dax

Over 26 years ago I called alanon because I was about to leave my husband- his drinking was causing me great distress. He never drank at home. He would go out for a loaf of bread and be gone 8 hours. I was a stay at home mom with 2 small children. He was not a mean drunk -just reliable to be unreliable. The woman told me about a chapter 9 meeting[open AA for alcohioics and their families. ] I asked him to go and he agreed. Expect a miracle. He took a desire chip and has been sober every since 26 years. We both went to meetings. As his sobriety continued, I went less and less to alanon. We sometimes went to chapter 9 meetings. Our life got better right away and for many years afterwards. I had no problem for a long time with the many meetings he went to- as many as 12 a week for 20 years. He became detached from his family. I suspected a certain woman but had only a suspicious card. Plus I was very ill in my 40s 3 to 4 bad migraines a week[menapause.] In 99 I got proof of his affair and all hell broke loose. He tried to deny but I am a great PI. He continued talking to her for 7 months. We went to marriage counseling. We are still married but it is an uneasy truce. The trustr is gone.
For the first 20 years I adored everything about AA and Alanon. The infidelity was a double betrayal because I felt the program people had let me down- several knew and thought they made a nice couple. My husband could not understand why I could not just immediately 'turn over' the 9 year affair. He was 'programed ' to do so. This made recovery difficult even with an AA married counselor. We started going back to chapter 9 meeting. I now noticed a distrubing trend. The what I call career program people had a big distrust of 'normal' people. Many only stuck with other program people. Since I had many outside friends I was offended by this attitude and stopped going. It just made me mad.
So while I think there is no better program to help am alcoholic get and stay sober. And alanon for helping those close to an alcoholic. The program is not good for having a normal family life. Know a very well known person in the program doing lots of sponsoring- his or her family is very likely being neglected. There is a brother,sisterhood, in the program that shuts out the normal people. I just wish someone, somtime in my many alanon meetings had mention 13 th stepping. I would have discoered the affair a lot soomer. And by the way -my husband is thought to be a wonderful example of recovery to his program friends. While in reality his home life is a wreak. dax

abtchonamission

((((((Dax))))))

I'm sorry that you've had such a poor experience with these programs...my fiance is also involved in a 12 step program, and I attend Al-anon. Your experience is not the only way this can go. Michael is even more available to us, has become a better partner and father, and is able to show us appreciation for having stuck it through with him.

I wish I could say more of help to you...I am truly sorry that you feel these programs have failed you.

quietsins

sorry things were so bad for you. some people are morally weak. my first husband was that way... and is still that way... even though techinically he hasnt drank in 20 yrs... morally he is a very weak man.

my first husband 13th stepped me. then quit the program because all "his" problems were fixed. right now... his second wife kicked him out, his family doesnt want him, and my kids have little if no contact with him. i actually am good friends with the OW. because i saw in her many of the typical choices of an abused woman. her first husband committed suicide in front of the kids. my ex was her "rebound". and it didnt work.

i am blessed that my group is supportive, and functional. what finally gave me serenity was... i had to let him go.... all the hate.. all the anger... all the misery.... i let it all go. because i needed to get well. and i went to a therapist who wasnt in AA or alanon and she helped a lot. told me i deserve to be loved for who i am. not for what i can give. and it took a while.. but now i realize thats what i needed. someone to snap me out of my self pity and into a life.. a full life... one of my choosing, and one that i will answer to God for in the afterworld.

and you know what???? it was messy as all hell for a bit... but darn if it isnt much more rainbows and less storm clouds once i figured out what was right for me.

may you find peace and serenity.
quietsins

gelfling

Dear Dax,

Thanks for sharing the total history. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think I remember that in one post you mentioned that your relationship with your husband was doing well and he was a big help in your business. That's why I too was confused about your posts of this past weekend.

It hurts my heart knowing you're still in so much pain. I've been through the infidelity bit. But I knew that I had to forgive him and the other woman. Otherwise, I couldn't continue growing and healing. I realized how it kept me down and depressed much of the time and merely looking at my AH caused me pain. I had to erase the episode from my mind. As hard as it was, I had to do it for me. Not for him or anyone else, but for me because I knew I would take the hate and pain with me to the grave.

I wondered about the meetings you talked about and admit that it can be a clique. I've heard such stories. A young professionals meeting of AA. Particularly in large cities. Guess I've been lucky. I'm in the boonies and travel 25 miles to my meeting and it consists of homemakers primarily, retired folks and several alcoholics.

