lack of responsibility/in her own world
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 561
lack of responsibility/in her own world
Hey
I'm not sure how to handle this.
We're sliding into financial chaos. My A isn't working, hasn't really for over a year now. We've got a big mortgage, big council taxes, other bills and well, you get the idea. I don't earn enough to cover it all, so we've tightened our belts quite a bit.
Now she's talking endlessly about cashing in an investment and going off on holiday.
Is it just me? Does this seem insane to anyone else?
At least I've started being less of a wimp and when she asked me what I thought I told her straight that she should be looking for a job instead of planning her next holiday. It doesn't seem to have dented the surface.
The trouble is that she's depressed and it seems that the only time there's any spark of life about her is when she's got some project or other on the go. This holiday would be her project.
It's not helping our finances though and I think there may be the start of a wee panic rising here.....
My mind's going between the two.
It's nice to see her with some enthusiasm
It would be nicer to not worry about meeting the mortgage..
do you think this is yet another way for her to stick her head in the sand?
thanks
J
xxx
PS
I'm not sure how to handle this.
We're sliding into financial chaos. My A isn't working, hasn't really for over a year now. We've got a big mortgage, big council taxes, other bills and well, you get the idea. I don't earn enough to cover it all, so we've tightened our belts quite a bit.
Now she's talking endlessly about cashing in an investment and going off on holiday.
Is it just me? Does this seem insane to anyone else?
At least I've started being less of a wimp and when she asked me what I thought I told her straight that she should be looking for a job instead of planning her next holiday. It doesn't seem to have dented the surface.
The trouble is that she's depressed and it seems that the only time there's any spark of life about her is when she's got some project or other on the go. This holiday would be her project.
It's not helping our finances though and I think there may be the start of a wee panic rising here.....
My mind's going between the two.
It's nice to see her with some enthusiasm
It would be nicer to not worry about meeting the mortgage..
do you think this is yet another way for her to stick her head in the sand?
thanks
J
xxx
PS
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 3,054
I'm going to be really annoying now and ask a load of questions....
Is she getting some treatment for the depression? Is she signed off as sick or is it less formal? If she is getting treatment is there any plan for her to go back to work? It might be that it's the treatment she's getting that needs some addressing, you know how it is with the NHS, those who don't ask, don't get!
I know sometimes I must seem like the SR softy with D but even when things were really hard for him I was still saying to him that he should go into work. I suppose it's part instinct and part in response to a bit of advice my friend gave me which was that when depression does get really bad it doesn't help to add any temptation to avoid things like work. I think for me the acid test (when it was really bad) had been that being at home even over the weekend made things worse not better.
I also think that it's reasonable to add a little 'persuasion' because depression does knock out lots of motivation.
All that said - I'm not certain of any of this.
As for the holiday - it's the real world and if your finances are shared then there should be some expectation she put a share in. Fair enough when someone is ill but being unable to pull an equal share should be an incentive to get the treatment needed to get well. All that said, I know these things vary so much from person to person.
Sorry to be so vague.
Is she getting some treatment for the depression? Is she signed off as sick or is it less formal? If she is getting treatment is there any plan for her to go back to work? It might be that it's the treatment she's getting that needs some addressing, you know how it is with the NHS, those who don't ask, don't get!
I know sometimes I must seem like the SR softy with D but even when things were really hard for him I was still saying to him that he should go into work. I suppose it's part instinct and part in response to a bit of advice my friend gave me which was that when depression does get really bad it doesn't help to add any temptation to avoid things like work. I think for me the acid test (when it was really bad) had been that being at home even over the weekend made things worse not better.
I also think that it's reasonable to add a little 'persuasion' because depression does knock out lots of motivation.
All that said - I'm not certain of any of this.
As for the holiday - it's the real world and if your finances are shared then there should be some expectation she put a share in. Fair enough when someone is ill but being unable to pull an equal share should be an incentive to get the treatment needed to get well. All that said, I know these things vary so much from person to person.
Sorry to be so vague.
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 561
No, she's not taking any medication. When she finally asked for help at the start of the year and started ADs there was a period of about 6 weeks where things slowly got better and you could see the pills starting to kick in.
Then came a business venture that took up all her attention, filled her with that purpose she needs so badly and gave her hope.
To be honest I could see (actually everyone around us could see) that it wasn't going to work, but she is so driven that she wouldn't listen.
She wanted it to work so badly that she thought she could will it.
So, in her elation she flushed the pills down the loo.
The business has gone and she's adrift again.
She's never been anything but self-employed (and the boss at that) so she's not officially unemployed, signed off sick, anything.
