DJBucs2005

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ad.php?t=35992

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ad.php?t=53714

You can read those two threads if you want to find out about my situation in depth. But my dad is an alcoholic. He is a decent person overall. We all have good parts and bad parts of our personality, as Cupowater said here I want to confront him about his alcoholism and let him know that if he wants to quit, then we are there for him. I'm somewhat on the same page with my mom, but haven't really discussed it with my brother. Should I discuss it with him? So we're all on the same page. I know my brother and I both dislike when he drinks and acts like a fool and is annoying, especially at family get togethers.

I guess a question I really want to hit here is this: Should I say something along the lines of "I like you a lot better when you're not drinking."? I want to avoid rescuing him.

While the optimist part of me thinks I can change him, being more realistic, I'm hoping to at LEAST get my foot in the door if I do speak up, and hope he doesn't slam the door on my foot, not letting it in.

ANY OTHER ADVICE YOU THINK WILL BE HELPFUL WILL BE APPRECIATED

Much thanks,
DJ

Eeyore49

In my experience the best approach is to work on yourself. Work your own program and it creates change within the whole family. Sometimes it motivates the other members of the family to change too. You can't count on it, but it did happen for me. It took a long time though. Slowly, one member at a time got into recovery. In the meantime I was able to improve myself and my life. So it's worth it whether or not it motivates others to change.

I don't have any experience in interventions working, so I can't help there. Maybe others can share about theirs.

Take care,
Beth

equus

Someone I hold in enormous respect once said to me that when your heart and mouth speak in the same language, not two languages like a politician, your words become strong. He reckoned the greatest thing to have in life were strong words.

If I have something hard I want to say I first work on my own heart (like Beth above first working on me), then I look carefully to make sure I can say exactly the same as my heart and sometimes that takes a lot of soul searching.

I don't think it's ever been a perfect process but true enough the more I care that my words and heart match the stronger they seem to be. However none of that means I can change how anyone else thinks - it just means I can be careful to offer them what's nearer to my own truth, it's up to them whether that matters enough.

Funnily enough when I look at amazing people through history - it's that same element I can see. It's the hardest thing I've ever tried to succeed with, just to mean what I say and I'm nowhere near good enough at it yet.

Beautiful

If you are just beginning, I will say that I hate the phrase, "work on yourself." I realize that it is what happens but when a person seeks out help he/she is generally so beaten down by the alcoholic that "work on yourself" doesn't make any sense.

So, I'll tell you a little story which illustrates what "work on yourself" looks like:

My AH for YEARS never stood up for himself. Baby of the family, goofball, A. When he and I married, his older brother and wife continued to maintain a friendship with his Ex. Last summer, we went to brother's (BIL) son's wedding where BIL said that it was time for a family picture and Ex was included. H was insensed (as was I.) I finally said to H, "I would say to BIL that we have no problems being in the family picture, but Ex is not a member of the family. Beautiful is my wife and, if Ex is included in the family picture, then we will have to respectfully decline to be in the picture." BIL was dumbfounded. He had never been faced with this before. Ultimately, BIL decided to have a "family" picture and a "friends" picture. H won just because he stood up for himself. No frills, no showdown, just set a limit for himself and his WIFE and let the chips fall where they may.

That's "working on yourself." Helpful?

JT

You can say whatever you want...in fact that sounds like a fine thing to say. The problem begins when we expect them to change because of something we say. It rarely works that way. So we repeat ourselves, again expecting the result we are after. That's the road to avoid. It leads to frustration and resentment...emotions that do nothing but hurt us...not them...us.

JT

ahcb

DJ,

It sounds like everyone agrees there is a problem but no one has said anything to your dad. Am I right? I am also curious as to what your dads state of mind is. Is he aware that he has a problem, or is he aware that the drinking is causing concern for the family.

If so I dont think he would be surprised at what you say and it may actually make some impact. It will not, however, make him rush out to treatment or put down the bottle forever. Only he can do that. If you want to say something to at least (in your own mind) make it clear to him that it is upsetting to you.Good. Go Ahead. If you want to say something thinking he will stop-you are going to end up hurt...

DJBucs2005

Pretty good advice so far.

