Some of you may remember me....
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: grand junction, co
Posts: 12
Some of you may remember me....
I posted months ago when I was about to meet a recovering A I got involved with over the internet. We emailed for a month then spoke on the phone for about a month and a half, then his sponsor decided he was not ready to "meet" me IRL but he changed his mind and we met anyway back in February. He has been sober for a year and two months and lives about 2,000 miles away. We got together through an online dating site because he listed on his profile his plans to move in the same city I was moving to. I moved and he slowly got more confused about his career and whether he should stay where he's at. I could handle the confusion over the career but what I couldn't handle was his not doing anything at all to make a move to be near me (also where he considered being prior to meeting me) OR staying where he was at. The limbo added stress (for me the most) to the relationship and was the source of any conflicts we had over the months. He said he'd make more of an effort to come visit me more often and even that was like pulling teeth because he once again became stagnant, not wanting to book the flight until the last minute, as if he was waiting on something that may or may not happen. If faced with conflict with me in any way his reaction was try to talk it out for a minute or so and if that didn't work he wanted out of the conversation completely. Eventually our conversations became all about him and about his recovery. With out sharing a day to day life I felt it was difficult to talk about much else and he seemed more interested in discussing his conflicts with himself and his recovery and could talk about it forever.
Last week we had a disagreement and I said I wanted to end it because I only wanted two things...for him to make some sort of effort to find a job closer to me and/or at least see me more than once every 6 weeks. He said he didn't want to make any rash decisions and that we needed time apart to think. So it went like this for about 5 days and I couldn't stand it anymore and called to just say, "if it's not going to work out can we at least salvage a friendship." assuming he would say how much he missed me and would make more of an effort....he didn't. He felt the same about staying friends and started talking about his life as if nothing happened. It was odd...it felt cold. I assumed he would be more emotional considering he claims he loved me. It was as if he just flipped a switch off. He said he wasn't ready for a relationship right now and wasn't ready to even think about moving anywhere until he at least got through more of the 12 steps (he's on 4 and 5 now) and that he probably is very thin skinned right now, very sensetive to a lot stuff and that he didn't want to be that way when faced with conflict and that he felt he wasn't always treating me the way he should. He said he felt it was for the best, that he needed to focus on his recovery and that he wasn't planning on seeing anyone and that he felt, just like he did in past relationships that by staying friends it leaves the door open....I was crying and he knew it but I heard no tenderness or emotion in his voice. So although I was the one to initially end it, I felt he wouldn't want to. I wrote him a letter and said I thought I could be friends but after hearing how he could do all this with no emotion it just made it impossible for me right now. I said I felt like he now "gets better" and I "get hurt"...what a raw deal. I can't help but feel used somehow...as if the feelings he claims he had for me weren't real. I mean, how can you suddenly go from loving someone to just being their friend. He said that the reason he can be so aloof about it was from years of experience in relationships. He used to get all torn up about them but doesn't anymore. I miss him and feel like I've lost my best friend. I feel awful and what's worse is I wrote him to tell him how angry I was, how used I felt and never got a response. He did write me a letter prior to our talk about wanting to stay friends, but I haven't gotten it yet. Did I mention I recently divorced? God, what a fool I am! Sorry to ramble I just have no one who understands and I obviously didn't know what I was getting into. Thanks for reading this novel of mine.
Last week we had a disagreement and I said I wanted to end it because I only wanted two things...for him to make some sort of effort to find a job closer to me and/or at least see me more than once every 6 weeks. He said he didn't want to make any rash decisions and that we needed time apart to think. So it went like this for about 5 days and I couldn't stand it anymore and called to just say, "if it's not going to work out can we at least salvage a friendship." assuming he would say how much he missed me and would make more of an effort....he didn't. He felt the same about staying friends and started talking about his life as if nothing happened. It was odd...it felt cold. I assumed he would be more emotional considering he claims he loved me. It was as if he just flipped a switch off. He said he wasn't ready for a relationship right now and wasn't ready to even think about moving anywhere until he at least got through more of the 12 steps (he's on 4 and 5 now) and that he probably is very thin skinned right now, very sensetive to a lot stuff and that he didn't want to be that way when faced with conflict and that he felt he wasn't always treating me the way he should. He said he felt it was for the best, that he needed to focus on his recovery and that he wasn't planning on seeing anyone and that he felt, just like he did in past relationships that by staying friends it leaves the door open....I was crying and he knew it but I heard no tenderness or emotion in his voice. So although I was the one to initially end it, I felt he wouldn't want to. I wrote him a letter and said I thought I could be friends but after hearing how he could do all this with no emotion it just made it impossible for me right now. I said I felt like he now "gets better" and I "get hurt"...what a raw deal. I can't help but feel used somehow...as if the feelings he claims he had for me weren't real. I mean, how can you suddenly go from loving someone to just being their friend. He said that the reason he can be so aloof about it was from years of experience in relationships. He used to get all torn up about them but doesn't anymore. I miss him and feel like I've lost my best friend. I feel awful and what's worse is I wrote him to tell him how angry I was, how used I felt and never got a response. He did write me a letter prior to our talk about wanting to stay friends, but I haven't gotten it yet. Did I mention I recently divorced? God, what a fool I am! Sorry to ramble I just have no one who understands and I obviously didn't know what I was getting into. Thanks for reading this novel of mine.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: The Field of Dreams
Posts: 7,249
Just from what i gathered in your post it sounds like he isnt ready for a relationship and is focusing on his recovery and there is nothing wrong with that.And you said you wanted to end it then you call 5 days later hoping he missed you? In my opinion thats game playing.You mentioned you were recently divorced.Maybe your not ready either.The on-line dating thing is ok.I know how hard it can be to meet someone.Problem is for me,I never did really meet anyone when I was looking.Its when you stop looking you meet someone.Just my humble opinion. 
