Maybe a dumb question....but what is the "13th STEP??"
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Canada.....Eh?
Posts: 54
Maybe a dumb question....but what is the "13th STEP??"
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but what exactly is the 13th step???
I keep hearing about it in other posts that refer to affairs and stuff. Is there something that I don't know here?? I am still a newbie.
Thanks
I keep hearing about it in other posts that refer to affairs and stuff. Is there something that I don't know here?? I am still a newbie.
Thanks
Guest
Posts: n/a
Here is an article I found.
THE ORIGIN OF THE 13th STEP
Yes, doing someone else’s inventory is permitted, but it is also generally frowned upon.
Why? Well, it is understood among longer-lived members of this fellowship that true personal recovery does not come from doing another’s inventory, but from sticking to one’s own. Another thing that’s permitted but generally frowned upon is “Thirteenth Stepping”.
Just as AA is not a lending bank, an employment center, or a social club, AA is also not a dating service.
How did today’s concept of “Thirteenth Stepping” arise? Originally, Old-timers recognized that our 12 Step program was indeed a ‘one day at a time’ lifelong effort.
The original usage of “Thirteenth Step” was as a euphemism used by the first AA’s to signify one’s final step into the casket. After practicing the 12 Steps throughout a lifetime, it was said the deceased AA had made the “13th Step’ into the grave.”
Later, as the fellowship's experience grew, the term “13th Step” took on its contemporary usage.
The “Thirteenth Step” is commonly defined as the practice of dating a newcomer, or another AA member, with less than solid sobriety.
It is widely accepted that romantic relationships are never easy, even for non- alcoholics. Bearing in mind that alcohol and addiction is a very real potential death sentence for an alcoholic, if we choose to risk the very personal emotional trauma which may arise from an unsuccessful union, we then also risk the life of another out of our own self-will.
The admonition on pg. 119 of the “Twelve & Twelve” is an understatement of great magnitude.
Certainly the likelihood for newcomers, or those of questionably stable sobriety, who are pursued for
(or who do pursue) romantic relationships, is that emotional handicaps shall indeed rise up and cripple them, causing a significant number of them to relapse — a relapse which can become a “13th Step” death sentence.
Hence it’s easy to understand how the term “13th Stepping” came to mean what it does today.
That’s why “Thirteenth Stepping”, among informed members of the Fellowship, is viewed as the most self-seeking, willful, and inconsiderate behavior, and is understandably despised and discouraged.
Clearly, playing fast and loose with another person’s life is irresponsible and reprehensible. The old saying, “there’s a slip under every skirt”, in this day and age is so cute and coy that it fails to fully emphasize this most serious of problems.
“The problem being…?” you ask?
If you are actively practicing the “Thirteenth Step”, look no further than the closest mirror and you will see that perhaps the root of the problem is you.
From The Victor Valley May 2003 Newsletter.
Yes, doing someone else’s inventory is permitted, but it is also generally frowned upon.
Why? Well, it is understood among longer-lived members of this fellowship that true personal recovery does not come from doing another’s inventory, but from sticking to one’s own. Another thing that’s permitted but generally frowned upon is “Thirteenth Stepping”.
Just as AA is not a lending bank, an employment center, or a social club, AA is also not a dating service.
How did today’s concept of “Thirteenth Stepping” arise? Originally, Old-timers recognized that our 12 Step program was indeed a ‘one day at a time’ lifelong effort.
The original usage of “Thirteenth Step” was as a euphemism used by the first AA’s to signify one’s final step into the casket. After practicing the 12 Steps throughout a lifetime, it was said the deceased AA had made the “13th Step’ into the grave.”
Later, as the fellowship's experience grew, the term “13th Step” took on its contemporary usage.
The “Thirteenth Step” is commonly defined as the practice of dating a newcomer, or another AA member, with less than solid sobriety.
It is widely accepted that romantic relationships are never easy, even for non- alcoholics. Bearing in mind that alcohol and addiction is a very real potential death sentence for an alcoholic, if we choose to risk the very personal emotional trauma which may arise from an unsuccessful union, we then also risk the life of another out of our own self-will.
The admonition on pg. 119 of the “Twelve & Twelve” is an understatement of great magnitude.
Certainly the likelihood for newcomers, or those of questionably stable sobriety, who are pursued for
(or who do pursue) romantic relationships, is that emotional handicaps shall indeed rise up and cripple them, causing a significant number of them to relapse — a relapse which can become a “13th Step” death sentence.