NOTE: My dad has not drank the PAST TWO SATURDAYS (making it two weeks without alcohol). I'd reallly appreciate if you read those two threads. The 2nd one especially. I think my dad may have been effected by myself and my mom crying in church during a priest's sermon on the gospel reading involving Lazarus.

How exactly am I supposed to work on myself? The example you gave was the alcoholic working on himself. Not the family member working on theirself.

The last two pieces of advice before this post are making my expectations a bit more "realistic". I have to be prepared that what I say or my family may not have an immediate impact. But if it does spark something, I want to work with it, and not just let it die out and see if it can go somewhere.

Also, you're right. I have been the one to step up and talk about it with my mom. Dating back to last year about this time give or take a month; and again in the summer. And then once again on Sunday, March 13th. I've yet with my dad though (talk with him about it). That is what I mentioned to my mom again today..about talking to my dad about it. And that's why I asked for some advice. I mentioned in my previous posts that I pasted that I believe he wants to change but I'm not sure about every single reason as to why he hasn't. I think he's aware that it causes problems but not fully aware of every single one.

Thanks for the help, keep the advice coming.

Beautiful

This is how you work on yourself:

Viewed externally: My dad's drinking gets out of hand and he's rude to me -- he needs to stop.

Viewed internally: I tolerate my dad's drinking/disrespect because______________________


It is not unreasonable to say to him that, because he sets a poor example for my children when he drinks, that we won't be able to attend Sunday dinner. It is also not unreasonable to excuse yourself from a function where he has adopted the addict's attitude via drinking. Working on yourself is really learning to set limits for what you will and won't accept from another person or situation and be at peace with your decision regardless if that person is an addict or not. That is why you can say the same things over and over with little to no result. Actions speak louder than words but sometimes the guilt over taking the hard line is worse than accepting the behavior. In my husband's case (removing the alcoholic label), he set a limit for his family and was peaceful with whatever outcome happened.

Addicts *do* know what they are doing so don't be fooled. They do it because they can. They create a lifestyle and support system (The Enabler) that supports their behavior. The only thing you can do is learn to live your life and set your own limits without regard for the behavior of the addict. In this way, you are not "addicted" (loosely stated) to "controlling" the behavior of, in this case, the addict. The addict relies on the "tolerance" of his surroundings and will go to great lengths to protect it. It is a huge part of the cycle. When you (you in this case, we're all here for a reason) start setting limits for yourself in social encounters with him, you will be leading by example.

Actually, I thought my illustration was really quite good. I hope that you re-read it in a few months in the context that it was written.

Good luck.

avaelon

One of the things I think is so important to remember, is that expectations run high that when an addicted person is confronted (or told, or whatever phraseology you want to use), they see what they've been doing, they'll immediately feel terrible, and they'll quit. Does it happen that way? Well, sometimes...but most often, not. As hard as it is to accept, his drinking--and his recovery--are up to him. And remember, even when people stop drinking/using, they are still addictive people. That doesn't just go away either. And the family has their own co-dependant lifestyle to contend with, too... The single most important thing is not to focus on your dad's drinking or recovery, or your family's, but on your own! Al-Anon or Ala-Teen is really great. I'm an adult whose mother is a sober alcoholic; she's in her 80's now & I moved in to take care of her 5yrs ago when she was having serious health problems. She doesn't drink anymore because I do all the shopping & caregiving, so she doesn't have access...She was a daily drinker certainly all of my life, & I suspect going back into her teens or early adulthood. So I know all about growing up in an alcoholic home, and the damage it has caused to all of us in the family. She may not drink anymore, but she is still very much an alcoholic. She is never going to admit there were ever any problems, she has never, & will never, take responsability for any of her actions, & at this stage in her life she's never going to change. So I have to change my way of dealing with her & her attitudes. I've only recently started going to meetings & man, do I wish I would have known--I would have gone years & years ago! So whether your dad ever quits or gets a program or not, you focus on you, and it's amazing the changes that will take place...You can always let your dad know in a non-judgemental way that you are attending meetings. One of the big points is to learn to detatch with love--& al-anon will teach you that. Good luck, hang in there!!

DJBucs2005

Well, I have had a little talk about my brother with the issue. He wasn't super talkative about, which I wasn't expecting him to blab away, but at least I talked to him about it and have buiilt some confidence.