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: grand junction, co
Posts: 12
Thanks for your response Time, however I was in no way playing games with him at all. I ended it saying that I was ending it IF he was not ready to give me "this and that" right now in hopes that he would be ready and hoping 5 days later that he would miss talking to me. People end things all the time and it's always nice to know the other party cared enough to miss you and wants things to change for the better so they don't have to end. How that can be percieved as playing games I have no clue. And I completely believe he's not ready but it doesn't make it hurt any less and the lack of emotion is what hurt the most.
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Lancaster
Posts: 120
luvbug,
Please read what you just wrote. I have to agree with Time, it does seem like you were playing a game with him - even though you may not have have realized you were doing it. You gave him an ultimatium and you were not prepared for the outcome. You only planned for the outcome you hoped for. I know relationships are difficult and you are probably going through a lot but keep your chin up and move on. If its meant to be it will be.
Please read what you just wrote. I have to agree with Time, it does seem like you were playing a game with him - even though you may not have have realized you were doing it. You gave him an ultimatium and you were not prepared for the outcome. You only planned for the outcome you hoped for. I know relationships are difficult and you are probably going through a lot but keep your chin up and move on. If its meant to be it will be.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: grand junction, co
Posts: 12
Actually I didn't actually say the words "IF things don't change" I initially said that I wanted to end it and take a break then he said that he felt we shouldn't make rash decisions and I said I'm willing to support him in ever way but I need a few things from him if our relationship is to continue, that was it. I missed him and was hoping he could give me what I needed too and it just didn't turn out that way. I guess I posted this on this board because I expected to some understanding if this is all common in a relationship with an alcoholic but maybe I just posted this on the wrong board.
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 491
You are experiencing a typical dry drunk symdrome of a recoverying alcoholics insanely blind selfishness. Its time to protect yourself, there isnt a thing in the world you can do to help him.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Middle of Nowhere
Posts: 4
I know that people not in AA do not understand that it is a selfish program. The A has to do what ever it is that will keep them sober. And sometimes if a relationship is causeing them to much stress than like a member of alanon letting their partner go and working only on making themselves better an A needs to let people in their lives go that are making life difficult. It does not mean that they don't care for this person it means that they can not handle the problems and stress this person is bringing in to their lives and the problems of early sobeirty at the same time. There will come a time in their lives when they are ready to have a relationship and will be able to handle all the problems that go with it. An A needs to find out who they are frist before they can be part of a couple.
I know that I have to accept my husband for who and what he is and there are things about him that irk me but they come with the package. He also has to accept me for who and what I am and I'm sure there are things about me that he would like to change too. But, the good out weights the bad so after 28 years we are still together. I guess what I am trying to say is the best thing anyone can do in a relationship is to give up trying to contol the other person and let times work or not work on their own. My husband could walk away today and it would break my heart. But, I could let him go and be happy in the knowledge that he is happy.
I know that I have to accept my husband for who and what he is and there are things about him that irk me but they come with the package. He also has to accept me for who and what I am and I'm sure there are things about me that he would like to change too. But, the good out weights the bad so after 28 years we are still together. I guess what I am trying to say is the best thing anyone can do in a relationship is to give up trying to contol the other person and let times work or not work on their own. My husband could walk away today and it would break my heart. But, I could let him go and be happy in the knowledge that he is happy.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 491
Problem is they get so trained that selfishness is ok, that while your being patient and supporting and going to ANON and etc, their selfishness starts blinding them and all hell goes for anyone around the recoverying A.