Actually, I've just read this.
It's all about her isn't it? Sometimes I don't think I've moved on at all!
This isn't what alanon is all about, is it?
It's about me being comfortable with saying I don't want her to go on holiday and spend money we don't have, and it's about me being comfortable saying that if she does go she'll be on her own.
And not being frightened of the fallout.
Ahemmmm .... right?
god, it's so hard when you know they are depressed.
J
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 3,054
In fairness I did ask questions about her - so don't feel it was you just shooting off regardless.
I suppose I asked because both in the first and second post her depression seemed to be the thing you found made it hard to know where the boundaries should be - and I can understand that.
Hey, you know it's something I've struggled with in knowing what's fair and what isn't? D and I have a joint account for all bills and food, we put into that equally and the rest of our money is individual. Paying into the joint account is both of our responsibilities individually. I don't see that as my boundary, or my rules, it's just the real world, we have bills for two not one. If D had got so bad he had wound up off sick for long enough to effect that then again part of the real world is that he would need to see a doctor - because people can't live off thin air, there has to be some longterm plan no matter what. If I took time away from work for retraining then it has to be in a way that we could afford it - or (it's the real world) I can't do it.
I really don't see that as something about me it isn't, it isn't my fault we need money to live (or D's), or that we need money for the mortgage, or that when you get sick you need a doctor not a week on the playstation!! (errrrr... joke to D's Mum's first attempt at making depression go away - he likes the playstation, let him play it all day to cheer up, it didn't work, it made it worse and he soon stopped doing anything, even the PS!).
Where I find it a little harder has been with jobs around the house, who does what is between us, the state the house is in is a decision we make between us, hence my boundaries are my own rather than governed by reality alone. My rule of thumb has been whether jobs are getting left while he plays (in which case - I DO confront him) or whether he's stopped the things he enjoys just as much as the jobs.
Last week it wasn't hard to decide whether to make an issue out of not done housework - he came home from work - he slept, no reading, no computer, no playstation. Then it was my decision what state the house was in, I had no dilema over whether I should be trying to 'get him to do his share'. BUT previously when it's been bad he has refused to go for help, on the basis that he'd sort it out himself and each time he did get going again - even so there were too many bouts of it and I had started to be blunt about him needing to see a doctor.
I rambling like mad trying to find the words for something that sums it all up. Sums up that I vowed to be his best friend and part of that is to be honest with him even when it's hard, something about sympathy being a bad thing when it means the removal of another persons adult status and responsibilities (which when you are ill include being responsible for going for treatment), something about reasonable behaviour meaning doing whatever is possible even at times when less things are possible. Okay - I can't find the right words at all, I'm hoping you can figure something amost useful out of this!
I suppose I asked because both in the first and second post her depression seemed to be the thing you found made it hard to know where the boundaries should be - and I can understand that.
Hey, you know it's something I've struggled with in knowing what's fair and what isn't? D and I have a joint account for all bills and food, we put into that equally and the rest of our money is individual. Paying into the joint account is both of our responsibilities individually. I don't see that as my boundary, or my rules, it's just the real world, we have bills for two not one. If D had got so bad he had wound up off sick for long enough to effect that then again part of the real world is that he would need to see a doctor - because people can't live off thin air, there has to be some longterm plan no matter what. If I took time away from work for retraining then it has to be in a way that we could afford it - or (it's the real world) I can't do it.
I really don't see that as something about me it isn't, it isn't my fault we need money to live (or D's), or that we need money for the mortgage, or that when you get sick you need a doctor not a week on the playstation!! (errrrr... joke to D's Mum's first attempt at making depression go away - he likes the playstation, let him play it all day to cheer up, it didn't work, it made it worse and he soon stopped doing anything, even the PS!).
Where I find it a little harder has been with jobs around the house, who does what is between us, the state the house is in is a decision we make between us, hence my boundaries are my own rather than governed by reality alone. My rule of thumb has been whether jobs are getting left while he plays (in which case - I DO confront him) or whether he's stopped the things he enjoys just as much as the jobs.
Last week it wasn't hard to decide whether to make an issue out of not done housework - he came home from work - he slept, no reading, no computer, no playstation. Then it was my decision what state the house was in, I had no dilema over whether I should be trying to 'get him to do his share'. BUT previously when it's been bad he has refused to go for help, on the basis that he'd sort it out himself and each time he did get going again - even so there were too many bouts of it and I had started to be blunt about him needing to see a doctor.
