Interesting AA Meeting last night....
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 491
Interesting AA Meeting last night....
I went to AA second time with the person destiny used to send my way.
I find it quite a delima. These meetings, even this forum, only reminds me of my ex and it hurts, even more in the meeting hearing addicts talk they often times can sound like my ex. Yet, the things I'm learning are very healing and helpful. I want to leave it all behind, yet I desire to recover, strengthen, to truly find a high quality relationship someday. With this very goal, it is worth the pain I have to face each time I try to learn.
In AA, I am learning more about the book, about what addicts go through and the dating pool of AA.
The book for the steps are very deep, so deep, I felt I would need to read one paragraph at a time and stop to really digest what was just shared. Definitly not a book to quickly go through, even though its a short book. Though the book is meant for alcoholics, I found all the teaching benefitial to pretty much any human being for self improvement / awareness / love.
AA's book suprised me, because the steps really do not go on and priase the A's like I felt sometimes leading them to arrogance. But really, the whole book is trying to get the A's to see themselves, and I can tell you, in step 10, they describe the phase of dry drunks without saying this is called "dry drunks". Talking about how A's cannot justify their anger, even if anger looks like it can be justified, an A has no clue what "justified" means and thus should never get angry. It speaks how A's must do this or that to get a more accurate self appraisal of themselves, implying their view of how "awesome" they maybe is quite off....
This suprised me as how direct the book was, I didnt think AA would say anything negative to the A's in order to baby them, but no, the book is really trying to put them back down to Earth.
The people in AA, I saw all kinds of people. One who admits they are still using, many who are old yet still living with parents and no real life of their own, a lot of self pity as they feel their lives are already over because they dont know where all the years went with all the drinking... I feel sorry for them. Others who still look like they are still so angry, they have this permanent angry look on thier faces even as they are trying to laugh or be kind, their eyes of anger makes me nervous even as they are trying to be nice to me. These eyes of anger gives flashbacks of my ex, her eyes of anger even as she was smiling, it was always very hard to see her without such eyes.... Then I noticed many, almost all, but not all, always appear "off" and many I am certain are seriously mentally ill.... But most interesting of all, were those who seem to have found humility and honesty with themselves...
This guy I spoke with, he gladly goes to AA and Al-Anon and has been sober for 6 years and has interesting points of view to share from his experience, he was able to share with me behind the scenes of what addicts really go through without pride or denial covering up anything. He has 10 years of abuse under his belt, though I believe he suffers damage mentally from the drugs of both pot and alcohol, he seems to be recoverying and his system is healing, slowly... but none the less, healing. He tells me first 3 years of starting recovery is some of the hardest times for an addict, their minds are very off and even now, at 6 years, he feels he is only barely getting a taste of feeling "normal".
Regarding AA and Al-Anon. He confirmed my feelings that often times it feels like its AA vs. Al-Anon, he is unique in that he goes to both gladly. He confirmed my feelings that people go into AA all too often and meet more people and end up becoming a huge dating pool within AA. But most interesting of all, he said the book for AA and Al-Anon is pretty much the same, or maybe the same? I forget, but he said the message given in both programs are very different.
To summarize, in AA, the message is "look, you just woke up from being out of reality for a very long time, just trust us and do what we tell you for your best interest". So long as you trust AA, I believe you should listen to what AA has to teach.
In Al-Anon he described it as learning to manage the emotions of dealing with an A. He said the group is different too, those in Al-Anon seem to still have their minds with them, they seem to approach it more intellectually, they arent treated as if their "lost". He said the message is "look, the A's just beginning their recovery, we know what this means, but we're not going to tell you if you should stay or leave, thats up to you, but we will tell you how to protect yourself as soon as possible and refocus on yourself while... well, if you choose to stay, how to deal with the A as best as possible".
Its short of saying, "we're very sorry, this disease most likly stole very much from you, its not fair, but to stop this, you have to be released of this disease, sorry, its a life taker, please leave, we'll take it from here"
Dating, he mentioned people tend to enter these groups and meet a lot of people and it becomes a huge dating pool. Which as many of us on this very forum have felt neglect and found our partners sleeping around or dating around even though they promise they are just trying to recover and cant date for first year.... he confirmed its too common many keep dating people in A's.... I just nodded but I did not expresss how I feel no envy for an A finding another A because compared to an A dealing with a Non-A, that's gotta to be a nuclear bomb experience.