Seek many stories online and in person and its all the same sad story.
Start protecting yourself. This selfishness in the name of recovery doesnt fly with me.
Seek many stories online and in person and its all the same sad story.
Start protecting yourself. This selfishness in the name of recovery doesnt fly with me.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,812
Im soooo sorry you are going through all this. I have recently gone through the same thing.... YES IT HURTS and all the one line Al-non sayings are not going to help you right now... I know, and I agree with CodeMaster that there should be a balance between what is taught them as far as focus... selfishness/using is not acceptable behavior in any situation.
BUT... that is all he is going to be. Im sorry to be blunt, but that is all there is to it. They will use you for what they need as long as you do not judge, ask for, need, or make unhappy... the second you do either they or their sponsors will boot the relationship right out the door in the name of recovery. AA can work, and trust me I have done alot of research, talked to people that have been sober along time and used this program to start... etc. You know what they told me? RUN, if your not married, dont have kids, and dont have to be in this situation RUN... yep that is what they told me. No contact, relationship at all (cant be friends) for at least a year from the time they are working the program/life.... not just being a dry drunk.
When I say working the program I dont mean that they go to AA meetings 7 days a week, and put a little effort in the steps... I mean they are working the steps/probably therphy (for what is causing the issue) and seeking (actively) to change themselves... and I dont mean just leanrning to give by making coffee at a meeting... I mean real change, Also there is much to be said about that relationship with that higher power...
I dont know what to say other then, I think they are right..... Its his life, his recovery let him work it how he wants... but if you want a REAL relationship with someone, a recovering A in the first steps is not going to give you ANYTHING
Sorry to be blunt, take care of you and put this out of your life.... Yea I know easier said then done.... Im trying to do it as well and Im not great at it... Acceptance is the hardest part, letting go of the hope of what he could be and realizing what he is... REALLY HURTS. Dont date, just work on you, selfhelp books are good for me, "The amazing thing about Grace" helps with the anger... and for me Church saved my life.
BUT... that is all he is going to be. Im sorry to be blunt, but that is all there is to it. They will use you for what they need as long as you do not judge, ask for, need, or make unhappy... the second you do either they or their sponsors will boot the relationship right out the door in the name of recovery. AA can work, and trust me I have done alot of research, talked to people that have been sober along time and used this program to start... etc. You know what they told me? RUN, if your not married, dont have kids, and dont have to be in this situation RUN... yep that is what they told me. No contact, relationship at all (cant be friends) for at least a year from the time they are working the program/life.... not just being a dry drunk.
When I say working the program I dont mean that they go to AA meetings 7 days a week, and put a little effort in the steps... I mean they are working the steps/probably therphy (for what is causing the issue) and seeking (actively) to change themselves... and I dont mean just leanrning to give by making coffee at a meeting... I mean real change, Also there is much to be said about that relationship with that higher power...
I dont know what to say other then, I think they are right..... Its his life, his recovery let him work it how he wants... but if you want a REAL relationship with someone, a recovering A in the first steps is not going to give you ANYTHING
Sorry to be blunt, take care of you and put this out of your life.... Yea I know easier said then done.... Im trying to do it as well and Im not great at it... Acceptance is the hardest part, letting go of the hope of what he could be and realizing what he is... REALLY HURTS. Dont date, just work on you, selfhelp books are good for me, "The amazing thing about Grace" helps with the anger... and for me Church saved my life.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: grand junction, co
Posts: 12
I cannot thank you all enough for your advice and words of wisdom. That is what I was looking for when I originally posted...thank you so much!
I have spoken to him since posting, and you were right Cynay it was his sponsor who told him that he needed to cut off the relationship until he finished his steps 4 and 5 at the least. I find it so ironic that AA teaches people to NOT be selfish but at the same time be selfish. He needs another job and will likely seek employment where he is or elsewhere. When we spoke I found myself trying to convince him that we could work it all out, to come back to me...because of this empty hole I felt each night when I normally expected his call and as I was trying to convince him I found myself wondering "why" in hell I was doing this to myself?? Basically his response to my clinginess was that he needed to time and wanted to "leave the door open" but didn't want to ask me to wait for him either because that wasn't fair to me. Then I went into a different forum on this board and found an inspiring mediation by Anthony De Mello and have since bought his books...I love them and they are a great source of comfort for me. I wrote my A ex an email and shared this writing my De Mello and added his into what I found. Here is the last part of that email....