I rambling like mad trying to find the words for something that sums it all up. Sums up that I vowed to be his best friend and part of that is to be honest with him even when it's hard, something about sympathy being a bad thing when it means the removal of another persons adult status and responsibilities (which when you are ill include being responsible for going for treatment), something about reasonable behaviour meaning doing whatever is possible even at times when less things are possible. Okay - I can't find the right words at all, I'm hoping you can figure something amost useful out of this!
Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Anaheim,CA
Posts: 549
Perhaps it's time to have a heart to heart financial discussion. She needs to know you can't afford a holiday right now. But, you say she throws herself into things mind, body and soul. She may find your household finances to be just what she needs as a project! Getting a job and earning some money might become her newest project-and you won't know unless you share the truth.
*SIGH* Sometimes life isn't easy.
*SIGH* Sometimes life isn't easy.
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 561
thanks!
yes, it did make sense. And yes, I guess I am wondering what's a fair boundary when the everything changes all the time. Her abilities are definitely less at some times.
I guess I just have to work on where to draw the line....
I wish getting a job would become her next project! She could sell coal to Newcastle!
Just got to wait and see what's happening.
Nope, life isn't easy!!!
Thanks again
Jane
xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
yes, it did make sense. And yes, I guess I am wondering what's a fair boundary when the everything changes all the time. Her abilities are definitely less at some times.
I guess I just have to work on where to draw the line....
I wish getting a job would become her next project! She could sell coal to Newcastle!
Just got to wait and see what's happening.
Nope, life isn't easy!!!
Thanks again
Jane
xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
It's a Puggle!
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: On the road to sanity
Posts: 235
Ahhhh bahookie--
Big hugs from across the ocean (((((bahookie)))))
You're on the right track here I think--
"It's about me being comfortable with saying I don't want her to go on holiday and spend money we don't have, and it's about me being comfortable saying that if she does go she'll be on her own.
And not being frightened of the fallout."
But it's easy to say and difficult to do, isn't it?
Paula
Big hugs from across the ocean (((((bahookie)))))
You're on the right track here I think--
"It's about me being comfortable with saying I don't want her to go on holiday and spend money we don't have, and it's about me being comfortable saying that if she does go she'll be on her own.
And not being frightened of the fallout."
But it's easy to say and difficult to do, isn't it?
Paula
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Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 561
I'm hanging on in there.
She's got this idea that the investment will pay off big time and we will be awash with cash. Hmmm
In the meantime (well, July) I'm taking my kids island hopping with a tent. We can afford it and holidays are what you make them - I'm taking a pile of books for each of us (they would read all day if you let them), a bootful (LOL a trunkful) of sweeties, wellies, sunscreen and midgie repellant oh, and some wine for me!
All you need for a scottish summer!
I might even take some pics to show you lot when I get back
I've just to learn how to say no, or get a grip!
thanks for being so nice
Jane
xxxxxxxx
She's got this idea that the investment will pay off big time and we will be awash with cash. Hmmm
In the meantime (well, July) I'm taking my kids island hopping with a tent. We can afford it and holidays are what you make them - I'm taking a pile of books for each of us (they would read all day if you let them), a bootful (LOL a trunkful) of sweeties, wellies, sunscreen and midgie repellant oh, and some wine for me!
All you need for a scottish summer!
I might even take some pics to show you lot when I get back
I've just to learn how to say no, or get a grip!
thanks for being so nice
Jane
xxxxxxxx
Binge poster
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Join Date: Jul 2004
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can I just make you really really suffer?
This is where I'm taking them - where St Patrick first landed on Scottish soil and where our kings were buried, including the Shakespearian Duncan.
http://www.photographyblog.com/galle...Iona_Beach.JPG
This is where I'm taking them - where St Patrick first landed on Scottish soil and where our kings were buried, including the Shakespearian Duncan.
http://www.photographyblog.com/galle...Iona_Beach.JPG
Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 1,637
((((Bahookie))))),
It's been my experience that part of the disease of alcholism is living for NOW and not worrying about later. For my husband, he does not like to think, let alone TALK, about the consequences of his choices, especially in regards to money. He lives for NOW, fun now no matter the cost, and that's why he was up to his ears in credit card debt when I met him!! LOL! Even now as I struggle to get him understand the concept of a budget, he still keeps talking about the next big break. He thinks about all these business ventures that are going to make us "rich"... LOL, his current job was suppose to do that, and two years later?? Nothing. It's hard because I know that we can tend to come across as a party-pooper, but that's life. It's about living within your means... and that doesn't mean that life has to suck, it just means you find "smaller" ways to enjoy the pleasures of life! I say "smaller" because I'd much rather take a walk and enjoy nature's beauty for free, than spend $20 to watch a movie. But that's just me!