I dont envy their relationship that they will experience with each other, if anything, out of my bitterness, I feel they will get a taste of themselves I'm sorry to say. I also dont believe she will easily or possibly ever find another man whom will offer her more then what I was willing to give her and what I have to offer from looks to financial security to loving her past this diseaese. I believe her mental illness has caused her to lose sight of logic, for the time being, and make one of the biggest mistakes of her life time. On the other hand, I feel it is only benefitial for me not to date an A, and I can only thank her for releasing me of this disease.
It still hurts, but I dont have dreams of her anymore. I have made many new friends, I am popular with very beautiful girls I meet, I get invited to go out every weekend, or invited to go to the gym together at nights, or over for dinner, my life is very full, and blessings of all kinds keep coming my way, I see the beauty this magnificient world contains.
I find it quite a delima. These meetings, even this forum, only reminds me of my ex and it hurts, even more in the meeting hearing addicts talk they often times can sound like my ex. Yet, the things I'm learning are very healing and helpful. I want to leave it all behind, yet I desire to recover, strengthen, to truly find a high quality relationship someday. With this very goal, it is worth the pain I have to face each time I try to learn.
In AA, I am learning more about the book, about what addicts go through and the dating pool of AA.
The book for the steps are very deep, so deep, I felt I would need to read one paragraph at a time and stop to really digest what was just shared. Definitly not a book to quickly go through, even though its a short book. Though the book is meant for alcoholics, I found all the teaching benefitial to pretty much any human being for self improvement / awareness / love.
AA's book suprised me, because the steps really do not go on and priase the A's like I felt sometimes leading them to arrogance. But really, the whole book is trying to get the A's to see themselves, and I can tell you, in step 10, they describe the phase of dry drunks without saying this is called "dry drunks". Talking about how A's cannot justify their anger, even if anger looks like it can be justified, an A has no clue what "justified" means and thus should never get angry. It speaks how A's must do this or that to get a more accurate self appraisal of themselves, implying their view of how "awesome" they maybe is quite off....
This suprised me as how direct the book was, I didnt think AA would say anything negative to the A's in order to baby them, but no, the book is really trying to put them back down to Earth.
The people in AA, I saw all kinds of people. One who admits they are still using, many who are old yet still living with parents and no real life of their own, a lot of self pity as they feel their lives are already over because they dont know where all the years went with all the drinking... I feel sorry for them. Others who still look like they are still so angry, they have this permanent angry look on thier faces even as they are trying to laugh or be kind, their eyes of anger makes me nervous even as they are trying to be nice to me. These eyes of anger gives flashbacks of my ex, her eyes of anger even as she was smiling, it was always very hard to see her without such eyes.... Then I noticed many, almost all, but not all, always appear "off" and many I am certain are seriously mentally ill.... But most interesting of all, were those who seem to have found humility and honesty with themselves...
This guy I spoke with, he gladly goes to AA and Al-Anon and has been sober for 6 years and has interesting points of view to share from his experience, he was able to share with me behind the scenes of what addicts really go through without pride or denial covering up anything. He has 10 years of abuse under his belt, though I believe he suffers damage mentally from the drugs of both pot and alcohol, he seems to be recoverying and his system is healing, slowly... but none the less, healing. He tells me first 3 years of starting recovery is some of the hardest times for an addict, their minds are very off and even now, at 6 years, he feels he is only barely getting a taste of feeling "normal".
Regarding AA and Al-Anon. He confirmed my feelings that often times it feels like its AA vs. Al-Anon, he is unique in that he goes to both gladly. He confirmed my feelings that people go into AA all too often and meet more people and end up becoming a huge dating pool within AA. But most interesting of all, he said the book for AA and Al-Anon is pretty much the same, or maybe the same? I forget, but he said the message given in both programs are very different.
To summarize, in AA, the message is "look, you just woke up from being out of reality for a very long time, just trust us and do what we tell you for your best interest". So long as you trust AA, I believe you should listen to what AA has to teach.
In Al-Anon he described it as learning to manage the emotions of dealing with an A. He said the group is different too, those in Al-Anon seem to still have their minds with them, they seem to approach it more intellectually, they arent treated as if their "lost". He said the message is "look, the A's just beginning their recovery, we know what this means, but we're not going to tell you if you should stay or leave, thats up to you, but we will tell you how to protect yourself as soon as possible and refocus on yourself while... well, if you choose to stay, how to deal with the A as best as possible".