Hence it’s easy to understand how the term “13th Stepping” came to mean what it does today.
That’s why “Thirteenth Stepping”, among informed members of the Fellowship, is viewed as the most self-seeking, willful, and inconsiderate behavior, and is understandably despised and discouraged.
Clearly, playing fast and loose with another person’s life is irresponsible and reprehensible. The old saying, “there’s a slip under every skirt”, in this day and age is so cute and coy that it fails to fully emphasize this most serious of problems.
“The problem being…?” you ask?
If you are actively practicing the “Thirteenth Step”, look no further than the closest mirror and you will see that perhaps the root of the problem is you.
From The Victor Valley May 2003 Newsletter.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Here is page 119 and page 120 of the big book that the article referred to.
Still another difficulty is that you may become jealous of the attention he bestows on other people, especially alcoholics. You have been starving for his companionship, yet he spends long hours helping other men and their families. You feel he should now be yours. The fact is that he should work with other people to maintain his own sobriety. Sometimes he will be so interested that he becomes really neglectful. Your house is filled with strangers. You may not like some of them. He gets stirred up about their troubles, but not at all about yours. It will do little good if you point that out and urge more attention for yourself. We find it a real mistake to dampen his enthusiasm for alcoholic work. You should join in his efforts as much as you possibly can. We suggest that you direct some of your thought to the wives of his new alcoholic friends. They need the counsel and love of a woman who has gone through what you have.
It is probably true that you and your husband have been living too much alone, for drinking many times isolates the wife of an alcoholic. Therefore, you probably need fresh interests and a great cause to live for as much as your husband. If you cooperate, rather than complain, you will find that his excess enthusiasm will tone down. Both of you will awaken to a new sense of responsibility for others. You, as well as your husband, ought to think of what you can put into life instead of how much you can take out. Inevitably your lives will be fuller for doing so. You will lose the old life to find one much better.
Perhaps your husband will make a fair start on the new basis, but just as things are going beautifully he dismays you by coming home drunk. If you are satisfied he really wants to get over drinking, you need not be alarmed. Though it is infinitely better that he have no relapse at all, as has been true with many of our men, it is by no means a bad thing in some cases. Your husband will see at once that he must redouble his spiritual activities if he expects to survive. You need not remind him of his spiritual deficiency - he will know of it. Cheer him up and ask him how you can be still more helpful.
The slightest sign of fear or intolerance may lessen your husband's chance of recovery. In a weak moment he may take your dislike of his high-stepping friends as one of those insanely trivial excuses to drink.
We never, never try to arrange a man's life so as to shield him from temptation. The slightest disposition on your part to guide his appointments or his affairs so he will not be tempted will be noticed. Make him feel absolutely free to come and go as he likes. This is important. If he gets drunk, don't blame yourself. God has either removed your husband's liquor problem or He has not. If not, it had better be found out right away. Then you and your husband can get right down to fundamentals. If a repetition is to be prevented, place the problem, along with everything else, in God's hands.
It is probably true that you and your husband have been living too much alone, for drinking many times isolates the wife of an alcoholic. Therefore, you probably need fresh interests and a great cause to live for as much as your husband. If you cooperate, rather than complain, you will find that his excess enthusiasm will tone down. Both of you will awaken to a new sense of responsibility for others. You, as well as your husband, ought to think of what you can put into life instead of how much you can take out. Inevitably your lives will be fuller for doing so. You will lose the old life to find one much better.
Perhaps your husband will make a fair start on the new basis, but just as things are going beautifully he dismays you by coming home drunk. If you are satisfied he really wants to get over drinking, you need not be alarmed. Though it is infinitely better that he have no relapse at all, as has been true with many of our men, it is by no means a bad thing in some cases. Your husband will see at once that he must redouble his spiritual activities if he expects to survive. You need not remind him of his spiritual deficiency - he will know of it. Cheer him up and ask him how you can be still more helpful.
The slightest sign of fear or intolerance may lessen your husband's chance of recovery. In a weak moment he may take your dislike of his high-stepping friends as one of those insanely trivial excuses to drink.