Now try saying this to this person, "I leave you free to be yourself, to think your thoughts, to indulge your taste, follow your inclinations, behave in any way that you decide is to your liking." The moment you say that you will observe one of two things: Either your heart will resist those words and you will be exposed for the clinger and exploiter that you are. Or your heart will pronounce the words sincerely and in that very instant all control, manipulation, exploitation, possessiveness, jealousy will drop.
And you will notice something else: The person ceases to be special and important to you. And he/she becomes important the way a sunset or a symphony is lovely in itself, the way a tree is special in itself and not for the fruit or the shade that it can offer you. Your beloved will then belong not to you but to everyone else or to no one like the sunrise and the tree. Test it by saying those words again: "I leave you free to be yourself...." In saying those words you have set yourself free. You are now ready to love. For when you cling, what you offer the other is not love but a chain by which both you and your beloved are bound. Love can only exist in freedom. The true lover seeks the good of his beloved which requires especially the liberation of the beloved from the lover.
"Ex A's Name"-I give you freedom and time to be yourself: to think your thoughts, indulge your tastes, follow your inclinations, behave in ways that you decide are to your liking.
I sent the email and felt a huge weight lifted off of me. It still hurts, but when we spoke after I sent the email he kept saying "I just need time, I can't make any decisions" and I hadn't even made any demands of him. I told him, "Take all the time in the world you need but in the the meantime, I will move on with my life and I let you go to do the same."
I have spoken to him since posting, and you were right Cynay it was his sponsor who told him that he needed to cut off the relationship until he finished his steps 4 and 5 at the least. I find it so ironic that AA teaches people to NOT be selfish but at the same time be selfish. He needs another job and will likely seek employment where he is or elsewhere. When we spoke I found myself trying to convince him that we could work it all out, to come back to me...because of this empty hole I felt each night when I normally expected his call and as I was trying to convince him I found myself wondering "why" in hell I was doing this to myself?? Basically his response to my clinginess was that he needed to time and wanted to "leave the door open" but didn't want to ask me to wait for him either because that wasn't fair to me. Then I went into a different forum on this board and found an inspiring mediation by Anthony De Mello and have since bought his books...I love them and they are a great source of comfort for me. I wrote my A ex an email and shared this writing my De Mello and added his into what I found. Here is the last part of that email....
Now try saying this to this person, "I leave you free to be yourself, to think your thoughts, to indulge your taste, follow your inclinations, behave in any way that you decide is to your liking." The moment you say that you will observe one of two things: Either your heart will resist those words and you will be exposed for the clinger and exploiter that you are. Or your heart will pronounce the words sincerely and in that very instant all control, manipulation, exploitation, possessiveness, jealousy will drop.
And you will notice something else: The person ceases to be special and important to you. And he/she becomes important the way a sunset or a symphony is lovely in itself, the way a tree is special in itself and not for the fruit or the shade that it can offer you. Your beloved will then belong not to you but to everyone else or to no one like the sunrise and the tree. Test it by saying those words again: "I leave you free to be yourself...." In saying those words you have set yourself free. You are now ready to love. For when you cling, what you offer the other is not love but a chain by which both you and your beloved are bound. Love can only exist in freedom. The true lover seeks the good of his beloved which requires especially the liberation of the beloved from the lover.
"Ex A's Name"-I give you freedom and time to be yourself: to think your thoughts, indulge your tastes, follow your inclinations, behave in ways that you decide are to your liking.
I sent the email and felt a huge weight lifted off of me. It still hurts, but when we spoke after I sent the email he kept saying "I just need time, I can't make any decisions" and I hadn't even made any demands of him. I told him, "Take all the time in the world you need but in the the meantime, I will move on with my life and I let you go to do the same."
Caring for the 3 little bears
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Oz
Posts: 509
Not saying this to hurt you whatsoever. I don't doubt that he had deep feelings for you. However, active A's have numbed their feelings for SOOOO long when they become sober it can take a long time for them to actually learn about feelings and feel them again. Maybe he was saying all the things you wanted to hear, but at this point, he is incapable of really FEELING ANYTHING. My AH has been sober off and on over the years. His last active addiction has lasted over 3 years. And this has been an area where he has basically had to learn HOW TO FEEL again. This is something they work on in treatment and recovery. I hope I haven't hurt your feelings, but maybe if you step back, give him some time in his recovery... a year really isn't that long especially if he has been active for a while and see what happens. It sounds like you have done the absolute right thing for yourself, by "breaking it off." I know it must hurt terribly, but if it is true love, it will come back around. In the meantime, I hope you can seek and find happiness for yourself by doing the things you love and enjoy. I know many of us want to find a mate and experience bliss the rest of our lives, but obviously this is not the right time.
Take care and peace to you.
Take care and peace to you.
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