says.
I would want others doing what is best for me so I should do what is best for them.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 3,054
If you were walking towards a huge hole in the ground, would you want me to point it out for you so you wouldn't fall in?
He hasn't drank for the last 2 nights. No expectations but at least his actions show he doubts the doc!
Don't get undies in a bunch
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: South Shore MA
Posts: 7,120
Originally Posted by equus
That was why after D's doc saying he should 'live a little' after D had told him he was woried about his drinking having gone up I knew I had to say something. I showed him the photos from when he was drinking nothing, and when he'd been drinking a couple of pints a night for 3 months, said this is why I know that doctor is wrong, then left it to him.
He hasn't drank for the last 2 nights. No expectations but at least his actions show he doubts the doc!
He hasn't drank for the last 2 nights. No expectations but at least his actions show he doubts the doc!
All you did was place the facts in front of him. He is the one who made the choice. That is how it works.
Good job from both of you.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 346
Ditto. Hard to see when you're in the middle of it. Also hard to see when the A's behavior - say financial irresponsibility - threatens to take your house away. That's when you need to determine if that's the life *you* want. If it is, nerve away! If it's not, form a plan and take action on the plan.
Acting not reacting
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: My happy place
Posts: 1,788
Very helpful everyone! I love you guys 
I think things are clearer now, and I feel much better knowing that I really wasnt treating him with respect by enabling him. Very good stuff here.
I think things are clearer now, and I feel much better knowing that I really wasnt treating him with respect by enabling him. Very good stuff here.
Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Parker, CO
Posts: 495
Elizabeth, I made my AH move out after he left rehab the 2nd time. Though it has been very hard financially (asyou probably see now), I think it has helped him. He has been sober for almost 2 weeks. He has gotten involved with AA and is doing outpt treatment. He is doing these things on his own now. he said life w/out me and our son would be meaningless and that he loves us.
He needs to be out on his own for a while longer. He needs to heal more and so do I.
He needs to be out on his own for a while longer. He needs to heal more and so do I.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 48
These posts are just so wonderful and so touching. I am so glad I found this board. I feel like I am surrounded by so many wonderful people with so much love to give...all we want back is just a little love and respect. Ya'll have mine, I'll tell you that!!
If you love something, set it free. If it comes back, it's yours. If it doesn't it never was. I let my BF go and he fell into the arms of another woman, another enabler in less than 24 hours....showing me that he was not the man that he claimed to be all these years...it showed me that he was human, in a state of depression and hitting rock bottom quickly...but now it is not I picking up the pieces for him..it's her this time around. I love him with all my heart and know that I gave to him all that I could BUT I gave him too much, I gave him all the tools he needed to go into this demise that he is in.
If you love something, set it free. If it comes back, it's yours. If it doesn't it never was. I let my BF go and he fell into the arms of another woman, another enabler in less than 24 hours....showing me that he was not the man that he claimed to be all these years...it showed me that he was human, in a state of depression and hitting rock bottom quickly...but now it is not I picking up the pieces for him..it's her this time around. I love him with all my heart and know that I gave to him all that I could BUT I gave him too much, I gave him all the tools he needed to go into this demise that he is in.
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