We never, never try to arrange a man's life so as to shield him from temptation. The slightest disposition on your part to guide his appointments or his affairs so he will not be tempted will be noticed. Make him feel absolutely free to come and go as he likes. This is important. If he gets drunk, don't blame yourself. God has either removed your husband's liquor problem or He has not. If not, it had better be found out right away. Then you and your husband can get right down to fundamentals. If a repetition is to be prevented, place the problem, along with everything else, in God's hands.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: australia
Posts: 10
i was just recently the victim of a 13th stepper.
i've been going to alanon for a few weeks now and thought that i had found a friend in alanon, we had spoken and met a couple of times out of alanon and knowing that she had been in alanon for a few years i felt safe. we both agreed that we must stay friends, which made me happy, then one day i gave her a hug goodbye and all of a sudden she kissed me and asked me not to reject her. i felt a bit trapped and unsure what to do, i do like this woman but i just want to friends, i need to focus on myself, i'm not strong enough or have the boundries to cope.
i told her how i felt the next day, but i think there is still more to resolve. i hope it hasn't ruined the friendship because i really do care about this person, we have alot in common and i feel relaxed with her.
i've been going to alanon for a few weeks now and thought that i had found a friend in alanon, we had spoken and met a couple of times out of alanon and knowing that she had been in alanon for a few years i felt safe. we both agreed that we must stay friends, which made me happy, then one day i gave her a hug goodbye and all of a sudden she kissed me and asked me not to reject her. i felt a bit trapped and unsure what to do, i do like this woman but i just want to friends, i need to focus on myself, i'm not strong enough or have the boundries to cope.
i told her how i felt the next day, but i think there is still more to resolve. i hope it hasn't ruined the friendship because i really do care about this person, we have alot in common and i feel relaxed with her.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: FL
Posts: 14,246
The first Tradition:
1. Our common welfare should come first; personal progress for the greatest number depends on our unity.
I also think that Tradition 12 applies to 13th steppers.
12. Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our Traditions, ever reminding us to place principles above personalities.
(emphasis mine)
My recovery and well being comes first before any relationship in the rooms or out. The reason I got involved with Alanon in the first place was to learn to have healthy boundaries and relationships with others. If someone I am friends with- steps (no pun intended!) over my boundary-romantically or otherwise, I would need to address their behavior and/or put some distance between myself and them.
1. Our common welfare should come first; personal progress for the greatest number depends on our unity.
I also think that Tradition 12 applies to 13th steppers.
12. Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our Traditions, ever reminding us to place principles above personalities.
(emphasis mine)
My recovery and well being comes first before any relationship in the rooms or out. The reason I got involved with Alanon in the first place was to learn to have healthy boundaries and relationships with others. If someone I am friends with- steps (no pun intended!) over my boundary-romantically or otherwise, I would need to address their behavior and/or put some distance between myself and them.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: anomaly
Posts: 2,180
mmm..with all the insanity and chaos I've gone through living
with an alki or a recoverying alki relapsing over and over again
and all the emotional roller coasters and drama that comes with
earily stages of recovery.
I'm sick but I'm not that sick.
good god...who in their right mind would want to have a relationship
with me at the moment.lol
The 13th for me is more than just the sexual thing. I've been burn
my men in recovery or tried to take advantage of me.
It's a preditor taking advantage of a new comer, a person that's
emotionally and mentally voulnable. So..you need to becareful
with people with years of recovery under their belt as will.
And that men sticking with men stuff is hog wash..it's the indiviual
themselves. I've been hit up my men. I've watch women make moves
on my GF.
Generally we're pretty much in a funk and a bit confuse about
everything. and yes, it seem so easy to just let someone take
our pains away.
Realisticlly..it's not like every women I've met had never wanted
to take me home and fixed me in someway. It's not like I've never
been approched by women before. As a matter of fact every women
that I've ever gotten involved with asked me out.
Unfortunately..I only attract the sick O.
It's not like she has psyho stamp on her forehead...generally she's on her
best behaviors.
anyways...being a codi and all, that's a hell of a thing to not wanting
to take someone home and fix them.lol
with an alki or a recoverying alki relapsing over and over again
and all the emotional roller coasters and drama that comes with
earily stages of recovery.
I'm sick but I'm not that sick.
good god...who in their right mind would want to have a relationship
with me at the moment.lol
The 13th for me is more than just the sexual thing. I've been burn
my men in recovery or tried to take advantage of me.
It's a preditor taking advantage of a new comer, a person that's
emotionally and mentally voulnable. So..you need to becareful
with people with years of recovery under their belt as will.