Its short of saying, "we're very sorry, this disease most likly stole very much from you, its not fair, but to stop this, you have to be released of this disease, sorry, its a life taker, please leave, we'll take it from here"
Dating, he mentioned people tend to enter these groups and meet a lot of people and it becomes a huge dating pool. Which as many of us on this very forum have felt neglect and found our partners sleeping around or dating around even though they promise they are just trying to recover and cant date for first year.... he confirmed its too common many keep dating people in A's.... I just nodded but I did not expresss how I feel no envy for an A finding another A because compared to an A dealing with a Non-A, that's gotta to be a nuclear bomb experience.
I dont envy their relationship that they will experience with each other, if anything, out of my bitterness, I feel they will get a taste of themselves I'm sorry to say. I also dont believe she will easily or possibly ever find another man whom will offer her more then what I was willing to give her and what I have to offer from looks to financial security to loving her past this diseaese. I believe her mental illness has caused her to lose sight of logic, for the time being, and make one of the biggest mistakes of her life time. On the other hand, I feel it is only benefitial for me not to date an A, and I can only thank her for releasing me of this disease.
It still hurts, but I dont have dreams of her anymore. I have made many new friends, I am popular with very beautiful girls I meet, I get invited to go out every weekend, or invited to go to the gym together at nights, or over for dinner, my life is very full, and blessings of all kinds keep coming my way, I see the beauty this magnificient world contains.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ireland
Posts: 152
Codemaster - if you're not an A yourself why were you at an AA meeting? Just interested to know.
Here only As go to AA, Unless its what thry call an 'open' meeting, which are rare.
So sorry you're hurting
Sophia
Here only As go to AA, Unless its what thry call an 'open' meeting, which are rare.
So sorry you're hurting
Sophia
Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: northeast
Posts: 43
Hi CodeMaster! Thanks for the info about what goes on at an AA meeting. I too think that my ABF is going to have a hard time finding someone who loved him like I did--over 20 years, and to have found each other again, only to walk away from me because it was easier than getting sober. And the sad thing is that the last memories I have of us are what took place the last month. Him blaming me for everyhting under the sun, I guess he couldn't admit to himself that he let me go because he knew he couldn't get sober.
I actually am meeting someone for coffee tonight--something I never thought I could do!! I feel kinda sad, nervous, but I'm just gonna go with the flow and have some conversation. My life goes on and it is up to me to make ME happy!
I actually am meeting someone for coffee tonight--something I never thought I could do!! I feel kinda sad, nervous, but I'm just gonna go with the flow and have some conversation. My life goes on and it is up to me to make ME happy!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 491
fingerscrossed, A's blame everyone but themselves. Its really good to go to AA meetings because you can see whats going on and not imagine wild things like I've been doing... I think everyone who goes to Al-Anon should find a friend to go to AA too to really understand. Very helpful to me and met a few new friends there who will go to Al-Anon with me, some showing me where some good ones are in the city that may be better for me (since most alanon dont have many guys, they know which one has more that I can relate to)
I'm also happy for you! I really hope your night goes really well! Best wishes always...
I'm also happy for you! I really hope your night goes really well! Best wishes always...
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: England
Posts: 3,410
I went to an Al-anon mini-convention today, with AA participation. I got a huge amount out of the shares from al-anon members, however I was most touched by those of the AAs. The honesty and humilty shown was so far removed from my experience of alcoholics, apart from some on SR whose recovery shines through in their posts. It makes it so much easier to avoid the BS from my ex, who clains that he is in recovery because I can see what REAL recovery looks like, from an AA perspective. You cannot fake the attitude that these guys have. I felt honoured to hear them speak today. For anyone whose partners are in early recovery, I cannot recommend open AA meetings enough. So often I hear people trying to work out whether their partners are in recovery or not. Believe me, when you see it and hear it, you know it.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: northeast
Posts: 43
Minnie--you are a gem! I need to keep reading your posts because you actually can help me understand what happened the past month. I had NO expereince with a's or addicts so everything just left me totally in shock and searching for answers. Reading here has been a life line!! And code master--I will let you know how my coffee date goes. if I have learned anything--keep it slow--and eyes wide open this time!! Hugs to you all!! 
Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,812
Thank you Code..... What insight.
I have gone to many AA meetings, in March that was the standard date with my ex-ABF... I think some of them were even closes.
I have to agree when you see someone that is really growing and in recovery... You feel it. I guess that is how I knew my ex was still playing the game.
I have gone to many AA meetings, in March that was the standard date with my ex-ABF... I think some of them were even closes.
I have to agree when you see someone that is really growing and in recovery... You feel it. I guess that is how I knew my ex was still playing the game.
harleygirl92156
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: IOWA
Posts: 430
Our AA group and Al anon groups meet together once a month. It is very beneficial to both groups. We all enjoy being together and sharing. It gives both sides great insight to what the other is dealing with. I think open meetings are good all the way around, but I also see great necessity for closed meetings as well. It is just nice to be able to meet together once in awhile. It gives me a better understanding of the disease and it helps to hear the stories and problems others are having.......for some reason it is a comfort to know "our" problems are not unique.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Arizona
Posts: 928
I go to one open AA meeting a week and 2 AlAnon meetings a week as part of my line of sponsorship..All the AA meetings I go to are open..I've also read the Big Book over and over again..although not all Alanon's used AA literature..my group does though..
Code - glad to hear you are thinking about Alanon..it's not all women though..we have our share of men (A's and non A's) ..You may want to get copies of both the AA and Alanon 12/12 (12 steps and 12 traditions) and read them..we use them in our group to work the steps..
The steps are the same for both A's and Alanon..
Code - glad to hear you are thinking about Alanon..it's not all women though..we have our share of men (A's and non A's) ..You may want to get copies of both the AA and Alanon 12/12 (12 steps and 12 traditions) and read them..we use them in our group to work the steps..
The steps are the same for both A's and Alanon..
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 3,054
Codemaster,
I read that write up and it reminded me of wild life documtentaries. I should think there are many people who have a problem with alcohol that are much better human beings than me, and many who are worse.
What I know for certain is that they are human beings and not put on the planet for my judgement or observation for it's own sake.
I know you say this was just for your learning and I know what it feels like to need to learn but there's a lot in what you write that smacks of judgement - particularly:
There is no REAL 'us and them' - actually we are all just people living with different things in different ways.
I read that write up and it reminded me of wild life documtentaries. I should think there are many people who have a problem with alcohol that are much better human beings than me, and many who are worse.
What I know for certain is that they are human beings and not put on the planet for my judgement or observation for it's own sake.
I know you say this was just for your learning and I know what it feels like to need to learn but there's a lot in what you write that smacks of judgement - particularly:
I dont envy their relationship that they will experience with each other, if anything, out of my bitterness, I feel they will get a taste of themselves I'm sorry to say.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 346
Re: Us and Them.
My friend just came back from a 2 month re-education in AA and Sobriety as she was feeling like she was slipping. She calls me "Earthy." She says it is every A's desire to be "Earthy" (feet firmly planted on the ground) but A's gravitate to the clouds by nature. It is the process of being Earthy that they call recovery. That is a defining statement -- she says she got it in AA.
I'm not a member of Alanon or AA so I don't know but I'd say that's some type of distinguishing statement.
Quite honestly, Code, I understand your pain. There is nothing wrong with saying it to claim it and, if they get a taste of themselves, then what comes around goes around. It's important to remember that it isn't YOU that didn't do the right things and there is some bigger plan for you in the future.
My friend just came back from a 2 month re-education in AA and Sobriety as she was feeling like she was slipping. She calls me "Earthy." She says it is every A's desire to be "Earthy" (feet firmly planted on the ground) but A's gravitate to the clouds by nature. It is the process of being Earthy that they call recovery. That is a defining statement -- she says she got it in AA.
I'm not a member of Alanon or AA so I don't know but I'd say that's some type of distinguishing statement.
Quite honestly, Code, I understand your pain. There is nothing wrong with saying it to claim it and, if they get a taste of themselves, then what comes around goes around. It's important to remember that it isn't YOU that didn't do the right things and there is some bigger plan for you in the future.
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
Hmm.....
I have been attending AA for 21+ years. Sober for 16+.
So...countless meetings in many locales.
Each AA group is different.
The AA program is in the Big Book..members only hear and see what they perceive to be true.