It is my prayer that you can find it in your heart to let go of the pain and agony engulfing your heart, mind and soul.

Blessings

dax

This is interesting because so far everyone has responded to the downside of my program experince. Remember we had what I thought were 20 really pretty good years- he was cheating but I did n'tknow it so I was truckiing right along having fun with my friends and dogs, cats and horses. My children were raised in a stable home.except bad for son who heard recorded message and knew about affair years befor I did.
Gelfing we are getting along ok He helped do 2 'pets sits from hee' I was laughing because he could never know why I hated that sit till he did it for me. I was over wrked this wekend od course. I will probaly nver heal. I still have 'meltdowns- just leess and less. I worked dawn to dusk for 10 and now that I can ride - it is raining, Every so often I look at himn and just feel like telling him to leave. Which would be unwise.

abtchonamission

I guess, for me, that I focused on the poor program experience rather than the 20 good years is because it seemed like your focus wasn't on them...it seemed like the good years were completely destroyed by the news of an affair. (And if I'm wrong, forgive me, and please know I'm not belittling the pain you felt.) For me, I would like to think that if I were in the position of 20 good years v. anger and resentment for the rest of the marriage - I'd like to think that I could either let go, find forgiveness in my heart, and move on, hopefully re-establish something good - or if it were impossible for me to let go of that hurt, to leave rather than live in it day after day. Please know, I am saying 'I hope I would be able' to do one or the other, not trying to tell you in any way what you should do.

May I ask, why do you say it would be unwise to tell him to leave? Don't answer if you don't want to, or are uncomfortable with it.

Gabe

Do you want to heal Dax?
Because saying things such as the above is the surest way to "never heal".
When you are really ready, I think you will hear yourself saying more positive things.
Then, those positive things will happen.
They say "you are what you eat".
I think "you are what you think".

gelfling

Dear Dax,

My primary focus was on the pain you're having. That's what this site is all about. That episode is more of a focus for you versus the 20 years you lived happily. I am happy you had that time. Absolutely delirious about it. Not many people can make that claim. Including myself.

Seeing that things look good for you now, being able to get over this would release the resentment you carry.

Cynay

Dax...

I so feel your pain, though I cant know the depth of the betrail you feel cuz for me it was not that long of a period of time

Im also a victim of the famous "13th Step" and for along time I hated AA/Al-anon and the "fellowship" that said it was ok for him to leave me and basically kick us to the curb 2 weeks before X-mas. Though the affair did not work well for him, he is STILL doing to me what I let him. Just last week we went through the same song and dance.

I have to believe its the man, not the program. Though I would agree with you that I could not believe a spiritual program would turn blind eyes to the morals of my ex-ABF but I have to remember those are people too... You will find the same people anywhere, church, social circles etc... and yes I have noticed the "lifer" attitude. For me I will learn to forgive, never forget but to let it all go... its the only thing I can do to keep sane.

Ann

Dax,

This is a very good post and I think that you will find more support here than you think is possible. I am sorry for your pain, but I have hope in my heart that one day you will be able to move beyond the pain and have happy days again. It IS possible, it may take some time and some work, but I think you will find that your life is easier when you take very good care of yourself, including letting go of the hurt from the past.

We're here and we care, Dax, and I'm glad to see you share your story.

Hugs
Ann

CodeMaster

Dax, you know I also did not have a good experience with a recoverying alcoholic but I know it is only a taste of your pain. I dont blame the program, but I also dont rely or trust on other recoverying or active alcoholics to give you the kind of just or protection that you thought they would I'm sorry to say. To be honest, if the person is a true alcoholic, I wont ever rely on them for anything, dont care if you havnent touched alcohol for 20 years, who knows if your a dry drunk. (sorry if it offends, its my opinion).

I feel your pain, I dont know what to really say except I wish you the very best always.

stilltrying

Dax: Thanks for sharing your story. I, too, have dealt with the infamous 13th stepping...two weeks before Christmas. It really nearly destroyed me. I decided that I couldn't stand the AA program....UNTIL....I realized that it was NOT the AA program that created this problem. IT WAS MY AH and he's been sober for 2 1/2 years. I believe that AA helps many folks on the path the recovery and without Al-anon I'm sure that I would be in a rubber room. The program of Al-anon did not condone by AH's behavior...the people in the program gave me uncondional love and support. Do I still harbor resentment???? YES...., however, I understand that my AH or the OW could care less that I harbor resentment....they will have their own judgement day...it's not up to me to continually remind them how wrong their actions were/are. I know that for my peace of mind I have to LET IT GO....I am moving out and filing for divorce from my AH at the end of June and I feel such relief to be starting again. I can honestly say that if he is still seeing her (I don't know and don't go to any measures to find out) that they deserve each other. I deserve to be with someone who holds being faithful a priority! I pray for you and your healing DAX. Thanks for sharing

CatsTail

Dax,

If you never want to heal you can continue to blame both the programs, if you want to heal you can use the tools of the program of Alanon, the 12 steps, and do a fourth and fifth about your fears and resentments. If and when you are ever ready to do that and have a good sponsor to help you through you will find peace and serenity no matter what happened in the past.