And that men sticking with men stuff is hog wash..it's the indiviual
themselves. I've been hit up my men. I've watch women make moves
on my GF.
Generally we're pretty much in a funk and a bit confuse about
everything. and yes, it seem so easy to just let someone take
our pains away.
Realisticlly..it's not like every women I've met had never wanted
to take me home and fixed me in someway. It's not like I've never
been approched by women before. As a matter of fact every women
that I've ever gotten involved with asked me out.
Unfortunately..I only attract the sick O.
It's not like she has psyho stamp on her forehead...generally she's on her
best behaviors.
anyways...being a codi and all, that's a hell of a thing to not wanting
to take someone home and fix them.lol
Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 151
The "13th Step" is an old term used in AA meetings about people who choose to hook up with one another within the group, which is considered a big no-no in recovery. If you hear the term "...they met at the meeting, then left to work the 13th step together" - it basically means having sex with someone in the program.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 5,075
Al Anon members do it, too. People are people, in or out of the rooms.
What I like about the program is you can take what you like and leave the rest. That chapter of the Big Book (which is AA literature) is something I cannot relate to, so I don't.
What I like about the program is you can take what you like and leave the rest. That chapter of the Big Book (which is AA literature) is something I cannot relate to, so I don't.
Becoming a Butterfly
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 904
Hell, I remember hearing about an article in which men looking for easy sex were told to go troll AA and NA meetings. The idea was that the women there were needy and would give them the hottest sex of their lives if shown the slightest affection. How's that for preying on other humans?
Never forget that there are some really sick people out there.
Never forget that there are some really sick people out there.
Keepingmyjoy
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 328
This may be a stupid question, but why is there a post from 5/31/05 in our current posts? I've seen it happen before, and am glad to have read the post, it was very interesting, but why did it pop in from 2005? Just curious.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Starting over all over again
Posts: 4,426
Originally Posted by keepingmyjoy 
This may be a stupid question, but why is there a post from 5/31/05 in our current posts? I've seen it happen before, and am glad to have read the post, it was very interesting, but why did it pop in from 2005? Just curious.
Mike
Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: brooklyn, new york
Posts: 1,639
i don't mean to bring back an old post
i was googling
"13th step"
as someone told me a real bad thing happeend to her
i don't believe it's on here, too
the latter posts are reminescent of sweeping it under the rug
let's hear the truth!
are we to endear, snarl a newcomer by witholding info
is there anyone out there who has been verbally, reputationally, maliciously gossipy, sexually abused by an upstanding memeber of AA?
will the truth be known?
let's start right here
i was googling
"13th step"
as someone told me a real bad thing happeend to her
i don't believe it's on here, too
the latter posts are reminescent of sweeping it under the rug
let's hear the truth!
are we to endear, snarl a newcomer by witholding info
is there anyone out there who has been verbally, reputationally, maliciously gossipy, sexually abused by an upstanding memeber of AA?
will the truth be known?
let's start right here
Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Starting over all over again
Posts: 4,426
Originally Posted by fraankie
i don't mean to bring back an old post...
will the truth be known? let's start right here
will the truth be known? let's start right here
thanx
Mike
Moderator, SoberRecovery.
Certified NA Counselor
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Newport Beach Ca., US
Posts: 458
Something I wrote years ago, might be here on SR elsewhere too.
The Thirteenth Step
STEP 13 - We made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of him/her.
Notice the wording of this step, that *we made the decision it was not made for us. Many in recovery today understand that we were seldom victims, most often we were *volunteers.
Its been said that victims cannot recover since they focus on the incident and assume no responsibility for their part in the activity. For many, it wasn't until we owned a part in our dilemmas that we began to grow with wisdom through discovery and spiritual action was it?
Now... take a look at our collective opposition to those we label as predators or 13th steppers. Often most of these rationalizations begin with: Look at what that person did. In actuality, this may be nothing more than validation for blame while concurrently avoiding any assumption of responsibility. Using this rationale, would one be correct in presuming such a victim no longer need change themselves? Can they now instead freely focus on changing everyone and everything around them?
Should we become an integrated pocket that justifies victimhood? If so, are we not giving them the opportunity to fester an even more serious infection? Our collective conscience shunning 13th steppers should now proudly stand and righteously persecute these supposed perpetrators. Such a manifestation of pride would then give us that little heads up, that contented feeling of superiority over others, would it not?