Any uplifting advice or stories out there???? I know there has to be SOME. So far, it's just been "Just worry about yourself". That's one negative I found about Al-Anon. I know you can't force anything...but c'mon..the person is my own blood!! I can't just let the man live like this. I have to at least make an attempt to help him out. I have not given up on him...

equus

I did some serious thinking before getting married - very serious. I knew I was marrying an alcoholic, I knew there were other issues too, I knew I loved him and had never found another human being that could fit the place of my husband.

That sentiment, 'not giving up' can be seen two ways depending on what you're trying to do. In my case I had to decide whether I could make the vows I would make getting married and KEEP them, in that sense not giving up.

BUT I wasn't going to vow to get him sober, make him stop drinking, get him healthy, or even keep him alive - all of these things I've given up already believing I can do.

My vows were about my relationship to him, knowing our whole history I was confident (and still am) that these were something I could keep. I don't think anyone here has suggested you give up on the relationship with your Dad - just that you understand that relationship might be with someone who keeps drinking.

Saying to look after yourself makes sense in (I think) any relationship. If more people actually did that there'd probably be half the number of arguments we have we each other.

I differ slightly from others that post here but not entirely. I think we do influence each other in our interactions - there is communication with alcoholics discussed all over this board from boundary setting to not being pulled into disputes. To set a boundary you need to communicate and if you communicate well from the foundation of a healthy mind and a good relationship I think that communication has more chance of success.

Look at the two extremes if you fail to communicate something like a boundary the chances of any kind of good outcome are tiny. If you communicate it well then both parties are left with clear choices and neither will feel powerless. In that sense I think we are able to do something and that something can influence (but not control) someone elses behaviour.

I know I can't control my husband's drinking but I don't feel powerless to have a good relationship (not all powerful either - just not powerless). In it's turn I think that can potentially influence (but not control) the drinking. (If anyone is interested I can supply a reference to a huge study that supports this).

You have a whole family - working on yourself will make you a healthier stronger family member. As long as you want a relationship with them it's important that you try to keep the relationship healthy. Other than that your father not you will ultimately be the one to decide whether he stops drinking.

My parents don't drink but I've ended up setting some extremely firm boundaries because of my mother's behaviour and my need to not be tied in knots by it. They start arguing, I leave - I won't tolerate it anymore. I have given up on the relationship with my Mother but I don't think that's what anyone here is suggesting you do with your father - you've been clear it's an important relationship to you.

JT

The alcoholic that caused me to go into recovery is my son. Now I get the "I can't just let him live like this". But in acting on that attitude I took it upon myself to try to control him. That control is an illusion...we cannot control what another person does. We can talk all day and night, we can tell them how we feel about what they are doing to themselves and to others, we can pour liquor down the drain, steal their car keys and any number of other tactics. But in the end, when all is said and done...they are going to do what they want.

I never gave up on my son and I never will. But I was forced, through my own miserable behavior with no results, to face the fact that I had no control. The whole time I was deluding myself that I could change another person, my own behavior escalated to just shy of criminal.

What I gave up was that illusion of control and I stuggle on a daily basis to remember what I can control and what I cannot. The thing I can control is me.

I don't see that as only worrying about myself. I see that as allowing another person the dignity of making their own choices. That way their mistakes are all their own...and so are their victories.

JT

Magichappens

How do we "work on ourself"? That is a good question. The effects of alcoholism on the family tend to cause pain, anger, frustration, and fear. We tell ourself, "If they would only quit drinking, everything would be ok." And to some extent, things do get better when that happens. But that isn't always going to happen, and we are left with resentment and sadness. Learning to deal with those feelings, whether the alcoholic recovers or not, is important for us to live our lives without being consumed by the same disease that is consuming our loved one.

Finding the support of others who have been through this and found healing, and solutions for their own pain, has been the basis for my own recovery. It took a long time for the alcoholic in my life to begin his recovery. I couldn't continue to stew in my own misery waiting for that day. I needed relief.

There are many forms of help for people in our situation. Al-Anon Family Groups is one. Counselling is another. This forum is a great tool to connect to people in and out of family recovery. Keep coming back. You don't have to go through this alone. Hugs, Magic