Sometimes we cling onto the past as an excuse to not get on with our lives.

I read alot of venom in your posts and it must be incredibly hard on you to carry that all the time.

Resentments make Alcoholics drink and resentments make co-dependents stay stuck in a rut and unhappy.

Ngaire

abtchonamission

I thought that this might be a good place for this to go...

walkingtheline

I find this to be true in many groups, not just AA. If you are a brain surgeon, I'd bet most non-brain surgeons don't "get it" when the brain surgeons discuss their areas of expertise. Cops have it, firefighters have it..it's often just a fact of life.

Not all of their members are people of integrity. That's true of any group. Even consider your own extended family. Sisters, brothers, cousins, aunts, uncles ect. I'd bet MOST are nice ppl. A FEW are STELLER. And sadly, a few lack integrity. Let's not blame the family for that individual (or individuals) flaws.

Is THIS what you want?

I ache for you. I feel the pain radiating from your post.

Things generally live up to our expectations. If you expect this to always be an open wound, sadly, it will always be an open wound. YOu've been to AA and al-anon. You've done the counseling. Is it possible this could be medical? Have you considered this could be a bit of depression perhaps dragging you into dispair?

I'll pray you find a way to bring joy and contentment back into your life.

Gabe

Yep.
Programs, organizations, places of employment or religious institutions do not create infidelity.
Unfaithful people create infidelity.

Ann

Dax

Let's go beyond AA and Al-Anon for a moment. Let's say your husband quit AA tomorrow and took up golfing instead. Now as an avid golfer, he would spend a certain amount of time at the golf course, make some golfing friends and become part of a "golf circle". He would be socializing with men and women, some of whom would be fine people and some who would be unfaithful to their partner. Would you trust your husband more if he gave up AA and took up golf, even though he told you he was faithful to you now? Would it change one tiny bit what you feel? Would you blame the golf club and all golfers if you knew there were people there who cheated?

You see, Dax, it's not about AA or Al-Anon or golf clubs. It is purely between your husband and yourself whether you have a healthy relationship or not. And it takes both partners to make this relationship work, not just one trying to prove themself to the other.

The pain you are carrying around is valid. The blame and where you place it is not. So perhaps taking your focus off the blame and turning it back to you and your husband and using the energy you use to be angry and instead use it to heal and try to make a good relationship work, just might be the key to finally finding peace.

Hugs
Ann

Gabe

Excellent advice Ann.
And it applies to a plethora of circumstances.

journeygal

(((((((Dax)))))))

You don't have to keep punishing yourself and your husband. You can forgive him for being human and yourself for loving him in spite of his faults. You can have a happy life. Marriage shouldn't be a death sentence. There should be happiness, peace, contentment, joy, reasons to wake up everyday. If you let yourself heal, you can have all of those things.

I wish you well.

dax

Ann - Well guess what. My husband is an avid golfer- he plays at least 3 times a week. And I have absolutely no problem with it because he plays only with men. The only time he plays with a women is when he goes to LA and plasys with a couple. And I have no worries there. On the course he is too intertested in playing well. Golf and work are not spiritual programs based on honesty and trust so I would be more suspicious of a if he interacted several days a week with a mixed group. I would not have a golfer's alanon. telling me never to question when, how long and how much he is gone.
Let us also be realistic. He can not give up AA. And no I will never trust the AA envirnment. So be it. it is between my husband and I- he has to go to meetings and I do not trustt the program. We have worked thru this by I knowing the meetings he goes to. They are limited to no outside after meeting lunches.or dinners., He can sponsor as many men as he wants to. If he does not wish to do this, he is free to leave. You are obsessed with me and my dislike of AA. Let it go- a good alanon would. I feel your concern for me is completley false. You have attacked me , deleted my posts and then come back with hugs I do not wish from you. Let us agree that we will never really agree[or like each other]. You think AA and alanon are perfect programs. I do not. Good but not perfect. dax