Oh how comfortable self-righteousness can be, *more is the word for the day. So lets judge these evildoers and cast them into the outer darkness as well. We must, since it is all for the good of NA you see. We must be rid of this type of waste in our fellowship if these delicate flowers are ever to have a chance at finding a new way of life. ...
NONSENSE!!!
Firstly are there not addicts among us recovering successfully from addiction in spite of adversity? Doesnt success depend upon our relationship with a God that could do for us what we could not do for ourselves? If this were true, isnt it also true that any and every attempt to shield these newcomers from adversity rather than offering them the spiritual tools to meet such challenges would be doomed to failure as well?
Secondly... many members may still lack profound spiritual development even after years in the program. If the foregoing were true, wouldnt it be wrong to judge, criticize, condemn, isolate, or reject these individuals as morally bad but instead view them as spiritually sick? If we condone such ideals toward those whose actions we disapprove of, could it not be we, the righteous, doing the individual, group, or fellowship the greater spiritual damage?
When spouting off how bad other addicts behave, are we not in a perverse way proclaiming our own righteousness? What message do we convey to that suffering addict when we criticize with malevolence our fellows, those with whom they've chosen to associate with? Besides, who among us has had nothing but the purist of thoughts and intentions in all our affairs?
The moral of this story is: Recovery is an inside job. The practice of spirituality (unconditional love, acceptance, patience, tolerance) is all inclusive, even towards those dastardly 13th steppers. No member Ive met, as of yet, is in themselves exempt from moral inadequacies. Judge not lest ye be judged. Teach by example rather than by direction. Quit defending the victim role, victims simply don't recover.
andyaddict
Los Angeles
STEP 13 - We made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of him/her.
Notice the wording of this step, that *we made the decision it was not made for us. Many in recovery today understand that we were seldom victims, most often we were *volunteers.
Its been said that victims cannot recover since they focus on the incident and assume no responsibility for their part in the activity. For many, it wasn't until we owned a part in our dilemmas that we began to grow with wisdom through discovery and spiritual action was it?
Now... take a look at our collective opposition to those we label as predators or 13th steppers. Often most of these rationalizations begin with: Look at what that person did. In actuality, this may be nothing more than validation for blame while concurrently avoiding any assumption of responsibility. Using this rationale, would one be correct in presuming such a victim no longer need change themselves? Can they now instead freely focus on changing everyone and everything around them?
Should we become an integrated pocket that justifies victimhood? If so, are we not giving them the opportunity to fester an even more serious infection? Our collective conscience shunning 13th steppers should now proudly stand and righteously persecute these supposed perpetrators. Such a manifestation of pride would then give us that little heads up, that contented feeling of superiority over others, would it not?
Oh how comfortable self-righteousness can be, *more is the word for the day. So lets judge these evildoers and cast them into the outer darkness as well. We must, since it is all for the good of NA you see. We must be rid of this type of waste in our fellowship if these delicate flowers are ever to have a chance at finding a new way of life. ...
NONSENSE!!!
Firstly are there not addicts among us recovering successfully from addiction in spite of adversity? Doesnt success depend upon our relationship with a God that could do for us what we could not do for ourselves? If this were true, isnt it also true that any and every attempt to shield these newcomers from adversity rather than offering them the spiritual tools to meet such challenges would be doomed to failure as well?
Secondly... many members may still lack profound spiritual development even after years in the program. If the foregoing were true, wouldnt it be wrong to judge, criticize, condemn, isolate, or reject these individuals as morally bad but instead view them as spiritually sick? If we condone such ideals toward those whose actions we disapprove of, could it not be we, the righteous, doing the individual, group, or fellowship the greater spiritual damage?
When spouting off how bad other addicts behave, are we not in a perverse way proclaiming our own righteousness? What message do we convey to that suffering addict when we criticize with malevolence our fellows, those with whom they've chosen to associate with? Besides, who among us has had nothing but the purist of thoughts and intentions in all our affairs?
The moral of this story is: Recovery is an inside job. The practice of spirituality (unconditional love, acceptance, patience, tolerance) is all inclusive, even towards those dastardly 13th steppers. No member Ive met, as of yet, is in themselves exempt from moral inadequacies. Judge not lest ye be judged. Teach by example rather than by direction. Quit defending the victim role, victims simply don't recover.
andyaddict
Los Angeles
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