The 1 year sober to date...not in our Big Book.
90 meetings in 90 days mot in our Big Book
And I never heard about being 'earthy'
I also know about Alanon used to attend. 2 of my children are addicts/alcoholics/recovering..depending on the day.
I found Alanon useful for those daily living with addictions.
Not much for relationships ot current or mot f2f. And..a whole room of people wanting to run right back into a 'meaningful relationship with a soul mate' The perfect duo!
My point? Attend AA and Alanon. Read all the info on addiction.
Then...learn to love yourself and life.
Blessings to all...
So...countless meetings in many locales.
Each AA group is different.
The AA program is in the Big Book..members only hear and see what they perceive to be true.
The 1 year sober to date...not in our Big Book.
90 meetings in 90 days mot in our Big Book
And I never heard about being 'earthy'
I also know about Alanon used to attend. 2 of my children are addicts/alcoholics/recovering..depending on the day.
I found Alanon useful for those daily living with addictions.
Not much for relationships ot current or mot f2f. And..a whole room of people wanting to run right back into a 'meaningful relationship with a soul mate' The perfect duo!
My point? Attend AA and Alanon. Read all the info on addiction.
Then...learn to love yourself and life.
Blessings to all...
Miss Behavin'
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: regina,saskatchewan
Posts: 966
Theres a small town in my province that has AA and Alanon in the same meeting . The first time i went to it this woman was sharing about how she used to plan her husbands funeral...or even ways of doing him in to end her own pain...that was the alanon side. I was so shocked to see both theses groups in one meeting...but after going for a while i really started to think it benenficial. We (A), hear how we affect our families and loved ones...and the non's likewise,.When i go to roundups i hear alanon speakers. It just opens my eyes and ears to what i put my loved ones through.
Honesty, openmindedness and willingness are the keys to my sobriety.I am also an adult child of alcoholics...i've been to a few alanon meetings but decided in early recovery that i had to concentrate on my own recovery first. I do read the courage to change book every day. and hey,,,just judge judgement.
\\//, Wendy
Honesty, openmindedness and willingness are the keys to my sobriety.I am also an adult child of alcoholics...i've been to a few alanon meetings but decided in early recovery that i had to concentrate on my own recovery first. I do read the courage to change book every day. and hey,,,just judge judgement.
\\//, Wendy
Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ireland
Posts: 152
Codemaster - there was no implied criticism of you in my post, just an honest question as you hadn't specified it was an open meeting.
Of course it's 'ok with me'!! I've been to a few open meetings myself and found them very helpful in trying to understand my AH who's 13 years sober.
I just thought it might be different where you live and wondered how A's could share with non-As present.
It's a cunning, baffling disease and as I can only speak for myself, I need all the help I can get.
So no hard feelings, eh? We're all in the same boat.
Wishing you contentment in your future
Sophia
Of course it's 'ok with me'!! I've been to a few open meetings myself and found them very helpful in trying to understand my AH who's 13 years sober.
I just thought it might be different where you live and wondered how A's could share with non-As present.
It's a cunning, baffling disease and as I can only speak for myself, I need all the help I can get.
So no hard feelings, eh? We're all in the same boat.
Wishing you contentment in your future
Sophia
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 491
There are definitly alcoholics who can be even better people then non-alcoholics, I do not disagree with that. I do not deny my judgement is wrong, Im sorry for this as I am no person to judge anyone on this Earth PERIOD, its really just my weakness talking.
Yes, there are definitly a difference between those who have recovered, or are well on their way to recoverying and those who are still drunk without drinking... it helps me see my ex has not really recovered, has a while to go, and im not insane for thinking that. Its also so comforting to see many others felt this feeling as myself! Cause sometimes I think I must be the only crazy one thinking these things in this world! hahaa
Sophia57, No harsh feelings, thanks for clearing it up as I didnt know why you were asking such a question for. Open meetings are common here apparently.
Yes, there are definitly a difference between those who have recovered, or are well on their way to recoverying and those who are still drunk without drinking... it helps me see my ex has not really recovered, has a while to go, and im not insane for thinking that. Its also so comforting to see many others felt this feeling as myself! Cause sometimes I think I must be the only crazy one thinking these things in this world! hahaa
Sophia57, No harsh feelings, thanks for clearing it up as I didnt know why you were asking such a question for. Open meetings are common here apparently.
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