I had to have a sit down this weekend with B, had to talk to him about how the budget was working (or not working as the case is!). It was no fun, and I was nervous as heck. But telling him the truth, and being honest about our where our finances were allowed me to share the responsibility with him, and let him be a part of the decision making. He responded much better to me talking with him rather that AT him.
You're a team. Let her know that you need her to be an active participant and listen to her input. I know that my frugalness can be a killjoy to B's free spirit, so I have to remind myself that when we compromise... we both win! I find ways to relax the budget (within reason) so we both can have fun, and the bills still get paid.
There's a reason that opposites attract.
It's been my experience that part of the disease of alcholism is living for NOW and not worrying about later. For my husband, he does not like to think, let alone TALK, about the consequences of his choices, especially in regards to money. He lives for NOW, fun now no matter the cost, and that's why he was up to his ears in credit card debt when I met him!! LOL! Even now as I struggle to get him understand the concept of a budget, he still keeps talking about the next big break. He thinks about all these business ventures that are going to make us "rich"... LOL, his current job was suppose to do that, and two years later?? Nothing. It's hard because I know that we can tend to come across as a party-pooper, but that's life. It's about living within your means... and that doesn't mean that life has to suck, it just means you find "smaller" ways to enjoy the pleasures of life! I say "smaller" because I'd much rather take a walk and enjoy nature's beauty for free, than spend $20 to watch a movie. But that's just me!
I had to have a sit down this weekend with B, had to talk to him about how the budget was working (or not working as the case is!). It was no fun, and I was nervous as heck. But telling him the truth, and being honest about our where our finances were allowed me to share the responsibility with him, and let him be a part of the decision making. He responded much better to me talking with him rather that AT him.
You're a team. Let her know that you need her to be an active participant and listen to her input. I know that my frugalness can be a killjoy to B's free spirit, so I have to remind myself that when we compromise... we both win! I find ways to relax the budget (within reason) so we both can have fun, and the bills still get paid.
There's a reason that opposites attract.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Anaheim,CA
Posts: 549
*SIGH* The grass is always greener somewhere else.
I live within a half hour or less drive of these places
http://www.ocparks.com/
http://lostworld.pair.com/disneyland...05/index2.html
But I still wanna go with you!
I live within a half hour or less drive of these places
http://www.ocparks.com/
http://lostworld.pair.com/disneyland...05/index2.html
But I still wanna go with you!
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 3,054
We got married in scotland!! Doune Castle, or to be precise (Monty Python fans will understand!) Castle Anthrax!!
I love it - ooooo sooooo much despite it having peed it down with rain EVERY day of our honeymoon!!
I love it - ooooo sooooo much despite it having peed it down with rain EVERY day of our honeymoon!!
Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Anaheim,CA
Posts: 549
Aw, Minnie, Van Morrison's Into the Mystic is once again playing in my head!
Sailing...beautiful Scotland...and I'm whining because I'm just in Orange County, CA hahaha.
The grass is always greener...
Sailing...beautiful Scotland...and I'm whining because I'm just in Orange County, CA hahaha.
The grass is always greener...
Acting not reacting
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: My happy place
Posts: 1,788
Bahookie, I know I am late on this thread and havent been around lately, but I have extensive experience in this arena.
My philosophy about working is this...if mine was actively involved in his recovery, AA, Therapy, not drinking, not acting out dry dunk behavior, then I would relent on his not working and needing perhaps a small vacation. It never happened that way though, I made the money, he spent it, and never got help. He didnt want a distraction/vacation for himself, he wanted one for me so I would relent and relax about his other behaviors bc afterall, I d been on a vacay!
If they are not promoting their recovery, they are promoting their disease. Like wise, if mine wasnt actively participating in his recovery, well then neither was I. Just my ten cents...
My philosophy about working is this...if mine was actively involved in his recovery, AA, Therapy, not drinking, not acting out dry dunk behavior, then I would relent on his not working and needing perhaps a small vacation. It never happened that way though, I made the money, he spent it, and never got help. He didnt want a distraction/vacation for himself, he wanted one for me so I would relent and relax about his other behaviors bc afterall, I d been on a vacay!
If they are not promoting their recovery, they are promoting their disease. Like wise, if mine wasnt actively participating in his recovery, well then neither was I. Just my ten cents...
Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 1,637
Originally Posted by elizabeth1979
If they are not promoting their recovery, they are promoting their disease. Like wise, if mine wasnt actively participating in his recovery, well then neither was I.
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